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New DJ Short Article-General Irregularities/Anomalies of Cannabis Relating to Transge

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  • Elevator Man
    replied
    Kashgar - one other point of note is that most of the albino blotches and leaf-twisting (in my Flos anyway) generally occur in early to mid veg - but come the onset of flowering, they've always reverted to perfect, dark green leaves. At cloning/re-veg time, the blotches will reappear - yellow on my green Flo leaves, and grew/white on the purple Flos. It's definitely connected with some kind of 'growth surge' sequence...

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  • Kashgar
    replied
    Burt,
    please feel free to post your results with your Blueberry cuts...
    I m very interested.

    Elevator Man,
    I suspect that the variegations and deformations are strongly dependant of each other.

    Peace.

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  • Elevator Man
    replied
    Interesting theory - I noticed a similar phenomenon with the albino mutations I get on one of my Flo phenos - the blotches seem to stay on one branch, and a cut from that will keep the trait, whilst a 'green' cut won't. That was my experience, but with very small samples, admittedly - maybe on larger numbers it would balance out more evenly.

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  • Burt
    replied
    thanks kashgar-that helps a lot-i've got 2 blueberry females from seed and was gonna start a thread asking about which part of the plant to clone from-it makes sense that you'd want the least deformed stems to cut from-half og the plant is deformed and the other half is as normal as a blueberry can be

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  • Kashgar
    replied
    Hi all,
    one thing I remarked while growing Blueberry and Blue Sat#1 is that it is better to pay attention to take cuttings from the least deformated parts of the mother plant.
    That way you avoid the deformations to occur to a level where it stunts the plants and make it difficult to grow properly during the vegetative state.
    The two pics below somewhat illustrate this.
    Those are cuttings from the same BS#1 mother but taken from different parts of the same plant. The cutting pictured in the first pic, was taken from a deformated part, while the cutting in the second pic was taken from the least deformated part of the same plant.
    After 3 weeks, the cuttting from a non-deformated part is 3X taller than the other one and it shows less overall deformations.
    I use to clone that way with those kinds of plants, it helps somewhat to clean away the deformations...however you will never totaly get rid of them.
    Hope that helps.
    Peace.




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  • Mr. Alkaline
    replied
    Dj prefered the ox head. The genes are sooo mixed at this point. There is a deformed hog landrace on pg 47 of the Highland oaxaca thread.
    Last edited by Mr. Alkaline; 05-17-2007, 20:50.

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  • Elevator Man
    replied
    Wonder what kind of an Afghani was used in the Flo and others?
    I'm beginning to think that it was something like the second pheno in Beancounter's thread on the HTC indica here - DJ said it a was a very old-school Oregon/Cali-based Afghani from around '78:

    http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=58081



    Note the 'rosette' flower clusters, which closely approximate Flo, and obviously the color and calyx distribution. I've had one or two very indica phenos pop out of my Flo experiments, but in the females they've all seemed either stunted and a bit weird, or just very small and slow-growing. One male was small and green, but very fast-growing, and is one of the parents of all my new crosses. The highs so far still seem to be the usual crisp 'up' effect though, on indica-dom phenos.

    I think DJ managed to breed in something like this or a similar Kush strain purely for physical structure alone, and kept any indica buzz out of the mix. One of my Black Domina X Maple Leaf Indica phenos and my mystery Jamaican also have similar looks - a 'vase' or 'urn' branch shape, most of the bud at the top, with distinct 'ball' shaped clusters further down. The sativa in Flo adds the bullet/spear shape to the buds and the foxtailing.

    Red - any chance of asking DJ for any historical info on the indicas used?

    These pics show what I mean:



    My green pheno is the best foxtailer, and is also probably the least influenced by the indica in the strain, and I'm guessing more by the H.O.G.:

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  • dubi
    replied
    Im curious to know where did the deformities come from.

    DJ shorts comments that Blue lines can produce different mutant expressions, mainly leaf deformity, but he didnt comment clearly about the origin of the deformities.

    What landrace strain (mexican, chocolate thai, highland thai or afghani) used to develop the blue family showed initially deformities in the population?

    I dont imagine afghan or thai farmers aplying colchicine to their seeds to try to transform their genepool. But it's possible.
    Last edited by dubi; 05-17-2007, 11:08.

