Potassium? Pests? Iron?? At a loss...

[bg091593]

I am at a loss here. I can't figure out what's going on. All the girls pictured are clones from a critical purple kush mother that I vegged for 8 weeks with NO issue. The DWC plant is using jacks 321 nutes and schedule, while the soil (fox farms happy frog) is getting GH nute schedule at 1/2 strength. The DWC girls have bright white roots, no rot going on there. These are just two of the plants but they ALL have been hit with this. It's strange because it's the same environment, nutes and water. I use a bluelab PH pen and have verified with accuracy several times. You may see some dried neem oil on the leaves.

I've tried flushing with plain water then quarter strength nutes, i've tried dimming the light, i've tried adjusting the RH and temp. I just don't know. Growth is very very very slow.

 

[Growenhaft]

unfortunately i don't understand your text correctly.
can you enter your information about fertilization in ec?

the plant shown has a multiple deficiency. manganese stands out in particular.
but other trace elements do not seem to be sufficiently present either. including magnesium and calcium.
do you use an osmosis system? or rainwater?
what are the values ​​of your tap water if you use one?

 

[wunderbra]

I've tried flushing with plain water then quarter strength nutes, i've tried dimming the light, i've tried adjusting the RH and temp. I just don't know. Growth is very very very slow.

Too many nutes. Stop watering with added nutes, you are only meant to do this periodically. Substrate has plenty of nutes, especially if you are allowing to dry out. This makes a reduction of your nute mix. Too many nutes are poisonous. IMO nutes used in this way are best used in watering systems, over highly drainable substrates e.g. clay-pellets or agricultural-gravel. This keeps the nutes mix even, and they don't build up into poisons.

Just use plain water. No nutes. Plant will recover. Flushing with plain water may be beneficial. Though don't keep making it too wet either, as I suspect your substrate is retaining liquid. The result of too much liquid retention is drowned roots from lack of oxygen.

In my opinion (IMO), cheap compost poisons plants in this way e.g. too much water retention and too much nutes from composting. Result is drowning and poisoning at the same time especially if your grow room is warm, as this really sets the microbes off to anearobic-digestion. Try coco coir, possibly a compost based on coco coir, as they are meant peat-free and thus enviromentally freindly.

But I never use compost since I had results like yours. Heh.

 

[Creeperpark]

Your pH is way off, locking out trace minerals! Fox Farms Happy Frog potting mix has a pH range suited for their fertilizers. Using General Hydroponics for that potting mix is not recommended. You are giving a super example of how the two don't mix. Pro mix HP is a much better potting mix to use with General Hydroponics nutrients
.

 

[bg091593]

unfortunately i don't understand your text correctly.
can you enter your information about fertilization in ec?

the plant shown has a multiple deficiency. manganese stands out in particular.
but other trace elements do not seem to be sufficiently present either. including magnesium and calcium.
do you use an osmosis system? or rainwater?
what are the values ​​of your tap water if you use one?

Sorry for the confusion. 400ppm, tap water. tap water comes out at 150ppm.

The odd thing is NONE of these parameters are new. I've used the same tap water for several grows, and the same ppms for several grows. It just all of sudden came onto these plants.

 

[bg091593]

Your pH is way off, locking out trace minerals! Fox Farms Happy Frog potting mix has a pH range suited for their fertilizers. Using General Hydroponics for that potting mix is not recommended. You are giving a super example of how the two don't mix. Pro mix HP is a much better potting mix to use with General Hydroponics nutrients
filedata/fetch?id=17821941&d=1617354795filedata/fetch?id=17821942&d=1617354822 .

My pH is not off. It's been verified with several pH pens which were calibrated using standard solutions. I agree though it DOES look like a pH problem.

i've used happy frog for several grows and have never had a problem using GH nutes with them. I do like pro mix more though, just went with what was available. I'm having the same issue with my DWC plants (5.5-5.7 pH) as I am with my soil plants (6.0 pH).

 

[bg091593]

Too many nutes. Stop watering with added nutes, you are only meant to do this periodically. Substrate has plenty of nutes, especially if you are allowing to dry out. This makes a reduction of your nute mix. Too many nutes are poisonous. IMO nutes used in this way are best used in watering systems, over highly drainable substrates e.g. clay-pellets or agricultural-gravel. This keeps the nutes mix even, and they don't build up into poisons.

