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    buttbrain,
    Similar results, but must use wetting agent for best results. I use simple CocoWet. Did you use spinosad without wetting agent or with? Thanks. -granger
    Fully compliant Medical Patient.

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      ........................

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        Originally posted by TanzanianMagic View Post
        If I thought it was dangerous, I wouldn't do it or recommend it.

        However, you dry the weed, which won't be good for nematodes that live in moisture. And then you burn the weed, which would kill it again, I presume.

        Oh by the way, it seems that Spinosad, which is a chemical, is toxic to bees.

        I'll take my chances with the nematodes, which by the way don't survive months of drying and curing, before any hypothetical survivor gets 'challenged' by being torched when you smoke your weed.

        The National Institutes of Health on Spinosad:

        Rev Environ Contam Toxicol. 2003;179:37-71.
        Spinosad toxicity to pollinators and associated risk.
        Mayes MA1, Thompson GD, Husband B, Miles MM.
        Author information

        * 1Dow AgroSciences, Field Exposure and Effects Laboratory, 9330 Zionsville Road, Indianapolis, IN 46268, USA.

        Abstract

        Spinosad is a natural insecticide derived from an actinomycete bacterium species, Saccharopolyspora spinosa (Mertz and Yao 1990), that displays the efficacy of a synthetic insecticide. It consists of the two most active metabolites, designated spinosyn A and D. Both spinosyns are readily degraded in moist aerobic soil, and field dissipation, which is quite rapid (half-life, 0.3-0.5 d) can be attributed to photolysis or a combination of metabolism and photolysis. Spinosad causes neurological effects in insects that are consistent with the general activation of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors but by a mechanism that is novel among known insecticide compounds. Spinosad has a high level of efficacy for lepidopteran larvae, as well as some Diptera, Coleoptera, Thysanoptera, and Hymenoptera, but has limited to no activity to other insects and exhibits low toxicity to mammals and other wildlife. Although spinosad has low toxicity to most beneficial insects, initial acute laboratory tests indicated that spinosad is intrinsically toxic to pollinators. The hazard of spinosad to bees was evaluated using a tiered approach. Initial acute laboratory exposures were conducted, followed by toxicity of residues of spinosad on treated foliage, greenhouse studies to assess acute as well as chronic toxicity, confined field assessments, and finally full field studies using a variety of crops under typical use conditions. These data were used to assess the potential of adverse effects on foraging bees following the use of spinosad. This research has clearly demonstrated that spinosad residues that have been allowed to dry for 3 hr are not acutely harmful to honeybees when low-volume and ultralow-volume sprays are used. Further, glasshouse and semifield studies have demonstrated that dried residues are not acutely toxic, and although pollen and nectar from sprayed plants may have transient effects on brood development, the residues do not overtly affect hive viability of either the honeybee or the bumblebee. Field studies in which typical application methods of spinosad were used on a variety of crops have demonstrated that spinosad has low risk to adult honeybees and has little or no effect on hive activity and brood development. The collective evidence from these studies indicates that once spinosad residues have dried on plant foliage, generally 3 hr or less, the risk of spinosad to honeybees is negligible.

        PMID:
        15366583
        [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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          Yes, Spinosad is toxic to bees. Not an issue indoors. -granger
          Fully compliant Medical Patient.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Bud Bug View Post
            Couple of things

            Persimilis and I'm not sure about the other predator mites need higher humidity for the eggs to survive. You also want to get them in vermiculite as they are more hungry then the ones that come on grape leaves which also contains bad mites for food on the leaves. If you veg for a long time lower your temps to 80 and keep your humidity at 55-60% to slow down the pest mites. Again it'll help out Persimilis. Also once all the pest mites are gone the Persimilis will eat each other.

            Lady bugs can work BUT they'll eat the mites as a last resort food they work best on aphids.

            Pyrethrin based products work good. Best application rate would be to spray once every three days three times in a row and then re apply every 5-7 days. The only thing about Pyrethrin is that it can cause the spider mite to lay eggs when its hit with a Pyrethrin spray.