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  • The Slickster
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Alkaline
    My guess dj said BH is in Bb and Flo. they are little or no Ht. they are quick oaxacan least potent and f6. BV is in Bb sativa. they flwr in twelve wks. more potent, glands per mm and trippy. big calyxes and indica structure. F13 is flo f5 x Bb sativa male.
    Thanks for that info Mr Alkaline, so are you saying that Flo is an F6, and that the Oaxacan within the Flo is the one with the Early Flower potentials in it that may be deselected unlike the Chocolate Thai which would only need to be deselected of any hermaphroditism if it presents itself?

    So Oaxacan's look out for the early flowering and deselect, Choco's make sure herm free for reproduction. Afghan just turns up the luck of the draw on any plant, but relatively all within close ratios and just with different phenos and mixes of Purple Thai. Does the Afghani come into play there with the color differences? And is one of the 2 sativas in the Purple Thai better than the other?

    Wonder what kind of an Afghani was used in the Flo and others?
    Last edited by The Slickster; 05-18-2007, 06:51.

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  • Mr. Alkaline
    replied
    My guess dj said BH is in Bb and Flo. they are little or no Ht. they are quick oaxacan least potent and f6. BV is in Bb sativa. they flwr in twelve wks. more potent, glands per mm and trippy. big calyxes and indica structure. F13 is flo f5 x Bb sativa male.
    Last edited by Mr. Alkaline; 05-13-2007, 21:49.

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  • The Slickster
    replied
    The Flo was made with the Purple Thai "kind" x Afghani, and at some point worked into an F6, correct me if I am wrong. And so then the Flo is 60% Sativa (Purple Thai) x 40% Indica (Afghani). Then the Blueberry is the Purple Thai x Highland Thai x Afghani, being an 80% Indica, it may be 80% Afghani, then 20% Sativa (Highland Thai (unkind?)) and (Purple Thai). Even though the Blueberry contains the Highland Thai said by DJ to be a somewhat racy high, since it is only in or around the 10% range, does not cause the Blueberry to be an unkind trip, likely due to the heavy Afghan influence. At 80% Indica, cwonder if Blueberry is an F6, or F5, etc.?

    Then there is the Blue Heaven that also incorporates the Highland Thai and has more Sativa to it than Flo.

    "Blue Heaven (DJ Short) Highland Thai (Juicyfruit Thai), Purple Thai (Chocolate Thai X Highland Oaxaca Gold), and Afghani Indica".

    Most to all of DJ's strains offered now offer non-racy type buzzes for the most part. It is more for referential purposes to see some patterns or directions in the various hybrids to learn about.

    And it was Flodica which was the most Indica phenotype used from the Flo line and not F-13, even though related? Flodica description:

    "A mostly indica phenotype from the Flo-line. A rare, near-total recessive indica found by chance in the "TF"("TF"=True Floral, or its ultimate expression "Temple Flo"). Unlike the usual sativa traits associated with the Flo line, the Flodica is a near pure indica phenotype of short, stout, yet productive, structure with very large dense gland production with more of an earthen palate to the buds that produce a very strong, narcotic type experience."

    The Flo and Blue Heaven seem to be made from the same genetics with the Blue Heaven adding on the Highland Thai which DJ writes as racy, but the Blue heaven is/was a strain same to be relaxed and anti-anxiety, so perhaps even though the Highland Thai (which may has something to do with the Blue line) was used, it may have been a minimal part of the Blue Heaven experience. But now that the Blue Heaven is gone, would the Flo not be the next closest contender for a great anti-anxiety strain without any of the "edgy" Highland Thai? Kinda like Blue Heaven is stemming from the same genetics (of course well worked in its own direction) as Flo, only more Sativa?

    As there will be some more Sativa leafed and others more green or purple. Do any specific traits such as those point in any particular direction? Obviously the more Sativa the more (Purple Thai x Highland Oaxacan) with either contending specific ratios. But does a dark Flo mean more Afghani or more Indica?
    Last edited by The Slickster; 05-21-2007, 05:36.

