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    Originally posted by SuperBadGrower View Post
    So what saddens me is the ultra quality that was there, but I seem to have lost. I think the genetics were fine because the smell honest to god kicked my ass. Like "yes please I will take 50 grams of that". I didn't smoke any for weeks because I wanted to wait for the cure.
    I would look at 64% being too high RH for long term storage. Personally, I've found the hydration rate nearly perfect when the cannabis is just barely too damp to keep a joint lit well. In areas where the RH is 20-30%, the cannabis is perfectly dry for smoking in a joint, just about the time you finish rolling it.

    I shoot for between 55 and 60% RH in my jars.

    The other aspect may be something I heard Kevin Jodrey mention, which is a reference to organic cannabis holding the smell longer, something to do with terpene retention. Personally, I've had amazing cannabis for years in the jars and it's all hydro. I'm thinking it's tied to how the plant was grown, but not necessarily organic or refined mineral as the main variable.
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      Hey Douglas, do you still get good smells at 55-60% RH?
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        much food for thought here from recent posts
        i'll agree on staleness appearing in cured jars, at least sometimes
        i've found some bud to stay quite nice in a jar, others less so
        one thing than can change this is transferring to smaller jars
        less air can help quite a bit
        current grow: www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=7872194

        Comment


          70 degrees is higher than optimum, would explain why it seems ready in 7 days.
          55-60 for temp and humidity works best for drying and storage.


          Genetics could likely be contributing to lack of smell. Auto’s have ruderalis in them.
          Ruderalis by itself looks like a million bucks, frosty as hell, bag appeal for days.

          Ruderalis has an almost non existent camphor smell, extremely faint. Zero flavor. And no detectable buzz. Grew ten Ruderalis years ago to try them out.

          It’s unlikely the commercial or imports you see are Auto’s, which is why you are more impressed with them.

          Ruderalis has its place, it probably has something useful medically in it. It’s selling point for breeders is the ability to autoflower, period.

          There may be worthwhile ruderalis hybrids im unfamiliar with due to my early experience growing straight ruderalis.

          However, my interest in cannabis lies in the psychoactive effects and terpenes.

          So unless you are actively trying to create something useful with ruderalis, I would consider that using ruderalis is like peeing or pooping in the gene pool to dilute otherwise useful genetics.

          Comment


            Thanks so much everyone for the thoughts & input I really appreciate it.

            It's really interesting what you wrote here THC123, the vacuum and freezer methods have piqued my interest. Something makes me think that a lot of weed I get here has been freezer cured (sublimation if I remember correctly).

            I think I prefer my weed on the dry side. I wonder which method is best for that.

            Originally posted by burmese View Post
            hi superbadgrower, i think that problem is in shortness of drying,,, istnt 7 days too short for drying by 20Celsius?
            That's been on my mind the most. I think, after day 7, I deemed it ready for jarring, but the RH shot up to 70% quite quickly. Then, they were possibly in too high of a humidity for too long, although they smelled great during this period. I just followed the instructions and took stuff out of the jars occasionally until it reached 64-65% inside.

            Originally posted by burmese View Post
            //nothing bad to you, but from info from you here//
            Don't worry man I am just a beginner. This is the best forum with so many experienced growers. I'd never be offended. (I'll be the first to call my weed shit)


            I've also read about a trash bag method where someone would let their plant hang dry until the outside got crispy, then they would put loosely tie trash bags around bundles of sticks and let the outside bud get moist again. Then remove the trash bag to dry and put them back on again. Kind of like a hang-dry simulation of jar burping with a wet-dry cycle.

            I wish there was a hard science about this. Surely there is, somewhere. These guys here are harvesting thousands of plants every month. But they probably have access to industrial equipment. My third harvest is coming up in 2 weeks and I will continue reading and investigating until that time. I think I will remove fan leaves and do a dry trim when the sugar leaves snap off easily to ensure that I don't jar it up too moist, assuming I will use jars.
            3 out of 3 germinated!!! Fantastic strain! 5 Stars.

            Comment


              Then you should go for the vacuum cure or the freezer method.

