Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[mickmick1]

that was actually meant for FoCo(No.Co).....as i cant seem to figure out how to PM him

 

[Miraculous Meds]

new user here....ive been scrubbing through this aphid forum and decided to contact you for your advice. i currently have a very small infestation of these bitches.....noticed it when digging up a few seeds that had beautiful taproots going into dirt but they never broke ground. after a few days i dug one up....completely covered in root aphids. i treated immediately with a neem/mosquito plug/tobacco tea concoction. anyway you mentioned playing with this gamma stuff and also had contacted the company but never listed the EXACT product you purchased. would you be willing to share that info?

U need 50 posts for pm priveledges. And I don't know if that member is even active on here anymore.

spectracide triazicide. It's the brand with that contact killer in it. I believe the application rate was 45ml for watering medium, but it tells u on the bottle.

Hot water soaks are supposed to kill them too. U have to be thorough though. If u don't have any great genetics ur going to lose n can't replace, it would be better to clean n sterilize ur room, and start fresh.

 

[Old Fogey]

The fool was talking about "VectoBac WG"...your link is to "VectoBag G"--which I included in my analysis in the following post. Go find online source for Vectbac WG and I will give you a cigar!

[]

 

[Old Fogey]

The question is NOT can you google it....the question--is there an online source for Vectobac WG? Who sells it and how much?

Hard to do a cost analysis without knowing the price. This Vectobac "issue" started with this statement--



And...more or less ended with this statement--



The stuff is not even sold in 5kg tubs--and I question the abnormally low price of $40/kg ($200/5kg)...especially when the formulation is at the high rate of 3000 ITU/mg. It does not make sense.

If something smells like bullshit...then it probably is.

..

 

[Old Fogey]

Did I offend you in a prior life?

My quote and your accompanying rant appear to be 100% disconnected. If I stated unequivocally, that something was available on the internet and you discovered that it wasn't...what would you do? Call me out on it on my bullshit or give me a "thumbs up"?

I called the guy out on his bullshit...if that offends you, then I guess you are one monster sized snowflake that bruises easily!

Well, I'm calling you out for your utter lack of initiative and wit. BTi in WG form is available for those who look in the right places.

Simply put, I'm not wearing the blame for your inadequacies. If you grow like you do your research, you must be a quarter inch deep in ditch weed.

 

[Old Fogey]

Its cool...obviously I hit a nerve.

BTW, I am not the one the chimed in this thread about a product that is not available to purchase on the internet. Standing by my words--"We will have to take your word for it".

I won't be called a liar by you.




Like I said earlier, if your growing skills match your research skills, you must be crap at it and be thoroughly sick of having to smoke rubbish all the time.

 

[DocTim420]

I won't be called a liar by you.

I have blacked out sensitive label information from the following pics, which I took one minute ago of the 5kg tub of BTi WG I purchased for close enough to $200 or 4 cents per gram compared to the $1.50+ per gram I was paying in amounts of 50 grams and sold by a particular grow shop of my acquaintance.

Like I said earlier, if your growing skills match your research skills, you must be crap at it and be thoroughly sick of having to smoke rubbish all the time.

Oh my, let's see what you found and compare that to what you said. First, you stated last December, "Vectobac or the same product under another name can be bought in 5kg tubs for around $200."

I asked if Vectobac WG was available on the internet and we heard nothing but "sounds of silences" from you. Now, about a 100 days later (not 30 seconds) you find an online source in Australia that sells 500 grams for about $128 AUD ($98 USD).

See what happens when we "take your word for it"?...you claim 5kg tubs can be bought for around $200--and about a hundred days later you cough up a link to Australia Ebay selling 0.5kg jars for around $100.

Hmmm 5kg tub vs 0.5kg jar....$200 for 5kg vs $200 for 1kg...huge difference, but if you call that being "truthful", go ahead and run with it.

I will stick to 5 gallon buckets of Mosquito Bits from Amazon--much better deal for BTI.

