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    #76
    all extracts have medicinal use
    whole plant extracts are most common in herbal medicines cause they can treat so many ailments at the same time..
    herbalists often fine tune the medicine to suite the body type of the sufferer, and to be most effective against the ailments of sufferance. this is partly achieved by the choice of solvent used..eg..
    rso is a petroleum ether extract, which wont get much terpene or flavonoidz so thats why its so high in THC.... pet ether is more selective for cannabinoids and less selective for Flavonoids and terpenes..

    this is from a ebook i wrote about Medicinal Cannabis Therapy using QCW..

    Many solvents will take up "resin", meaning a mix of cannabinoids and terpenes.
    A "complete" medicinal extract is a three part synergy of cannabinoids, terpenoids and flavi(o)noids, which is the third component of Cannabis synergism of the entourage effect. The flavi(o)noids, often called bioflavinoids, are represented in Cannabis by common Vegetable compounds such as Quercetin and Rutin all have well documented medicinal beneficial effects along with many others including cannflavin A & B. Of most importance is the extraction of the flavi(o)noid fraction for a Whole Plant Extract.

    Whole Plant Extract

    I bring this up to stress the importance of the synergy of the three significant therapeutic classes of compounds. The entourage effect. Whole Plant Extractions for medical use should take up all three families of medicine with great efficiency.... and,,,, minimize the amount of chlorophyll’s, concrete oils and waxes that have little or no therapeutic value.
    Ethanol is a solvent that will take up all three medicinal fractions.
    Why not hexane, dichloromethane, diethyl pet ether, acetone, iso.....etc? Each has it's benefits and it's drawbacks such as too selective, too toxic, too non selective.
    Ethanol also when used in a typical extraction has some of the same drawbacks, but Ethanol remains a solvent that will take up all three medicinal fractions. The problem with ethanol is, it's too non-selective.. Ethanol takes up chlorophyll and other undesirable fractions that make it's oils and tinctures "green" and bitter.

    The answer lies in changing the traits of ethanol and making it very selective for a whole plant extract, and very non-selective for the other crud. This is easily achieved by freezer-cooling ethanol and the product to extract, then doing a 3minute wash and freezing cold rinse. This is called the Quick, Cold Wash. When very cold and with high quality buds, a near clear extract/tincture can be easily made in minutes.
    Ethanol is a relatively safe solvent of which characteristics can be manipulated with temperature to be highly selective for medicinal compounds, while leaving undesirable waxes, chlorophyll and concrete oils behind. Ethanol is a powerful stripper of the cannabinoids and terpenes, and the most noted solvent for working with the flavinoids, quercetin and rutin and is noted in the extraction of flavines and flavones. While other solvents are noted also,
    Ethanol is the only one which is non-toxic, when used medicinally, and can be manipulated by very low temperature to not take up waxes, chlorophyll and concrete oils to achieve a pure Whole Plant Medicinal Extract..

    Comment


      #77
      Originally posted by Symbiotic AD View Post
      If you have the capability of doing a CO2 extraction would you still suggest QWET extraction for making the HS oil? Or can you accomplish the same effects using other extraction methods?

      I had a patient ask me if I made RSO capsules, in particular with everclear then infused into coconut oil, as that is what helps her with her chronic asthma (This patient has never smoked). I assumed that a product made with a different extract method would have similar efficacy since it is the cannabinoids at higher concentrations that are helping the patient, and the coconut oil is an anti-inflammatory. In this situation I also assumed I could use oil extracted using a CO2 extraction to then create the capsules, am I wrong in assuming this? I want to provide the patients with exactly what helps them, but would prefer to use a more standardized methodology with the equipment I have available.

      As always, with me being new to this, I appreciate all of the information that every person here provides. My cannabis specific knowledge has literally skyrocketed with this resource.
      The fish trap exists only because of the fish. The fish in this case are the cannabinoids, terpenes, and flavanoids, which either process can extract.

      I actually use butane to extract most of ours, but like CO2, it requires an investment in equipment to do it efficiently and safely, hence my choice of Ethanol for a small scale operation.

      As has been noted, holding on to the shorter chain molecules during purge is the challenge, as they can exit with the solvent.
      An age is called Dark not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.

