Quest to find out WHY some BHO turns into "butter" or "budder" over time?

[MoldyFrogToe]

Quest to find out WHY some BHO turns into "butter" or "budder" over time?

There are many types of oil but it seems like most of them eventually turn into butter if you give em some time.
Some oil turns hard and chips apart like sugar. Some is runny but definitely more solid than liquid. Either way they seem to turn into butter.
Is this a bad thing? Lets save that for another thread. Lets talk about why oil turns into butter. I'd like to find out just why this happens, scientifically speaking.

The possible variables in this process that first come into my mind are:

• H2O content of oil
• Humidity
• Oxygen/Air
• Exposure to air (surface area of oil in contact with air) - This amplifies the affects of all these variables and the degradation/evaporation/volatilization or other chemical reaction of anything in the oil..if happening.
• Purge heat & duration/method of collection (stirring)
• Genetics/state of MJ prior to BHO-ing it

I think we can assume that brand of butane doesn't really matter for our purposes, everyone uses the good shit right?

Has anyone tried to figure this out? I haven't had the resources but it'd be interesting to use the same genetics & purge methods, then expose to different environments for different durations, with controls and all.
You could expose oil in storage to a vacuum, different temps, different concentrations of air, have different surface areas, etc etc. Something has to be going on here at a chemical level and it'd be interesting to know
what's going on. Some people say butter has less flavor because of terpenoids being lost over time to the air, but maintains potency, others say it loses potency, etc.

When oil butters, is it just moisture evaporating?
Is it oxygen or some other molecules/elements disrupting the chemical bonds in the oil?
All I can tell is that the outer surface of oil butters first, and the center last. And when you stir it up on the purge plate it usually butters faster.

So, it seems to have to do with exposure to air, although some genetics butter up faster than others which would lead one to believe that CBD/THC/etc concentrations play a role as well.
That's my shot, what about you more experienced ones?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Don't know as I don't use BHO but my guess is either the terpenoids are hydrophilic or that the oil is being emulsified. I am interested in what happens. Like when dry sift resin is stored, or pressed, and the resin turns white and loses adhesiveness, smells and potency. I think it is because of the resin being hydrophilic. Heat it with fire and the resin will melt together again but the potency is negatively affected from the whitening.

-SamS

 

[cannaboy]

I have a acient recipe for a 100% pure cannabis oil made easy... you need good dry sift to help.. this stays black and sticky for 100's of years no problems it is all the impurities in the bho and non concentration of the reduction that causes this reaction to the open air..oil is slightly different in the manner of how the glandular trichlomes are infused together I have been asured it stays as it was made for 20 + years as there are some containers of it on a island not far,, my family member has done it this way and for many decades and he has been smoking for longer than anyone I know and he will only smoke oil and has done for 20 some odd years as it does'nt mess up your head like marijuana and hashish he says to me but he is so clever I'm not suprised last time he they had my old sk#1 his fellow oil mate passed out it was so strange to see it happen. this is the bes t way I know of making any oil or tinc,,,,

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I don't like oil personally.
Dry sift is what I like.

-SamS

 

[Gray Wolf]

I have a acient recipe for a 100% pure cannabis oil made easy... you need good dry sift to help.. this stays black and sticky for 100's of years no problems it is all the impurities in the bho and non concentration of the reduction that causes this reaction to the open air..oil is slightly different in the manner of how the glandular trichlomes are infused together I have been asured it stays as it was made for 20 + years as there are some containers of it on a island not far,, my family member has done it this way and for many decades and he has been smoking for longer than anyone I know and he will only smoke oil and has done for 20 some odd years as it does'nt mess up your head like marijuana and hashish he says to me but he is so clever I'm not suprised last time he they had my old sk#1 his fellow oil mate passed out it was so strange to see it happen. this is the bes t way I know of making any oil or tinc,,,,

Will you share your recipe?

GW

 

[cannaboy]

I can type it out and post it here in a hour or so.

 

[cannaboy]

The essential part of making good quality oil is to make a cold tincture this way the integrity of the cannabinoids are preserved.

