Chanting Growers Group

[Guest]

Faith

Faith

The next point to understand is faith. When we first chant the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra; nam myoho renge kyo; we do not have any expectation of any result. We tried it because someone told us to, or encouraged us to chant for the first time. We placed faith in their knowledge and are waiting for some result to help bolster our own confidence lijke theirs is.

Nichiren says, "Faith is no more than believing in the Lotus Sutra"

When we believe in something we develop some expectation or outcome. When we chant and our problem is resolved or we feel better, or we accomplish what we set out to do, we become more confident about using the strategy of the Lotus Sutra.

This means to chant nam myoho renge kyo first before all other approaches are utilized. Action based on our daimoku leads us in the proper direction for our desired results.

If you wonder how that happens, That is the mystical part of myoho. When we chant, I belive the universe moves in our direction to support our endeavors. No matter what the ciscumstances may be at that time. We have the ability to change them at that moment!

Through our practice and study we develop our faith.

Practice is no more than chanting nam myoho renge kyo over and over daily, along with reciting gongyo twice daily. We recite the hoben and juryo chapters from the Lotus Sutra twicw daily. This is called Gongyo. We also chant before and after we do gongyo, Each persosn determines how much or how long they chant. it is an individual thing. As is this practice of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism

Doing gongyo in the morning is like preparing for our day to be right and appropriate for each of us. We make our causes and get on with our day. At the end of the day we do gongyo again to show appreciation for all we have accomplished today, as well as apprefiation for our life and the lives of others.

Study is what has leed to this threads existence. People on this thread have studied long and hard in order to sustain their own faith.

"Without practcie and study ther is no buddhism!" Nichiren Daishonin again. This guy was smart.

He knew if you do not understand you will not continue, no matter how much success you get with chanting. Knowing is more important than doing. Understanding leads to deeper faith, and a more consistent practice, which leads to a happier life, filled with true Joy!

You can chant daimoku along with all your other activites of faith. In the end you will know what is beneficial and what is notbeneficial in your own individual life. The actual experience is what matters. Everyone is not ready to practice at this time and everyone should not feel they have to practice at this time. For each of us the appropriate time will arrive when we are prepared. There is no hurry in these things.

"It is the heart that is most important." Nichiren Daishonin. This guy Nichiren was really snmart. Hell he read every sutra written in the thirteenth century. At age 7 (?) he chanted to become the most knowledgeable person in all of Japan.

He did that as well. He revealed his own Buddhahood, and started a new practice of Buddhism that was never heard of before. Chanting nam myoho renge kyo to his gohonzon. How great is that. I would think you would have to be a Buddha to start a new Buddhist practice.

Myoho Renge Kyo is also the title of each chapter of the Lotus Sutra. There aer 28 chapters. Yet noone figured this simple thing out except Nichiren. How telling.

Nichiren only pointed out the obvious to everyone. Just like the nose on your face, you can only see it in a mirror or with anothers eyes. Nichiren again.

Actual proof of his practcie. Most important. item to remember

"The Lotus Sutra is such a mirror" Nichiren Daishonin

Nichiren Daishonin taught that his daimoku nam myoho renge kyo includes all the teachings of all the buddhas throught all time. Just this one simple phrase is the heart of the Lotus Sutra.

VegasBuddha

 

[Guest]

myo means mystical

myo means mystical

For all my SGI friends, check out sensei's guidance.

A translation of President Ikeda's "To My Friends" published in the Seikyo Shimbun.

FRIDAY, September 3rd, 2004
-- TO MY FRIENDS --
Let's not overlook even the smallest signs of new growth and development! Let's carefully look after our "young buds" and nurture them by giving them as much thoughtful encouragement and support as we possibly can!

-- WAGATOMO NI OKURU --
ATARASHII HATTEN ENO
CHIISANA UGOKI O
MINOGASUNA!
WAKAME O DAIJINI
HAGEMASHI SODATEYO!

--わが友に贈る--
新しい発展への
小さな動きを
見逃すな！
若芽を大事に
励まし育てよ！

FRIDAY, September 3rd, 2004
--- DAILY GOSHO ---
"None of you who declare yourselves to be my disciples should ever give way to cowardice."

(The Actions of the Votary of the Lotus Sutra - The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, page 764) Selection source: SGI President Ikeda's essay, Seikyo Shimbun, September 3rd, 2004

SATURDAY, September 4th, 2004
---- DAILY ENCOURAGEMENT ----
"The willingness to improve oneself is a form of courage informed by humility and a flexible spirit."

No more need be said! myoho = mystical Law

VegasBuddha

 

[Guest]

Compassion vs. Wisdom

Compassion vs. Wisdom

In the Lotus Sutra, the Treasure Tower Chapter reveals this buddha never before heard of. This Buddha's name is Many Treasures. Many Treasures vowed to always appear wherever the Correct Law was expounded.

When Shakyamuni Buddha expounded the One Great Truth on Eagle Peak, Many Treasures appeared from beneath the earth to show the validity of the Correct Law, and to offer half his seat to shakyamuni Buddha.

Upon reading the Lotus Sutra, Nichiren understood the value of both wisdom and compassion. Compassion without wisdom is useless, and wisdom without compassion is just as useless. We need both equally balanced in our lives.

Nichiren Daishonin understood this and placed both of these Buddhas at the top of the gohonzon each flanking each other, each with two of the Four leaders of the Boddhisattvas of the earth for a total balance of our individual lives.

Wisdom without compassion is evil. No good can come of wisdom used for selfish needs. Wisdom guided by compassion on the other hand guides one to best understand how tp alleviate the suffering of another person. I ask myself, "What will it take for this person to be happy today?" That is wisdom tempered with compasion.