            Dr Doom bombs work good for a big knock down but with the new formulation of the carrying agent they seem to burn the leaves quite a bit more then they use to. Dr Doom Botanics works quite good and can be sprayed right onto the plants. Try to spray a few hours before lights come on as Pyrethrin is broken down in two hours by HID lights and also reduce leaf/hair damage.

            End All like products use canola oil as a carrying agent and will damage leaves if sprayed too often and can leave a nasty taste if used past the second week of flower.

            Safers soap works good by dissolving the outer shell of the mite/bug but again can damage leaves if used too often. Try to spray straight water in between application the remove the soap/oil.

            Konk 418 in a Konk dispenser set to dispense in 7-15 intervals can control most bugs pretty good. Just set one every few light. The Konk dispense is expensive and a cheaper alternative can be a Ona Mist dispenser (although not as good as the Konk one) with a Dr Doom metered spray inside of it.

            Spraying/misting water ever few days onto the plants goes a log way to keep mites down.

            Another good mix which can be found in the How To Super Charge Your Garden book is to mix 20ml's of 99% ISO alcohol and 30ml's of 30% hydrogen peroxide and some watting agent into 1 liter of water. Then spray away. It kills most bugs.

            I wish Growing Edge magazine was still around. Best hydroponics magazine there was.

            Two other good preventative products that will deter mites and other bugs with extracts from other plants. Nutrilife SM-90 and Each Juice Essential Spray.
            Do a little research man... lady bugs and preying mantis' are often thought to eat mites.. first of all lady bugs are too large to feed on the size of mites considering how minute they are.. theyre mouths are too large. you have to go to a nursery an buy alligators(baby ladybugs) and preying manti only feed twice a day so if you have an infestation you cant really rely on these AT ALL.. I found the best thing is SM90 it kills on contact and can be sprayed all the way until the 5th week of flower..not to mention it has a nice citrus scent haha

            Comment


              God help us all

              Originally posted by TanzanianMagic View Post
              If I thought it was dangerous, I wouldn't do it or recommend it.

              However, you dry the weed, which won't be good for nematodes that live in moisture. And then you burn the weed, which would kill it again, I presume.
              It is quotes like these that scare the bejeezus out of me. Come on guys really? If he "thought" it was dangerous. Sounds very scientific. It is also quotes like this that have forced me to grow my own bud. Irresponsible growers making choices that affect consumers health based on gut feelings is at least foolish at worst morally reprehensible and outright dangerous. Please people do A LOT of research before you use a product. Good information is available. Please also ALWAYS try as many safe products as you can use before turning to anything remotely chemical, including Pyrethrins. Furthermore anyone who uses Avid should be ashamed of themselves. I am not some kind of hippy tree hugger who hates chemicals. I use chemicals all the time in my everyday life of all sorts. However Avid is a systemic chemical and WILL remain in your finished product no matter how much you flush or how long you grow your plants. Please dont distribute your Avid contaminated product to the world. If you want to smoke it, go ahead but be responsible and do not let others smoke it without at least informing them of the idiotic risk they will be taking.

              I don't have too much faith that my rant will stop anyone from using highly toxic poisons but if I can even get one person to reconsider....

              Just do a little research on Monsanto, ADM and Roundup and you will learn an eye opening amount of how Big Agro manipulates the data and the market and distributes products whose long term health affects are not proven safe.
              My Grow: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=276848

              Comment


                There are multiple stickies on Spider Mites in the Cannabis Infirmary.

                I use Nematodes in soil. They work great, but I don't know of a strain that will survive out of the soil for more than a short time. Correct me if I'm wrong, and what strain is it? Good luck. -granger
                Fully compliant Medical Patient.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by sahdgrower View Post
                  It is quotes like these that scare the bejeezus out of me. Come on guys really? If he "thought" it was dangerous. Sounds very scientific. It is also quotes like this that have forced me to grow my own bud. Irresponsible growers making choices that affect consumers health based on gut feelings is at least foolish at worst morally reprehensible and outright dangerous. Please people do A LOT of research before you use a product. Good information is available. Please also ALWAYS try as many safe products as you can use before turning to anything remotely chemical, including Pyrethrins. Furthermore anyone who uses Avid should be ashamed of themselves. I am not some kind of hippy tree hugger who hates chemicals. I use chemicals all the time in my everyday life of all sorts. However Avid is a systemic chemical and WILL remain in your finished product no matter how much you flush or how long you grow your plants. Please dont distribute your Avid contaminated product to the world. If you want to smoke it, go ahead but be responsible and do not let others smoke it without at least informing them of the idiotic risk they will be taking.

