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Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

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  • buzzmobile
    replied
    Those are flies. Not sure which kind but here's some help.
    http://phorid.net/zadbi/education/ho...acalypterates/

    Leave a comment:


  • LiveFreeOrDie
    replied
    Alright guys, I have a major pest problems. At first I thought I had a nutrient deficiency and went down the treatment list. A few weeks later pests have infested my grow (nut deficiency symptoms have mostly subsided, though) but I'm waiting to flip to flower until I can get it under control. They are winged, but I've also spotted them around the edge of the pot and the bottom of the pot by the drainage holes. I've been treating with Neem oil fairly aggressively until I came across this thread. All of my problems/symptoms point to root aphids.

    There weren't winged versions until recently and they've made there way 2-3 rooms down and infested a houseplant collection (just as winged root aphids do). One generation of the flying stage at least died 5-7 days ago, and today there is a new generation of these flying fuckers.

    I read the first 30 pages of the thread and the last few. There seem to be many complex/overlapping treatment approaches, but before I drop $100+ on this fuckers I'm hoping for help with a positive ID.

    (I also saw the first post suggests it's quite possible (likely even) that I have both... if these aren't flying aphids how should I proceed seeking to further diagnose so I can properly treat prior to flower?)

    I'm hoping they are fungus gnats or something else but after looking at some pictures I can't really tell. What do you think? Please tell me I don't have these monsters.

    Leave a comment:


  • Firecityseeds
    replied
    https://cha.education/2019/07/studyi...r-root-aphids/


    This case study is interesting. I don't know if it was posted already. The summary is that nematodes dont really work very well as a standalone but work much better coupled with beauvaria . Basically the root aphids which werent killed by the fungus were anyway weakened enough by it to become vulnerable to the nematodes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Firecityseeds
    replied
    I was battling these for 3 consecutive grows. I thought it was mag deficiency and was chasing deficiencies until i used a magnifier. Tried 30 min soak of safers , eclipses method, kontos , imid. All knocked them back considerably but none gave 100% kills.

    Decided to go cheap. Bought mosquito dunks. 6 per 5 gallon bucket of water. Came back the next day expecting nothing but was pleasantly surprised by new growth. I keep a routine now. One week mosquito dunks , next week pfr 97 , next week beuvaria, next week nematodes. So far so goood. The acephate, kontos , safrers were all really rough on the girls as well . Has anyone tried flagship? Its rated for root aphids.

    Leave a comment:


  • vidura
    replied
    Adults may or may not have wings. Most of the aphid species also occur in winged forms, especially when populations are high or during spring and fall. Aphids are mostly found on plants in large numbers since they are capable of rapid population increases.
    https://lifeandagri.com/aphids/

    Leave a comment:


  • kalopatchkid
    replied
    BT is useful for fungus gnats but I don’t think it will do anything for Root Aphids.

    There is another product Similar to botanigard but with a different strain of beauveria bassiana called Bioceres Wp. Similar in price to botanigard but approved for use on cannabis in Canada.

    I had root aphids pop up at the beginning of flower last month in my grow shed. Did a botanigard drench, cleaned my floor Really well, then sprayed the floor with Bifen to control any crawlers. Then I put a tangle foot barrier on anything touching the ground including my drip lines. A week later I did a pretty good top dress of beneficial nematodes and watered it in.

    I go out every morning and crawl under my trellis and have not seen any live ones in a few weeks and I’m on day 37 with plants that still looking healthy.

    I did use Imid on some vegging plants that I keep in a separate area and those have still been root aphid free as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Desert Dan
    replied
    Are people truly having success using mosquitoes dunks (BTI) against root aphids?

    I thought I won the war using spectracide soaks, followed by IMID, then botaniguard every 10 days... I was wrong!

    Funny thing is clones I’ve had in solo cups for several weeks are unaffected, only plants in later veg and flower have these fuckers crawling about? All I can think is insufficient contact with botaniguard due to a larger container volume?

    Going to knockdown with pyganic 1.4 at 30ml/gal and hopefully get to harvest.

    -DD

    Leave a comment:


  • Dropped Cat
    replied
    Mosquito chunks are working for me in my coco,
    maybe 10 days since application and am satisfied
    with the results.

    Maybe a few fliers, and the plants are happy.

    Leave a comment:


  • buzzmobile
    replied
    Originally posted by Clayton_Bigsby View Post
    How would i even go about treating a fungal disease?
    Get the fungus gnats under control first. Algae is not the major problem though it does serve as a food source for the gnats.

    Leave a comment:


  • Clayton_Bigsby
    replied
    Originally posted by buzzmobile View Post
    That looks more like an assassin bug. Baby mantids look like miniature versions of adults.
    https://bugoftheweek.squarespace.com...zelus-luridusi

    There may be a fungal disease at work on your plants in addition to the fungus gnat infestation. The gnats can carry phytophthora and fusarium. I have searched for information on fungus gnat resistance to Bti but have not found any.
    This link may provide more information on the use of Gnatrol.
    https://www.redbudsoilcompany.com/bl...t-infestations

    A soap spray will kill adult gnats on contact, but the spray must hit them.
    There is some green algae looking mold in the soil. You can see it on some of the chunks of perlite but its not out of control or anything. I figured it could be attracting the fungus gnats but never considered it could be causing harm itself.

