Extract Craft Source Turbo

[Gray Wolf]

thanks Gray Wolf.
this part I still understand. altitude is connected to boiling point.

what I don´t understand is, why does it need the pressure differential?

I thought the pressure inside the chamber is all it needs to know. (reaching a certain vacuum at which the 105F temp will make the ethanol boil)

that vacuum, no matter at sea level or Mt Everest (on the outside of the source) is irrelevant as long as INSIDE there´s a certain pressure)

how exactly will the differential influence the machine?
(sorry, if I ask he wrong question, but I don´t quite understand)

what if the wrong altitude is used? eg. 8000f at sea level. what will happen? with temp, pressure and boiling?


I only know that the liquid is used to cool down the cup. (a kind of temp-control) and if the cup runs dry, the temp will shoot up too high.

sorry, I ´m lost

How could you measure absolute pressure with no reference zero?

It is true that liquids boil at specific temperatures, based on how much atmospheric pressure is on them. Consider atmospheric pressure as a column of air one inch square, that reaches from the ground at sea level, to the outer extremes of the atmosphere and weighing the same as a one square inch X 29.92" column of Mercury, or about 14.7 pounds on that square inch.

Now consider how much the remaining column weighs if you are sitting on top of a mountain, using the attached chart.

Bourdon gauges are typically used to measure pressure. Here is a link to how they work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE_n1lCuz30

As you can see they are simply measuring the difference in pressure on the inside and outside of the coiled tube.

There are absolute measurement in$trument$, that use an internal reference, but even those have to be calibrated regularly to retain accuracy. Consider that the internal reference has to be close to absolute zero, or at 14.7psi.

To complicate it of course, atmospheric pressure at sea level also is at a reference temperature, because it varies as a function of temperature, with hot air being less dense and weighing less than cold.

Soooooo, what Extract Craft did, was reference their machines to sea level and if you are above about 1000ft as I recall, you need to re-reference it, because your machine will be looking to achieve a pressure differential that it won't be able to reach, cause it isn't there.

 

[druida.420]

@Gray Wolf ... Your posts never disappoint ! Like always ... Awesome read !

Thanks !

 

[Defacto]

I am late o the party but am glad that I discovered the source turbo.

When i went looking for more information I was doubly surprised.

One, that the source turbo has been around 5 years already.

Two, so few have yet to come to love it!

(As usual, Gray Wolf showed the way early on, lol.)

 

[Max Q]

source Turbo

source Turbo

I've got one.... it works as claimed.

Pros:
Safe to use at home for amateurs like me

Excellent ethanol recovery


Cons:
Very slow... running 2 quart jars of Tincture is an all day long proposition.....crucible only holds 300ml at a time

No adjustable timer control... when the machine turns on it runs for two hours.... you have to manually reset the machine for each two hour increment....with experience you begin to know how long the distillation takes, but there is no way to set a timer for the right time...only 2 hours

The App does not allow you to run in "Turbo" mode, this can only be done manually.... the only good thing about the app is you can see how much time is left before you need to go and manually reset....which you could do with a kitchen timer....

The yield from a day Loooong run of 2 quarts of tincture is disappointingly small (IMHO) for the amount of time invested....

Overall.... I would recommend it for home use (knowing you're only going to be doing very small batches)... it works as promised... no question.

I'm thinking about the etho Pro.... but it is quite pricey.....

 

[Gray Wolf]

I'm currently testing the EtOH Pro, which will process about a half gallon at a time. I've run six batches so far without issue and will next try their auxiliary lid that allows me to us it as a heated vacuum chamber for finishing.

 

[unregistered190]

Cool deal GW!

My only grief with the turbo is the capacity which like Max stated takes quite a bit of time to just process 300ml.

Most folks like the pro version as far as I can tell, they were just coming out when I purchased my turbo.

 

[Gray Wolf]

We got the original EtOH for beta testing but Eloquentsolution had the pleasure of putting it through its paces. I wasn't involved with that test but she was favorably impressed.

This is my first shot at it and it made short work of this years personal C-99/NL crop. It works out that a half gallon fruit jar 80% full of buds, still holds about a 1.75L of Everclear, which is a perfect size for an EtOh run without having to change recovery jars mid process.

I'm currently working on some 2017 material I had forgotten about in the curing cabinet and should have a dozen runs on it for this test. I will be skipping the final evaporation with these runs because it is way too sedative for dabbing.

By the third run I had the timing of "now" down, which is when to turn it off and pour early so as to not leave a heavy thick film in the pot, and have been finishing off in Pyrex casserole/pie plates in a thin film and saving that concentrate for vacuum purge trials.

We are snowed in so I haven't gone down to the UPS store to pickup of the auxiliary lid they sent me for using the EtOH as a vacuum purge chamber. If that feature works, it should add to the EtOH Pro's utility at the margin.

I have no doubt I could make it in the Jeep, but would first have to dig it out, clean it off, and deice it. I'm lazy in my dotage and after digging out our front and side doors, would rather let Ma Nature do that work for me as long as there is no exigency.