      Believing is seeing and ignorance is bliss until it bites you in the ass!

      Fervor is the weapon of the impotent. The harder the sell, the poorer the product.

      Alas, my ignorance abounds; the more I've learned, the less I know that I know..........

      Thou shalt seek and respect the opinions of operators, even unto the third helper, for theirs is a wisdom unknown to technicrats.

      Wise men learn more from fools, than fools from wise men.

      In my dotage I finally discovered that the secret to putting on pants both legs at a time is sitting down.


      https://graywolfslair.com/

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by Gray Wolf View Post
        The fish trap exists only because of the fish. The fish in this case are the cannabinoids, terpenes, and flavanoids, which either process can extract.

        I actually use butane to extract most of ours, but like CO2, it requires an investment in equipment to do it efficiently and safely, hence my choice of Ethanol for a small scale operation.

        As has been noted, holding on to the shorter chain molecules during purge is the challenge, as they can exit with the solvent.
        Thank you for the great philosophy behind extractions. I really do like that analogy. I currently have a SFE system and a CLS for light hydrocarbons, and our lab is currently being built. I understand the purging of light hydrocarbons, but do not fully understand which short chain molecules will be lost during purging of CO2.

        Are you speaking of the therapeutic terpenes that will be lost, due to ambient temps of the room during venting out the oil?

        Truthfully I haven't been able to familiarize myself with the CO2 oil as much as I would have liked, and have not gone through the purging process, or the winterization. These are two things I am actively trying to research prior to opening our doors, but having little success outside of paying somebody a copious amount of money for consulting. (sorry for derailing here, if anybody can speak with me about it I think I can PM now.)

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by Symbiotic AD View Post
          Thank you for the great philosophy behind extractions. I really do like that analogy. I currently have a SFE system and a CLS for light hydrocarbons, and our lab is currently being built. I understand the purging of light hydrocarbons, but do not fully understand which short chain molecules will be lost during purging of CO2.

          Are you speaking of the therapeutic terpenes that will be lost, due to ambient temps of the room during venting out the oil?

          Truthfully I haven't been able to familiarize myself with the CO2 oil as much as I would have liked, and have not gone through the purging process, or the winterization. These are two things I am actively trying to research prior to opening our doors, but having little success outside of paying somebody a copious amount of money for consulting. (sorry for derailing here, if anybody can speak with me about it I think I can PM now.)
          I'm refering to the monoterpenes lost during purging. With a CO2 system, they can be fractionated off during decompression and preserved for reintroduction.
          An age is called Dark not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.

          Believing is seeing and ignorance is bliss until it bites you in the ass!

          Fervor is the weapon of the impotent. The harder the sell, the poorer the product.

          Alas, my ignorance abounds; the more I've learned, the less I know that I know..........

          Thou shalt seek and respect the opinions of operators, even unto the third helper, for theirs is a wisdom unknown to technicrats.

          Wise men learn more from fools, than fools from wise men.

          In my dotage I finally discovered that the secret to putting on pants both legs at a time is sitting down.


          https://graywolfslair.com/

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by Gray Wolf View Post
            I'm refering to the monoterpenes lost during purging. With a CO2 system, they can be fractionated off during decompression and preserved for reintroduction.
            Yes I am familiar with that. Again I haven't been able to actually apply it, but this is something I have every intention of learning.

            Comment


              #81
              Awsome I am gonna bump this in hopes that it finds the sick and those in need.

              LT
              LostTribe

              C99 The Ultimate Search and Rescue Mission
              https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=334331

              Treating Cancer with Concentrates
              https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=301121

              Comment


                #82
                Here is one for you GDubb aloha!

                What is your preferred strain for use with treatments? Has anyone tried mixing sativas with indicas for that matter and would there be a difference?

                LT
                LostTribe

                C99 The Ultimate Search and Rescue Mission
                https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=334331

                Treating Cancer with Concentrates
                https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=301121

                Comment


                  #83
                  I think it is safe to say a mix of strains would be most effective. Since we don't know everything about cannabis yet, I would say a diverse profile is first choice.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by LostTribe View Post
                    Here is one for you GDubb aloha!

