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  • jswick93
    replied
    I think it is safe to say a mix of strains would be most effective. Since we don't know everything about cannabis yet, I would say a diverse profile is first choice.

    Leave a comment:


  • LostTribe
    replied
    Here is one for you GDubb aloha!

    What is your preferred strain for use with treatments? Has anyone tried mixing sativas with indicas for that matter and would there be a difference?

    LT

    Leave a comment:


  • LostTribe
    replied
    Awsome I am gonna bump this in hopes that it finds the sick and those in need.

    LT

    Leave a comment:


  • Symbiotic AD
    replied
    Originally posted by Gray Wolf View Post
    I'm refering to the monoterpenes lost during purging. With a CO2 system, they can be fractionated off during decompression and preserved for reintroduction.
    Yes I am familiar with that. Again I haven't been able to actually apply it, but this is something I have every intention of learning.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gray Wolf
    replied
    Originally posted by Symbiotic AD View Post
    Thank you for the great philosophy behind extractions. I really do like that analogy. I currently have a SFE system and a CLS for light hydrocarbons, and our lab is currently being built. I understand the purging of light hydrocarbons, but do not fully understand which short chain molecules will be lost during purging of CO2.

    Are you speaking of the therapeutic terpenes that will be lost, due to ambient temps of the room during venting out the oil?

    Truthfully I haven't been able to familiarize myself with the CO2 oil as much as I would have liked, and have not gone through the purging process, or the winterization. These are two things I am actively trying to research prior to opening our doors, but having little success outside of paying somebody a copious amount of money for consulting. (sorry for derailing here, if anybody can speak with me about it I think I can PM now.)
    I'm refering to the monoterpenes lost during purging. With a CO2 system, they can be fractionated off during decompression and preserved for reintroduction.

    Leave a comment:


  • Symbiotic AD
    replied
    Originally posted by Gray Wolf View Post
    The fish trap exists only because of the fish. The fish in this case are the cannabinoids, terpenes, and flavanoids, which either process can extract.

    I actually use butane to extract most of ours, but like CO2, it requires an investment in equipment to do it efficiently and safely, hence my choice of Ethanol for a small scale operation.

    As has been noted, holding on to the shorter chain molecules during purge is the challenge, as they can exit with the solvent.
    Thank you for the great philosophy behind extractions. I really do like that analogy. I currently have a SFE system and a CLS for light hydrocarbons, and our lab is currently being built. I understand the purging of light hydrocarbons, but do not fully understand which short chain molecules will be lost during purging of CO2.

    Are you speaking of the therapeutic terpenes that will be lost, due to ambient temps of the room during venting out the oil?

    Truthfully I haven't been able to familiarize myself with the CO2 oil as much as I would have liked, and have not gone through the purging process, or the winterization. These are two things I am actively trying to research prior to opening our doors, but having little success outside of paying somebody a copious amount of money for consulting. (sorry for derailing here, if anybody can speak with me about it I think I can PM now.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Gray Wolf
    replied
    Originally posted by Symbiotic AD View Post
    If you have the capability of doing a CO2 extraction would you still suggest QWET extraction for making the HS oil? Or can you accomplish the same effects using other extraction methods?

    I had a patient ask me if I made RSO capsules, in particular with everclear then infused into coconut oil, as that is what helps her with her chronic asthma (This patient has never smoked). I assumed that a product made with a different extract method would have similar efficacy since it is the cannabinoids at higher concentrations that are helping the patient, and the coconut oil is an anti-inflammatory. In this situation I also assumed I could use oil extracted using a CO2 extraction to then create the capsules, am I wrong in assuming this? I want to provide the patients with exactly what helps them, but would prefer to use a more standardized methodology with the equipment I have available.

    As always, with me being new to this, I appreciate all of the information that every person here provides. My cannabis specific knowledge has literally skyrocketed with this resource.
    The fish trap exists only because of the fish. The fish in this case are the cannabinoids, terpenes, and flavanoids, which either process can extract.

    I actually use butane to extract most of ours, but like CO2, it requires an investment in equipment to do it efficiently and safely, hence my choice of Ethanol for a small scale operation.

    As has been noted, holding on to the shorter chain molecules during purge is the challenge, as they can exit with the solvent.