 

[Defacto]

One of the joys of unemployment (retirement) is not having to face inclement weather.

Source Turbo is incredible! Vaping 100% cannabis oil is another one of those
"you can't go back" to the old way of doing things. (low test cartridges)

 

[Gray Wolf]

Hee, hee, hee, my hydrometer arrived and I made two runs in the EtOH Pro starting with 80 proof vodka and got it up to 150 proof the first pass and 170 proof the second. I'll make some more runs and when my Drierite arrives, see how concentrated we can get the alcohol.

 

[flylowgethigh]

Glad to see you well and still busy in the lab, professor Graywolf.

 

[JRace]

I am suddenly having serious issues with my Source Turbo,
after less than 1 hour the entire contents of the crucible end up in the collection vessel.

I am awaiting response from Extract Craft.

Anyone else have the same issue?

On the plus side, their initial response was very fast <2hrs.

 

[Dawn Patrol]

I am suddenly having serious issues with my Source Turbo,
after less than 1 hour the entire contents of the crucible end up in the collection vessel.

I am awaiting response from Extract Craft.

Anyone else have the same issue?

On the plus side, their initial response was very fast <2hrs.

that has happened to me but usually only after I've added additional wash to a reduced wash and run in turbo mode.

The other thing I've noticed is that the cleaner (or more filtered) your wash is the less I see this issue.

Your elevation may compound that effect (I'm literally at sea level) but I'd also be interested to hear what Extract Craft had to say.

 

[JRace]

Extract craft has said that because my method differs from their method they cannot support me.
Despite my method not changing - and the problem never occurring before.

Until I have time and product to do it their way I will not be able to get more support from them regarding this issue.

My method:

Using a "Iso3" machine I do a soxhlet-type extraction with 400ml ethanol to 100gram cannabis.

They are of the opinion that I am using far too little ethanol and that is the problem.
Again, my method has not changed from when I got the source until now.

--Yes, I realize that most would not do this type of extraction. I use it for making capsules for a chronic pain patient, and for a stage-4 lung cancer patient.
Both have stated that the beneficial effects are far greater with this type of extract that with a "cleaner purer" extract.
(pain reduction, stress reduction, improved sleep)

I do not fault source for not wanting to support my method, although I am unsure why now is is an issue.

 

[unregistered190]

How many previous runs were successful using that method?
Something has had to change:

product not as clean
running in turbo vs normal
elevation setting
source not regulating heat correct

that’s all I can think of, hope you get it sorted soon!

 

[Gray Wolf]

Extract craft has said that because my method differs from their method they cannot support me.
Despite my method not changing - and the problem never occurring before.

Until I have time and product to do it their way I will not be able to get more support from them regarding this issue.

My method:

Using a "Iso3" machine I do a soxhlet-type extraction with 400ml ethanol to 100gram cannabis.

They are of the opinion that I am using far too little ethanol and that is the problem.
Again, my method has not changed from when I got the source until now.

--Yes, I realize that most would not do this type of extraction. I use it for making capsules for a chronic pain patient, and for a stage-4 lung cancer patient.
Both have stated that the beneficial effects are far greater with this type of extract that with a "cleaner purer" extract.
(pain reduction, stress reduction, improved sleep)

I do not fault source for not wanting to support my method, although I am unsure why now is is an issue.

Could you elaborate? What is the Turbo not doing and why does Extract Craft say your method won't work?

 

[JRace]

How many previous runs were successful using that method?
Something has had to change:

product not as clean
running in turbo vs normal
elevation setting
source not regulating heat correct

that’s all I can think of, hope you get it sorted soon!

I have run anywhere from 20-40 runs successfully.
Product is different, but every run has always been different - different crop, different strain.
All runs have been a mixture of small popcorn indoor, full plant outdoor (except stems)
-Happens in both turbo and normal
-My location did change,
-- Old was at 800ft above see level (source set to 1000ft)
-- New is at 1700FT above see level (source set to 2000ft)

Could you elaborate? What is the Turbo not doing and why does Extract Craft say your method won't work?

What is happening is that between 30m - 1hr of run time the product inside the crucible bubbles up, hits the lid and runs down into the clean ethanol.
Response from Extract Craft:

400ml of alcohol would be an extremely small amount to extract from 100grams with. Usually you would use about 350ml to extract from 28 grams. It sounds like you may be making a wash that won't be compatible with our units.
Usually you would just get all your starting material cold first. Then you would combine them anywhere from 1 minute to an hour. From there you would filter the material out and run the filtered solution. Is there a reason you are using such a small amount of alcohol? 400ml would not be sufficient to pull out all the desirables from that much plant material.

My understanding is the Soxhlet process enables one to use far less ethanol.
I am also doing a "hot" wash and not a "cold" wash, so I expect there to be far more "undesirables" in the end product.
--Again, as that is the product that my users want that is what I make. It is for oral consumption, not for inhalation.

My product that goes into the source at most 3/4 of the way to the "top" line in the crucible.

