I feel such a failure

[f-e]

Here comes the stripes on cue

The brown is spreading the same as last round, day perfect almost. The kush has stopped now and will just gain resin

My main head, that was often at silly illumination in these next two

They just won't join up. It's amazing I get any yield at all.
In a week the decent plant will be half browned off

That's it basically. 4 weeks and from here it's just resin production. Bit of weight but they won't link up.

Soon as the cuts are big enough, these are out. Something is off with the cuts though. One has hardly rooted, to my surprise when I went to pot up. The coco left behind when I tried to take out the root ball was catching the light. Like grains of sand. That's fresh coco though. Same bag but they get as far as 15 cell tray in new stuff every time. I'm thinking eggs... but it's rather odd.

Finding levels of feed at this point is quite pointless. Though I have found a number of different feeding charts from my manufacturer now. One claims the 7ml will make ec1.8 to ec2.5 while the bottle says 1.5 and another says use 5ml. Nothing like a good scientific approach. Growth Technologies make my ionic, but I see it in another bottle, same pic, but another brand. They list lots of nice ingredients. It's not GT though, it looks like a rebrand or clone.

At this point... I just tossed some in. 70-52-90-130-Perhaps20

An online general resource was saying that ec2.0 would need a flush every 2 or 3 feeds. I don't think anybody does that. It's extreme.

In another part of the city, things continue as normal. Tap water analysis is coming in at £150 and I'm tempted to do both.

 

[GoatCheese]

I may be repeating myself, but EC of 2.0 is too high for cannabis, imo. The chilis and tomatoes i have grown with my BioBizz nutes do not need EC that high either, so i have no idea where these nute companies get their numbers.

BioBizz is just as out of it. For normal potting soil and coco they suggest you give 4ml/L of their Grow + 4ml/L of their Boom + 4ml/L of their Fish Mix + all their additives during the peak of flowering.
That’s 12ml/L of fertilizers in coco while i gave the Auto-plant in coco, which i’m just about to harvest, 2,8ml/L of fertilizers max. And even that was a bit too much 2,6ml would have been better. My G13Haze in coco is also maxing at 2.6ml/L atm (start of week 6 in flo) and it looks very happy with that amount
Quite a difference, ay 12ml/L vs. 2,8ml/L

And the really funny thing about BioBizz is; althou they keep changing the NPK ratios of their Grow and Bloom just about every year, they have changed the NPKs atleast 2 times since i bought my last bottles!!! And the changes have been quite dramatic ..
..their feeding chart still stays the same year after year! LOL ...what a joke.

 

[planttechniques]

using this link https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/9/20/4432 it looks like P or K

 

[jackspratt61]

using this link https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/9/20/4432 it looks like P or K




they won't take the feed. Calcium makes room to feed.

 

[St. Phatty]

You guys should get paid for learning all this stuff, about Hydro.

When I was growing in Rockwool, all I had was a pH meter.

NASA & private aerospace companies are interested in this tech.

Elon Musk's Mars dreams may be a sign that he's smoking some good Herb, but if he's willing to pay $500K a year for a good Hydro in Space engineer ...

Just remember for that to work, launch weight has to be minimized.

One of the tech. challenges is to convert astronaut urine into Tasty Grow Water, for the plants.

Though they might like pure urine.

 

[f-e]

I continue to puzzle over the timing of this. As seen here, I know what's coming to the day. They get two feeds a day when one would about last. So even if this was inert hydro some food would be there. The most sturdy explanation is the cec being taken up by something unwanted. Though it only matters now. That bothers me. I looked towards plant morphology changes, and pondered on the root systems slow down. That maybe when actively growing new stuff I'm looking alright, but as root growth slows I'm getting into trouble.

After morning feed, I put a pots worth through just one again. Using water from my de-hu and my base feed at half, 50-22-90-25-? plus neem oil. Now that plant isn't up to much anyway, but as you look across it and it's 3 siblings, you see buds whiter than elsewhere. From any distance, clearly whiter. Do night I have copied that half feed for tomorrow, but with tap and NCD. 65-44-90-85-? My interest being in the plant that got the neem. I have the RO filter now, but... diagnostics yo? I want to know all I can about this issue, it's got me so beat.