Just use plain water. No nutes. Plant will recover. Flushing with plain water may be beneficial. Though don't keep making it too wet either, as I suspect your substrate is retaining liquid. The result of too much liquid retention is drowned roots from lack of oxygen.

In my opinion (IMO), cheap compost poisons plants in this way e.g. too much water retention and too much nutes from composting. Result is drowning and poisoning at the same time especially if your grow room is warm, as this really sets the microbes off to anearobic-digestion. Try coco coir, possibly a compost based on coco coir, as they are meant peat-free and thus enviromentally freindly.

But I never use compost since I had results like yours. Heh.

This is what I did a few days ago; just pH'd tap water. It's not about my substrate holding too much water because my DWC plants ( with an adequate air gap) are displaying the same symptoms.

 

[wunderbra]

Defo, this is burn from chems.

 

[wunderbra]

Ive just googled what damping off is, and looks like it is mostly caused by pythium, witch is root rot if im not mistaken?

while i never had problems with damping off in rockwool before, I had problems with root rot in all my 3 previous hydro attempts.



This is how the roots looks now. some of the roots are getting somewhat brown/yellow at the tip. Is this a sign of weakness? I have lifted rockwool cubes a bit, so the bottom side is exposed to air, so the roots are getting air pruned. I guess that shouldnt be a problem? I guess the roots need a couple more days to be ready for transplant?



Ive already transplanted one into netpot(too early i guess), and this is what it looks like besides its final destination in an automated system. I also made a cover for netpot, so the light cant go in, and moisture cant get out.

 

[Creeperpark]

Tap water is the enemy and will most always cause problems in the long run. One can get by but the results are most always "less than" using clean water. The buffering needed for drinking water is way up there, because if its not buffered, it will release heavy metals in the drinking water. Another reason for buffering the drinking water is to keep the acidic water from burning your stomach and throat. The pH will not remain stable with nutrients because to the accumulation of .hydroxyl ions. Another reason for not using tap water, is that it always changes and never is the same when it comes to impurities! Always use RO or fresh rain water to stabilize your mix and keep it stable. Your pH is off in the plant, in the photo and is reading a high pH causing the iron to be locked out. You may get an acidic reading now but the time of the photo the a high pH caused the lock out.

 

[Growenhaft]

400ppm, tap water. tap water comes out at 150ppm.

my statement is now very contradicting the previous statements of the other advisors.
But the others know the quality of their tap water, I don't. we have a drinking water ordinance.
this means that water has to come out of the tap so well that mothers can use it to prepare their baby food. in my opinion, is that also the case on your island?

on the other hand, i know my way around water so well that i want to claim that it is certainly not too much nutrient.

because it doesn't matter whether you have given your values ​​in ppm500 scale or in ppm700 scale. In both cases there will be fewer trace elements than needed. i prefer to work with the direct ec value. in order to be able to determine this, i would have to know the scale used. ppm500 (tds) or ppm700 (ecx700)?

trace elements are more wasted when the climate changes. it may well be that you have not had any problems so far, change something in the light and air, suddenly encounter problems that you did not know before. just a few degrees celsius warmer on the leaf surface wastes a lot more calcium. but your trace elements are dependent on the calcium in their absorption.

maybe you will find the reason why it went well before and not anymore. something was changed. Ventilation slots open or closed, all of which can have an impact on nutrient requirements.

at ppm500. your tap water has an ec of 0.3. your nutrient solution ec 0.8. most fertilizer manufacturers assume an average ec of 0.45 for tap water.
Since most of the calcium and magnesium is in tap water, the fertilizer manufacturers count the calcium and magnesium out of the water.
you add less cal / mag to your products because the water already delivers a lot.

so you have a minus of calcium. this ensures that trace elements are not recorded. at ppm700 the situation would be even more dramatic. your water would have an ec of 0.2. your nutrient solution around 0.58.
much too little you work with ghe do you have a picture of your fertilizer?
and what is, or can, this frog? a link would be nice.

 

[Switcher56]

Your pH is way off, locking out trace minerals! Fox Farms Happy Frog potting mix has a pH range suited for their fertilizers. Using General Hydroponics for that potting mix is not recommended. You are giving a super example of how the two don't mix. Pro mix HP is a much better potting mix to use with General Hydroponics nutrients
filedata/fetch?id=17821941&d=1617354795filedata/fetch?id=17821942&d=1617354822 .

I grow in HP Promix and GH was garbage with it. That being said for HP Promix you use the GO line ( organic vs hydro) When I completely switched nute line, I quit having issues.