Compassion without wisdom is just as bad. But in it's basic form compassion is good. Compassion misdirected can create evil no matter what the intention. My granny used to say, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions!" It is not what we tried to do, it is our actual result that only matters. Tthat is the Real Cause and Effect, not the one we perceived it to be.

When I say to myself, "How can I help others to be as happy as me?" that is compassion tempered with wisdom.

Both are equally correct. That is why each flanks nam myoho renge kyo. Together they balance our lives and the lives of others. Both are necessary, but either one without the other becomes useless to ourself and others!

"Both good and evil are functions of myoho renge kyo." Nichiren.

VegasBuddha

 

[Guest]

Shakubuku meeting at ICamg.com

Shakubuku meeting at ICamg.com

For those of you new to Nichiren Daishonin's Buyddhism, we are having a shakubuku meeting on this thread, or a discussion meeting, if you will.

Welcome!

For background, the SGI has always held our metings in the homes of our members. We meet at dfiferent people's homes and share our experiences, our frustrations, and our sucesses, and failures. Everything. We are a big family spanning the globe. We meet in over 187 countries throughout the world every week.

I am a group leader in teh SGI-USA. What that means is I am responsible for encouragng at least ten people to be happy. I have their phone numbers and addresses, and they have mine. We talk together, chant together, and encourage each other.

Firstly, a leader does no more than lead gongyo. that is all. As a leader I am responsible for the true happiness of the members in my group. That means I chant for their happiness daily. In meetings, I only fasciltate dialogue. I do not lecture or give guidance to others, I am responsible to provide an, environment conducive for a correct practice. That is all.

I have no power over anyone. Not even my wife of 25 years!, just compassion for others in my group and my life.

In a group meeting we start out like we have here. First talk about the basics. We did get a little deep for some, but we realized and started over. My apology!

Now we are back at the basics. What is nam myoho renge kyo, how do we say it, and what is a gohonzon?

Hopefull we have answered these basic questions. if not please speak up and ask away. The only DUMB question is the one that was not aksed. Most important every comment, thought, or addition to, are all offerings equal to the buddhas. All are equal in a meeting. Everyone is heard and respected equally within the SGI.

Usualy we next have an experience or two, to encourage others to continue their practice. People have experiences of fincanial, personal, professional, or you name it. The concept of Earthly Desires are enlightenment mens all that we desire wiill ultimately lead each of us to true happiness. There is no problem with material wealth in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism.. We call that actual proof!

So with all that said. enjoy and lets get going!

VegasBuddha

 

[SoCal Hippy]

My experience

My experience

Thank you VB for the invitation. I would like to share my personal experience how I began this practice and in doing so I believe it will help Natty Gurl and any others having any challenges with starting chanting even tho you might have other beliefs and faiths.

When I was introduced to Nam Myoho Renge Kyo some 30 yrs ago, I was a strong Catholic. I say strong only that I did go to Mass (church) every Sunday because this is what I was led to believe I must do or else suffer a hellish afterlife. I had gone to catholic school all my life and was even an alter boy for several yrs as an adolescent. I was 19 and just began college. I had so many questions about 'life' in which my christian faith was not answering. I remember at about age 14 when my best friend's brother was killed in VietNam as a helicopter pilot. I questioned Why??? He was such a good guy and like an older brother to me. I remember at his funeral service me praying so hard to find out this answer to my question and asking god to give me some answer. I asked god if i needed to become a priest when I got older to be closer to him, etc. I asked so many questions to god and myself over the next couple yrs, never getting any satifactory answers thru my faith. I was searching and searching and my high school yrs were not very enjoyable and satisfying. I did some very destructful things from my anger and hopeless feelings. So entering college I was feeling hopeless about myself and life.

PTD had introduced my next door neighbor to this practice. (Karmic connection!) I didn't particulary care too much for this girl 1 yr older than I. In fact I despised and resented her very much. She had been friends with my sis, and continually used her and hurt her over the yrs. So when she told me about her chanting Nam Myhoho Renge Kyo and she invited me to attend a discussion mtg, I refused and told her she was going to hell!

She continued to invite me for about 3 months as I continued to struggle in my life at that time and I believe she could see my suffering. The only thing that made me happy then was having some weed, if i didn't hav it i had to find some. I saw a tremendous change in this girl's life over these few months. She was so positive and many good things were changing in her life. I could see so much actual proof in her. My attitude changed about her and I told her I would go to a SGI mtg with her in Dec. '73.

I was totallly blown away at this mtg. Here were all these ppl from all walks of life (blacks, whites, mexican, asian, etc.) together chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo and it sounded so cool!
I would have never associated with these kinds of ppl prior to this mtg as I was quite a prejudiced individual (I am white) During this mtg everyone was so happy and positive about their lifes. You could really feel the unity and potential for world peace as a reality. This being said, I couldn't bring myself to receiving a Gohonzon and chanting myself because of my catholic beliefs. I was told at this mtg "that I could believe in anything I want and I could chant for anything that I want to make me happy; there was nothing I needed to change that I was presently doing, no rules, commandments or anything; no belief is necessary; just add Nam Myoho Renge Kyo to my life; it doesn't conflict with anything because it is a 'philosophy of Life'. "

This is what I needed to hear and I decided that I would start chanting but continued to go to church as I had been. I was afraid to tell my parents who I was still living with and my peers. So I did it incognito, chanting mostly with my next door neighbor.
I received my Gohonzon, but out of fear, I kept it rolled up in a drawer. These are the 1st things I chanted for. (Remember, I just turned 19 in the early 70's)
I chanted for pot, $$$, girls and also I had been recently been issued a warrant and going to court for a hit n run auto accident, probably the biggest reason because I was scared to death. I was guilty, luckily no one was hurt.