I think the stripes forming are actually Iron. It's going white. Though K can lean towards white and the margins are rolling. I expected Mg.. but it could be a mix of all 3...
I'm really not great at deficiencies and in these circumstances...

Look how the initial browning at the tip fades into this Iron? problem. I might bump the iron to something reasonable, like a full feeds worth. Iron is one of coco's main balancing acts.


I have the brakes on the spread of brown hairs more than ever. One of our buds literally stood still the last 24 hours.

 

[flylowgethigh]

I am using the cal-mag that has iron, and my plants aren't doing that.

You are supposed to be able to strip off the cations from whatever collards your deal has, but I am not sure how. It may be as simple as a lot of H+ .

Probably not applicable to coco, but here this is... I have some humic acid coming, to add more powerful collards. I am going to try some in my thick clay garden also. Reading this, I want fulvic acid also. This link has a link to fixing lockout.

https://www.royalqueenseeds.com/blo...ic-and-fulvic-acids-for-growing-cannabis-n965

The humic I am getting: https://www.ebay.com/itm/282114952635

That seller has soluable acids like amino and fulvic - can those be added in coco?

 

[f-e]

Yes they are viable for coco. I didn't say before, but my base feed is black as it carries both. Making it hard to dose automatically as it settles quickly. The mixing pump in the concentrate gets totally caked up in it, but that's not in use the last couple of runs as I'm fannying around making 10% adjustments all the time. Knowing full well our plants are really not very difficult in the grand scheme of things. They will do ok with a wide range of feeds, just taking what they want unless it's really wrong. Though as a high value crop, every percent different is worth chasing.


To fe, or not to fe. That is the question. Is it nobler to stay in the battle, knowing it is lost. Or to surrender and fight another way

 

[f-e]

So.. obviously I did the f-e

It's only now dawned upon me that decaying coco gives up sodium. Across town ~25% gets changed each time, but here not even 10%. Plus there it never gets dry, but here is needs wetting agents after the different sifting process. I'm also much much heavier on the P and calmag so unavailable phosphates are going to cling on. Its coming clear to me slowly..

I'm feeling some relief. I get to do some shopping for the first time this year now, so I'm fairly set on the areas I need to address.

 

[flylowgethigh]

using this link https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/9/20/4432 it looks like P or K




That's a good paper. Here is a pic of a plant that despite hitting it with cal-mag for over month each watering, is still calcium deficient per the pictures.

 

[VerdantGreen]

Hey Fe, the water board should be able to tell you about the tapwater for free (tell them you are growing blueberries - which like an acidic soil - and you need to know how much calcium / magnesium the tapwater contains. I found out that in my area, they add calcium to make the water 'better for drinking' !
in a general gardening sense, Fe def is usually the first sign of soil being too alkaline for the plant's preferences.

I got into a rut a few years ago, and got my mojo back by changing to rainwater from tapwater.

GL
VG

 

[Guest]

Chelators my friend.

 

[flylowgethigh]

Chelators my friend.

Just what I need, another topic to study. Thanks. But yeah, there is something missing. Maybe it is in the bag of leonardite that showed up today. I think foliar treatments will become part of my deal here too.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/hs1208

 

[f-e]

Hey Fe, the water board should be able to tell you about the tapwater for free (tell them you are growing blueberries - which like an acidic soil - and you need to know how much calcium / magnesium the tapwater contains. I found out that in my area, they add calcium to make the water 'better for drinking' !
in a general gardening sense, Fe def is usually the first sign of soil being too alkaline for the plant's preferences.

I got into a rut a few years ago, and got my mojo back by changing to rainwater from tapwater.

GL
VG

Thanks for the words.
At some point nearly everyone has had me over because they forgot how to grow. I never thought it would be my turn.
When it comes to flushing, A couple of days on a low feed is my bag. Taking that then letting it dry to aid sifting the roots has done me I think. By the time it's used again, I have needed wetting agents in water, added a bit at a time over a day or so. Really dry..
The high pH the last few days rings true. I have been using minimal acid for flushing reasons. Tonight (and last night) they are swimming in flushing solution made 50% stronger than the bottle says. Today's tank may not of even been corrected with anything, judging by the meter and lack of interest I displayed yesterday. The day before, like tomorrow, half the basic bloom feed only. I slowed the fe enough to say stopped it, and today saw a little Mg and more salt like damage. I think the flush and low feed are giving the plants little choice but to eat it. Other than turning dry hairs too dry and dehydrated, not a lot has happened.