                    What is your preferred strain for use with treatments? Has anyone tried mixing sativas with indicas for that matter and would there be a difference?

                    LT
                    I depends on what we are treating. For my own use, I still like the original Trainwreck.
                    An age is called Dark not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.

                    Believing is seeing and ignorance is bliss until it bites you in the ass!

                    Fervor is the weapon of the impotent. The harder the sell, the poorer the product.

                    Alas, my ignorance abounds; the more I've learned, the less I know that I know..........

                    Thou shalt seek and respect the opinions of operators, even unto the third helper, for theirs is a wisdom unknown to technicrats.

                    Wise men learn more from fools, than fools from wise men.

                    In my dotage I finally discovered that the secret to putting on pants both legs at a time is sitting down.


                    https://graywolfslair.com/

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by Gray Wolf View Post
                      I depends on what we are treating. For my own use, I still like the original Trainwreck.
                      GW that is certainly an interesting selection high in thc and certainly other cannaboids as well.
                      LostTribe

                      C99 The Ultimate Search and Rescue Mission
                      https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=334331

                      Treating Cancer with Concentrates
                      https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=301121

                      Comment


                        #86
                        great thread!

                        . c a n n a b i s . s a v e d . m y . l i f e .

                        <3.F.U.C.K.E.M.F.A.M.<3

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by Gray Wolf View Post
                          Thanks for the insight GG!

                          A little insight into the meaning of the name RSO locally, just to put things in perspective! It means oil extracted using naphtha to extract and a rice cooker to purge.

                          Typically still containing residual solvent beyond FDA 5000 PPM limits, for even Class III solvents, but actually typically containing Class I solvents like benzene from the Varnish and Paint Makers "pharmaceutical grade" Rick recommends, and which the FDA says should be avoided and limited to 2 ppm in the best of circumstances.

                          Kudos and accolades to Rick for his contributions and sacrifices, because we are with out question indebted to him for suffering the sacrifices for leading the way.

                          Using the term RSO does present problems in communication however, because I don't advocate the use of naphtha for extraction, due to the carcinogenic nature of some of its constituents.

                          If we are indeed talking about RSO extracted using Naphtha, I recommend not using it, unless death is your other alternative.

                          No firm fixed data, just the tongue in cheek reluctance to tempt my immune system with other carcinogens, most especially if it is already struggling with what it already has?

                          If we are using RSO as a term to simply and rightfully honor Rick, may I suggest that it is a nice gesture, but only adds confusion on this forum at this stage of evolution in cannabis concentrates extraction and processing.

                          Extracting with carcinogens because there is no other available alternative at a given patients snapshot in time, is a different issue than the situation most of us find ourselves in, and what I personally recommend if there are more salubrious alternatives.

                          May we agree that by what ever name we hail undeniably hot Mary, it is she of whom we speak, and the most effective process of delivering her uncontaminated charms is what we seek?

                          In that line of thought, may we not unintentionally direct noobes toward Rick's Napha process, by including concentrates that were used several thousand years before Rick, or more salubrious ones formulated since then, under the generic term RSO?
                          Hi Gray Wolf! I was recommended to this forum and hear you are very knowledgable. I have stage 4 appendix cancer and I have been using organic "RSO" that was made with grain alcohol as a solvent. I don't have a lot of cancer. A few small spots in my abdomen and one very small spot on my liver. This is a recurrence. I worked up to a gram a day via suppository. I had to stop using it due to unbearable pain in my liver. I used it for a little over two months. Other than the little spot on my liver getting slightly bigger, there was no change in my scans in a three month span. I feel I am on the right track, but not with the RSO as it shouldn't cause liver issues. Someone mentioned intervening swelling... Ok, from what? The residual hydrocarbons? I don't know if I will ever get an answer to that question, and believe me, I have been on a mission to find out to no avail. I was turned on to the short path, solvent free distillation process recently and wanted to get your thoughts on this. Can I use is the same way I used the RSO (I mixed the RSO 50/50 with coconut oil and filled syringes)? The short path product I can get is organic (pesticide and fungicide free) and was tested at 91.5% THC. I prefer the suppository method because the bioavailability is much higher than taking it orally and it bypasses the liver to avoid getting completely and utterly out of my mind high! Do you think the protocol would be the same (60 grams in 90 days, starting small and working my way up to 1 gram a day)? I really feel that cannabis can minumly keep this cancer at bay, I just need the right product. Thanks for your time!