I remember one of my 1st benefits; chanting to get into a preferred english class in college. ONe that all the football players get into cuz the teach was very easy. Of course it was filled before my turn for registration so I went to the 1st class to petition to get in. There were 70 others petitioning that day. At the end of class the teach advised there were 3 openings available and whoever comes back to the next class could enter a lottery. Myself and 63 others came back to that next class. I had chanted for 3 days to get in. On the day of the lottery, my name was called 2nd! So cool!

Another early benefit, in that same english class there was a real cute gal I wanted to meet. Me being a shy person with little confidence I would never approach her in this kind of setting. So I chanted about meeting her. The next class I got to class early. She did too and even tho many seats were open, she sat next to me and we talked. I took her out the following Fri nite!

And then after a couple of months I was facing my court trial. I was so scared. I chanted so much to some how overcome this. I chanted that the guy pressing charges would drop them, but it wasn't happening. The nite b4 the trial, I asked a person that had chanted many yrs why my prayer wasn't answered? He told my "not to doubt Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. The laws of society are created by ppl; Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is the Law of the Universe!" With new confidence I chanted somehow to win and went to court the following morning. Before court began my attorney, the prosecutor and judge went into chambers for some time. They negotiated a plea bargain so i plead guilty to a lesser charge and they dropped the hit/run charge. I was so stoked!!! The guy pressing charges almost was arrested in court for contempt. He was very vocally upset.

This was just a few of my early experiences that validated the Law of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. Interesting enough, after a couple months friends and family were asking me now why I had changed so much? Even tho I didn't know it, ppl could see this, my environment was now reflecting my higher life condition. With confidence, I told my family I was Buddhist and put my Gohonzon up in my room. My sis then began chanting along with some of my friends I introduced. They saw the actual proof in my life as I had seen in my next door neighbor.

I hope by sharing these early experiences in my life that somehow helps others thinking about trying it in theirs.
Just try it! You have nothing to lose and so much to gain. Just like I was told: You don't need to believe in it, you don't have to change anything that you presently are doing, just add Nam Myoho Renge Kyo to your life now and overcome any present suffering or challenge you might be going thru. You will definetly see the actual proof you need to see to become truly happy.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank PTD, for his continued friendship and support over these 30 yrs. We are truly brothers from the infinite past!!! I love ya brother.

 

[Hitman]

Keep up the good work!

Keep up the good work!

Vegas Buddha, Awesome information!

Hi Pass the Doobie!

Happygrowsbro!

 

[Guest]

Enjoyment and Encouragement

Enjoyment and Encouragement

Hey Buddies!!
This thread has been excellent the last 24 hours. Vegas your rendition of the basics of NamMyohoRengeKyo down thru the basics of practice was great. I think after 30, 15 years of practice, we get so envolved in life and the mechanics of chanting, we forget what we are saying and why we are saying it and become as a new member, reviving our faith. And of anyone who has a curiosity of this practice, you have written it on a level they can understand to include me.
SoCal your experience was great! We look back at the things we chanted for in the beginning and laugh at our place in life and the things we chanted for with a sense of hocus pocus because we were raised strict christians, but how in perspective from this side it showed where our life conditions were when we started and with no base of experience that is how we percieved it to be. So we must be down the road to look at it in the way we do. Makes you laugh at yourself actually! Thank you so much.
And SoCal we must have that same connection, for I too have an experience with PTB and he has been my big brother for 11 years. I too will share that experience because I feel it will help natty gurrl.
As for me right now, the power and beauty of all of this is just breath-taking. I am blown away! I know for people on the outside who have never said NamMyoHoRengeKYo this all seems too funny. The hippies of peace and love. But for us who have done it and feel that rush inside (you know what I'm talking about) when you receive that validation from the universe of an answer to a question, or meeting the right person, or being at the right place at the right time.....How wonderful it is and it is those occurences that create the struggle of what is outside of yourself and what is your life. (That is for those who have been christian and believe that it all comes from the outside, the man on the cloud).
So I say to PTB, Again, I will always need you. Need is not about desparation, unable to get thru it all, dependence. Need is about a like minded brother who is always there to remind me of who I am and what I am to do in this lifetime. It is having the love and respect to get thru what we have to go thru individually. AGAIN, I will ALWAYS need you. Souther Girl

 

[Guest]

SoCalHippy. Thanks for the great experience. Wow, money, drugs, women. Sounds like a movie made for TV dude. Congratulatins and thank-you again. Experiences are always hard to share. But once we share oure experience we fell better somehow.

SouthernGirl. We always strive to have guests at all meetings as it changes the direction of our meetings and our lives at that moment. It seems we speak more about the basics than the more deep aspects of this practice, and everyone comes away hapoier for it. Dometimes we have Gosho study meetings. my favorite. i love dialoge about the Lotus Sutra, the Gosho, and how to practice Correctly.

New members and guests keep us grounded firmly in reality. Their questions always do. Remembering the basics is what Nichiren always taught, as well as sensei Toda, and Ikeda; the second and third presidents of the Value-Creation Society-SGI.

Faith, Practice, and Study. Keeping these three actions in their proper perspective is important, I believe.

Many of our newer members, in explaing what they have learned impresses me, with their learning. I can always learn something new from everyone. A recent new member of about two years was explaining the Gohonzon one evening, and she said, "one side repreesents evil, and the other side represents good", left vs right.

I had not heard or read of this before, but it made logical sense to me, as good and evil are both aspects of myoho renge kyo. You can learn something new all the time, I guess.