                  I don't have too much faith that my rant will stop anyone from using highly toxic poisons but if I can even get one person to reconsider....

                  Just do a little research on Monsanto, ADM and Roundup and you will learn an eye opening amount of how Big Agro manipulates the data and the market and distributes products whose long term health affects are not proven safe.
                  I don't know what your beef is, but take it up with someone else. You quote my reply about using worm tea on buds into flowering, and you start yapping about Avid and other chemicals?

                  And by the way, you have not shown that using worm tea is 'dangerous'.

                  'Not very scientific' - you don't know the meaning of the word.

                  Comment


                    easy mite mix

                    Per gallon of water add 2 tblsp. dr bronners liquid peppermint soap, 2 tblsp.veg. oil, and 2 tblsp. of rubbing alcohol. apply immediatly to tops and bottoms of leaves liberally once a day for three days..reapeat if necessary. the mites hate peppermint and the soap is anatural emulsifier. alcohol kills mites and egg on contact. veg. oil leaves foilage new and shiny. i have used this mix up til the week of harvest with complete success and no ill effects.hope this helps.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by TanzanianMagic View Post
                      I don't know what your beef is, but take it up with someone else. You quote my reply about using worm tea on buds into flowering, and you start yapping about Avid and other chemicals?

                      And by the way, you have not shown that using worm tea is 'dangerous'.

                      'Not very scientific' - you don't know the meaning of the word.
                      I have no beef with you personally. I don't know you. My beef is with people providing advice to other growers with little to no evidence to support their claims. I never suggested worm tea is dangerous, nor is it my job to prove that it is, rather if you are suggesting someone use a particular approach the impetus is on you to have some background knowledge on the subject and to know that the advice you are giving is safe and credible. The reason I added Avid into the same post is that same notion that "it seems ok to me" is constantly used to justify the use of something that is clearly toxic and definitely SHOULD NOT be used on our Maryjane. But still used frequently and advised frequently.

                      In my opinion this forum is a great tool to help growers of all levels, that being said the problem with this forum is too many people giving out too much advice as if it is gospel (especially a lot of people with little to no experience or expertise on the specific subject they are advising on). Now I as much as the next guy want to help everyone and give advice when I can, so if I feel the need to chime in on a subject, unless I am an expert I will add sturdy disclaimers to my suggestions. That way people reading it understand the evidence I have to support my claims.

                      I am not sure why you think I don't understand the meaning of scientific. I am only trying to add to the forum a degree of restraint. I am sorry you took offense. I did not mean to offend. I only ask that you are willing to defend and explain your positions/suggestions with some type of evidence, other than anecdotal. I should hope that an open forum of this type would encourage this type of questioning. Otherwise we may find the blind leading the blind. Again truly no offense directed to you personally, only the lack of a well thought out and helpful posting.
                      My Grow: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=276848

                      Comment


                        excellent! 10/10 thank you!!!!!!!!!

                        Comment


                          I've never had a problem with SM's,but have had them when I got a Clone n didn't check it great.Thought about Predator Mites,Lady Bugs etc.But they do some same things as SiderMites...They Poop.So if you use(Imo)any live treatments there will be fecal matter.Dont like Chems and The Co2 method is an old Wives Tale.I use Safers 3 in 1 Organic pest control.And I always put a No-Pest Strip somewhere for preventive Measures and Have stopped the one infestation I had Cold.But I have a cardboard box I put panda plastic on bottom,I Mylar the sides and I put a snap on fan and a couple snap on lights from the garage and every incoming plant goes straight in the box till they prove there not contagious.Peace and Stay Safe,DancesWithWeed ����
                          Stil Dancing,DWW

                          Comment


                            Dichlorvos (No Pest Strips) are not intended to be hung continuously or near living space. To put it plainly, you're poisoning yourself with a nerve toxin while providing less than a lethal dose of pesticide to any mites present (pesticide resistance).

