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Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

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    you test it on your plants, buddy.
    all i know is that low DO is bad.
    I wouldn't let my DWC girls go 10 minutes without air.....
    Originally posted by Classyathome
    Crips and Bloods ain't got nuthin' on Moses, Mohammed and Jesus.
    "Stealth Hamsters don't exist, do they?"

    Comment


      Thanks buddy, my plants are currently under control but if they become heavily infested again I will certainly consider it.

      I have seen a few posters give up and scrap their whole grow. Maybe before destroying their plants they could consider trying soap soaks of various lengths to see if they kill the plants or not, in the name of advancing real knowledge.

      Comment


        I may just do that as I have a purple kush that is looking like it's no longer getting nutes, I think they have eaten her roots all up!

        Give me a couple days and I will report back with results.....
        My 800W CMH 400W HPS Multi-Strain Perpetual Grow
        http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=111138




        I get coughin fits when I take fat ass hits from my bong!!!!

        Comment


          Originally posted by humble1 View Post
          you test it on your plants, buddy.
          all i know is that low DO is bad.
          I wouldn't let my DWC girls go 10 minutes without air.....
          Originally posted by Leonard NeemOil View Post
          Thanks buddy, my plants are currently under control but if they become heavily infested again I will certainly consider it.

          I have seen a few posters give up and scrap their whole grow. Maybe before destroying their plants they could consider trying soap soaks of various lengths to see if they kill the plants or not, in the name of advancing real knowledge.
          You could build a "container dunk bubbler"; rubbermaid tub + 2 airstones + air pump= pesticide bubbler.

          Just let it bubble for a few hours prior to dunking for several minutes. Might work, eh? Trying it sounds significantly less costly than scraping your entire grow anyway.
          sigpic
          "We're down with chillin, not killin... knaw what I'm sayyyn?"

          Comment


            Originally posted by humble1 View Post
            nematodes are most certainly not insects.
            phylum Nematoda, actually.
            good luck getting up a sizable population before the root aphids take over!
            pyrethrins do work.
            you need to dunk the whole rooting medium of each and every plant for ~15 seconds so the pyrethrins can permeate.
            then you need to repeat in 3-4 days to break their breeding cycle.
            then you need to repeat in about a week in case of any dormant, unaffected aphids.
            and again in 3-4 days.
            meanwhile you should be sterilizing your room and changing your intake filter.
            mind you, this only applies to indoor containerized grows.
            otherwise imid is it.
            I repeat: Pyrethrins do not work against these. I completely submerged them in pyrethrins, and, as I said, they swam out and walked away. Did nothing to them Waste of time.

            Comment


              I have seen this thread pop up several times and never read it because I never had issue with these chumps. Well being bored the article popped up on the new post thingy and I decided to read it. I read 2 pages and said to myself I better do a "real" check. I took my 20 or 30 mag scope and check out buds and stalks and said to myself " Not me. Mot a issue I have." I then read more post. Something started to nag at me. I do show mag def and said I better check with my 60- 100 mag scope (thanks to the advice in a thread I read here. Radio Shack!!) I put the scope directly on top of the rockwool and I saw one. I almost fainted and started to cry. I ran back to my comp and read every page of the this thread. I am in the 5th week of flower. I see no wing creatures. Just the little ones in the rockwool. Transparent and with 2 antennas in the rear. I am going to buy sprectacide in about 15 20 mins. Any other advice? I plan on running the 7mil per gallon like NorCal said. I am so lucky to catch this early ( I hope). I PM'ed NorCal ( because I have hydro like him and will run through the rez) for advice but I need some NOW so I can buy what I need and put this nightmare behind me..
              :(

              Comment


                Originally posted by RetroGrow View Post
                I repeat: Pyrethrins do not work against these. I completely submerged them in pyrethrins, and, as I said, they swam out and walked away. Did nothing to them Waste of time.
                so you tried it once.
                not over and over again as per instructions?
                i wonder why it didn't work then......
                Originally posted by Classyathome
                Crips and Bloods ain't got nuthin' on Moses, Mohammed and Jesus.
                "Stealth Hamsters don't exist, do they?"