A gosho I love to read but is hard to comprehend is the True apect of all phenomena. Nichiren really talks about emptiness, just as Shakyamuni revealed it in the Lotus Sutra. I think this is one of those Gosho's you have to read "with your life" just as Nichiren wrote it "with his life."

The funny thing is, I had to read many different gosho and put together some of the concepts Nichiren offers, into one cohesive idea, that he explains in various gosho, it seems.

One minute he will call a thing one thing, and in another gosho he will call it another thing, givin it a new apsect or perspective. Yet in another gosho he will refer to what he called a thing, now only a different reference, creating a new perspective of view if you will.

Funny thing, I said to my wife one day last week, "We have to look at our own lives from many different aspects, as our lives are like a diamond reflecting many aspects, just like the Law of Cause and Effect. If we only look at ourselves from our own perspective or aspect, we will never see what others are looking at, and we will never change either externally or internally."

Thank-you each for sharing your ideas and experiences.

BTW, it is allowed for ALL to share how they feel or think There are no wrong answers, just our felings, all equal under the myoho renge kyo. There is no such thing as a wrong answer, just our perception of a person's answer at that moment.

Listening is much more important than talking, I believe. I would be interested in hearing what others have to say, here as well.

VegasBUddha

 

[SoCal Hippy]

Why Nam Myoho REnge Kyo???

Why Nam Myoho REnge Kyo???

You are so right on South Girl. As I recollect where I was when I began practicing I do have to laugh. But then, only under those specific circumstances would it allow me to even think/consider chanting to solve my problems and unhappiness in my life. Actually, at that time I felt I was allready pretty happy, as long as I had some pot and partying with my friends. This really allowed me to cover up and not address/face my problems and sufferings that I was experiencing. But with that court case coming up, I was desparate and would try anything, even tho I had so many hangups with Buddhism, chanting, eastern thought, a Gohonzon, etc. I would like to address a big question I had when I began, which is:

Why chant 'Nam-myoho-renge-kyo' instead of any other words? Do the words themselves have power? (answer taken from FAQ's on Buddhism)

All words have power. Words can make people happy or sad, angry or loving, and so on. Language has a more profound effect on our lives than we realize. Nichiren Daishonin says: "They say that.... if you so much as hear the words 'pickled plum', your mouth will begin to water. Even in everyday life there are such wonders, so how much greater are the wonders of the Lotus Sutra." (Major Writings, vol.3, pp.34).

Historically, Myoho-renge-kyo is the title and essence of the Lotus Sutra, the highest of Shakyamuni's teachings, as translated from Sanskrit into ancient Chinese characters. Nichiren Daishonin placed "nam," a Sanskrit word meaning 'devotion', in front of these characters; so that in simple terms Nam-myoho-renge-kyo means devotion to the ultimate Law of the universe. Each of the characters themselves contain extremely profound principles of life, however, and together they express how everything in the cosmos works in one harmonious relationship.

Of course this is extremely difficult to believe and understand, but that does not mean it cannot be understood, or that chanting this phrase does not have a profound effect on our lives.

Scientists and mathematicians use formulas and language which are quite incomprehensible to most other people, but they can convey even the most difficult concepts to each other with accurate use of these expressions. Daisaku Ikeda, president of Soka Gakkai International (SGI), says: "In the same manner, when we chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, even if we don't understand its profound meaning, we can tap the condition of Buddhahood. Our voice chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo permeates the cosmos and reaches the life condition of Buddhahood and all the Buddhas in the universe. It also penetrates our lives, enabling us to unlock the palace of Buddhahood, or the supreme life condition of eternity, happiness, true self and purity. It is the same as music that, without any explanation, reaches and filters into people's hearts, calling forth a sympathetic response from them."

The most important point to remember is that everyone who chants Nam-myoho-renge-kyo can draw out of themselves the state of Buddhahood which influences all the other states in our life and guides our actions in the very midst of our day-to-day struggles and problems. Although it is very difficult to believe at first, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is the essence of everyone's life, and when we chant this phrase it affects us in countless positive ways, from the very core of our lives.

The extent to which we can benefit from chanting depends not on the power inherent in the characters Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, which is limitless, but entirely on how much sincere effort we make when we practice. The natural Law of life is in everything, but only by chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo and taking action in our daily lives can we tap or activate it, and so enable it to work for the happiness of ourselves and other people. Buddhism talks about the principle of the 'four powers': the power of the Buddha, the power of the Law, the power of faith and the power of practice. The first two are embodied in the Gohonzon, but are only activated by the powers of faith and practice of the person who chants to it. In other words it is the power of our faith and practice which determines the extent to which the power of the Gohonzon can appear in our lives.

Hope that helps others understand a little bit better why we chant specifically Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. Simply put, you have a name. When someone says your name only, they are including everything about yourself, your entire being and existence from your birth till present..... just by chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, you are putting into action the law of the universe to benefit your life wherever you are at now. Those are the words that have power.

.....Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, like the ROAR of a lion, what sickness can therefore be an obstacle?" (from reply to Kyo'o)

 

[Guest]

rambling thoughts

rambling thoughts

Hitman. Thank-you for the knid words.

SoCalHippy. Thank-you for the eexcellent presentation of why chant nam myoho renge kyo instead of anything else.

Two thoughts from our Monthly Wolrd Peace Prayer meeting; Kosen-Rufu Gongyo. Wisodm and Compassion and Peace.

Firstly, The idea that Peace is not an absence of war but something much more fundamental. The individual happines of everyone, in order for the world to be at peace. Peace is not an absence of anything, but the sesation of fear, anger, and other emotions that separate us instead of bring us together.

