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Pot size/stress and epigenetics

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
am trying to cross auto to sativa photo to make an autoflowering sativa dom hybrid.
I would like to keep the pots and plants as small as possible to fit several varieties and phenos together. Right now I have eight autos together with three photos, waiting for auto males to show. All plants are in one liter pots in a wicking system.
I am wondering how much the pot size can affect size, both in current grow and in the final f4.
I have read that shallow pots and root bounding can increase vertical growth in sativa and landraces. Don't want that. Also don't know if that is true. Also read that shallow pots induce flowering quicker in autos. That seems to be my experience too, and I don't mind that. Basically I would like the process to speed up and be space-economical by having small pots. Long process of breeding several generations. I would like to keep it manageable, so in addition to lst and topping I will try to keep the landrace/sativa size reduced through small pots while breeding. I might also do heavy manicuring/cutting, as all I need is a few pollen sacs and a branch for seeds. The final f4 seeds will grow outside and can use all the soil and space they need. But while chucking indoors I would prefer to root restrict, feed light and clip/top/cut, in short really abuse the bigger phenos.
Will any measures to keep plants small pass on unwanted traits to offspring through epigenetic processes? Or will a plant kept miniscule in a seed run produce seeds that can be big plants later in an ideal environment?
I realize that if all plants are somehow kept tiny, I don't be able to distinguish runts..
 

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
Epigenetic traits are not passed to offspring, since by their very nature they do not affect the structure of the DNA. Epigenetic traits are conditionally temporary, they do not become part of the plant's permanent makeup.

This sounds reassuring.
 

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
Concerning pot size ... How to select them rightly with imposed pot size that is limitating the full development ?

:tiphat:
That is the dilemma..
I am mostly thinking about the f2 generation where I need several plants just to find the autos. Hopefully f3/f4 selection will be easier as I can also use the flowering chamber with the true autos, selecting for phenos and not needing to look for auto traits.
 

aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Basically I would like the process to speed up and be space-economical by having small pots.
You can't hurry genetics. Devote time/space/genetics to reach your goal.
 

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
I guess you can, but maybe not ideal.
Straight to 12/12 hurries flowering in photos, no?
Tap root reaching bottom of shallow pot in autos makes them flower quicker than if in a deeper pot? Some Danish early photos initiate flowering if root restricted, so they finish in time outdoors. If planted directly in the ground they take too long for certain climates.
 

aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I guess you can, but maybe not ideal.
Straight to 12/12 hurries flowering in photos, no?
Tap root reaching bottom of shallow pot in autos makes them flower quicker than if in a deeper pot? Some Danish early photos initiate flowering if root restricted, so they finish in time outdoors. If planted directly in the ground they take too long for certain climates.

Haven't seen that in photos. Do 12/12 on certain genetics indoors in winter. Yield is less, LST with SOG/SCROG amps up yield. It's been my experience...sprout to finish 12/12, majority take 4 months to finish. Sativas....longer by 2.5-3 weeks and 13/11 lighting.

Try it yourself, keeping a very detailed log of events/dates on your questions regarding size/shape of container and other questions posed. Good luck!
 

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
I appreciate your feedback, arid. Four months for photos plus 3 additional weeks for a sativa, seems like 12/12 and 11/13 lighting didn't speed up total time.
I had the impression that 12/12 from seed is suggested when you want to limit size and also cut down veg time. I was referring to this when saying I want to speed up the process.
Flowering takes the same time, but is initiated earlier when flowering schedule is applied from seed. In your experience this is not the case?
There are still many myths circulating, but are lighting schedules and pot size/tap roots among those myths?
Latest suggestion was from the very breeder of my cambodian landrace. Khalifa genetics suggest small pots and 11/13 from seed both to limit size and to initiate flowering earlier.
 

aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I can't speak for tropical zone genetics, so go with whom recommended that regimen.

I like to grow in taller vs. wider containers that hold 5-7 gallons of medium. It's more for space limitations both indoors or OD. Haven't done a comparison. From seed, roots tend to grow downward (great for autos). Clones have a more lateral root base.

Keep careful notes on your project....deduce later! Good luck!
 

pjlive

Active member
I also grow some of the more difficult domestics indoors along with a variety of newer photo-period crosses and now auto-flowering plants. I just wanted to add that pot size also depends on the media you're using. I'm in a soil-less hydro set-up so I can grow quite large plants in a 2 gallon pot - about 4 feet, sometimes taller but it also depends on the girth of the pheno. If I'm on an automatic drip system, I can grow a pretty big plant in a 1 gallon pot, 3 to 3.5 feet no problem.

In soil, I can forget about the above. The bigger the pot in soil the better is my experience.
 

amanda88

Well-known member
currently I've crossed thc bomb auto with desfran female photo, now on F2, waiting for the autos to show,
got 20 plus in 1/2 pint cups moving to 4 litre tomato bags once sexed,
later potting up again to the final 10 liter bags, a normal grow for me goes from the half pint cups to the 10 liter bags, offers a standard auto of about 18inches to 2ft, less bud so I cram more under the lights
however I've run across this guy Gardener Scott on YT who advises against such a venture



I suspect he could be right, multiple potups are a stunt not worth growing lol
 
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