                            Segregating new cuttings is good practice.

                            Originally posted by sahdgrower View Post
                            My beef is with people providing advice to other growers with little to no evidence to support their claims
                            I couldn't agree more.

                            Originally posted by sahdgrower
                            However Avid is a systemic chemical and WILL remain in your finished product no matter how much you flush or how long you grow your plants.

                            Avid is a tradename. Abamectin is the actual compound, comprised of two avermectins produced by bacterial fermentation. The process is similar to that of spinosad in a general way.

                            Abamectin has limited mobility within plant tissue and is not considered systemic (re: low water solubility).

                            It is considered translaminar, re: will migrate partially from one leaf surface to an another.

                            Abamectin binds to soil particles well and will not easily "flush" out, but is quickly broken down by soil bacteria (though very slow in sterile conditions). Breakdown in plant tissue is much faster, with a halflife of 2.4 days in tomatoes (Source). Surface foliage breakdown is fastest (due to sunlight), within 24hrs almost all abamectin is degraded completely.

                            Further reading, including verification of some of the information above.

                            There are toxicity concerns with abamectin and caution must be taken when applying and disposing of the mixed solution. Read all available safety information. It's not something I would generally recommend, but in the right situation is a potent insecticide.

                            Not really the boogeyman the fear mongers and Chicken Littles would have you think, but still something to take seriously. Educate yourselves.

                            Comment


                              Phytoseiulus persimilis does not work under 12 hours of light. They stop eating the pests. One of the reasons people have trouble getting rid of the Borg...... It has to be done under long light before flowering.
                              -SamS


                              Originally posted by B. Friendly View Post
                              http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2009/...roponic-pests/
                              Spider Mites Suck!

                              By Urban Garden Magazine ⋅ August 5, 2009 ⋅ View Image Email This PostView Image Print This PostPost a comment
                              Filed Under Issue 6, ladybugs, pests, pyrethrum, Raul del Cerro, spider mites, Technogarden
                              Raul del Cerro at Technogarden Inc. shares his tried and tested tips for tackling one of the most feared and loathed enemies of all indoor gardeners – the spider mite. We learn what they are, what they do to your plants, and how to make them die! DIE! DIE! DIE!!!
                              Spider Mites. Everybody gets them and everybody gets rid of them … eventually. After being infiltrated by spider mites more than once … most growers get serious.
                              First, allow me to break some harsh news. The number one rule for avoiding spider mites is … don’t accept plant gifts from your friends. If their plant genetics are just too tempting to pass up then I recommend putting the imported seedlings or cuttings into quarantine for a minimum of six months. Sound a little Draconian to you? Well, remember, most gardeners report that they discovered mites a short time after they accepted plants from a fellow grower. If you accept cuttings from other growers then your indoor garden is only as clean as theirs.
                              A note on cleanliness: your indoor garden and your house in general need to be AT LEAST as clean as a dentist’s office. Professional and commercial indoor growers are obsessive about cleanliness. Take a page out of their book.
                              Why are Spider Mite Attacks so Devastating?
                              An indoor garden can be paradise for all types of plant pests because of the lack of natural controls and predatory bugs (unless these are introduced by the grower). But spider mites are particularly vicious and can cause severe injury to your plants in a very short time. So what do they actually do?
                              A healthy plant regulates its water retention and transpiration through its leaves. A leaf contains a vast array of stomata that open and close like valves according to environmental conditions, allowing water to escape or to be retained. This moisture regulation is absolutely vital to a plant’s health. When the stomata are closed, the surface of a leaf is highly resistant to water loss. This is part of your plant’s life-support system. And guess what? Spider mites completely screw it up!
                              View Image Leaves that have been attacked by spider mites are usually dry, brittle and discolored. Even a minor spider mite infestation can have a significant impact on a plant's productivity.