Secondly, We need both wisdom and compasion if we are to have relationships with people we disagree with. It is much easier to have relationships with people we agree with, but it takes both wisdom and compassion to establish and maintain relationships with those we do not agree with.

It seems to me it will take both wisdom and compasison from all of us, if we are to realize real world peace in or lifetimes.

VegasBuddha

 

[Guest]

Understanding

Understanding

During this thread I have presented some issues that others practicing within the SGI or outside the SGI may or may not agree with me. I think that is fine. These understanding I have presented, are my personal understandings of how I practice Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism, from my studies. Each of us may see the same thing and see something different.

Each of us, I believe, must gain our own understanding of the Ultimate Law of Life and Death, and practice as bst we canl. "It is the heart that is most important", Nichiren. Each of us is unique and may see things differently, that does not mean right or wrong, just different. Differences should not separate us, but the differences should bring us together. I believe, it is with equal parts of wisdom and compassion we learn to accomplsh this great task of mutual respect and livingh together.

All are equal under the Law of Cause and Effect, I believe.

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, like the Roar of the Lion!

VegasBuddha

 

[PassTheDoobie]

And then, POOF! He was gone...

And then, POOF! He was gone...

And so I am left holding the bag, and asking the question:

"Where is the roar of the lion now?"

(From the Dictionary of Buddhism)

eight types of arrogance: Also, eight arrogances. They are (1) thinking that one is superior to others, though one is really inferior; (2) thinking that one is superior to others, when one is actually equal to them; (3) boasting of one's superiority over others and belittling them; (4) thinking that one's life, a temporary union of the five components, is permanent; (5) thinking that one has attained enlightenment when in fact one has not; (6) thinking that one is only slightly inferior to those who far surpass one; (7) thinking that one possesses virtue though one lacks virtue, and (8) thinking little of others or paying no respect to people of virtue or superior to oneself.

(Please note that these superior/inferior connotations pertain to the practice and understanding of buddhism; not as inequalities of ones inherent buddha nature or inequality as human beings.)

I will end this for the moment by saying without equivocation:

KNOWING IS NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN DOING. NOT IN MAYHAYANA BUDDHSIM. NOT WITH THE LAW OF CAUSE AND EFFECT OR THE BUDDHISM OF NICHIREN DAISHONIN. NOT SOMETIMES, NOT EVER! NEVER, NEVER, EVER, EVER! EVER!!!

This has been a heartbreaking weekend in one way (the above), and yet at the same time this was one of the most absolutely fucking cosmic kickass wonderful, wonderful weekends I have had in years. The Universe gave me all of the actual proof I needed to experience to understand my refutation, for the purpose of protecting those that read this thread from mis-information, was the correct thing to do!!!

I hope my true friends will support me through this very difficult and painful time. More later...PM me if you don't want to post.

Thomas

 

[Guest]

I'm Back and Confused!

I'm Back and Confused!

Hello Everyone!
Well I have been off line for a couple of days. Have been playing in Hurricane Land. However, I return to be somewhat confused. This is a thread in Cannagraphic! I return to find such dialoge referencing this as an SGI MEETING! No way! This is an exchange of ideas and like minded people, to be somewhat light hearted, and should be people interested in the practice of Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism, there are references and people to guide them to the places that they need to be.
However, being an ex Womans Division Chief of SGI, I find referring these conversations as SGI meetings completely and totally inappropriate. I somehow feel that Pres Ikeda would feel the same. Lets get back to how we have been. Culture Centers and District meetings can be made available to whom ever is interested in their prospective areas.
SoCal, Again, I truly enjoyed your experience and writings.
Natty Gurl, Hitman, Blatant, PTB where are you?
Southern Girl

 

[Guest]

I'm still here. But have no opinion on what has transpired. I see My Bud Vegas has deleted his account. Too bad. I'll still keep up with you. I never really participated in this thread just sat back and read and learned. But it seems like it has taken a hit. I'll let it play out.

Blatant

 

[PassTheDoobie]

Ineed to sart the explaination of what has happened

Ineed to sart the explaination of what has happened

It has nothing to do with you Gurrl!
Blatant, I respect your objectivity. Just don't stop chanting.

First of all, everyone who has followed this thread knows how highly I have come to regard Vegas. I still do. I always will. And I have just gotten done chanting sincerely for his well being. I never thought the way he would resolve this issue would be to not explain anything and just go away. Poof!

He is my brother will always be my brother and I have in no way rejected him. I did however point out some things that I asked him to be more careful about (actually it came to the point of me having to say, "please don't do this again). This has been going on for awhile, but blew into the result that you are seeing now, last Friday.

For the record, he had already written me a PM blowing me off and deleted his account before I ever wrote about the Buddhist definitions of arrogance shown above. I had said in a PM prior to that he was actually doing arrogant things, and to stop doing that. As I said to him then, I wasn't talking aout the subjective use of the word as any of us would use it. I was talking about arrogance in regard to Buddhist doctrine.

I have said this in the response to 'Bodhi Sativa', in an earlier post, a good friend warns you when they see you doing things that could get you into trouble without you knowing it/realizing it/understanding it. As I have said in an earlier post, Buddhism is not at all critical of other philosophies, but very demanding in the correct interpretation of the sutras and tenants of Buddhism. The reason is that, as history has shown, you can manipulate and head trip with this information to create false understandings and establish yourself as some sort of guru, VERY EASILY!

We are very fortunate that most of the belief system that we as disciples of Nichiren Daishonin who chant Nam myoho-renge-kyo, is established by the extant writings, in his own hand, of the Daishonin. The Daishonin was asked some very specific questions by his followers and he gave very specific answers.