    How would i even go about treating a fungal disease?

    Leave a comment:


  • buzzmobile
    replied
    Originally posted by Clayton_Bigsby View Post
    Also, is this a baby praying mantis? I found him in the room and just let him be.
    That looks more like an assassin bug. Baby mantids look like miniature versions of adults.
    https://bugoftheweek.squarespace.com...zelus-luridusi

    There may be a fungal disease at work on your plants in addition to the fungus gnat infestation. The gnats can carry phytophthora and fusarium. I have searched for information on fungus gnat resistance to Bti but have not found any.
    This link may provide more information on the use of Gnatrol.
    https://www.redbudsoilcompany.com/bl...t-infestations

    A soap spray will kill adult gnats on contact, but the spray must hit them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Clayton_Bigsby
    replied
    So I dug around a little more today before i hit with the Gnatrol and Root and Foliar packs and I found no signs of Root Aphids. Unless they're damn near impossible to spot because I didn't see any bugs other than 1 fungus gnat larva and 1 soil mite.

    Other than that the root systems looked great. The plants look garbage. Im still having a hard time believing Fungus Gnats can cause this much damage. The biggest buds are the size of the top half of my thumb. Looking like I might get a half OZ out of plants I should be pushing 3-4 OZ's from.

    Some of them were extra clones I put in 1 gallon containers so I can understand those giving me a half OZ but even the plants in 3 gallon bags look the same.

    Heres some pics. Like I said, no visual signs of Root Aphids.

    Also, is this a baby praying mantis? I found him in the room and just let him be.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • moses wellfleet
    replied
    The rice root aphid, rhopalosiphum rufiabdominale so named because of the reddish brown abdomen. They can appear to be very dark if they are crawling across a light background.


    Photo credit: Whitney Cranshaw, Colorado state university
    Last edited by moses wellfleet; 10-30-2020, 19:30.

    Leave a comment:


  • imiubu
    replied
    Originally posted by Clayton_Bigsby View Post
    I have a huge fungus gnat problem. I got some gnatrol and hit with 2 teaspoons per gallon twice now. That is the medium infestation application rate. The label says to hit 3 times in 15 days. I already hit twice and the infestation seems worse if anything! My plants are looking terrible and getting worse everyday!

    Im going to hit with the max application rate (3 Teaspoons) tomorrow. I also have some Root and Foliar pack tea brewing for the application tomorrow as well. If this doesn't work. I don't know what else to do.

    Firstly, identify what kind of critters you have as @buzzmobile stated.

    How I learned to control my insects was to first identify then understand them, their life cycle etc...

    Otherwise treating them IME is rather futile.

    Look for photos of both gnats and root aphids and you will see there is a distinct difference in their appearance both in adults and the larvae. Root aphid larvae look like little aphids in the soil/ clustered on roots.

    Gnats look like little white 'worms' with a hard black face. Get your loupe out and have a peak at your soil. Maybe scoop a small amount from under the surface, place into a low container and fill with water? Might cause the larvae to float for better viewing? IDK, just an idea.

    Root aphids only become winged when their food supply is diminishing. They are born female and produce an incredible amount of live female offspring every few days. This is the reason they are so dreaded. And the fact they aren't visible until there is an infestation/ plants failing makes them difficult to identify quickly.

    Once identified choose your weapon of destruction and get to it, unrelentingly!

    Root aphids are a bitch and I'd much rather have gnats or even the borg honestly.

    I've used nematodes for root aphids. They are incredibly efficient and just die off once their food source is decimated. A little on the pricey side though IMO, and it may require several treatments.

    For gnats, I use liquid BTI (Mosquito dunks) or grind up the dunks and top dress/ water in.

    Top dressing with Diatomaceous Earth is effective for the gnats as it cuts up the larvae as they crawl to the top to hatch their wings.
    I would think not so much for the RA.
    However, as previously mentioned bottom water! It's an awful mess when wet and negates the usefulness otherwise.

    Personally, I would never use Imid. But that is my choice. Takes longer to eradicate the RA but I am not putting a systemic treatment into my soil for my meds. A trade off I'm willing to deal with.

    I consider "sticky traps" a monitoring tool and not an effective control tool.
    Let's ya know what bugs are present and at what saturation etc.

    Man, I'm all over the place here haha.
    Hope this is helpful anyway

    OH... Do not forget your IPM! Prevention is so much easier than freaking out on an infestation.
    Again, IMPE.


    Best

    Leave a comment:


  • Clayton_Bigsby
    replied
    Originally posted by moses wellfleet View Post
    Yeah if you have crawlers on the edge of containers then most likely root aphids.
    What are crawlers? I've identified a fly on a yellow stick trap as a fungus gnat but I could have both.

    Whats the best product for root aphids? Im so tired of dealing with this that'll i'll just apply for root aphids and fungus gnats.

    Leave a comment:

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