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PH shift or waterlogged

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    f-e i’ve been running this cut a couple times and jt can be taken at 50 days I doubt the brown hairs are a sign of anything here, its a Black Domina cross.

    i’m still unsure what I’m seeing, to me it looks like both Ca and P are locked out. There was no visible progression of symptoms over a longer period of time, it came to this in two days and it looks like it’s progressing further up the plants. The pictures are from the most affected, the others have this going too but not as bad. Pic 1 and 2 are the start and then the next day it looks like Pic 3


      Just to add - if the PPMs of the runoff are really low, you should just feed them more high PK nutrients or similar, which will counterbalance the calcium. Also, the soil looks a little dry.

      Also, they're standing on wooden slats. You should never use wood in a grow tent. Even bamboo stakes are asking for trouble. Wood and any cellulose (wallpaper, carpets) are nutrients for fungi and molds.


        Ich bin mir immer noch nicht sicher, was ich sehe, für mich sieht es so aus, als wären sowohl Ca als auch P ausgesperrt.
        look at the leaf position, pay attention to the spread of the fingers.

        if it were a P exclusion, the fingers to the left and right of the middle fingers would approach each other ... it would not be evenly spread.

        The reason why the plant becomes lighter from bottom to top is due to the lack of calcium, because this promotes the nutrient absorption of all elements. What is poorly absorbed, the plant shifts from the bottom to the top, as far as this is possible and the nutrients are mobile.

        It is no wonder that the plant shows a rapid phosphorus and nitrogen deficiency, it is the mobile nutrients.

        The most important thing is to brighten the youngest shoots, here you will see that calcium is missing as an immobile nutrient. And not because it is excluded, but because there is hardly any calcium in rainwater and your well water is therefore greatly diluted. You can also measure this by the EC value of your water if what your plants say is not enough for you.

        on the other hand, if there was too much calcium in the game, it would mean a chaotic uptake of nutrients ... believe me, you would tell your plant that it is not feeling well.

        rainwater is an extremely weak solvent due to its crystal lattice.

        let's just assume that the rain today, when it is hardly charged with sulfur and falls acidic to the earth, would have such a strong reaction to the mineral limestone that the calcium content in your well would increase by leaps and bounds ... will there still be limestone at all today?
        It's not just been raining since last year ... it has been raining for a few billion years.

        an increase in calcium in the water due to rain would have the consequence that the limestone would dissolve ... which it does ... but not at the speed that you could measure this ... crockery impossible. they would have a hole in their floor.

        Calcium is always used to increase the ph value when it is in the bottomless low range.
        it serves to stabilize the pH value in the neutral range. However, you will not achieve a pH increase by enriching calcium above 7 and upwards.

        Precisely for this reason, calcium is used for stabilization ... but other products are offered to increase the ph value.

        you are now in a stupid situation ... some say too much calcium ... their plants and I say too little.

        In case of doubt, you can treat 50% of the plants as the others say ... and with the other 50% you can do it as your plants say.

        the current calcium deficiency gives your plant the chance to do chemistry. it can only absorb clzium as CA2 + ione ... which is mainly found in water ... most of the calcium that is in your medium has a different form. Your plant must first learn to convert it. then you will benefit from it, even if your leaf dress is a bit lighter.

        the longer your water is in the bottom of the well, the more the water will be watered down by the rain ... your water will have the usual calcium content and its pH will be stable again.


          I checked logs from previous years and developed another theory. i buffer my soil mix to 6.5 pH everytime and I have continously watched it rise to 6.9 and on one ocassion to 7.1, samples taken from near rootballs from different pots, measured mid-flower and sometimes measured after harvest.

          My guess is that my water source has high alkalinity which means that over time I’m depositing all those carbonates and bicarbonates in my organic 20L and in turn raising the medium pH. Kinda makes sense to me since the pots are never watered to runoff and the symptoms were often observed around week 5. Also it’s hard to pH my water source, needs a lot of citric acid and the low pH from it only lasts a couple of hours tops before it climbs back up to 7.3-7.4.

