Telegraphist.
Member
looks hydrophobic not hydrophyllic to me but i am no chemist
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Quest to find out WHY some BHO turns into "butter" or "budder" over time?
Telegraphist.
Member
please try this
please try this
please try this and post what you see happening.
Government said a country had WMD and look what happened when we believed them
please try this
please try this and post what you see happening.
Government said a country had WMD and look what happened when we believed them
Capn
Member
I thought hydrogenation took place only under decent amounts of heat.
The bho I have that budders never goes above room temp till I'm about to use it.
Do you think the butane could contain a catalyst? It says typical catalyst are metal, and most reactions don't occur till 480C without platinum group metals or some sort of nickle based catalyst.
I'm out of bho now but, when I had it, I kept it all in little plastic containers that I got from med shops. They contained grams of bubble hash. I wonder if the plastic had something to do with it?
I never noticed any difference in taste or effect from either buddered bho or the glassy/sticky kind. It all tasted exactly of the ganja it was made from and very sweet. Only difference was the ease of use.
"Hydrogenation is the chemical reaction that results from the addition of hydrogen (H2). The process is usually employed to reduce or saturate organic compounds. The process typically constitutes the addition of pairs of hydrogen atoms to a molecule. Catalysts are required for the reaction to be usable; non-catalytic hydrogenation takes place only at very high temperatures."
The bho I have that budders never goes above room temp till I'm about to use it.
Do you think the butane could contain a catalyst? It says typical catalyst are metal, and most reactions don't occur till 480C without platinum group metals or some sort of nickle based catalyst.
I'm out of bho now but, when I had it, I kept it all in little plastic containers that I got from med shops. They contained grams of bubble hash. I wonder if the plastic had something to do with it?
I never noticed any difference in taste or effect from either buddered bho or the glassy/sticky kind. It all tasted exactly of the ganja it was made from and very sweet. Only difference was the ease of use.
"Hydrogenation is the chemical reaction that results from the addition of hydrogen (H2). The process is usually employed to reduce or saturate organic compounds. The process typically constitutes the addition of pairs of hydrogen atoms to a molecule. Catalysts are required for the reaction to be usable; non-catalytic hydrogenation takes place only at very high temperatures."
cannaboy
Member
No don't that way to do it is how I posted, the oil will taste crap and depending on how much wormwood it contains you micht have a bad reaction to the smoke. My Ex is swiss and her GrandPa has some of the best collections of fine vintage from all over,, I had a glass for tradition on his b'day and was seein foot high snails and weird shit even with my eyes closed really scary when you can't controll the effects time is a cure but time on that stuff is scary..
Ryoko_The_Demon
New member
I already told you, budder is just oil and air.
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Method 1 (Active):
Whip your honey like you would with a cake mixer. You probably don't have enough to really use a cake mixer, so improvise. For example, bend a paperclip into a 'mixer' and hook that to an electric drill. Whip the honey until it fluffs up into budder.
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Method 2 (Passive):
Another way to get air into your honey is to use water. I discovered this by accident; it is my preferred method of doing this. I like it better because it really ensures the butane is gone.
After most of the butane has evaporated, pour boiling water into your collection dish. The honey does not like to mix with water, but small amounts can get trapped in it. Without draining the water, collect the honey into a glob and transfer that to a new, dry container.
Over the next week or two, just let it sit and dry out. Small amounts of water trapped in the oil will evaporate out the top. Tiny holes will form and the honey will become porous. The honey will smell extra powerful right now due to its increased surface area. This also gets your air in. Once the drying is complete, you can roll it up into a ball and store it as normal.
---
The end result is less sticky, and softer than normal honey. It is actually possible to pick it up right in your hands without making a mess everywhere. Pinch off a hit and it will still melt just like normal honey, with the exact same potency. It's just much easier to work with, no pins, razors, et cetera, are needed.
---
Method 1 (Active):
Whip your honey like you would with a cake mixer. You probably don't have enough to really use a cake mixer, so improvise. For example, bend a paperclip into a 'mixer' and hook that to an electric drill. Whip the honey until it fluffs up into budder.
---
Method 2 (Passive):
Another way to get air into your honey is to use water. I discovered this by accident; it is my preferred method of doing this. I like it better because it really ensures the butane is gone.
After most of the butane has evaporated, pour boiling water into your collection dish. The honey does not like to mix with water, but small amounts can get trapped in it. Without draining the water, collect the honey into a glob and transfer that to a new, dry container.
Over the next week or two, just let it sit and dry out. Small amounts of water trapped in the oil will evaporate out the top. Tiny holes will form and the honey will become porous. The honey will smell extra powerful right now due to its increased surface area. This also gets your air in. Once the drying is complete, you can roll it up into a ball and store it as normal.
---
The end result is less sticky, and softer than normal honey. It is actually possible to pick it up right in your hands without making a mess everywhere. Pinch off a hit and it will still melt just like normal honey, with the exact same potency. It's just much easier to work with, no pins, razors, et cetera, are needed.