                              Spider mites feed by piercing the leaf surface and extracting leaf cells and fluid. What was once the plant’s protective, waterproof casing quickly becomes punctured with thousands of tiny holes. Your plants sense they are losing too much moisture all of a sudden and close their stomata – but it’s no use as the moisture is still being lost through the holes made by those evil critters! The injured leaves continue to become dehydrated and lose significantly more water. The effect snowballs as the plant’s ability to photosynthesize and repair itself diminishes through sustained attack. Leaves die and fall off. The plant becomes weaker and weaker until it eventually gives up the ghost. Major infestations show up quickly given the right conditions. Plants that looked healthy two days ago can suddenly be covered in fine spider webs.
                              And then it gets worse. The moisture stress caused by spider mite feeding actually makes the leaves taste better to the mites! Stressed leaves are sweeter and contain higher levels of soluble nitrogen. Both sugar and nitrogen are favorite delicacies on the spider mite menu.
                              A Tiny Mo Foe
                              Novice growers are continually astounded that something so small can wreak such a huge amount of havoc. Yes, spider mites are small. Really, really small. The female is only 1/50 of an inch long and the male is even smaller. They are mere specks when seen crawling on the undersurface of leaves. The adult has eight legs and is usually pale green or amber / yellow. Under a microscope they appear to have two (occasionally four) black spots. Young mites are six-legged. After two periods of molting and resting, they become adults and have eight legs. Generations may be completed in 5 to 40 days. If you don’t own a jeweler’s loupe, you should consider buying one. They are fairly inexpensive.
                              Spider mites are so tiny that they can float in on a breeze! They can therefore easily migrate from other plants that you may have in your house to your indoor garden. Mites will go dormant, even when pregnant. They will hitch a ride on your shoes and clothes and on your Rottweiller. Savvy growers cover all air intakes with a bug screen. Often you can buy these at your local indoor gardening store, or you can fashion one yourself with an ultra-fine mesh silkscreen or stainless steel screen. Just make sure it is 180 microns or less.
                              Tech Tip
                              Before you go cover all your intake and exhausts with 180-micron stainless steel screen, know that the screen is only 33% open area and so generates a great deal of air resistance. If you don’t take this into account you will cut down your CFMs of airflow and up the static pressure of your room’s air handling system(s). In order to get to what is called (Net Free Air) or (CFMs corrected for louver / screen / etc impingement) air flow you need to oversize the penetration / duct, so do the math. I usually like to oversize and go four times bigger than the ductwork for the 180-micron screened vent penetration.
                              Prevention, Control and Cure
                              “So how do I get rid of spider mites?” – this question is asked time and time again and the answer is an issue of hot debate and contention among indoor gardeners. There are so many different approaches and philosophies when it comes to pest management, with some growers invariably being willing to resort to more extreme measures than others.
                              Obviously, as with all pests, prevention is better than cure. But tell that to somebody who’s just discovered an infestation and this little gem of wisdom is not likely to be greeted very philosophically. The choice of product you use also depends on where your plants are in terms of their lifecycle. One product that is good for vegetative plants may not be advisable to use if your plants are heavily flowering. If you are a couple weeks away from harvest, even if you have the serious infestation and have the web thing going on, knock the bugs down with cold water and finish the crop. Some studies have even shown increased yields with moderate levels of insect stress.
                              View ImageKnow Thine Enemy
                              • Spider mites thrive in hot, dry conditions. Cooler, more humid conditions slow reproductive rates considerably.
                              • Outdoors, spider mites are active in the spring and go dormant over winter. The risk of spider mites is always greater if you live in a region that does not freeze during the winter.
                              Do the Rest of Us a Favor
                              Before you go running to your grow store with your spider mite woes, remember to change your clothes and shoes. Grow stores often have problems with spider mites and other insect problems due to customers dragging them in on their shoes and clothes.
                              Bombs Away
                              Many growers who are not using predator mites use a total release fogger (aka ‘bomb’) to treat a spider mite infestation in an indoor garden. These products release an insecticide ‘fog’ using an aerosol propellant. If you are going to bomb your indoor garden, you may want to consider moving your houseplants into the room and bombing them too.
                              The active ingredient of a total release fogger is Pyrethrum. Pyrethrum will kill adult mites but it will not kill the eggs. The gestation period of spider mites is temperature and humidity dependant, but most growers deploy a strategy of setting off multiple bombs three to five days apart. This will usually kill the adults and then the juvenile mites before they have had a chance to reproduce. I advise growers to go for three or four consecutive bombings depending on how close you are to harvest and how angry you are.
                              Another important thing to consider is all Pyrethrums are not equal. Natural Pyrethrum bombs are made from Chrysanthemum plants; they are suitable for food crops. Synthetic Pyrethrums are not suitable for food crop production. Read the fine print on the label and FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS. UV (Ultraviolet) light reduces the insecticidal qualities of pyrethrum (most manufactures say in 14 days). However, if you are using High Pressure Sodium (HPS) lamps these put out virtually no UV light anyway.
                              Remember, the bomb’s propellant will harm your plants if you do not position it correctly. Do not push the plunger of a bomb and set it in front of an oscillating fan, which is going to blow the propellant all over your plants. Before you set the bomb off, shut off your grow-lights and fans, place a small piece of cardboard under the bomb, hold your breath, hit the button, run out of the room and go for some drinks. It is safe to come back in a couple hours to turn the fans on.
                              I tend to set off bombs as a preventative measure, when I flip (clean) the room in between crop cycles or … just if I feel like mites may be a threat.
                              CAUTION: Systemic Pesticides and Consumable Crops
                              If you are growing crops that you intend to consume, make sure that your pesticide is designed to be used for human consumption. Some systemic and residual pesticides (such as Floramite™ and Avid™) are not designed for food crops. Yes, they will kill mites and spider mites’ eggs, but the insecticide remains inside the crop; Avid™ is systemic which means it stays in the system of the plant and does not go away after time.
                              Mother Nature’s Controls
                              You can ask your grow store to purchase predatory bugs for you. Since they are live bugs most stores will require you to pre pay so they don’t get stuck with dead bugs if you forget show up in a couple days.
                              Ladybugs will eat spider mites if there are no other insect treats around (such as aphids); if you drop several thousand ladybugs in your garden they will eat everything, including each other. I have seen desperate growers that have gone this route. The aftermath of this is dead ladybugs everywhere.
                              Mighty Last Words
                              The best overall advice I can offer is that healthy plants will repel insect attacks. I’m pleased to report that I’ve experienced no spider mite infestations in over a year, and that was on an ornamental banana tree. Treat your plants right and they’ll do the preventative work for you.