                Comment


                  Since I clearly asked for far too much information in far too many places, here is a questionnaire I ask that everyone please fill out if you have root aphids, phantom "magnesium/potassium lockout/deficiency" symptoms, or both.

                  1)Do you have root aphids? (if so please answer A-D)
                  A)Do they look like any of the bugs pictured/linked in the first post? ("crabs" "tank beetles" "micros" or "psulloxera"? - use at least 10X magnification to see. If not, describe. Post a pic if possible!
                  B)Do you have/have you had fliers (winged version)? - Do they look like the two pictured at the top of the first post, or like the "Tank Beetle" fliers pictured here: http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/50...4mass0bugs.jpg (note the two winged creatures in the pic: one looks just like the Tank Beetles but with wings [round, beetle-like aphid] and the other has a banded abdomen and looks like a bee. Call the "Tank Beetle" fliers "Tank Fliers" and the bee-like creatures "bee-bugs" - I am assuming the latter is not aphids, but let us know what you have either way)
                  C)Have you noticed a waxy residue in the medium, on and around roots?
                  D)Have you tried any control methods/substances? What has and has not worked?

                  2)Do you have nutrient lockout/deficiency symptoms? (if so please answer A-B)
                  A)Do the symptoms seem to be connected to/tied to root aphid population?
                  B)Do they look like magnesium or potassium deficiency? (Intervenal chlorosis, little blotches of tan, necrotic tissue form in between veins and at leaf tips/margins, then spread and take over leaf edges and tips?)

                  3)What is your grow setup like? (closet/room, high air exchange vs. closed w/ CO2)
                  4)What medium/method do you do? (5-gal soil bags?/16 plants in NFT per 600W?/Bubble buckets w/ hydroton?)
                  5)What nutrient line do you use? (recipe/ppms?)
                  6)Do you foliar-spray your plants? What do you spray with? pH of spray?

                  Thank you!

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by spleebale View Post
                    Since I clearly asked for far too much information in far too many places, here is a questionnaire I ask that everyone please fill out if you have root aphids, phantom "magnesium/potassium lockout/deficiency" symptoms, or both.
                    Originally posted by spleebale

                    1)Do you have root aphids? (if so please answer A- )
                    Yes
                    Originally posted by spleebale

                    A)Do they look like any of the bugs pictured/linked in the first post? ("crabs" "tank beetles" "micros" or "psulloxera"? - use at least 10X magnification to see. If not, describe. Post a pic if possible!
                    Yes, under a 10x loupe I have clear tank beetles and when dead on the floor there are black ones of the same but larger
                    Originally posted by spleebale

                    B)Do you have fliers (winged version)? [have you ever seen them]
                    yes but very few since I have been battling them. I was able to view them under 10x and see the clear difference between them and fungus gnats
                    Originally posted by spleebale

                    C)Have you noticed a waxy residue in the medium, on and around roots?
                    No I haven't but have noticed brown mushy roots in first few mm of soil
                    Originally posted by spleebale

                    D)Have you tried any control methods/substances? What has and has not worked?
                    First spray was floromite and azamax and a second spray with the dont bug me pyreth. 4 days later had dead bugs everywhere. When this method was tried later with an azamax drench, no dead were seen. I don't know if this is due to decreased numbers or something else. Recently io used Bayer tree and shrub with imid. I can't find any bugs on smaller plants but my largest still have the little clear ones running around in the soil
                    Originally posted by spleebale

                    2)Do you have nutrient lockout/deficiency symptoms? (if so please answer A- )
                    Yes
                    Originally posted by spleebale

                    A)Do they seem to be connected to/tied to root aphid population?
                    absolutely
                    Originally posted by spleebale

                    B)Do they look like magnesium or potassium deficiency? (Intervenal chlorosis, little blotches of tan, necrotic tissue form in between veins and at leaf tips/margins, then spread and take over leaf edges and tips?)
                    that and nutrient burn/deficiency
                    Originally posted by spleebale

                    3)What is your grow setup like? (closet/room, high air exchange vs. closed w/ CO2)
                    Room, high air exchange, 80 degrees 29% RH
                    Originally posted by spleebale