Perhaps the mixture is too high in solids - when I have a chance I will test with
1) The Source method as described in there manual (esssentiall QWET)
2) My method, but split the product into 2 batches with extra ethanol added to the crucible.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I have run anywhere from 20-40 runs successfully.
Product is different, but every run has always been different - different crop, different strain.
All runs have been a mixture of small popcorn indoor, full plant outdoor (except stems)
-Happens in both turbo and normal
-My location did change,
-- Old was at 800ft above see level (source set to 1000ft)
-- New is at 1700FT above see level (source set to 2000ft)



What is happening is that between 30m - 1hr of run time the product inside the crucible bubbles up, hits the lid and runs down into the clean ethanol.
Response from Extract Craft:


My understanding is the Soxhlet process enables one to use far less ethanol.
I am also doing a "hot" wash and not a "cold" wash, so I expect there to be far more "undesirables" in the end product.
--Again, as that is the product that my users want that is what I make. It is for oral consumption, not for inhalation.

My product that goes into the source at most 3/4 of the way to the "top" line in the crucible.

Perhaps the mixture is too high in solids - when I have a chance I will test with
1) The Source method as described in there manual (esssentiall QWET)
2) My method, but split the product into 2 batches with extra ethanol added to the crucible.

I'll see what I can learn from Extract Craft and get back, but from my experience excessive boiling rate is a combination of heat input at a specific atmospheric pressure. The Turbo heat input is fixed so we have only the pressure to play with. The Turbo measures differential pressure versus absolute pressure, soooo I would lie to it about pressure and see what happens.

As ostensibly there is too little pressure for the heat input, I would start by telling it is at 3000 feet and see what happens. I would also make sure it acknowledges your new setting, as your moving from 800 feet to 1700 feet would account for the problem if it actually stayed set at 1000 feet.

 

[IchiBanCrafter]

I have run anywhere from 20-40 runs successfully.
Product is different, but every run has always been different - different crop, different strain.
All runs have been a mixture of small popcorn indoor, full plant outdoor (except stems)
-Happens in both turbo and normal
-My location did change,
-- Old was at 800ft above see level (source set to 1000ft)
-- New is at 1700FT above see level (source set to 2000ft)



What is happening is that between 30m - 1hr of run time the product inside the crucible bubbles up, hits the lid and runs down into the clean ethanol.
Response from Extract Craft:


My understanding is the Soxhlet process enables one to use far less ethanol.
I am also doing a "hot" wash and not a "cold" wash, so I expect there to be far more "undesirables" in the end product.
--Again, as that is the product that my users want that is what I make. It is for oral consumption, not for inhalation.

My product that goes into the source at most 3/4 of the way to the "top" line in the crucible.

Perhaps the mixture is too high in solids - when I have a chance I will test with
1) The Source method as described in there manual (esssentiall QWET)
2) My method, but split the product into 2 batches with extra ethanol added to the crucible.

What customer service told you unfortunately is correct. The ExtractCraft equipment is designed to work with clean tinctures, this is how they are tuned. The operational parameters are detailed in the user manual. I'm sorry to say but what you are loading into the machine is far too thick and plant material heavy to allow for even heat dispersion and ethanol phase change. With a normal clean tincture the ethanol is heated by the crucible and the energy is able to escape by evaporating and later collecting in recovery vessel (just like a rotovap). If you put something that is not only carrying far too much oil for a normal run like described in the user manual but also a lot of plant matter collected by doing a hot wash you will create an inversion, working against the heat release process I just described. What that means is the top heavy layer will be a bit cooler and heavy while the crucible delivers heat to evaporate the ethanol, but the ethanol vapor pressure builds under the inversion and continues to build until it has enough power to bust through the heavy and think liquid that was loaded. The best example or image I can give you is the difference of boiling water and boiling pasta sauce. If you heat pasta sauce with too much heat it splatters, same concept. I understand you seem to want to do this your own way using a hot wash, the ISO3, then the Source Turbo but unfortunately that is just not a realistic process. Even with a roto vap you are going to end up with a bumping mess. I'm sure you have your reason for trying to execute the extraction in the method you have chosen but I would kindly advise that it may be quite excessive. You can find some detailed information on the processes of making cleaner and more potent extracts with ethanol on www.extractcrafter.com if you are interested. Otherwise, the only way I can think of to purge the extraction you are currently making would be open air evaporation on a warming pad with a fan? I hope this helps.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Good insight! Thanks!

JR, was the mixture boiling so violently that it reached the lid, or was it bumping explosively so that the burst coated the lid and walls??

 

[JRace]

Good insight! Thanks!

JR, was the mixture boiling so violently that it reached the lid, or was it bumping explosively so that the burst coated the lid and walls??

Seemed to boil violently up to the lid.

--
Thanks for the input IchibanCrafter.

I do understand that my process is part of the issue, but it remains a mystery as to why now, after many successful runs, does this occur.

I am interested to see what results I will have with a higher altitude setting.