Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[spleebale]

On Mosquito dunks: though they are Bti, mosquito dunks are only about 10% Bti toxins and are pretty low-mass. As far as I can tell, if root aphids are susceptible to Bti, it is only VERY slightly (compared with gnats) and require HIGH doses of Bti to achieve control. Even powdered Gnatrol (which I believe to be far more potent and cost effective than mosquito dunks) is not very efficient for this purpose: berger who suggested it as an eradication method said he used 4g/gal... this makes using powdered gnatrol about $1/gal of mix (buying 224g on Ebay for $50 w/ shipping)... if you have a big system and you plan on using it at the regular consistency berger suggested for eradication, this simply is not cost-effective.

Vectobac (liquid) for $150/2.5 gal, however, used at 20 mL/gal (equivalent to berger's suggested 4g/gal of powdered Gnatrol) is only $.31/gal - less than 1/3 the price if you throw down the $150 - unless you only use about 5 gal a week and only plan to use Bti for one round, liquid Vectobac or liquid Gnatrol are the ONLY cost effective way to throw Bti at this problem. (Search first post for link to purchase Vectobac)

 

[humble1]

if Bti worked for root aphids don't you think there would be more positive responses.
it's much more likely that he had fungus gnats and misdiagnosed or the aphids didn't like how dry he lets his coco get.

 

[skoobie dew]

root aphid

root aphid

They only fly during the winter. You can use predatory nematodes some strains of root aphid can be completely destroyed using nematodes

If that doesn't work you might want to use merit, or the bayer tree and shrub stuff. It works, but you have to hit all of your plants at once. And possibly multiple applications. This is nasty stuff, but i have seen it work multiple times. I highly recommend trying predatory nematodes first. It usually works.

 

[sneakinman13]

hey there.. sooooo. like many of you i belive i have these fucks! but i havent found any.. just noticing yellowing and rust on some leaves... so my question isss to FOCO...

im at week 5 flower. almost week 6. and it seems like now its worse then ever. can i usethis spectracide?!?! if so. do i just add normally to to plain water , then just water???
i have no fliers .. but i kno it has to be thiss!

thanks

 

[o.sparkles]

hey there.. sooooo. like many of you i belive i have these fucks! but i havent found any.. just noticing yellowing and rust on some leaves... so my question isss to FOCO...

im at week 5 flower. almost week 6. and it seems like now its worse then ever. can i usethis spectracide?!?! if so. do i just add normally to to plain water , then just water???
i have no fliers .. but i kno it has to be thiss!
thanks

Don't assume. You may have a Fusarium or leaf rust fungus.

 

[Neo 420]

hey there.. sooooo. like many of you i belive i have these fucks! but i havent found any.. just noticing yellowing and rust on some leaves... so my question isss to FOCO...

Do you have a microscope? Imo you need at least a 30x. Check the roots or medium with the microscope. I never seen any flyers or juvies in my garden but these microscopic ones were there. Would of never known if it wasn't for this thread. But you do need to self confirm if you have RA before acting or treating the ladies.

 

[sneakinman13]

no i dont have a microscope. but i do have a jewelers magnifier... im gonna try to look tommorow..

 

[smokesalot420]

Another way to check if or what bug you have is putting sticky traps that are cut in quarters on the soil surface. Just lay it on top of the soil (sticky side UP of course) and wait. I do this to help prevent/fight fungus gnats as well.

 

[Fat J]

Yeah, don't treat until you know what youre dealing with - jumping to conclusions can cost you everything.

 

[caljim]

On Mosquito dunks: though they are Bti, mosquito dunks are only about 10% Bti toxins and are pretty low-mass. As far as I can tell, if root aphids are susceptible to Bti, it is only VERY slightly (compared with gnats) and require HIGH doses of Bti to achieve control. Even powdered Gnatrol (which I believe to be far more potent and cost effective than mosquito dunks) is not very efficient for this purpose: berger who suggested it as an eradication method said he used 4g/gal... this makes using powdered gnatrol about $1/gal of mix (buying 224g on Ebay for $50 w/ shipping)... if you have a big system and you plan on using it at the regular consistency berger suggested for eradication, this simply is not cost-effective.

Vectobac (liquid) for $150/2.5 gal, however, used at 20 mL/gal (equivalent to berger's suggested 4g/gal of powdered Gnatrol) is only $.31/gal - less than 1/3 the price if you throw down the $150 - unless you only use about 5 gal a week and only plan to use Bti for one round, liquid Vectobac or liquid Gnatrol are the ONLY cost effective way to throw Bti at this problem. (Search first post for link to purchase Vectobac)

Good heads up on the Vectobac.

I only have Gnats and...

The Gnatrol WDG is doing it for me at 7grams/gal (heavy infestation),
backed up with a 2% pyrethrin spray on the coco surface after the gnatrol drench.