    Leave a comment:


  • Radic
    replied
    all extracts have medicinal use
    whole plant extracts are most common in herbal medicines cause they can treat so many ailments at the same time..
    herbalists often fine tune the medicine to suite the body type of the sufferer, and to be most effective against the ailments of sufferance. this is partly achieved by the choice of solvent used..eg..
    rso is a petroleum ether extract, which wont get much terpene or flavonoidz so thats why its so high in THC.... pet ether is more selective for cannabinoids and less selective for Flavonoids and terpenes..

    this is from a ebook i wrote about Medicinal Cannabis Therapy using QCW..

    Many solvents will take up "resin", meaning a mix of cannabinoids and terpenes.
    A "complete" medicinal extract is a three part synergy of cannabinoids, terpenoids and flavi(o)noids, which is the third component of Cannabis synergism of the entourage effect. The flavi(o)noids, often called bioflavinoids, are represented in Cannabis by common Vegetable compounds such as Quercetin and Rutin all have well documented medicinal beneficial effects along with many others including cannflavin A & B. Of most importance is the extraction of the flavi(o)noid fraction for a Whole Plant Extract.

    Whole Plant Extract

    I bring this up to stress the importance of the synergy of the three significant therapeutic classes of compounds. The entourage effect. Whole Plant Extractions for medical use should take up all three families of medicine with great efficiency.... and,,,, minimize the amount of chlorophyll’s, concrete oils and waxes that have little or no therapeutic value.
    Ethanol is a solvent that will take up all three medicinal fractions.
    Why not hexane, dichloromethane, diethyl pet ether, acetone, iso.....etc? Each has it's benefits and it's drawbacks such as too selective, too toxic, too non selective.
    Ethanol also when used in a typical extraction has some of the same drawbacks, but Ethanol remains a solvent that will take up all three medicinal fractions. The problem with ethanol is, it's too non-selective.. Ethanol takes up chlorophyll and other undesirable fractions that make it's oils and tinctures "green" and bitter.

    The answer lies in changing the traits of ethanol and making it very selective for a whole plant extract, and very non-selective for the other crud. This is easily achieved by freezer-cooling ethanol and the product to extract, then doing a 3minute wash and freezing cold rinse. This is called the Quick, Cold Wash. When very cold and with high quality buds, a near clear extract/tincture can be easily made in minutes.
    Ethanol is a relatively safe solvent of which characteristics can be manipulated with temperature to be highly selective for medicinal compounds, while leaving undesirable waxes, chlorophyll and concrete oils behind. Ethanol is a powerful stripper of the cannabinoids and terpenes, and the most noted solvent for working with the flavinoids, quercetin and rutin and is noted in the extraction of flavines and flavones. While other solvents are noted also,
    Ethanol is the only one which is non-toxic, when used medicinally, and can be manipulated by very low temperature to not take up waxes, chlorophyll and concrete oils to achieve a pure Whole Plant Medicinal Extract..

    Leave a comment:


  • Permacultuure
    replied
    While I agree with some of what you say, whole plant extract is a term relating to what the biomass is, as opposed to what your referencing to.

    Co2 is actually able to fraction off these therapeutics, as are hydrocarbons. The problem lies in the purging, were two of your mentioned therapeutics are most commonly lost. This is where co2 becomes the obvious optimal choice, if only the cost wasn't such a large barrier to entry.
    Could you share more about these solvents that are able to extract and retain all of these essential therapeutics throughout the extraction and finishing processes?!

    Leave a comment:


  • TerpeneDream
    replied
    Originally posted by Radic View Post
    Greetnz

    solvents for whole plant extracts for medical use should take up all three therapeutic families with great efficiency and minimize the amount of chlorophyll’s, concrete oils and waxes which have minimal medicinal value and can cause negative side effects when concentrated..


    I've never heard this before. Would love to know more...

    Leave a comment:


  • Radic
    replied
    Greetnz
    Cannabis contains hundreds of pharmaceutical compounds (Turner et al. 1980).

    Herbalists contend that poly-pharmaceutical herbs provide two advantages over single-ingredient synthetic drugs:

    (1) therapeutic effects of the primary active ingredients in herbs may be synergized by other compounds.
    (2) side effects of the primary active ingredients maybe mitigated by other compounds.

    Whole Plant Medicinal Extract = The Entourage Effect.
    to a Herbalist,,,
    whole plant extract does not mean from the buds, leaf, stems. and roots...
    no.no.no...
    A "Whole Plant" medicinal extract is a three part synergy of cannabinoids, terpenoids and flavi(o)noids, one can perform a whole plant extract on the stems, or the leaves there will be some of all three therapeutic families found there, but, the yields are low and not as powerful as the cannabinoids, terpenoids and flavi(o)noids found in most abundance on the buds..
    solvents for whole plant extracts for medical use should take up all three therapeutic families with great efficiency and minimize the amount of chlorophyll’s, concrete oils and waxes which have minimal medicinal value and can cause negative side effects when concentrated.
    super critical extracts like co2, butane and even QCW will deliver whole plant extracts...

