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Contra D - Chem D x C4DD - Info and grow-along.

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    #91
    It's probably us mate, so stoned we're trippin' ! πŸ˜‰
    My contributions to this website in no way imply support for any political or cultural views promoted here.
    -----
    To the large and singular furniture of this noble island i have added from foreign places all the variety of herbs and flowers that i might any way obtain. I've laboured with the soil to make it fit for plants, and with the plants that they might delight in the soil - so they might live and prosper under our climate as in their native and proper country.
    Gerard's Herbal (1636)

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      #92
      Hi all. i sowed 12 seeds., of the three that didnt come up, 1 or 2 did germ but were too runty to break soil convincingly.... so i think we have 7/12 'Big D' phenos and 5/12 Li'l D phenos - (2 showing and counting the 3 no-shows as Li'l D as well)
      The very big one may have popped first or may be a male .. or may be a 'Bigger D' ..who knows. I'll pot them up and grow them on a bit more
      Click image for larger version

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ID:	17834813 (i'm saying the two on the right are Li'ls )
      VG
      My contributions to this website in no way imply support for any political or cultural views promoted here.
      -----
      To the large and singular furniture of this noble island i have added from foreign places all the variety of herbs and flowers that i might any way obtain. I've laboured with the soil to make it fit for plants, and with the plants that they might delight in the soil - so they might live and prosper under our climate as in their native and proper country.
      Gerard's Herbal (1636)

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        #93
        So, scores on the doors... So far 18 seeds popped altogether, with 10 Big and 8 L'il..... Still looking like about 50/50 big to little.

        Interesting that there is a 'gap' in the middle of the scale, but there are defo 'degrees' of Li'l.. so i guess it makes sense that there are degrees of Big too?

        VG
        My contributions to this website in no way imply support for any political or cultural views promoted here.
        -----
        To the large and singular furniture of this noble island i have added from foreign places all the variety of herbs and flowers that i might any way obtain. I've laboured with the soil to make it fit for plants, and with the plants that they might delight in the soil - so they might live and prosper under our climate as in their native and proper country.
        Gerard's Herbal (1636)

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          #94
          What light are they under V.G.?
          When as men, our only guide to right and wrong is the ability or inability to act, we cannot truly call ourselves men.

          Copyrights on all photographic work are reserved

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            #95
            Originally posted by GMT View Post
            What light are they under V.G.?
            hi GMT, they are under an LED, a blurple HGL one (HGL sent me quite a few free lights over the years in return for grow shows) The cab is a bit small though with not enough height to keep plants away from the light.. so plants tend to start fading out as soon as the roots hit the side of the pot. Good for seedlings though because they don't stretch much.
            Are you thinking my assumptions about the segregation are reasonable? am i missing anything?
            I'll pot all the bigs up and grow them on to make sure i'm correct about them being 'bigs'. I'm hoping for a nice male or two..

            VG
            My contributions to this website in no way imply support for any political or cultural views promoted here.
            -----
            To the large and singular furniture of this noble island i have added from foreign places all the variety of herbs and flowers that i might any way obtain. I've laboured with the soil to make it fit for plants, and with the plants that they might delight in the soil - so they might live and prosper under our climate as in their native and proper country.
            Gerard's Herbal (1636)

            Comment


              #96
              To be honest I'm surprised by the segregation. I would have expected 25,25,50. The only way you have 50:50 is if one of the parents had a particular problem or advantage on one side of its DNA. Given the lineage I would have thought this unlikely. Therefore I'm going to have to guess that a mutation occurred somewhere below the pollen /bud line on one of the parents. Which, and whether it gave the advantage to those bid D plants or a disadvantage to the little D plants I don't know.

              I do have a slight issue with this quote though



              Originally posted by VerdantGreen View Post
              Using a female is obviously not a choice if i'm outcrossing to a clone only like bubba.. but hopefully it will pass some 'big and fastness' to the bubba and maybe some others.