Maybe in another hundred days or so you might find it on Amazon/Google Shopping...but not yet, here is what Amazon says--

We found 0 results for "vectobac wg"
Use fewer keywords or try these instead

And here is what "google shopping" says--

Your search - vectobac wg - did not match any shopping results.

Suggestions:

Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
Try different keywords.
Try more general keywords.
Try fewer keywords.



Nice try!

 

[Old Fogey]

Oh my, let's see what you found and compare that to what you said. First, you stated last December, "Vectobac or the same product under another name can be bought in 5kg tubs for around $200."

[/B]

Nice try!

I had told you everything you needed to know, already. I dropped into the thread recently and found your posts, the ones written after I'd moved on. I can't believe I'm having to tell somebody this - the internet is bigger than Amazon/Google Shopping.

You can see in my avatar that I don't make a lot of posts. I don't spend my days trolling people on community boards. It's a place for exchanging knowledge and experience. I've submitted mine, you can take it or leave it. I don't care about that.

But I've got to say, you don't appear to pay very close attention to anything. That product is on ebay like you said. It is located in France. If you had looked past your already set position, you might have noted that fact and also that the price is in Euro. At 500 grams for roughly $150 with mail and it is 33 cents a gram. A gram is good for 2 - 2 1/2 gals of drench. It is at the strength of 3000 units like I said. That strength is standard for BTi in this form. I don't buy dunks, but I cannot possibly imagine how they could prove to be cheaper in the long run. I'm certain they are not as effective as BTi in water disolvable/dispersible granules. The product I use is pure. You must be adding a lot of junk into your pots and media etc.

Anyway, some people can find the product in larger quantities. If they look in the right places. It is a biological control agent. It is used as a broad acre drench for mosquitoes. I say it eradicates fungus gnat if used as I've described in earlier posts. But it doesn't prevent fungus gnat coming into the grow area. So don't blame the BTi if you see the odd gnat. It's when you see several gnats in the root area or anywhere really that you know you have a problem and I have not had anything near that level of a problem since I refined my method of use.

But seriously man, the product can be found by anybody looking in the right places. I just wish you didn't insist on putting your bummer on me because your computer says no.

 

[DocTim420]

Dude, you don't get it. You can not backup what you said. It is that simple.

You can try to erase your tracks, but the fact of the matter is---"Vectobac or the same product under another name CAN NOT be bought in 5kg tubs for around $200. (PERIOD)"

The objective here is to find an affordable source of BTI, and my analysis showed that Gnatrol was the lowest cost per $/ITU of BTI at $0.000049123--but you had to buy 16 pounds for $400.

Mosquito Bits came in second at $0.000066073 (20 pounds in a 5 gallon bucket for $120). IF...5kg of Vectobac WG were available at $200 it would have been the winner at 3/4 the cost of Gnatrol....$0.000035651...but as you discovered, 5kg is NOT available for $200, lol.

So, the fool that would have followed your advice and bought the 500gr jar for $100 would be paying $0.000178253 for each ITU. That sir, is almost 3 times more than the cost of Bits. Not a bargain...whether you buy it from Australia (which is the ebay site you had linked before erasing your tracks)...or France. I live in the good ol USA...and like to buy and sell to other Americans.

It is that simple, why pay more for less?

On edit: Here is the AUSTRALIA ebay link you erased: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VECTOBAC-WG-Larvicide-biologique-anti-moustiques-boite-500gr-/181404062899

500 grams for $89.90 Euro, $127.10 AUD = $95.13 USD and is FREE shipping to the states so I rounded up to $100...not the $150 price you calculated, lol.

Dude your research skills suck!

 

[DocTim420]

Repost of my original analysis--for those that care to know the cost for each ITU of BTI--

Don't waste money on pathetic products like Gnatrol, you're getting around 20 cents worth of the active ingredient Bacillus Thuringiensis Israeliensis serotype H14 (BTi) in a bottle that costs $30 or more.

If you live anywhere near mosquitos you should be able to source your BTi in powder form under the trade name Vectobac.