                    4)What medium/method do you do? (5-gal soil bags?/16 plants in NFT per 600W?/Bubble buckets w/ hydroton?)
                    In sunshine mix34 and earthworm castings in beer cup to 15 gallon containers 2000w
                    Originally posted by spleebale

                    5)What nutrient line do you use? (recipe/ppms?)
                    General Organics normal feeding schedule
                    Originally posted by spleebale

                    6)Do you foliar-spray your plants? What do you spray with? pH of spray?
                    besides pesticides I spray with a kelp mix PH of 6.4
                    Originally posted by spleebale

                    Thank you!
                    No! Thank you for the work you're putting in

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by spleebale View Post
                      questionnaire I ask that everyone please fill out if you have root aphids, phantom "magnesium/potassium lockout/deficiency" symptoms, or both.

                      1)Do you have root aphids?
                      YES
                      A)Do they look like any of the bugs pictured/linked in the first post? Small black and green aphids, 2 cornicles on their back as seen thru 30x magnification
                      B)Do you have fliers (winged version)? A small amount But no longer seen since treating with the Imid
                      C)Have you noticed a waxy residue in the medium, on and around roots? Yes, some plants more then others

                      D)Have you tried any control methods/substances?

                      What did NOT work?
                      Neem oil (foliar and soil drench)
                      Gnatrol
                      Zero Tolerance (Foliar and soil drench-soil drench killed plants)
                      SM-90 soil drench (did not keep submerged, will try this for 5 minutes and see plants response)


                      What might have worked? Rotating the following depending on what stage they my plants are in:
                      Bayer Fruit, Citris and Vegatable w/ Imid at 6ml per gallon as a soil drench (1 time application only! during flip or veg phase)
                      Azamax/Azatrol at med-high dilution rate as a soil drench (2 applications at 10 day interval)
                      Pyrethrum TR bomb (2 applications to eliminate fliers at 2 week interval)

                      2)Do you have nutrient lockout/deficiency symptoms? YES
                      A)Do the symptoms seem to be connected to/tied to root aphid population? YES
                      B)Do they look like magnesium or potassium deficiency? BOTH

                      3)What is your grow setup like? 8 x 5 x 8 Secret Jardin tent (600w HPS and 2 400w vertical CMHs)

                      4)What medium/method do you do? Various sized soil containers, 5 gal- 3 gallon containers

                      5)What nutrient line do you use? Botanicare Cal/Mag and Liquid Karma, Humbolt nutes (master A and B), Super Thrive, Rhizotonic, Hygrozyme

                      6)Do you foliar-spray your plants? Foliar feed 2x in veg, Neem + SM-90 foliar in veg and 1st week of flower; Sulfur burn 3x during flower (3rd, 4th and 5th week of flower)


                      I will take pics of the Purple Kush plant that I am going to do the soil root drench with tomorrow.... Plant has been vegging for a couple months so it hurts to let it go as anyone who has grown these know how slow of veggers these things are

                      Oh well, looks like I will have lost 2 purple kush, an odyssey and a cheese plant to these but I caught them at the winged stage so if that's all I lose I will be thankful. Last year I lost everything to either the aphids or the treatments so it's a big improvement and hopefully we're learning how to proactively take care of these things.

                      I am now incorporating the Bayer (Imid) treatment along with my floramite (at different times during veg) and Neem so hopefully I will be covered in all respects now!
                      Last edited by smokesalot420; 03-11-2010, 02:54. Reason: deleted portion on accident
                      My 800W CMH 400W HPS Multi-Strain Perpetual Grow
                      http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=111138




                      I get coughin fits when I take fat ass hits from my bong!!!!

                      Comment


                        I also bought Ortho ecosense insecticidal soap. States can be used to the day of harvest. Any info on this product?
                        :(

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by spleebale View Post
                          Since I clearly asked for far too much information in far too many places, here is a questionnaire I ask that everyone please fill out if you have root aphids, phantom "magnesium/potassium lockout/deficiency" symptoms, or both.