              VG
              I'd reverse the bubba and hit a big D female. I know that creates an all female offspring, but you can then use a big D male to cross to a desirable plant and hopefully keep that great mtdna intact. If you hit a bubba with big D pollen, you lose it. If you want to fold the genes in, you can always hit the bubba with the big D male pollen, and use a male from that cross, to make f1.5's lol whereby you cross ( rev bubba and big D) girl, to (big D and bubba) male offspring. That way you get your 50:50 cross but preserve the big D mtdna and male female offspring.

              ​​​​​​​Anyway, I just thought the seedlings were looking nice and wondered what they were under.
              When as men, our only guide to right and wrong is the ability or inability to act, we cannot truly call ourselves men.

              Copyrights on all photographic work are reserved

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                #97
                I used 3 or 4 c4dd males to make the pollen batch that i used for the contra, the f2s and the crosses

                Originally posted by GMT View Post
                To be honest I'm surprised by the segregation. I would have expected 25,25,50. ...
                i guess there could be a 50 /50 split in the li'l phenos.. some are viable and some germinate but grow in a stunted circle. so from the total 8 li'ls there are 4 viables and 4 non-viables (at least 3 of them germed and grew a bit) could be a stretch but certainly possible so that could give is 25,50,25? - but i guess that you'd expect the range to be the 50% in the middle range rather than bigs.. or could it work like that?



                Originally posted by GMT View Post
                I'd reverse the bubba and hit a big D female. I know that creates an all female offspring, but you can then use a big D male to cross to a desirable plant and hopefully keep that great mtdna intact. If you hit a bubba with big D pollen, you lose it. If you want to fold the genes in, you can always hit the bubba with the big D male pollen, and use a male from that cross, to make f1.5's lol whereby you cross ( rev bubba and big D) girl, to (big D and bubba) male offspring. That way you get your 50:50 cross but preserve the big D mtdna and male female offspring.

                ​​​​​​​Anyway, I just thought the seedlings were looking nice and wondered what they were under.
                ive been thinking along similar lines... it may have been writing what you quoted that got me thinking lol.... i plan to do the reversed bubba to the big D, and then hit a good vigorous BigDbubba with reversed bubba pollen again to get a bx to the bubba but with some better mtdna, worth a try.. i like your idea too, so many possibilities if this breeds well

                great to be able to pick your brains about it, thanks,

                VG

                My contributions to this website in no way imply support for any political or cultural views promoted here.
                -----
                To the large and singular furniture of this noble island i have added from foreign places all the variety of herbs and flowers that i might any way obtain. I've laboured with the soil to make it fit for plants, and with the plants that they might delight in the soil - so they might live and prosper under our climate as in their native and proper country.
                Gerard's Herbal (1636)

                Comment


                  #98
                  Yeah I would have expected the 50% to be mid D. Which given the numbers involved are low, could be the case. What you call little D may in fact be mid D's, with what you call non viables being the real lil D's. You may have just picked more big D seeds to pop than would be the statistical average across large numbers. Not saying its so, just a possibility.
                  When as men, our only guide to right and wrong is the ability or inability to act, we cannot truly call ourselves men.

                  Copyrights on all photographic work are reserved

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                    #99
                    Oh, how many females?
                    When as men, our only guide to right and wrong is the ability or inability to act, we cannot truly call ourselves men.

                    Copyrights on all photographic work are reserved

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                      Originally posted by GMT View Post
                      Oh, how many females?
                      Hi mate, just the one female as this was the C4DD pollen bx'd to the Chem D cut again.

                      You may be right about the mid D's , i think its good that there seems to be a good proportion of the good plants anyway.... i was wondering if there was any way there could be an allele that was undesirable at either end, but desirable in the middle 50%??
                      anyway i can't really run any bigger numbers, but may try and make a batch of F2s with the Bigs.

                      VG
                      My contributions to this website in no way imply support for any political or cultural views promoted here.
                      -----
                      To the large and singular furniture of this noble island i have added from foreign places all the variety of herbs and flowers that i might any way obtain. I've laboured with the soil to make it fit for plants, and with the plants that they might delight in the soil - so they might live and prosper under our climate as in their native and proper country.
                      Gerard's Herbal (1636)

                      Comment


                        No the middle 50% is a mix of both, only the 25%'s are double bubble for each version.
                        It could of course be a 50% split, if the mutation occurred on the cut of chem D that mothered them, if only one cut mothered all seeds. That mutation may not exist in another cut, if that was taken from either: a lower part of that plant than the mutation occurred at, or the mother that cut was taken from.
                        When as men, our only guide to right and wrong is the ability or inability to act, we cannot truly call ourselves men.