          An article from MSU explaining this:


            Also my water source tested at 180ppm which is considered high in akalinity, the ideal range being 100ppm


              And this

              Click image for larger version

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ID:	17882232 This graph shows influence of the water alkalinity on the pH of vinca plugs after 49 days. Notice the higher the water alkalinity, the higher the pH of the growing medium rose after 49 days. Data taken from: D. Bailey & P. V. Nelson, Substrate pH and Water Quality. 1996 Ohio Short Course
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                how are your plants?

                Do you have current pictures ... especially of the youngest shoots.

                how would you describe the development of the last few days?
                Is it progressing or has it come to a standstill ... or is there an improvement in sight?


                  They ate through the most affected leaves and I picked the dead ones off but I haven’t spotted it progressing further, should finish alright. I watered twice with pHed water to 6.4 since the symptoms appeared. The important thing is keeping these green:

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                    may i show you something?
                    this is my rainwaterClick image for larger version

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                    unfortunately I don't have any pure calcium here, let's try algae lime. I take 150g for about 200l of water.

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                    the ph value initially drops a little.

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                    in about 2 hours it should rain for me. the barrel will fill up to almost 500l ... hopefully. we will see what effect this has on the ph value.


                      I moved away from the rain being the cause of this. Im guessing high alkalinity is the problem in my case, then water pH makes no difference as water can be high alkaline at 7 pH or 6 pH or 8 pH. What makes the difference then is the carbonates and bicarbonates that are being accumulated in my medium over time and thus raising my
                      mediums pH. Im gonna be testing the water for Ca ppms this week and my guess is they are gonna be really high given that its not treated with any chemicals. I will also try to collect rain water and have that tested for Ca ppms.


                        I feel quite sure it's pH related. I can't remember the M.O but by about pH8 the P is melding with one of the other metals, making an unavailable compound. We see it in the dark stripes. The issue isn't that it couldn't get the P. It's the P changing state. The pH was just unworkable, no matter what we did with the food.

                        I also had a remarkably fast Domina. I had it decades... it was so nice. Lent it a friend as I needed to concentrate on other areas. Only rely on yourself in this game..

                        Glad to see you making progress


                          Originally posted by f-e View Post
                          Just to be clear here, Lime increases pH.
                          I guess I'll have to apologize to you.

                          the rain wasn´t come. I was just checking the pH in my rain barrel ... it rose to 9.2!

                          In addition to the apology, I would like to thank you at the same time ... I had stored incorrect information for years ... luckily I was never dependent on it.

                          To be on the safe side, I repeated the test in a 20 liter bucket with tap water. I noticed the following. at the moment when vigorous stirring, the pH value falls ... after approx. 3-4 minutes it is already 0.6 higher than the starting water.,
                          So sorry and thank you very much.


                            links explaining water akalinity vs water pH and how high alkalinity water affects medium pH.


                            Basically the same as the vid but in text form:


                              So we don't get each other wrong.

                              The fact that I was wrong about the increase in calcium beyond Ph7 does not change the fact that it would be a very big coincidence if your problem was not related to the calcium.

                              Calcium was indicated by the brightening as a deficiency ... at the same time all mobile nutrients were removed from the old leaves.

                              If your conclusion were correct, calcium should not appear to be a deficiency ... it would be extensively available as part of the carbonate hardness.

                              Your plants are currently in a phase where the need for calcium is highest.
                              Your plants have got used to high amounts of calcium from their wells. Due to the heavy rain, your calcium in the well was proportionally less. less calcium poorer absorption of all nutrients.

                              with heavy rain and fast flowing water, the water has the least contact time to be able to accumulate. if a lot of fresh rainwater has really got into your well, the buffer effect of your water also changes ... the ph changes.

                              why should bicarbonate build up in the phase in which the most calcium is needed? Why should the symptoms appear if you have poured with water that had a higher proportion of rainwater?

                              why should nutrient exclusion take place without the plant showing it ... the way it holds its leaves and spreads its fingers?

                              it doesn't make any sense ... and just because I was wrong about one point doesn't mean that everything is wrong ..