Next one is yesterday. Today it's so bad I deleted the pic.

Cuttings are now in 5" so these have little time left. 2 weeks tops. Just for the front row really, as I have 3 new ones in. I can't judge them from this though. I have to do all 3 again

 

[f-e]

I think someone's swapped my plants for plastic one's. It's the only logical explanation.
I can feed them more or less and it really doesn't matter. I grow perfectly good looking plants, and at 2 weeks somebody swaps them out. They neither feed nor look interested in doing so. If they at least died I would have a clue. It's like I'm feeding them preservatives, not bloom (which has come from different bottles from different counties)

No change in direction. All the worst one's look ready to come down. Every hair a nice red more than brown. Whats there is ok. It's all firm nugs. Just 75% of it is missing. Like a really early finish. It's not a 35 day plant though. It's a monster.
The white one is looking gammy now. Like it might just go to mush. Death is upon it.

I can't shake the idea it could be bacterial. recent Orca use has done nothing. Hydroguard doesn't seem to be in the UK. I can't pump hydrogen peroxide. Not at all.

My pump is on my mind. It's never flowed this low a dripper count. A 5x20mm S shaped paddle spinning like you wouldn't believe. Enough to stop me using even a sniff of peroxide without cavitation. I wonder if the slow pass rate is pounding the feed enough to alter it.

I know the general idea here is the coco being locked up, but do I really need the coco's cec anyway? Everythings in my feed, changed twice a day. I have fed on flushing solution for days. Got the EC down. Found I can feed at 0.7 and the runoff stays the same. Taps 0.3 so 0.7 isn't much.

What have a made that's toxic or am I failing to deliver due to pumping issues. Or what's living in there.

Adding a load of calcium (I can't seem to get locally) might be science lost on me. I guess it's both to displace and improve cec. However the imbalance this could correct seems of little scale, after flushing it to almost nothing then putting in a high EC full range feed. It just doesn't account for as much feed difference as switching feed brands might. Unless we are displacing a poison with that idea. It just seems like more cec sites though. I just can't do blind faith. So have not mail ordered anything.

 

[GoatCheese]

Seems weird. It isn’t salts in the coco anymore that’s causing it if your run off EC seems fine, so maybe it’s some bacterial shit.
..and if it is, remember you REALLY have to sanitize your hydro system before you start another grow or it might come back.

- I have given my Auto plant in coco just plain water the past ten days (no NPK nutrients in about three weeks) and it’s finishing up normally, flowers are swelling etc. I’m cutting her down in few days, so the hard flushing shouldn’t be the issue.

- Also, i doubt it’s your pump cause the vigor looked fine till you hit the problem big time and the coco being too dry would have made the plants look different, yellowing much more than they have

So for some weird reason they are stunned.


Now that i look at the photos of that used coco you posted few pages ago, the old stalks look quite sick. When i cut my soil plants down and leave the soil to dry in the pots, the stalks in them just dry out, they haven’t had that blackening going on like on your photos, so something is wrong, and it’s prolly bacterial/ fungal, but i’m no expert in those kinds of issues.
..some of the thicker roots on those used coco blocks seem to be growing some white spots on them and it doesn’t look good to me.
My plants have looked like that only when i have put the used soil out in my balcony in plastic bags during cold wet autumn and the plant matter has started rotting inside the bags

-
-

If you come to the conclusion that is bacterial/fungal and the plants seem to be going no where..
..do you think you should cut your loses and cut those plants down and start over again with new clones in fresh coco once you have sanitized your hydro gear?
I would but it’s your call. There’s no point in running more electrical bill and losing your hair and more nutrients if the plants seem totally fucked and it really doesn’t seem normal to me.

Having to pull grows down mid way is a right bummer, i've had to do it few times, but it's part of this game

 

[f-e]

Did anyone see which way I chucked my dummy?

While I don't want to repeat it, academic as it is, it's still got some worth. So I have kept it on just poking at it while I try to find the root cause of my problem. Though it only has about a week left as the next set of plants are about big enough to replace them.