    Leave a comment:


  • Symbiotic AD
    replied
    Originally posted by Permacultuure View Post
    We do coconut oil capsules for many patients, including cancer patients. You are correct in the assumption that co2 or hydrocarbon extractions would have the same efficacy. People often get caught up in the term rso, thinking that the solvent is the most important aspect.
    IMO and IME the crucial aspect is using whole plant, flowers, as opposed to just trim. This is the KEY aspect.

    Our most successful story was with a brain tumor cancer patient using whole plant harlequin capsule, using coconut oil. We switched her up to ac/dc whole plant capsules that were 20:1 and she felt the Harley was more effective at a 2:1 ration cbd:thc. She determined the thc is very helpful with sleep and appetite.

    Good luck Symbiotic!
    That is very inspiring. I hope that not only do stories like this continue to happen, but that we can move through the stigma that currently exists and to be able to safely provide people with the medicine that they need.

    Thank you for the feedback on my concerns about extraction methods. I too agree that the quality of material used plays an important component on the efficacy of the medicine.

    Leave a comment:


  • Permacultuure
    replied
    We do coconut oil capsules for many patients, including cancer patients. You are correct in the assumption that co2 or hydrocarbon extractions would have the same efficacy. People often get caught up in the term rso, thinking that the solvent is the most important aspect.
    IMO and IME the crucial aspect is using whole plant, flowers, as opposed to just trim. This is the KEY aspect.

    Our most successful story was with a brain tumor cancer patient using whole plant harlequin capsule, using coconut oil. We switched her up to ac/dc whole plant capsules that were 20:1 and she felt the Harley was more effective at a 2:1 ration cbd:thc. She determined the thc is very helpful with sleep and appetite.

    Good luck Symbiotic!

    Leave a comment:


  • Symbiotic AD
    replied
    Originally posted by Gray Wolf View Post
    I suggest using a QWET technique with 190 proof/99.5% Ethanol, decarboxylate it so that it passes the blood/brain barrier, and turn it into Holy Shit oil/

    You can also make suppositories by buying the disposable molds on line and mixing the cannabis oil dose with coco butter while molten and pouring it into the molds. Use raw Absolutes for this purpose, not HS Oil with cinnamon, or it will burn.

    For patients who the psychoactive effects are a problem, try giving them 3X the oil dose in Citicolene, twenty minutes before the oil dose.

    http://skunkpharmresearch.com/qwet-extraction/
    http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/
    http://skunkpharmresearch.com/holy-a...and-holy-shit/
    If you have the capability of doing a CO2 extraction would you still suggest QWET extraction for making the HS oil? Or can you accomplish the same effects using other extraction methods?

    I had a patient ask me if I made RSO capsules, in particular with everclear then infused into coconut oil, as that is what helps her with her chronic asthma (This patient has never smoked). I assumed that a product made with a different extract method would have similar efficacy since it is the cannabinoids at higher concentrations that are helping the patient, and the coconut oil is an anti-inflammatory. In this situation I also assumed I could use oil extracted using a CO2 extraction to then create the capsules, am I wrong in assuming this? I want to provide the patients with exactly what helps them, but would prefer to use a more standardized methodology with the equipment I have available.

    As always, with me being new to this, I appreciate all of the information that every person here provides. My cannabis specific knowledge has literally skyrocketed with this resource.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gray Wolf
    replied
    Originally posted by LostTribe View Post
    Brother Wolfman,

    We have a friend trying to help a person in need what is your current recommendation for dealing with a cancerous brain tumor, 3rd remission....

    As always, Your best advise brother.....

    much praise

    LT
    I suggest using a QWET technique with 190 proof/99.5% Ethanol, decarboxylate it so that it passes the blood/brain barrier, and turn it into Holy Shit oil/

    You can also make suppositories by buying the disposable molds on line and mixing the cannabis oil dose with coco butter while molten and pouring it into the molds. Use raw Absolutes for this purpose, not HS Oil with cinnamon, or it will burn.

    For patients who the psychoactive effects are a problem, try giving them 3X the oil dose in Citicolene, twenty minutes before the oil dose.

    http://skunkpharmresearch.com/qwet-extraction/
    http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/
    http://skunkpharmresearch.com/holy-a...and-holy-shit/

    Leave a comment:

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