Reduced flier populations by better than 75% in my coco in 4 days, but at 80.00 a pound online it's a little pricey....but dirt cheap compared to the recent losses I've experienced.

I found a national green house supplier in my area has 16 pound tubs of the Gnatrol WDG for $397, now thats bringing the per cost application way down and it has a two year shelf life. I think the Liquid is only 1 year.

I just have gnats and this is working for me.

 

[sneakinman13]

i dont plan on using it without finding out first... im just trying to figure out if i could use the product in 5th week of bloom if i needed to. thanks

 

[spleebale]

Sneakin:I am pretty sure Spectracide Triazicide (Gamma Cyhalothrin) it is not a systemic, so it should be fine to use in bloom (though I would not use it more than 20 days before harvest as a general precaution). There are different types of Spectracide (that is just the brand) so make sure you get Traizicide. People have used anywhere from 7-15 mL/gal. I believe I have tried it at about 10 mL/gal. My infestation was not bad and I was in soil, so I was not able to assess its efficacy, but it didn't seem to hurt the ladies. Good luck.

-WB

 

[sneakinman13]

thanks alot spleebale.. thats exactly the information i was curious about.

take it easy

is this the stuff

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1378699&CAWELAID=202839699

 

[BigSwifty]

Good heads up on the Vectobac.

I only have Gnats and...

The Gnatrol WDG is doing it for me at 7grams/gal (heavy infestation),
backed up with a 2% pyrethrin spray on the coco surface after the gnatrol drench.

I wouldn't bother with the pyrethrins for gnats. They really seem pretty immune to that shit, moreso than the root aphids. My pyrethrum drenches seemed to wipe out all of the root aphids and flying root aphids, but the fungus gnats are still there. I suppose that won't be around much longer after I bring the nematodes in tomorrow.

 

[OrganicMonkey]

I've seen these bastards around, but I also have spiders and lady bugs to give them a good time!

 

[spleebale]

Sneakin - yes, it is. I used the liquid version, though. AS long as the granules dissolve fine they should work just as well, and they don't have the nasty solvent the liquid comes dissolved in, so that is a plus. You will need to adjust the dosage for granules, however. The liquid is .25% GCH.

 

[spleebale]

Expert: thank you VERY much for your post! This is exactly the sort of info I am hoping to compile on these pests. This sort of data helps FAR more than back-and-forth about whether pyrethrum or azidarachtin was or was not effective.

In the long run we desperately need to find out how to control these pests without the heavy use of chemicals or expensive control measures. I figure that running away from them is not a real option for me, as it just takes one aphid to start it all up again - and it seems like one could easily come in from outside at any time.

I have also gotten the distinct impression that soil and organics are less hospitable to these pests than coco, rockwool or hydroton with chem nutes. I was thinking more along the lines that soil tend to dry out more, and aphids seem to rely on a moist root zone. More recently I am thinking there is more to it, however. My last coco round did very well and the plants I have given to a buddy are probably going to be his best round yet - and he is in coco as well. I do not believe he lets his dry that thoroughly and I know that my last round in coco stayed wet most the time. He does, however, use AACTs with his grow (Actively Aerated Compost Teas) and he has gone far more toward the organic route as well, dramatically reducing his usage of chem nutes (base nutrient).

I have speculated several things about this. Please note that all the following are untested hypotheses - pure speculation at this point.

A)Chem ferts probably hurt open wounds on roots. - This means that the more you have aphids munching, the worse it is burning the lesions in your plant roots (rubbing salt in an open wound). Using organic-based nutes with a fresh dose of super-active beneficials (as you tend to get in tea) supplies the plant plenty of food without harming the wounds.

B)There are components of most soil and/or complex organic brews that are harmful to or act as a deterrent to root aphids. (I know the tea my buddy was buying from the grow store had nematodes in it - probably as insect control.) There are also many pathogens (mostly fungal I think) that bugs can be susceptible to - perhaps these tend to exist to some extent in soil or AACTs.

C)AACTs help to repair root damage, which is the worst aspect of aphid infestation.


--------------------
Expert: if you are not noticing any aphids AT ALL in plants in re-used soil which are exposed to others in coco that have aphids, that seems to suggest that the soil itself is not inviting, but we should not jump to conclusions - if you did regular applications of neem and spinosad to your soil, it is likely that alone is the cause.

Please post more on what you have found out, EVERYONE.

Thanks,
WB

 

[Fat J]

I'm still good - imid'd everything... still no more ra (3 weeks later) and no visible ill effects.

***knock on wood***

 

[sneakinman13]

well i found the liquid concentrate of the stuff..
gonna add 10ml next watering. thanks.

 

[grin]

I did a soil drench with imid about a week ago, and nothing has been moving around the soil since. All fliers are gone, but since I'm in soil, I can't tell what is going on in the roots.

My question is how long does this stuff last in the soil? Will I be able to start repopulating my microbeastie population now?