You can make oil with a whole plant, trim, Bud, or with drysift but it need to be mold free and dry, drying can be done normally or in the freezer at (-4/-10 degrees) or better by placing into a liquid proof bag and dry ice/ethonol bath at (-70degrees)

You need to break the surface area of the marijuana to get best results (ie grind or chop)


Then you need pure alcohol this can be from anywhere I like RUM..

you can,,
Make pouchine A very old irish way,,,
Brandy or ethylalcohol, Vodka high proof liquor.
Get strong alcohol from the pharmacy, Isopropoalcohol, everclear,

It needs to be pure really the pure the better.. the higher the alcohol vol % the better the extraction will work. 80 proof means 40% ethanol, 200 proof etyanol is Ideal but can't be distilled to this level so you add benzene to remove the last vestages of water this makes "PURE" ETHANOL "POISIONOUS". (And without a lab I doubt you can make this at home) Most people use Everclear which is not available in all US states and stands at 190 proof or 95% Ethanol. 151 Rum is second choice but this is 75% and tastes nice, also consider 90-100 proof vodka this makes a sweet taste and everclear makes a green not a red tinc like the 151 Rum. but can be flavoured with a vanilla pod???

Wear gloves as this can be absorbed through your skin..

Freeze the Liquor and pour out the pure %%% alcohol you need 25grams to a pint of liquid
and I put it in a glass quart-mixing jar and shake the $%^&* outa it for 5-10 mins and into the deep freeze repeat for a week or 2, pour the mixture through a double cheese cloth or fine screne then through double coffee filter papers into a open top jar press the last out of the plant excess and discard or make butter,, place the tinc jar near ventilation and to keep it tempered so the alcohol will be evaporated and increaseing the cannabinoids in the oil this may take 10 days as well..

The safest way to consume this is to heat a blade place into the jar get some black gold heat gently so it runs down the blade this burns off the remaning nonvented alcohol and you can spread it anywhere this is the essential part becauce it rleaces the aroma and flavour...

151 rum gives a redish colour to oil made from dry sift and Vodka makes a amber colour but everclear can be flavoured and normally comes out green..

 

[Ryoko_The_Demon]

Not an emulsion, but actually a foam. It is the incorporation of air. Just like taking heavy cream and whipping it, but with oil instead.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I am not an expert on the differences between a foam and an emulsion.
Does a foam like whipping cream need just regular air or nitrous oxide like in better whipping cream dispensers? The article below says whipped cream is a stabilized emulsion foam, but what do I know?
-SamS
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=e10aaab4089cc8dee3e6904954103bbc

 

[Really Sam]

I wonder why the article would say such a thing? Maybe because whipping creams "contain emulsified droplets composed of fats that are partly crystalline and partly liquid (Rousseau, 2000), and the incorporated gas cells are stabilized to varying degrees by an adsorbed layer of partly coalesced fat globules." The article clearly states that "in physical chemistry terms, these kinds of aerated dairy products can be regarded as examples of particle-stabilized foams." They would still be foams even if they did not contain emulsified fats. Budder is still a SOLID foam. I'm surprised that you equate reading an article's abstract with purchasing and reading the entire thing. Is this how all your research is conducted?

 

[Ryoko_The_Demon]

A foam is a substance mixed with air bubbles, and can be a solid (styrofoam) or liquid (whipping cream). An emulsion is a mix of oil and non oil, such as an oil and vinegar based salad dressing. Add air to an emulsion and it can also be a foam at the same time. Whipping cream starts as an emulsion (35% fat/oil) and ends up as an emulsion foam when you get the air into it.

The kind of air isn't so important, it can be the very same air we breathe. They use nitrous oxide in the cans simply because it is cheap and easily compressed, plus it is harmless to eat and won't hurt kids if they intentionally huff the gas out of the nozzle. Pour some 35% whipping cream in a bowl and hit it with a cake mixer, you will get the same results.

I know two techniques for turning honey to 'budder', I'll post them up later. First I want to see if I still have any pictures of the process on my computer somewhere. It's easy though, and budder is much easier to handle and work with compared to normal honey.

 

[Capn]

My oil turns to "budder" without wipping eventually, just takes time. It is strange.

 

[TBL420uk]

Then you need pure alcohol this can be from anywhere I like RUM..
It needs to be pure really the pure the better.. the higher the alcohol vol % the better the extraction will work. 80 proof means 40% ethanol, 200 proof etyanol is Ideal but can't be distilled to this level so you add benzene to remove the last vestages of water this makes "PURE" ETHANOL "POISIONOUS". (And without a lab I doubt you can make this at home) Most people use Everclear which is not available in all US states and stands at 190 proof or 95% Ethanol. 151 Rum is second choice but this is 75% and tastes nice, also consider 90-100 proof vodka this makes a sweet taste and everclear makes a green not a red tinc like the 151 Rum. but can be flavoured with a vanilla pod???