                        Copyrights on all photographic work are reserved

                        Comment


                          of course 12/50/25, Yes,
                          one way or another the 'difference' must have come from the Chem D... although i wonder (possibly ignorantly) if it is a pre-existing genetic component in the D rather than a mutation. In the C4DD F2 the plants are nearly all generally healthy.. but i have seen in one F2 that i kept, a phenomena that is more slight but similar to the li'l D ... a kind of dwarfing of the plant, leaves and all.. with very short internodes and way too much branching, making individual branches weak. This plant i revegged because it had an amazing filthy chemmy terp profile... and the 'littling' phenomena became much more pronounced on the revegged plant. I am still trying to veg it and get it growing well with some limited success.
                          Not sure if all of that means anything significant or not... i wondered if perhaps one of the 4 girls i used to make the F2 seeds was genetically close enough to the D cut to produce a similar, but rarer and less pronounced, effect.

                          VG
                          My contributions to this website in no way imply support for any political or cultural views promoted here.
                          -----
                          To the large and singular furniture of this noble island i have added from foreign places all the variety of herbs and flowers that i might any way obtain. I've laboured with the soil to make it fit for plants, and with the plants that they might delight in the soil - so they might live and prosper under our climate as in their native and proper country.
                          Gerard's Herbal (1636)

                          Comment


                            Well, we're of course talking about it in very simple examples of possibility. It could well be multiple genes at play, in which case any number of scenarios become possible. If it's pre-existing, then it is more than likely multiple combinations at work. The only way to predict its future is to cause it's extinction.
                            When as men, our only guide to right and wrong is the ability or inability to act, we cannot truly call ourselves men.

                            Copyrights on all photographic work are reserved

                            Comment


                              Aye, i'm hoping that F2s of all the decent Bigs will do the trick with that... and i intend to find out !

                              Thanks again
                              VG
                              My contributions to this website in no way imply support for any political or cultural views promoted here.
                              -----
                              To the large and singular furniture of this noble island i have added from foreign places all the variety of herbs and flowers that i might any way obtain. I've laboured with the soil to make it fit for plants, and with the plants that they might delight in the soil - so they might live and prosper under our climate as in their native and proper country.
                              Gerard's Herbal (1636)

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by VerdantGreen View Post
                                of course 12/50/25, Yes,
                                one way or another the 'difference' must have come from the Chem D... although i wonder (possibly ignorantly) if it is a pre-existing genetic component in the D rather than a mutation. In the C4DD F2 the plants are nearly all generally healthy.. but i have seen in one F2 that i kept, a phenomena that is more slight but similar to the li'l D ... a kind of dwarfing of the plant, leaves and all.. with very short internodes and way too much branching, making individual branches weak. This plant i revegged because it had an amazing filthy chemmy terp profile... and the 'littling' phenomena became much more pronounced on the revegged plant. I am still trying to veg it and get it growing well with some limited success.
                                Not sure if all of that means anything significant or not... i wondered if perhaps one of the 4 girls i used to make the F2 seeds was genetically close enough to the D cut to produce a similar, but rarer and less pronounced, effect.

                                VG
                                Id say it is pre existing as i have seen it before with d hybs, it is a Mutation Freak that somehow got in to the genepool or it is was an x at some Point as it seem to bring the Funk out in the best phenos..

                                I have the Theorie that it might Cross different like with a heterosis bastard Effect due to its Mutation in the Genes

                                .....

                                Growalong:

                                1 of 3 c4dddf2 i popped showing the tmv Type leaf but its not lacking vigour so iam Happy to grow a real chem chem from seed... first smell from stem rub i got is garlic scallion mushroom, like wet warm Indian kitchen steam..wish me luck..

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