              You can PM me for details because this thread is about Simon's method and I don't want to Hijack the thread. Come to think of it, I also have a thread dedicated to the freezer method in this section somehere, you can also post your questions there because I don't think you can PM under 50 posts.

              I encourage you to divide your harvest in different batches and then try different methods so you have a reference, a side by side to help in your decision. Like I said I alays use multiple methods just to have variation. I am also jar curing now so it is not like I have something against jars, I just don't think it is the best method for me and my favorite strains combined with my preferred consumption method. Cannabis needs to be at different points for smoking pure, smoking with tobacco or vaping. The method of consumption thus influences the perfect moisture level for your cannabis combined with the strain you are using.

              If I was smoking pure I would use the jar an vacuum method and then after some time I would freeze my cannabis to keep it at a perfect point. But I am a vaper mostly so I mostly freeze it at a certain wow point during hang drying without a real cure maybe just a quick sweat. Mind you I always have big outdoor and greenhouse harvests so I have to keep my weed tasty LONG TERM that is why I use the freezer. Because I vape I always do a short cure to retain the fresh terpenes. Aged cannabis sucks for vaping taste and effect wise.

              If you still want to test jar curing I would just leave the sugar leaves on during the cure and just remove them before smoking. This way you have a larger margin for error as the terpenes will be better retained and also the stickyness.
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                Originally posted by igrowone View Post
                one thing than can change this is transferring to smaller jars
                less air can help quite a bit
                That's funny, I did just that the other day. I wanted to get less air and try to get the buds danking up that way. A lot of the guides recommend to leave enough air in the jars but I've come to think it is nonsense. I haven't had mold issues and I regularly use this as a general indicator for jars, my house, whatever: http://www.dpcalc.org/

                There was enough air in my jars for the buds to roll around and be moved about.

                Maybe packing it tighter when you are free from mold risk is better.

                Originally posted by redlaser View Post
                70 degrees is higher than optimum, would explain why it seems ready in 7 days.
                55-60 for temp and humidity works best for drying and storage.
                Thanks, I will try to achieve a better temperature too. I have read that terpenes are lost into the air at 70.

                Originally posted by redlaser View Post
                (About autoflowers and ruderalis)
                Man, I completely, totally agree with you. And I think this is valuable information for many people. This bud I am discussing here is actually a photoperiod with genetics that I would judge as quite good. After the autoflower, my first grow, I vowed I will never grow that again (to each their own. I'm sure there are better auto genetics). These Critical beat the autos in every aspect except after they started losing their smell. The autos smelled like nothing and could be grown without carbon filter, but developed an amazing sweet scent in the jar.

                Sorry for double posting. I can't edit my posts (yet?) or mark your guys' posts as helpful (yet?) which they all have really been.
                3 out of 3 germinated!!! Fantastic strain! 5 Stars.

                Comment


                  Fresh cut grass smell is different than hay smell, one is green and one is decomposing. Fresh cut grass smell is from freshly cut material and will go away shortly, Hay smell after drying is caused by improper drying and is a result of anaerobic fermentation.

                  Drying/curing is an aerobic process, The plant itself consumes chlorophyll through metabolic activity after it's been cut. Keeping stomatas open and facilitating gas exchange the plant is broken down through respiration and hydrolysis. You want to keep oxygen present so that aerobic bacteria can keep anaerobic bacteria levels in check until the buds are below a homogeneous 15% moisture content, at which point most strains of bacteria will not grow.

                  when this isnt allowed to occur it starts to ferment. Nitrogen, sugars, cellulose, starch etc breaking down anaerobically with the high moisture content causing fermentation. This releases ammonia (essentially formed from the nitrates not breaking down properly) and acids giving the foul odor. The most likely culprit of the hay smell is Staphylococcus Lugdenensis, which are facilitive anaerobes, meaning they can survive through aerobic respiration or switch to fermentation in anaerobic environments. In aerobic mode, their only byproducts are CO2 and water, but once they consume all the O2 in their immediate environment, they switch to fermentation mode and start producing exotoxins. You want to keep them well fed with O2 (air circulation) so they stay in aerobic respiration mode.