It's fairly well established that my coco is getting ruined and how I can treat it, but it's symptoms not cause. That old coco in the pics has plants in it now, looking fine. Just messing about, you understand. However that's nothing new.

It's too early to say, but I might have my problem figured.
At first build I did 22oz a few times on the trot, like it was impossible to move from that number. I improved my training but the buds did this sooner to compensate. I was watering 3 times a day. At some point I reduced this too two a day. I was to watch for problems, but this slipped my mind. One watering interval would almost get me through 24h so two seemed okay but this isn't soil and it's small pots. I have seen burn do this to hairs but usually more typical burn signs are present. A few people here pointed to hot feed but it was a balanced response and my numbers going in do look good. The problem is, they come straight back out. Some of thought I need something for them to cling to as my coco is ruined. All good plans, but only I have the things in front of me and hours a day to curse at them. I think my watering frequency is wrong. In further reading I saw a site that follows my veg route, into flower, then doubles the number of fertigations. Their responce to high runoff is more frequent fertigations. Not more runoff. I felt some affinity to what I read, as they flush as I have in the past, and it's really just the frequency through bloom where we differ and somehow (I went on holiday with automation) I have gone for less times a day, when I had been set to go more. This level of detail is missing from my early logs here.

I time things to fill the system at the end of stretch, as the buds come, and the problem. It's compounding evidence. At this time I'm using perhaps 60-70% of the water available, and maybe here is the problem. The EC comes up in the pots. I mean... it just will. In the first two weeks in any sized pot the runoff is lower than supplied, even if I supply ec2.4 but about 2 weeks in it balances out. The veg over, and flowering coming into swing. It's all adding up. If I take half the water out, but not the food, I double the ec. I take over half the water, unknown food, It's simple enough math though.


I think I finally have a story that picks up on all the pointers. Old coco gets dense, especially when half of it is composting roots. I may not be able to fertigate every few hours when the substrate is used (Perlite...). Which has made more frequent watering unattractive.

I do have enough watering data to see if the reduction in frequency ties with a more pronounced drop. I'm just a bit busy... I did do 4 yesterday though and it was promising. Inconclusive, but promising


I have ordered another type of pump to hopefully make hydrogen peroxide a tool I can use again. I do have some, but can't get it through my lines.

 

[f-e]

Looks like this problem has been in every blooming session here. Setting in on the same week.

Two days of 4 fertigations a day, the runoff appears steady. 1.2 in 1.5 out. That's a concerning distance between the readings, but it's just about acceptable. They might be fattening but I'm not taking pics. No new white hairs, which I would like to see.

It's odd. 8-10 days eating huge amounts. Then a few days happy. Then don't want to eat, just frazzle. By 3 weeks it's all over really. It's a full-on stall as they go into flower.

The RO machine was broke. Meh.


I can't let the mold idea pass. They really do like to mold here. There is no way I could do a 9 week bloom. I should look at an inline steriliser for filling the tank through. It's all too much though. wtf..

 

[planttechniques]

pythium or fusarium would be my guess at this point. I hand water my coco but have read that if you use a res with pumps you must add something like hydroguard or hydrogen peroxide or else it's certain you will get rot. Water temp is also critical, what is yours, is it 69 degrees farenheit or less where it needs to be?

 

[GoatCheese]

What you need to start doing is sterilizing all your hydro dripfeed gear with strong sterilizing soap and/or hydroperoxide-water after grows and stop reusing coco if things look bad. These really are just hydro-growing basics, bro.

Some people also let the used coco sit in boiling water for a while before re-using it and/or give it a hydroperoxide treatment; which should kill alot of shit in it and also rinse out some of the old salts.
Boiling large amounts of coco may not be practical but larger grows are for drug dealers anyways and they should have money to buy new coco fairly often
You should always rinse out old coco regardless before reusing it.

Really sterilize and scrub your gear well. You can clean drip feed lines by tying wool threads to a steel wire and running that thru the piping few times while it has been sitting in sterilizing soap water for a while; and push paper towels thru larger piping to get all the shit out of them. Then let them sit in and/or run a strong hydroperoxide-water thru them for a while after that.