Ryoko_The_Demon
New member
my belief is that budder is crystallized, like unpastuerized honey goes after awhile.
I am surprised you presume to assume that I don't have the full article, I posted a link to the abstract as the full article is not online unless you pay for it.
Sure, this is how I do all my research, it saves me so much time.
Next time "really sam" just ask me before you presume to assume, that way you don't have to waste your time presuming things that are not even real, you will have a lot more time to spend on your own research....
-SamS
Really Sam
Member
Next time before you presume to assume that it was an emulsion and linking people to something other than what you read yourself and knew contained information that proved your claim to be fallacious, just check yo'self and then Wikipedia. If you really had the full article then you would know that an emulsion foam is a combination of two distinct colloidal species. Then again you'd already have known that if your research skills were fit to impugn mine and wouldn't have claimed that budder is an emulsion to begin with. The reason Kut believes that budder is a crystalline substance is because he refuses to acknowledge that butane remains in his oil. I know, it's a foam made of terpene bubbles! Hilarious. At least you'll not plague us with such claims. Keep begging for people to hook you up with journals in the Strains and Hybridization forum since you're on top of all that research yourself.
I
itsus
funny shit guys...
G
grow nerd
Same batch, different states.
G
grow nerd
Scraped
Really Sam,
I did not claim that budder was an emulsion, I was making a guess and I clearly stated I did not know for sure. Reread my posts.
As for your claim that budder is made of terpene bubbles, do you know of any terpenoids that specifically help or hinder the budder process? Or do you think all terpenoids cause the same reactions? Have you ever tried to make budder out of pure THC, that would be an easy way to confirm your theory. Then add terpenoids and re-try.
And while we are at it how about why some resin will turn whitey, even dry sift. What do you think is happening that makes the resin less adhesive, and less potent? As well as white? Heated it will re-melt the resin, but not be as good as it was originally before turning white. You can't look this up as far as I know, you'll need to do the research yourself to find an answer.
-SamS
Ryoko_The_Demon
New member
I get a kick out of the people who fear solvents like the plague. People munch food with all natural soy protein, not realizing the stuff is made by hexane extraction. Many food products are made in giant vats of solvent.
Also, there is ammonia in the burgers at McDonald's and Burger King.
Also, there is ammonia in the burgers at McDonald's and Burger King.
Really Sam
Member
Sam you're missing out on what was me taking a good jab at Kut's mistaken believe that bubbles in oil are terpenoids and not residual butane due to improper technique. I didn't have a problem with your guess that budder was an emulsion, it was educated and close to the mark. I did find it somewhat misleading to the people who regard your advice as sage that you followed that post with one that linked to something people couldn't read for themselves. When those who can read the first paragraph of the actual article they easily see that an emulsion foam does not an emulsion make. To suggest that the article supported that emulsions were foams by offering up an abbreviated summary that made it look like that did no good at all and suggested you yourself hadn't read the article.
Hexane's not a solvent anyone should fear. They test hexane to make sure it's devoid of the solvents that shouldn't be in there in greater than carefully reviewed levels if it's to be used in a food. Pharmaceutical solvents should have to pass more stringent guidelines. Lighter fluid has neither guideline to pass.
Bob Clarke ain't told you bout white hash? The mystery you seek to solve is the aromatizing of THC into CBN. Check that Red Eye '98, man immortalized in 60's style art poster ought to have a few free copies. The tables. CBN, physical characteristics. So confident am I that I cite it from memory and as I do not have it here before me I have delivered it unto you nearly verbatim. Flakey, white substance. I think his source was the Merck.
Hexane's not a solvent anyone should fear. They test hexane to make sure it's devoid of the solvents that shouldn't be in there in greater than carefully reviewed levels if it's to be used in a food. Pharmaceutical solvents should have to pass more stringent guidelines. Lighter fluid has neither guideline to pass.
Bob Clarke ain't told you bout white hash? The mystery you seek to solve is the aromatizing of THC into CBN. Check that Red Eye '98, man immortalized in 60's style art poster ought to have a few free copies. The tables. CBN, physical characteristics. So confident am I that I cite it from memory and as I do not have it here before me I have delivered it unto you nearly verbatim. Flakey, white substance. I think his source was the Merck.
Now I get what you were saying to KUT.
I thought I was pretty clear that I was not an expert on foams or emulsions, just trying to offer a few ideas to share. What about which terpenoids help or hinder budder making? Any thoughts? Cannabis has 140+ terpenoids.... They can't all be the same in that they all help, some must not help the budder process?
ROB Clarke and I have discussed why hash turns white many many times but he never mentioned to me he felt it was from THC aromatizing into CBN. But regardless if you analyze the whitey hash with a GC it is not higher in CBN, it is lower in THC. Hash can turn white overnight, THC degrades into CBN slowly over a very long time, months or years.
It was not clear in your post above what you are referring to?
The table I think you refer to is on page 203 of Rob's book: Hashish?
CBN, White crystalline powder in solid leaflets.
Any more guesses?
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