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Understanding Inorganic Salts and Their Relationship to Plant Nutrition

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    #16
    Manure salts are the water soluble salts present in manure. Manures commonly contain 4 to 5% soluble salts (dry weight basis) and may run as high as 10%. You can't measure the EC of the manure itself, so the salts have to be dissolved in water at the appropriate concentration for comparison.
    Plant Nutrition
    Understanding Inorganic Salts

    "In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. ... It happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." – Carl Sagan


    "There is rebirth of character, but no transmigration of a self. Thy thought-forms reappear, but there is no egoentity transferred. The stanza uttered by a teacher is reborn in the scholar who repeats the words. Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existent entities.""Our thinking is gone, but our thoughts continue. Reasoning ceases, but knowledge remains." – Buddha

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      #17
      I wanted to mix 1part Peat, 1part Verm, 1part Perlite, dolomite lime, with some organic compost, blood, and bone meal.. and supplement with flora nova bloom..

      I've run soiless before and fed with just gh and got great results, should I not bother with the extra hassle? Maybe change my ratios?

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        #18
        You should do whatever works best for you... I find using GH flora micro and GH flora bloom in Coco is the simplest way to grow excellent buds. I really am against adding too much to my reservoir, or to my medium. Nothing but ions dissociated from purified mineral compounds suspended in a polar solvent, perfectly ready to attach to a root hair...
        Plant Nutrition
        Understanding Inorganic Salts

        "In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. ... It happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." – Carl Sagan


        "There is rebirth of character, but no transmigration of a self. Thy thought-forms reappear, but there is no egoentity transferred. The stanza uttered by a teacher is reborn in the scholar who repeats the words. Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existent entities.""Our thinking is gone, but our thoughts continue. Reasoning ceases, but knowledge remains." – Buddha

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          #19
          Yea you're right. I mix 1 part equal Perlite, Vermiculate, Peatmoss, and some Dolomite Lime.. I used to feed like you, GH Lucas.. Lately I've been using Flora Nova..

          Would you suggest I change my ratios? Maybe all Peat/Perlite and some Lime?

          Comment


            #20
            any comparisson to offer between the flora nova and modified lucas and the supplimented soil mix, in vino veratas?
            Plant Nutrition
            Understanding Inorganic Salts

            "In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. ... It happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." – Carl Sagan


            "There is rebirth of character, but no transmigration of a self. Thy thought-forms reappear, but there is no egoentity transferred. The stanza uttered by a teacher is reborn in the scholar who repeats the words. Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existent entities.""Our thinking is gone, but our thoughts continue. Reasoning ceases, but knowledge remains." – Buddha

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              #21
              A great read for anyone looking to understand the basics of plant nutrition imo.

              Understand how... And you will know why.

              Comment


                #22
                inorganic salts + organic help: merits & methods?

                Hey, H3ad (and any others confident about this subject). I currently grow with Flora Nova nutes and then add amendments. Those are minor doses of CalMag plus Hygrozyme, Floralicious+, and Florablend. Every now and then I also add molasses + mycorrizhae fungus and AN's Piranha bacteria. Of those, I think only the CalMag (100% salt) throws off the nute ratios. The tap water I use is fairly soft (shows up as 0ppm on my Blue Labs truncheon) and I let it sit 24 hours before use to let the chorine out.

                Now, as I understand it, a plant will accept nutrients in any form that they are *available*. Salts are instantly available and are basically "poured" right into the plant. On the other hand, organic nutrients are actually fed to the soil where the microherd (bacteria and fungus) digest them and only then make available for roots to absorb.

                My question is how does one take advantage of chemical salt's convenience but also set up a microherd support base with organic amendments? With this strategy I reason that a moderately experienced grower can ensure maximum growth rate, take advantage of organic flavor/health, and also widen the margin of error as far as burning is concerned, etc.

                The pray4pistils garden seems happy enough, but I'd like to optimize everything! That requires actual understanding of the principles involved. Please lay some knowledge on us, gurus.

                Thank you,


                Mom and the kids







                Last batch of youngin's just after going under the 400W CMH
                Now growing White Widow, Sour Diesel, and Somango outdoors and organically!

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by pray4pistils View Post
                  Hey, H3ad (and any others confident about this subject). I currently grow with Flora Nova nutes and then add amendments. Those are minor doses of CalMag plus Hygrozyme, Floralicious+, and Florablend. Every now and then I also add molasses + mycorrizhae fungus and AN's Piranha bacteria. Of those, I think only the CalMag (100% salt) throws off the nute ratios. The tap water I use is fairly soft (shows up as 0ppm on my Blue Labs truncheon) and I let it sit 24 hours before use to let the chorine out.

                  Now, as I understand it, a plant will accept nutrients in any form that they are *available*. Salts are instantly available and are basically "poured" right into the plant. On the other hand, organic nutrients are actually fed to the soil where the microherd (bacteria and fungus) digest them and only then make available for roots to absorb.
                  Salts are only 'instantly available' when their concentration in the solvent is low enough to allow dissociation. Growing in coco is an excellent example of growing using salts, but also having an 'organic support system' in place. Coco naturally supports trichoderma growth, for example, and can be colonized by other beneficials as well.

                  My question is how does one take advantage of chemical salt's convenience but also set up a microherd support base with organic amendments? With this strategy I reason that a moderately experienced grower can ensure maximum growth rate, take advantage of organic flavor/health, and also widen the margin of error as far as burning is concerned, etc.