                  Trimming wet after harvest/before hanging reduces the surface area and moisture level in/on plants and branches reducing the possibility for mold to colonize when hanging/drying (and its easier/faster, no crispy shrunken bud leafs).

                  Originally posted by qwizoking View Post
                  I trim a couple dozen lbs every 2 weeks and never had a mowed lawn in the room.

                  heres what i do:

                  Trim wet, rh ~60%, decent airflow ~500cfm, no light, temps 65-73°f, Hopefully this takes roughly 10-14 days before outside of buds becomes dry. Do not let any part of the bud become dry. if this happens to soon; up rh, lower temp, and/or decrease air flow. When drying is complete, Jar for minumum of 16hrs to get moisture back to the tips. You can now add boveda packs and or "burp" for 30 minutes and give airflow to the bud. Airflow is very important to the cure but so is maintaining 55-60%rh

                  After 2 weeks drying and 1 week "cure" i start to sell or taste test

                  i burp every other day for 2 weeks then weekly for 2months... then its good to go head stash
                  Source:

                  https://www.rollitup.org/t/grassy-sm...-stage.913094/
                  Originally posted by AVOH
                  open mind leaves room for growth
                  Originally posted by slownickel
                  Guy, I have been testing coco for years, right out of the bag. It's all salty.

                  Suggest you drop the blind faith and use a bit of science.
                  Originally posted by Bud Green
                  For almost 50 years I've smoked weed to enhance reality, not to escape from it...
                  Originally posted by Ibechillin
                  Diffused light > Spectrum.
                  Science Of Lighting & Plant Reactions (Sticky Thread):

                  https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358147

                  Drying and Cure Process Explained In Depth (Sticky Thread):

                  https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358186

                  Pot Size, Root system and maximizing growth thread:

                  https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=344347

                  Silicon, The Misunderstood Element:

                  https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352413

                  Humic and Fulvic acid information:

                  https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352265

                  sigpic

                  Comment


                    Thx for this! It is all in the smalles details, I will try this with my next harvest!

                    The drying process is just as crucial as the curing! I also prefer drying around 60% RH cuz the buds stay sticky that way and won't dry out, if the outsides dry out I find the taste and quality goes down. But I am dependant on my climate and the RH often fluctuates as much as 10-15 sometimes 20% during the drying process. This has a big impact on the end product :(


                    The only thing I am worried about when putting a humidifier and a dehumidifier in the same room, is that the air won't mix well and that the dehumidifier will fuck things up as I have had bad experiences with dehumidifiers.

                    I will try it nonetheless and post my results!

                    The tricky thing is keeping the drying conditions stable when you are just a home grower. And using both machines is not the same as a climate controlled room which I really would like to have drool
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                      That's been on my mind the most. I think, after day 7, I deemed it ready for jarring, but the RH shot up to 70% quite quickly.
                      There's your problem right there.

                      Leave them hanging for a couple more days up to another week. **EDIT- If you have already knocked the weed down to fit in jars, just lay it out on newspaper for about the same amount of time. Be sure to look at them and turn them every day.


                      Either way, they will seem too dry to recover, but when you eventually re-jar them, they will recover most of their moisture.

                      I went through the same thing a couple years ago. It's hard to NOT jar the weed when it feels dry. But you have to push through with faith. Give them another few days.

                      I have NEVER ruined a batch by leaving it hanging for too long. But I HAVE ruined weed by taking it down and jarring it too soon.

                      Good luck!


                      EDIT: I edited this slightly from my original post, because I got a lot of positive feedback on it. I also want to say to anybody that reads this- Don't trim it in any way when you harvest your plant. Just cut it down at the base, and hang it upside down whole.

                      Doing this has improved my curing more than anything else.
                      "you wouldn't know respect if it bit you on the k u n t, douchebag."- justanotherbozo
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                      Comment


                        Terpenes ars volatile organic compounds and solvents (some plastics not good to store in), that quickly evaporate naturally. Any time you smell weed, you are smelling terpenes that were oxidised/evaporated/lost. Trichomes are where the terpenes are concentrated, damaged trichome heads cause rapid oxidation/loss of both terpenoids and cannabinoids. Humidity below 59% causes trichome heads to become brittle and destroyed easily. Boveda did a test where they took 2 glass jars of weed and only placed a 62% humidity pack in one of them to compare terpene loss after 6 weeks of sealed storage, jars were shaken lightly once a week but never opened. The jar without the Boveda pack had lost 15% more terpenes end result. The humidity packs help keep the trichome heads from becoming brittle for better preservation.