                              Biological Control:
                              TARGET: Spider Mites
                              AGENT:
                              Spider Mite Preds
                              SPECIAL SKILL:
                              Enjoys high humidity, breeds faster than spider mites.
                              WEAPON ID:
                              The three main spider mite preds are: Mesoseiulus longipes, Neoseiulus californicus, and Phytoseiulus persimilis. These are available as a triple-pack from some suppliers. Highly recommended.
                              BRIEF:
                              Spider mite predators are small mites that eat only Spider Mites. They not only feed on spider mites and their eggs, they also breed twice as fast! Each spider mite predator sucks the juice out of about five spider mites a day, or twenty of their eggs. Different species of spider mite predators have their own preferred temperature and humidity. If you use a mix then each type will seek out their preferred “zones” in the plant structure. Predator mites do best with warm temperatures and high humidity. The more moisture in the air the better. (Spider mites hate high humidity.) They move quicker and reproduce faster than the spider mites. For best results apply one predator for every five spider mites, so you best catch that infestation early or deploy them as a precautionary measure.
                              Need extra reinforcements? Try Stethorus Punctillum. These specialist spider mite destroyers are actually tiny ladybugs which can eat more than 40 mites per day as adults. They eat spider mites at all stages and can find new infestations on their own by flying. Adult female spider mite destroyers lay up to 15 eggs per day. Just 100 spider mite destroyers are enough to start up a colony to protect an average home greenhouse.

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                                ����
                                Last edited by FullyMeltedDome; 06-29-2015, 05:39.
                                Stil Dancing,DWW

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