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  • Kashgar
    replied
    Originally posted by DJ Short
    I used to think that the deformities witnessed in certain lines of cannabis were strictly the result of a mutagenic regimen such as colchicine. Variegation in particular is a typical symptom of such a process. If such a process were used on the varieties of cannabis I have worked with, I assume that it was in the Thai lines as that is where most of these traits seem to originate. There is, however, another aspect to consider regarding these anomalies called transgressive segregation.
    I agree with DJ Short that those mutations might be the result of a mutagenic regimen like colchicin.However I do not buy the idea that they could be related to transgressive segregation.

    In fact, those anomalies are well known by the scientific community as the result of fasciation :
    “Fasciation is a condition of plant growth in which the apical meristem, normally concentrated around a single point producing approximatively cylindrical tissue, becomes elongated perpendicularly to the direction of growth producing flattened, ribbon-like, crested or elaborately contorted tissue.The phenomenon may occur in the stem, leaf, root, fruit or flower head.
    Fasciation can be caused by a mutation in the meristematic cells, bacteria infection, mite or insect attack, or chemical or mechanical damage.Some plants may inherit the trait.“

    J.M.McPartland from the InternationalHempAssociation seems to believe that “the cause of fasciation might be pathogenic rather than genetic“.

    Recent studies (not published to that day) have shown that virus infected strains could eventually lead to the apparition of special plants with an overall better quality but a smaller yield.
    I’m tempted to see in the special "mutants" from DJ’s lines, a result of this condition : those plants are often the most resinous and the tastiest but with less vigour and a smaller yield than their non-deformated counterparts.

    Red, could you ask DJ if he ever considered fasciation to explain those deformations ?

    All the best.
    Peace.






    Last edited by Kashgar; 11-25-2006, 11:49.

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  • Mr. Alkaline
    replied
    Most of the Sweet Spots were possibly infiltrated by indica world-wide in the late 70's according to DJ!
    An important aspect to note here is that, according to the best of my knowledge, most high quality sativa of the era was in some way shape or form of Thai origin (or greater Himalayan, but for simplicity’s sake referred to as "Thai"). This includes the Oaxaca, Colombian, Panamanian, Hawaiian among others of the late 1970's. Most of it supposedly came from Thai seed stock.
    My definition of acclimation is: grown in a specific region or circumstance for enough generations (in-line bred) to impart characteristics unique to the region or circumstance–preferably in an herbal "sweet-spot" such as Highland Oaxaca. This is a very important consideration regarding future resurrection of land race varieties.
    [Side Note: What may have been very detrimental to the overall cannabis gene-pool was the "willy-nilly" introduction of indica and indica-based genes to the equatorial regions of the world–circa 1980's.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Dj was lucky enough to be able to grow large quantities to pick parents from and grow some original flavors.

    I guess that's old school, where the product makes the rep, not the hype.



    Thanks DJ!
    Last edited by Kmarpa; 11-18-2006, 21:58.

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  • Mr. Alkaline
    replied
    Relinquishing the indica via recessive promotion

    The Oaxacan Sativa genes seem to be very susceptible to indica invasion.

    The proposal I have is based on the premise that if we turn the tables on the remaining hybrid stock by promoting the indica to become recessive…..there may be an exponentially greater chance of discovering the right/purest genes to later coax and tweak at the equator.
    Here We Go
    It seems logical to deduce or assume that the majority of indica in the Blue Satellites is not the same as was used to create the F-13.
    Also, the selection of the Blueberry Sativa (Flo) gifted to Steve was probably a close, but variant pheno from the F-13 (Flo) stock. I predict that if you select a red sativa male from 100 satellite F2’s and cross it with a female F-13 selected from 100 of the original F-13 beans……that you could wind up with what would be “Satellite-13”. Afterwards Grow out another 100 original F-13 to find another female closely resembling the finished product of the Oaxaca……cross the female to a male “Satellite-13 (S-13)” chosen from 100 f2’s…and you would arrive at………F-13 x S-13 = FS-13 And from two hundred of the FS-13’s grown out……select the closest replica to the original Oaxacan Sativa.
    The FS-13 would be the recombination of the landrace sativa genetics while simultaneously causing the indica to become the recessive gene holder.
    The FS-13 would later be taken to the equator and naturally coaxed to become more sativa. I invite all construction criticism. –Mr. Alkaline

    * I wonder whether the Triple Asian Fantasy is a cross of the Oaxaca female and a thai sativa male.
    Last edited by Mr. Alkaline; 11-18-2006, 18:17.

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