We as a lay organization, have a huge study department and genuine learned scholars of buddhism who utilze the entire breadth of Buddhist cannon to provide us with correct understandings of principals which we are then encouraged to validate through the process of applying them to our daily lives.

This is where wisdom comes from in Buddhism. Not from mental masturation, poring over doctrine, coming up with our independant interpretations, and so forth. In my many years of practice and study, I have learned that wisdom in buddhism isn't from learning, it is from living.

However, Vegas began saying things that were blatantly (no pun intended dude) incorrect. We who post, to share our knowledge and experince, must do so with the highest sense of responsibilty. We are creating understandings and impressions for people who may never have seen anything about our practice and possibly never see it again. Buddhism is very strict about this fact.

It is not something to be taken lightly if you are at all aware of these warnings to stick to the correct point. Who of you out there, even some of you who may chant would know if these things are right or wrong? You would assume that if they are put out there, with confidence and bluster that they must be true.

The first time I called him on anything was way back when he took it upon himself to explain Ichinen Sanzen, the theory of three thousand worlds in a momentary state of existence. It is the threory of "reality" so to speak. He was great at explaining some parts, as you can see I gave him superlatives for. But this concept, and the math that equates to the number 3,000, come from specific concepts and past, present and furture have nothing to do with it.

His definition was not correct, but not enough so to call him on it in front of the rest of you. When I asked where he had gotten his info for how he expressed it, I was surprised when he admitted that whenever he said, whatever he said, he never used reference materials.

"This is just how I remember and understand things. When I write, I just say whatever comes to my head". (This was in a phone conversation, but I still have all of his PM's, if anybody questions my integrtity on the truthfulness of my explaination)

He had no idea what the five components were (most people don't) or what the three realms were. No problem, I started to provide these definitions straight from the dictionary. I started to add more to make sure the liberal use of interpretations would somehow be backed up by fact, or that in the presence of having them out there, we would not be so susceptable to incorrect interpretations.

(Let me stop here to say, that I am in NO WAY implying or suggesting IN ANY WAY that I think he was full of shit or that everything he said was incorrect. I am letting you know where this began.)

Time went on. I cringed occasionally when he said certain things, but tried my best to even things out by adding what I could, when I saw something that could be misinterpreted. I loved him. He IS my brother. My purpose, as even he acknowledged, was always to protect him. But I began to hear things and read things that I had never heard in 31 years of practice and studying Buddhism.

He declared himself to be a Buddha. Frankly I know of no historical Buddha after Shakyamuni (the dude from India), that we consider to be a Buddha, that ever made a pronoucement of their enlightenment. I told him so, after I had tried to cover his ass with my post after that declaration.

Not even Nichiren ever declared in such straighforward words that he was a Buddha. Nor has Daisaku Ikeda, the most learned man of Buddhism still breathing air, ever declared himself a Buddha. Oh yes, I can go to page so and so in the Gosho, or in the Wisom of the Lotus Sutra, and read where in fact we are all Buddhas. We are. We have that inherent potential. The key is the process of bring it out.

It is a process of developing that as our fundamental life condition. It's not something to be bantered around in a manner that, to the non-believer, can be seen as a sign of "I know more than you!" or anything like that. Someone could hear such a statement without it's full explaination and immediately dismiss us as fanatic lunatics.

We now get to the end of the story. Last Friday I had three occasions to have input that I value, saying that we were talking over peoples heads and that we needed to tone things down. I called him at home, said let's think and chant about how to do that and then talk some more. I explained I had done some business with a sick friend and wasn't feeling well and was going to lay down. He wanted to keep talking, but I said "Dude I gotta lay down..I'm dizzy."

Next thing I know I wake up and go to the puter, and he has wailed out all of these posts. That kind of bent me because I saw again lots of small inaccuracies that weren't important enough to correct for the sake of you all, but there was this one HUGE one that he had thrown out there as a statement of fact that I could not let go by! "Knowing is more important than doing" This is fundamentally, absolutely incorrect.

I am going to post now so that I don't lose this. And will then continue

 

[PassTheDoobie]

Here is the rest of the story

Here is the rest of the story

(I am not going to violate the confidence of his Private Messages to me except for one sentence that is very telling)

Here is the outbound PM that I wrote when I woke up and read what he had posted:

"on your lat two posts, I would have maybe said some things differently, but this one:

Knowing is more important than doing

I do not agree with at all. Where are you coming from here brother? Sharihotsu is not what this practice is about. I'll shut up now to not waste energy until you have a chance to respond.

Love,

Tommy"

I went back to sleep and woke up the next day with another several posts just running on and on. The next thing I knew he was posting the fact that we were now holding an SGI meeting here on the thread. Just my opinion, but this is highly inappropriate! (Just as I will now finally say that to put a picture on here of the DaiGohonzon was also HIGHLY inappropriate)

None of you who jump in here to check this out have agreed to this, and my whole intention was for this thread to be a place where spirituality could be expressed, with respect for all that had something to say. At the same time I got a PM challenging my challenge of his assertions, so I just said, "OK where does it say this? I don't agree, and I will also point to you where it says that this is not so."

I also got a PM telling me where I should locate the Gohonzon in our new home in asia, and how to express things to my wife regarding our sexual relationship! I began reading his posts, and before I could answer his PM challenging "Knowing is more important than doing", I read and responded to the following:

"Pat,

I have tried finding this interpretation of Taho Buddha everywhere I can think to find it, and I can't find it. I have never heard of this interpretation before and it wasn't reflected as such when I checked the Wisdom of the Lotus Sutra Volume III, or in the Buddhist Dictionary or the On the Treasure Tower Gosho. Where did you find this? It is driving me crazy looking. Please share your resorce with me! If is in Volume III, what page is it on."