I got some 92% 184 proof Absinthe i bought in Amsterdam. Not opened it yet & had it over a year! Might try make some oil with that.

 

[Telegraphist.]

Sam

Can i ask , how do you mean by resin hydrophyllic (water loving)?

 

[Bumble Buddy]

Hydrophyllic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrophyllic

Whiteness and loss of adhesiveness/aroma in dry sift probably at least partially due to evaporation of volatiles, maybe also some oxidation varnish coating build up on the trichomes? Oxidation- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidation

Budder due to hydrogenation? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation -"Hydrogenation results in the conversion of liquid vegetable oils to solid or semi-solid fats, such as those present in margarine. Changing the degree of saturation of the fat changes some important physical properties such as the melting point, which is why liquid oils become semi-solid. Semi-solid fats are preferred for baking because the way the fat mixes with flour produces a more desirable texture in the baked product. Since partially hydrogenated vegetable oils are cheaper than animal source fats, are available in a wide range of consistencies, and have other desirable characteristics (e.g., increased oxidative stability (longer shelf life)), they are the predominant fats used in most commercial baked goods. Fat blends formulated for this purpose are called shortenings."

 

[itsus]

an easy way to get bho a little more finger friendly is to incorporate some sift into the final product and mix. you can even cellophane wrap, lightly heat, lightly press and cool to make little slabs. i use my coffee pot with wet paper towels, works wonders. i'm not a big fan of oil by itself personally, i get it all over everthing.

 

[Shcrews]

haha this thread went a little off topic yes?

ppl post saying they arent a fan of oil... then why the f are you on this thread? go make your fucking dry sift you hippies. sorry.

as for the Budder:

The possible variables in this process that first come into my mind are:

• H2O content of oil
• Humidity
• Oxygen/Air
• Exposure to air (surface area of oil in contact with air) - This amplifies the affects of all these variables and the degradation/evaporation/volatilization or other chemical reaction of anything in the oil..if happening.
• Purge heat & duration/method of collection (stirring)
• Genetics/state of MJ prior to BHO-ing it

1. H2O content... this is, in my mind, a key factor in the transformation to budder. I have made large batches of BHO, and put some in the freezer while leaving some out at room temp. The BHO in the freezer did not transform nearly as much, i believe due to less water evaporation.

2. humidity - evaporation rate (see above) will depend on humidity... slightly. maybe. humidity not a big factor though.

3. oxygen/air - the transformation may be a kind of oxidation process.. Any REAL scientists want to share their thoughts on this?

4. exposure to air - obviously. a thin layer of BHO will crystalize/budderize faster than a glob.

5. purge heat/duration - not a factor, although some like to think it is. a proper purge is a proper purge. I have made budder, glass, and crap-goo, all with the same exact purge methods, just different strains/trim grades.

6. genetics/state of MJ before blowing - bingo! - Certain strains will naturally congeal into budder when purged properly.... Blue Dream, Sour Diesel, OG Kush, Royal Kush, Cocoa Kush, any resinous strain really. all you need is some nice frosty sugar leaves. Other strains, however, will take on a hardcandy/*glass* consistency... and will stay that way for years. (blueberry, i'm looking at you)



I think that we are looking at a combination of 5 or 6 different variables here, maybe more, that determine whether you will get budder and how soon. The easiest way to make budder is simply to use high-grade trim (no fan leaves or stems, just frosty sugar leaves), or buds, of the proper strain.

thoughts....

 

[Telegraphist.]

Resin hydrophylic?

Resin hydrophylic?

Is resin hydrophylic?

Sam can you clarify what do you mean my resin being hydrophylic?

 

[cancollector]

Hydrophylic
Having an affinity to water.


Affinity

1. An inherent likeness or relationship.

2. A special attraction for a specific element, organ or structure.

3. (Science: chemistry) The force that binds atoms in molecules, the tendency of substances to combine by chemical reaction.

4. The strength of noncovalent chemical binding between two substances as measured by the dissociation constant of the complex.

5. (Science: immunology) a thermodynamic expression of the strength of interaction between a single antigen binding Site and a single antigenic determinant (and thus of the stereochemical compatibility between them), most accurately applied to interactions among simple, uniform antigenic determinants such as haptens. Expressed as the association constant (k litres mole 1), which, owing to the heterogeneity of affinities in a population of antibody molecules of a given specificity, actually represents an average value (mean intrinsic association constant).

6. (Science: chemistry) The reciprocal of the dissociation constant.

 

[Telegraphist.]

ok put it this way

put some resin in water and observe is that hydrophyllic ?