                  The pray4pistils garden seems happy enough, but I'd like to optimize everything! That requires actual understanding of the principles involved. Please lay some knowledge on us, gurus.

                  Thank you,
                  When introducing microlife into your system, what are your goals?
                  The main role of microlife in an organic system is to convert unusable organic compounds into usable inorganic ones... This role is unnecessary when using readily available nutrients...
                  There are, however, also enzymes which are by-products of the life cycle of some beneficials... adding these could provide usable benefits to your garden... The main concern would be in providing the microlife with organic material for food... In the coco example, the trichoderma feed on the coco.
                  However, you don't want to provide food for the wrong kind of microlife... Pythium for example...
                  Plant Nutrition
                  Understanding Inorganic Salts

                  "In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. ... It happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." – Carl Sagan


                  "There is rebirth of character, but no transmigration of a self. Thy thought-forms reappear, but there is no egoentity transferred. The stanza uttered by a teacher is reborn in the scholar who repeats the words. Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existent entities.""Our thinking is gone, but our thoughts continue. Reasoning ceases, but knowledge remains." – Buddha

                  Comment


                    #24
                    nice thread...eyecandy for the chemistry freaks out here
                    T.R.U.S.T. (T.R.U.S.T. the Revival of the Ultimate Sativa Thread)

                    It's 4:20 somewhere

                    Comment


                      #25
                      thanx grat3fulh3ad, very informative thread.
                      Best Link: http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/yor/yor.htm

                      **All correspondence from Matanuskan Flo is purely hypothetical & typed under extreme intoxification.**

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Okay, I lost track of this thread but remain interested in the informed answers!

                        Originally posted by Grat3fulh3ad View Post
                        When introducing microlife into your system, what are your goals?
                        At this point my goals are now to expand on the success that I got some time after asking these questions. I went ahead and did some FloraNova + organics runs with clones in a very aerated hempy SOG.

                        There are, however, also enzymes which are by-products of the life cycle of some beneficials... adding these could provide usable benefits to your garden...
                        Right, and it's these by products that seem to be relieving stress (transplant, heat, drought) in general. Taste and aroma have also improved. Output isn't all that different until I get down to the last two weeks where I'd ordinarily be flushing. At that point I just go 100% organic and let the plant consume any leftover chemicals. Since the girls are fed to the end, they pump out a little bit more weight.

                        The main concern would be in providing the microlife with organic material for food... However, you don't want to provide food for the wrong kind of microlife... Pythium for example...
                        What foods are you suggesting that I should avoid? For the record, I brew aerated tea in my reservoir. My recent success has been with this basic recipe:

                        AN Iguana Juice (half strength)
                        AN Tarantula
                        Floralicious Plus (half strength)
                        FloraNectar
                        Hygrozyme
                        fulvic acid
                        dried kelp
                        earthworm castings (held in a nylon stocking)
                        coffee grinds (" ")
                        alfalfa pellets (" ")
                        urine (pee'd by me directly into the reservoir)

                        Previously I poured all this into a hempy set up. Now I'm brewing the tea directly in my ebb & flow bucket system's 55gal reservoir. There's no slime, foul odors, or issues in general. -just lots of foam and an earthy fragrance. The pH jumps to ~6.8 in the hydro range until the batch starves or I kill it with H202, but that just ain't an issue with organics. On the last (hempy) run I found a score of fat/juicy earthworms in the perlite-based mix.
                        Now growing White Widow, Sour Diesel, and Somango outdoors and organically!

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Great thread, very informative & i will endevour to understand it & more! Thanks guys! Giving me some great ideas!
                          'The Lights are on and I'm Always Home'

                          Comment


                            #28
                            I add molassas to my soiless mix to provide food for the microherd...is it me or did I discern that the nutrient salts kill the bacteria?
                            Then is adding molassas counterproductive?
                            It has always seemed to me that molassas provides the necessary simple sugars that the micro's feed on.
                            someday we will all get along!

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by GrinStick View Post
                              I add molassas to my soiless mix to provide food for the microherd...is it me or did I discern that the nutrient salts kill the bacteria?
                              Then is adding molassas counterproductive?
                              It has always seemed to me that molassas provides the necessary simple sugars that the micro's feed on.
                              you don't need a microherd unless you're feeding with big organic sourced molecules which must be digested into salts before the plant can use them. salts are already ready already. salts do not kill anything when used properly.
                              Plant Nutrition
                              Understanding Inorganic Salts

                              "In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. ... It happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." – Carl Sagan


                              "There is rebirth of character, but no transmigration of a self. Thy thought-forms reappear, but there is no egoentity transferred. The stanza uttered by a teacher is reborn in the scholar who repeats the words. Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existent entities.""Our thinking is gone, but our thoughts continue. Reasoning ceases, but knowledge remains." – Buddha

                              Comment


                                #30
                                not even to fight the bad microlife?? (pithyum, fusarium, etc..)

                                This was what I believed ...
                                So, at this point; and using GH Flora series, should I just dump the trichoderma to the bin and use only Mineral Magic for this purpose???

                                This is always a big question for me.

                                (in the rest I agree, if you have chelates in the mix, you don't need microlife to "disgest" it, etc).
                                Thanks for the thread, you made me go coco loco time ago ...

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