"Upon reading the Lotus Sutra, Nichiren understood the value of both wisdom and compassion. Compassion without wisdom is useless, and wisdom without compassion is just as useless. We need both equally balanced in our lives.

Nichiren Daishonin understood this and placed both of these Buddhas at the top of the gohonzon each flanking each other, each with two of the Four leaders of the Boddhisattvas of the earth for a total balance of our individual lives.

Wisdom without compassion is evil. No good can come of wisdom used for selfish needs. Wisdom guided by compassion on the other hand guides one to best understand how tp alleviate the suffering of another person. I ask myself, "What will it take for this person to be happy today?" That is wisdom tempered with compasion.

Compassion without wisdom is just as bad. But in it's basic form compassion is good. Compassion misdirected can create evil no matter what the intention. My granny used to say, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions!" It is not what we tried to do, it is our actual result that only matters. Tthat is the Real Cause and Effect, not the one we perceived it to be.

When I say to myself, "How can I help others to be as happy as me?" that is compassion tempered with wisdom.

Both are equally correct. That is why each flanks nam myoho renge kyo. Together they balance our lives and the lives of others. Both are necessary, but either one without the other becomes useless to ourself and others!"


<Taho Buddha is Many Treasures>

I got a response later that night that included this as the second sentence, "I believe it was also Nichiren that said I am the wisest person in all of japan and people despise me for that!"

Does anybody see where this is going yet? There was no place he could point to for the things he was saying except inside his head. To compare yourself to Nichiren Daishonin is not an appropriate thing for a believer to do. It was at this point that the conversation ended. I quit responding to the PM's. They were getting too wierd. When I did not respond, he became more concilliatory. He added MORE posts.

I could not figure out what to say on the thread. If you only know how many times I sat in front of this computer and just felt sick to my stomach. I loved this guy. I still do. I always will. But what is more important, his pride or your understanding? That is how I got myself into this. I wanted us to share understandings.

I have to make sure the things that are presented lead to correct understandings. That is why I type out texts from reference materials so often. It is what we have been taught to do. Look at how SoCal Hippy posts. I have NOTHING to do with what he posts. The way he does it is the way Nichiren Daishonin did it. He never wrote anything wthout quoting his source for his interpretation. Nor does Daisakyu Ikeda. THERE IS A DEFINITIVE RIGHT WAY AND WRONG WAY ESTABLISHED THROUGH EXAMPLE BY NICHIREN DAISHONIN HIMSELF!

So he offered through a PM to put a disclaimer on his posts. This isn't supposed to be anyone's pulpit. I asked with all of the reference materials that were available, why we would ever find it necessary to estalish new interpretations of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism? What kind of arrogance would be contained to think we had come up with divine wisdom that had somehow escaped the thorough discernment of his writing by genuine Buddhist scholars?

Why would we give explainations to questions that even Nichiren Daishonin did give when asked these same questions? Out of mercy for the incorrect thinking, (that is not my opinion but the basic teaching I have received for 31 years), I admonished him. I called him arrogant. I said I would not particapte in such a distortion of the truth based on his word alone that he had this special insight into their true meaning. I threatened to delete the thread so he could start a new one if that is what he insited on doing. I asked that if he was going to post that he keep to the teachings of our practice. No more free lance interpretations. If not I would delete this thing and stop it here.

Folks' I had no choice! Buddhism says if you don't step in the way of slander whether it's souce is intentional or unintentional, you are just as karmically accountable. I HAD NO CHOICE. My last sentence on that PM was, "This just makes me so fucking sad!"

And then, rather than face the music, or respond to me again, POOF! He was gone. One sentence goodbyes. No explainations. A separate email with the subject labled "gone" to say I had taught him a valuable lesson and nothing more. Good bye.

So yes Gurrl, this makes me sad. And Blatant the only hit will be if no one cares or is so dissallusioned that they quit reading. The biggest hit will be if you quit your chanting. If any of you do. Chant for Vegas, pray for him. Send him your warm thoughts and best wishes as I do. Let's hope this was just some sort of manic episode and something comes along to make things the way they were.

Except as is the truth in life, as HE HELPED RESTORE IN MY THINKING; as much as we might want it that way, it can never be. Past is past, now is now, the future is the future.

And the wheel keeps on turning.

Thomas (PLEASE don't lose faith!)

 

[Guest]

Correct Paths Will Always be OK

Correct Paths Will Always be OK

Hey Buddies!
I know to some this all seems so strange and in a sense, I guess that it is. Forget about Buddhism for a moment. We all go thru our daily lifes and we have some level of believe or faith or spirituality that supports us. Even as simple as looking for a parking place, and one comes open right on the front row, and we say "Thank You". Who are we thanking?
With that in mind, "I" believe that everything happens for a reason, there is reason for everyone being in our life. Sometimes its good, sometimes it's bad, sometimes it is a lesson we need to learn, sometimes it is some power that supports us and puts us in the right place at the right time. But no matter what our spirituality is that is not labeled with a specific name, ie christianity, buddhism, ram, etc, there are common threads or truths that tie us together and allow us to be able to communicate with one another and convey our feelings with understanding.
With that in mind, there are also common causes and effects that we all create. When bringing in a SPECIFIC truth of a SPECIFIC way of thinking such as Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism, we who try to follow in the strictness of the interpretations of the buddhist scholars, Know what is taught as truth and is what has made NamMYORengeKyo so powerful, protect it with all ours hearts. It can not be reinterpreted and taught to others in a fashion of personal interpretation. So basically it was a dispute of one who goes by the book and one who was off on a tangent that was not understood and questioned.
I'm sorry that Vegas felt the need to just disappear. My father always told me, be willing to stand up for what you believe and pay the price for doing so. If you cannot do that then you don't believe in what you say. And that is how I see all this.
Blatant, I'm glad you are hanging in.
Natty Natty Gurrl! How in the world would you think you did anything wrong. NOBODY did anything wrong. I still intend to send you an experience to hopefully encourage you in your personal challenge. My puter was down with hurricane.
We are all still the same energies on this site, who have enjoyed each others input. I look very forward after 16 hours to come in and read others comments and poems etc. I have been very busy with my line of work and don't have much time for anything else. You are all great! Southern Girl