Vectobac or the same product under another name can be bought in 5kg tubs for around $200. BTi in powdered form has a shelf life of 2 years....

Ahhh, the old question, which is heavier: Pound of feathers or a pound of lead?

BTI potency in International Toxic Units (ITU) is what you want to investigate.

Gnatrol: 3000 ITU per mg @ 37.4% BTI
Mosquito Bits: 7000 ITU per mg @ 2.86% BTI
Mosquito Dunks: 7000 ITU per mg @ 10.31% BTI
Vectobac (G,GS,GR): 200 ITU per mg @ 2.8% BTI

To calculate equivalent ITU of BTI for each gram in your product: Multiply ITU number by the percent of Active Ingredient (BTI).

Gnatrol: (3000 X 37.4%) = 1,122 mg
Mosquito Bits: (7000 X 2.86%) = 200.2 mg
Mosquito Dunks: (7000 X 10.31%) = 721.7 mg
Vectobac (G,GS,GR): (200 X 2.8%) = 5.6 mg

To calculate the cost for 1 ITU "unit" requires the price and weight of the product you are comparing.

Gnatrol: 16 lbs for $400....or $0.000049123/ITU of BTI
formula ----> [(3000 X .374) X (16 X 453.59)] / $400
Mosquito Bits: 20 lbs for $120....or $0.000066073/ITU of BTI.
Mosquito Dunks: 20 dunks (3/4 lb) for $20....$0.000081460/ITU of BTI.
Vectobac (G,GS): 40 lbs for $150....$0.001476310/ITU of BTI.

The above list is in the order of cost--lowest first.

I use Mosquito Bits to control fungus gnats, for me it is a question of laying out $400 vs $120 for a bucket of BTI--and ease of use: Bits vs powder.

BTW...BTI does NOT control root aphids.

 

[Medialab12]

Hey, guys!

Long time reader. Solid thread. Maybe you can assist me in identifying the type of aphid these are.
For almost a year and a half, we've never any pests. We spray rounds of pyganic and Monterey a week before flipping and another round the first/second week max. Never any issues. For the last two harvests, I've noticed these damn fliers around the 3rd to 4th week into flower, underneath the leaves and flying from plant to plant. There seems to be multiple stages going on. Last time we took down 2 weeks early due to fear of infestation and this time, we're here again. We have sticky traps on every bucket and this time, they don't seem as loaded as the previous round. This is a sealed room in a garage. Here are some pics. They're not the greatest. I've been monitoring them, plucking infested sugar leaves and fliers every day as we're 2 weeks from chopping.

Since I'm not sure if they're coming from the soil or just flying in from outside, (tons of these things in Denver just in the backayard), we purchased some pfr-97 and neemix 4.5 and will start regular sprays and root drenches for the upcoming girls in veg.

Maybe you guys can tell me what type of aphid this is. These things are relentless little bastards. I fear we may be taking them down a week early if I can't keep up with them spreading.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[GET MO]

Yeah those are root aphids. I heard u could put a potatoe slice on your soil n they will come up to it, never tried it. Depending on what type pot u have u can pull the pot off and examine the roots, look real real close for lil reddish brownish tiny round things on your roots.

 

[Granger2]

Definitely aphids. Not sure they are root aphids. Spray the foliage. Lay 1" thick slices of raw potato on soil surface. Check under side daily for root aphids. Good luck. -granger

 

[Medialab12]

yeah I can't tell if they're from the soil or if they just flew in from outside. I'll have to bust one of the root balls up and see what's going on. I did an ogbiowar foliar pack spray on week 4. Didn't seem to do much. I feel we're just fucked being so late into flower. Less than two weeks from chop. I've been in there every night plucking bad leaves and fliers/crawlers. it all started with a few fliers and bam!! I defoliate pretty hard so mostly just sugar leaves left, and that's where the bastards are for the most part. I guess we have to switch our IPM/IPR game up. Read a lot about pfr97 and their IGR product, neemix. 4.5% Azamax didn't seem to phase them one bit.