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by Heyhair View Post
                            Hi Gray Wolf! I was recommended to this forum and hear you are very knowledgable. I have stage 4 appendix cancer and I have been using organic "RSO" that was made with grain alcohol as a solvent. I don't have a lot of cancer. A few small spots in my abdomen and one very small spot on my liver. This is a recurrence. I worked up to a gram a day via suppository. I had to stop using it due to unbearable pain in my liver. I used it for a little over two months. Other than the little spot on my liver getting slightly bigger, there was no change in my scans in a three month span. I feel I am on the right track, but not with the RSO as it shouldn't cause liver issues. Someone mentioned intervening swelling... Ok, from what? The residual hydrocarbons? I don't know if I will ever get an answer to that question, and believe me, I have been on a mission to find out to no avail. I was turned on to the short path, solvent free distillation process recently and wanted to get your thoughts on this. Can I use is the same way I used the RSO (I mixed the RSO 50/50 with coconut oil and filled syringes)? The short path product I can get is organic (pesticide and fungicide free) and was tested at 91.5% THC. I prefer the suppository method because the bioavailability is much higher than taking it orally and it bypasses the liver to avoid getting completely and utterly out of my mind high! Do you think the protocol would be the same (60 grams in 90 days, starting small and working my way up to 1 gram a day)? I really feel that cannabis can minumly keep this cancer at bay, I just need the right product. Thanks for your time!
                            We used the same dosage protocol for suppositories as for oral meds, and that was to get the patient's tolerance built to 1 gram per day for 60 days, or until the tumor is gone. Our meds are based on an Absolute, which typically has cannabinoids in the high 80's to low 90's percentile.

                            We buy disposable molds and use coconut butter and cannabis absolute for the suppository.
                            An age is called Dark not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.

                            Believing is seeing and ignorance is bliss until it bites you in the ass!

                            Fervor is the weapon of the impotent. The harder the sell, the poorer the product.

                            Alas, my ignorance abounds; the more I've learned, the less I know that I know..........

                            Thou shalt seek and respect the opinions of operators, even unto the third helper, for theirs is a wisdom unknown to technicrats.

                            Wise men learn more from fools, than fools from wise men.

                            In my dotage I finally discovered that the secret to putting on pants both legs at a time is sitting down.


                            https://graywolfslair.com/

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Thanks for the reply So, I would assume that it is important with the short path solvent free distillation method to use a carrier oil as well? Do you recommend ingesting coconut oil 30 minutes prior and at dosing? Also, is it necessary to use a carrier oil? I guess I am asking if this oil is as thick and tar like as RSO?

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by Heyhair View Post
                                Thanks for the reply So, I would assume that it is important with the short path solvent free distillation method to use a carrier oil as well? Do you recommend ingesting coconut oil 30 minutes prior and at dosing? Also, is it necessary to use a carrier oil? I guess I am asking if this oil is as thick and tar like as RSO?
                                For suppositories, the coco butter acts as the carrier oil.

                                For oral or sub lingual, the decarboxylated oil is loose, but not enough without cutting it some.

                                I've used 190 proof ethanol for the purpose, and added drops to milk drinks, as well as supplied it dissolved in various vegetable and nut oils, but usually use the HS or HAO recipe.

                                That adds both enhancements making the cannabinoids more effective, and the coconut oil ties up the liver processing it, so that the cannabinoids hang around longer.
                                An age is called Dark not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.

                                Believing is seeing and ignorance is bliss until it bites you in the ass!

                                Fervor is the weapon of the impotent. The harder the sell, the poorer the product.

                                Alas, my ignorance abounds; the more I've learned, the less I know that I know..........

                                Thou shalt seek and respect the opinions of operators, even unto the third helper, for theirs is a wisdom unknown to technicrats.

                                Wise men learn more from fools, than fools from wise men.

                                In my dotage I finally discovered that the secret to putting on pants both legs at a time is sitting down.


                                https://graywolfslair.com/

                                Comment

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