 

[PassTheDoobie]

Everyone loves a happy ending

Everyone loves a happy ending

Well I'm doing my best to help provide one. My intense Daimoku to resolve this, has already provided a result! Thank your for all of your Daimoku and prayers. My brother called at 3 AM to leave a message on my cell, but I had woken up a few minutes earlier and answered the call. Turns out the Lion is a lot pussy cat, and I had really hurt his feelings which was not my intention, and I appologize publically for being an asshole. My prayer has been answered. Give me a few days, I hope to have him "home" soon. I had already planned a trip to see him to straighten this out this weekend. If we all keep the good vibes shooting out toward him, he'll be back here before then.

Thank you all!

Thomas

 

[SoCal Hippy]

I love happy endings

I love happy endings

Hello all

I got really bummed when I heard. Just like South Girl, I always would look forward to getting up and seeing the contributions and insights on this site from Everyone. Self reflection, study and sincere prayer were all some of the awesome results from my connection here. All components to deepening faith.

Initially, I had doubts about this format for fear of exactly what had happened. This is why I took so long to contribute my
'2 cents'. I had similar experiences when I would go to some chat rooms in the past and be totally misunderstood by the words I would type on the puter. Without life-to-life communication sometimes true meanings are lost,misunderstood and feelings are hurt.

But my faith in this has returned as seeing PTD's last post proves it once again. thanks to everyone for their united efforts and prayers. I believe there are many out there that have tried chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo from these efforts here on this site and that is a great and tremendous thing. Knowing that and the great good that comes from that, we should also know that for sure something negative like what has transpired would take place. It was bound to happen. I welcome Vegas back with open arms and look forward again to his contribution.

T'ien-t'ai says in the Maka Shikan, "As practice progresses and understanding grows, the three obstacles and four devils emerge, vying with one another to interfere". You should be neither influenced nor frightened by them. If you fall under their influence, you will be led into the paths of evil. If you are frightened by them, you will be prevented from practicing true Buddhism." In the "Kyodai Sho" (Letter to the Brothers), Nichiren Daishonin comments on T'ien-t'ai's words: "This quotation not only applies to Nichiren but also is the guide for his disciples"

I would like to end my post with some exerpts from "Buddhism in Daily Life", about 'Good Friends', or Good Influences in Buddhism (zenchishiki, or everyone here)

Ananda, one of Shakyamuni Buddha's closest disciples, once asked him: "It seems to me that by having good friends and advancing together with them, one has already halfway attained the Buddha way. Is this way of thinking correct?"

Shakyamuni replied, "Ananda, this way of thinking is not correct. Having good friends and advancing together with them is not half the Buddhist way but all the Buddhist way."

This may seem surprising, as Buddhism is often viewed as a solitary discipline in which other people might be seen as more of a hindrance than a help. However, to polish and improve our lives ultimately means to develop the quality of our interpersonal relationships--a far more challenging task than any solitary discipline. Our practice of Buddhism only finds meaning within the context of these relationships.

From another perspective, given that Buddhist practice of polishing and aiming to improve our lives from within is a constant challenge and a difficult process, it is only natural that we need support from others also dedicated to walking a correct path in life, trying also to create value in their lives.

Nicherin Daishonin wrote, "Even a feeble person will not stumble if those supporting him are strong, but a person of considerable strength, when alone, may lose his footing on an uneven path. . . ."

In Nichiren Buddhism, good friends are known as zenchishiki or good influences, while akuchishiki refers to bad influences. People affect each other in subtle and complex ways, and it is important to develop the ability to discern the nature of that influence. According to Buddhism, "bad" friends are those who encourage our weaknesses. In Nichiren's words: "Evil friends are those who, speaking sweetly, deceiving, flattering and making skillful use of words, win the hearts of the ignorant and destroy their goodness of mind."

A truly good friend is someone with the compassion and courage to tell us even those things we would prefer not to hear, which we must confront if we are to develop and grow in our lives.

Ultimately, however, whether people are good or evil influences in our lives is up to us. In Buddhist terms, the best kind of zenchishiki is one who leads us to strengthen our own faith and practice in order to thoroughly transform our karma. To quote Nichiren again, "the best way to attain Buddhahood is to encounter a zenchishiki, or good friend." Further, Nichiren comments that Devadatta, the cousin of Shakyamuni who tried to kill him and divide the Buddhist order, was "the foremost good friend to Thus Come One Shakyamuni. In this age as well, it is not one's allies, but one's powerful enemies who assist one's progress."

This expresses a key concept in Buddhism. Due to the immense transformative powers of Buddhist practice, even "bad" friends can have a good influence if we make our relationships with them into opportunities to examine, reform and strengthen our lives. The ideal is ultimately to develop the kind of all-encompassing compassion expressed by Nichiren when he wrote that his first desire was to lead to enlightenment the sovereign who had persecuted him, repeatedly exiling and even attempting to behead him.

Thanks to all my Zenchishiki's - SoCal

 

[Guest]

See I knew this would play itself out this way. Hey call me an optomist. I'm sure we'll see Vegas here in no time. Keep it up ya'll!

Blatant