                          1)Do you have root aphids? (if so please answer A-D) I believe so.
                          A)Do they look like any of the bugs pictured/linked in the first post? ("crabs" "tank beetles" "micros" or "psulloxera"? - use at least 10X magnification to see. If not, describe. Post a pic if possible! I don't have a lense, and my eyes aren't good enough for 100% identification but the symptoms fit perfectly.
                          B)Do you have/have you had fliers (winged version)? - Do they look like the two pictured at the top of the first post, or like the "Tank Beetle" fliers pictured here: http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/50...4mass0bugs.jpg (note the two winged creatures in the pic: one looks just like the Tank Beetles but with wings [round, beetle-like aphid] and the other has a banded abdomen and looks like a bee. Call the "Tank Beetle" fliers "Tank Fliers" and the bee-like creatures "bee-bugs" - I am assuming the latter is not aphids, but let us know what you have either way) Yes
                          C)Have you noticed a waxy residue in the medium, on and around roots? No
                          D)Have you tried any control methods/substances? What has and has not worked? Neem Oil, Azamax, Nematodes, Spectracide, Gnatrol, Pyrethrins. The neem, azamax and spectracide seemed like they helped a little bit, but I couldn't keep using neem. Couldn't afford more azamax. Spectracide might be helping, but not nearly enough to avoid nute lock out. Gnatrol did nothing. Pyrethrins did nothing.

                          2)Do you have nutrient lockout/deficiency symptoms? (if so please answer A-B)
                          A)Do the symptoms seem to be connected to/tied to root aphid population? Yes
                          B)Do they look like magnesium or potassium deficiency? (Intervenal chlorosis, little blotches of tan, necrotic tissue form in between veins and at leaf tips/margins, then spread and take over leaf edges and tips?) Yes

                          3)What is your grow setup like? (closet/room, high air exchange vs. closed w/ CO2) 2600w flowering, tents, normal exchange, 80F, 30% RH
                          4)What medium/method do you do? (5-gal soil bags?/16 plants in NFT per 600W?/Bubble buckets w/ hydroton?) 7 gal, Organic soil, 4 per light.
                          5)What nutrient line do you use? (recipe/ppms?) FF peace of mind, BioCanna, Liquid Karma, Honey ES, super thrive, and some what ever's laying around. As they ask for it.
                          6)Do you foliar-spray your plants? What do you spray with? pH of spray? Did once this round. With some cannaboost. Didn't PH. Just had the bottle sitting around, gave it a little kick but nothing special.

                          Thank you!
                          thank you.
                          ..........

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by humble1 View Post
                            so you tried it once.
                            not over and over again as per instructions?
                            i wonder why it didn't work then......
                            Hey bro, I had those bastards in a shot glass, and submerged them in pyrethrins. They did the back stroke and climbed out and walked away. On the other hand, I did the Imid drench, and they were all dead in moments. So, I say again, with all respect, pyrethrins do not kill these things, and neither do other "normal" insecticides that you might have around. That's why they are so nasty and dangerous. If people want to waste their time and money on stuff that doesn't work, that is their business.
                            The key to killing them is Imid.
                            Period.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by RetroGrow View Post
                              So, I say again, with all respect, pyrethrins do not kill these things, and neither do other "normal" insecticides that you might have around. ......
                              The key to killing them is Imid.
                              Period.
                              I agree with you that imid is the way to go. However, with all due respect, you did not follow the directions. I have used pyrethrins successfully and it is a long and arduous process. I only recommend it for the obsessive hippies who don't use poison or for folks that are too far into flower to use imid safely.
                              One application is not hardly enough.
                              Adults are resistant to pyrethrins, but not immune, and it severely hinders their reproductive cycle which is the key to ending an infestation without real poison.
                              Originally posted by Classyathome
                              Crips and Bloods ain't got nuthin' on Moses, Mohammed and Jesus.
                              "Stealth Hamsters don't exist, do they?"

                              Comment


                                I have ran the sprecta for 20 min thru the drip and poured over each cube 2 gallons. Now do I run a lower PPM nute mix now? Or should I let them dry? There lights off in 40 minutes. Then send a new batch of nutes to them first thing daylight?
                                :(

                                Comment

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