                        Terpenes evaporate into the air space left in the storage container after sealing also, which is why you get that dank whiff when you first open it. For long term storage it might better to fill jars fuller leaving less air space after properly dried.

                        Optimal storage conditions are Dark, ~50F degrees, humidity between 59% - 63% to preserve optimal color, aroma, flavor, potency, texture.

                        Originally posted by Jellyfish View Post
                        I have NEVER ruined a batch by leaving it hanging for too long. But I HAVE ruined weed by taking it down and jarring it too soon.
                        ^Great addition!
                        Last edited by Ibechillin; 02-10-2019, 22:55.
                        Originally posted by AVOH
                        open mind leaves room for growth
                        Originally posted by slownickel
                        Guy, I have been testing coco for years, right out of the bag. It's all salty.

                        Suggest you drop the blind faith and use a bit of science.
                        Originally posted by Bud Green
                        For almost 50 years I've smoked weed to enhance reality, not to escape from it...
                        Originally posted by Ibechillin
                        Diffused light > Spectrum.
                        Science Of Lighting & Plant Reactions (Sticky Thread):

                        https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358147

                        Drying and Cure Process Explained In Depth (Sticky Thread):

                        https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358186

                        Pot Size, Root system and maximizing growth thread:

                        https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=344347

                        Silicon, The Misunderstood Element:

                        https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352413

                        Humic and Fulvic acid information:

                        https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352265

                        sigpic

                        Comment


                          Thanks so much everyone. I feel like I am equipped with much more knowledge now. I will definitely try jarring again and take into account these suggestions. I'll be especially sure not to jar it too moist. THC123, I will drop by in your thread, undoubtedly I have already come across it before during my evenings spent reading here .

                          Ibechillin, those blurbs of information were very enlightening. Jellyfish & burmese, what you wrote resonates with me. I was quick to let the buds dry out in the air again after noticing they were at 70% RH, but probably could have kept them out longer without re-jarring. I now guess that jarring buds (depriving them of fresh oxygen) too long from 70% → 65% might cause this kind of anaerobic fermentation that may degrade the bud. In my case it would have been preferable to go from 70 to ~55-62 in one session in a favorable environment, essentially prolonging the "drying" phase, rather than doing it in steps and jarring up, 70→68→67→etc. I never had any strong hay smell but the dank smell definitely changed and diminished.

                          What Igrowone & THC123 wrote about difference between curing methods for strains is very interesting and might well be a factor too. Trying different methods is something I look forward to.

                          I'll be back with some updates later... now it's time to start getting ready for the next drying/curing adventure
                          3 out of 3 germinated!!! Fantastic strain! 5 Stars.

                          Comment


                            Ohhh, my bleeding sinuses....

                            Originally posted by Jhhnn View Post
                            I'll agree with that. Here in Denver, the humidity is often very low indoors in the winter. So when burping the drying room, it'd be easy to over dry, lose the cure, unless there was a very large quantity of MJ in the room.

                            For me the first time through, once the buds got near dry, containers ~ half full gave me very good control as I eased the humidity down into the desired range...


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                              Indoors in the winter. But I think that is the case most places indoor in the winter, as that cold air is brought inside and heated its RH drops. For me its around 40%

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by THC123 View Post
                                Hey Douglas, do you still get good smells at 55-60% RH?
                                You can often 'taste' the terpenes when you break open a flower. I'd say yes.
                                Tending Your Reservoir for a Full pH Swing and Cleaner Cannabis (A Healthier Approach to Hydroponic Cannabis)
                                DIY STS Mixing/Using Guide for Feminized Pollen/Seeds
                                DIY Super Inexpensive HEPA Filtration
                                6-Second Pain Relief for Arthritic and Joint Pain
                                8-Minute CBD Test
                                Cool and Dry Flowering Discussion Thread

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