I'll try the potatoe slices in the mean time to see if anything surfaces. Thanks for the tips. I'll report back with better pics.

 

[Medfinder]

yup... .
its been raining in socal and this pest is what i swatted down and took a picture 8x

this one came in from outside and it's the beginning
root aphid or fungus gnat?


wonder if someone will say something if i take a hose end chem sprayer full of 50 percent malathion? around the yard?

 

[PriznnPlanet]

Anybody ever burn there plants with bayer fruit citrus and veg? I had these aphid bastards and tossed everything. I received a special cut and did a preventative treatment and fried the hell out of it! What a nob I am sheeez

 

[D3pthCharg3]

yup... .
its been raining in socal and this pest is what i swatted down and took a picture 8x

this one came in from outside and it's the beginning
root aphid or fungus gnat?


wonder if someone will say something if i take a hose end chem sprayer full of 50 percent malathion? around the yard?
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=68583&pictureid=1740724&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Year after year I get Bean Root Aphids in my indoor garden via my outdoor veggie and flower gardens. They will fly onto your arm hairs, and hitch a ride into your dwelling. Once in, forget it...your're in trouble.
Soooo, I have been using a product made by Down to Earth from natural plant oils and yes, it hooks to a garden hose. I have been spraying this outdoors and it has greatly reduced (at least visually) the amount I see. Therefore, reducing my risk of bringing one inside. Bad news is I recently watched a flyer crawl through my windowscreen into the void between glass and window. They can penetrate windowscreen! That bastard was shortly thereafter eaten by a small jumping spider that was lying in wait using that area as a hunting ground.
Thanks spider.

 

[Sativan]

These root parasites can really knock the health right out of the ladies. Where do all these pests keep coming from?

I used MicrobeLift and neem oil and 3 days later the majority have been terminated but there are some persistent little crawlers that I'm still treating.

I'd prefer to used biological controls but I don't have that much cash at the moment.

 

[DocTim420]

These root parasites can really knock the health right out of the ladies. Where do all these pests keep coming from?

I used MicrobeLift and neem oil and 3 days later the majority have been terminated but there are some persistent little crawlers that I'm still treating.

I'd prefer to used biological controls but I don't have that much cash at the moment.

And you know, Microbelift is a not the most affordable source for BTi and offers zero "time release".

 

[bigbadbiddy]

Just to give some feedback:

After posting here and elsewhere, trying out a large variety of solutions, I am finally gnat free.

Here's what was wrong on my end and why no solution seemed to work:
I basically had a twofold problem.
1) I was adding Canna Bio Rhyzotonic to my "supersoil". This must have oversoured my soil at some point and led to all kinds of nute deficiencies and combined with
2) Overwatering, led to root-rot and the gnats thriving, no matter what else I was trying.

For example nematodes and BTI couldn't do much with the oversoured and overwatered soil.


I think the main problem was the Canna Bio Rhizotonic. I thought it couldn't harm but since I started PHing my water and leaving out the Bio Rhizo and Bio Boost, the gnats have disappeared and the plants have done much better.

Was in the middle of resetting my setup before I could confirm it so I will finish my reset and try again without additives after.

Will also get an R/O filter to relieve my plants from the shitty tab water I have and dispose of the soil I used in the first 2 rounds and start with a fresh batch of soil.

Should be alright again after.



Conclusion (at least for me):
No additional nutrients in supersoil or only in the tiniest dosage (I went half strength of what Canna suggested and it ruined everything still).
While all the solutions here have merit, they did nothing for me as I simply ruined my soil with added nutes and from there, the plants, especially their roots, were unable to become strong enough and resist the gnats.
The solutions might still have worked if I had made a bed of diatomaceous earth to plug the drainage holes and nut just spread it over the top layer of the soil.
But then I likely would have not discovered that I simply ruined the soil by adding additional root stimulant.
All the while spending time and much cash to acquire great and suitable mycos ...

Best of luck to all in fighting the good fight. Hope my experience can help someone.