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    Yep- that's my bad. I ignored/forgot the part in the discussion of prevalence of females. I went right to traits when I saw x-to-autosome. And the paper I reference speaks more to traits rather than populations. I'm off base there.

    I think what I mean about maternal influence (and I acknowledge I'm having a completely different discussion) is simply that influence and linkage are demonstrably different. I assume sex linkage to mean that sex-linked traits are unavoidable in the presence of the designated sex chromosome. But influence might indicate upstream or downstream regulators but do not connote inevitability. It's merely suggestive.

    Similarly, with penetrance (and I should correct myself because this is actually an autosomal and sex linked observation) that even in the presence of genes connoting expression that expression is not guaranteed. My example for this is a gene in humans which is responsible for expressing breast cancer. But just because you have the gene in an active state and all your alleles line up against you and every breast cancer diagnosis contains this gene in it's diagnosis, only a ~third of the time does it guarantee an expression of tumors. I think it's called incomplete penetrance, actually.

    Anyway, I'm getting away from your real point. Glad to chat though, even if as you said, I'm wrong or needing a humbling, haha.
    Tell the people you love that you love them.

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      To be honest I just don't know enough to answer in a knowledgeable way. It wouldn't make sense for genes that aren't linked to sex, to be contained in either of the sex chromosomes. They would work their way out over time, only brand new mutations would still be there. Though these are apparently most common in the Y chromosome. But (evolutionarily speaking) these are passed into the autosome pretty quickly. It is also rare for these mutations to actually form a new active gene that generates any benefit to survival. Which in our case ,normally, means tasting or affecting us in a preferable way.
      That said, as we know males tend to stretch more than females at the start of flowering, so there may be genes that react more to one sexual expression than another. There are certainly genes turned on and off in that way. We only have to look to the flowers formed to see that. Flowering length, veg length are also affected in that way.
      They are my musings on the subject, but someone will post a paper showing why I got it wrong at some point I'm sure.

      Comment


        We interupt educational programming to bring you a result from recombining two separate Inbred lines derived from a same recurring p1 that Tom described to us many years ago.





        And now back to our program!
        When The Green Drops The Bullshit Stops

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        KNOWN BUBBLE HEAD

        Comment


          Originally posted by GMT View Post
          To be honest I just don't know enough to answer in a knowledgeable way. It wouldn't make sense for genes that aren't linked to sex, to be contained in either of the sex chromosomes. They would work their way out over time, only brand new mutations would still be there. Though these are apparently most common in the Y chromosome. But (evolutionarily speaking) these are passed into the autosome pretty quickly. It is also rare for these mutations to actually form a new active gene that generates any benefit to survival. Which in our case ,normally, means tasting or affecting us in a preferable way.
          That said, as we know males tend to stretch more than females at the start of flowering, so there may be genes that react more to one sexual expression than another. There are certainly genes turned on and off in that way. We only have to look to the flowers formed to see that. Flowering length, veg length are also affected in that way.
          They are my musings on the subject, but someone will post a paper showing why I got it wrong at some point I'm sure.
          Originally posted by Tom Hill View Post
          Put up or shut up kid. Explain another way such observations can be had (ie 70%+ female populations). But you may need to grow some plants first
          Originally posted by GMT View Post
          Mainly, how to explain a reliably observable 70% female and 30% male population, in the presence of and absence of, intersexed flowers.
          I think it could be possible to have males and or females that are biased toward male or female offspring.

          When growing up there was a family that lived down the street. They had 6 daughters. One of them was in the same class(grade) as me.

          I read an article not to long ago some where on some news site where they where talking about how a human females egg chooses the sperm.

          It could be some female plants have a bias towards producing male offspring. I could see it being more likely being the male that has the bias in producing a larger population of female offspring. I think it could be very likely that a male plant could produce more female pollen then male pollen. It could be environmental in nature or it's in the plants genes, or it could be a hormone of some type, to much or not enough. After all you have people who are making female seeds by reversing a female plant by spraying a chemical spray on the plant. So I don't think it would be far fetched think that something chemical or hormone would make a male plant produce more female pollen.
          Double Dutch F2's

          Hooked On Ponics

          The ReishiArium

          1K RDWC grow

          My Double Dutch Grow

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            Hey Tom, got these in from the ptk x gorilla bubble.
            Everyone loves her, she makes you feel electric and good. I think it's the thcv! Had to come from the ptk. GB doesn't have any thcv.
            And the b pinene!





            When The Green Drops The Bullshit Stops

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            KNOWN BUBBLE HEAD

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              Nice, Tony *Thumbs up
              Tell the people you love that you love them.

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                Shit, big thanks to Tom. Not that it means much during a pandemic, I know the drill, send checks and toilet paper ha!
                But FWIW I've gotten more deep emotional responses to this line than any other. People really love it. It makes you feel good and ok and vibe not just stoned. I put on the description it makes you want to sing and it does lol. Cool flower.
                When The Green Drops The Bullshit Stops

                sigpic
                KNOWN BUBBLE HEAD

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                  Originally posted by Tonygreen View Post
                  Hey Tom, got these in from the ptk x gorilla bubble.
                  Everyone loves her, she makes you feel electric and good. I think it's the thcv! Had to come from the ptk. GB doesn't have any thcv.
                  And the b pinene!

                  View Image

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                  Funny that Myrcene is abcense.
                  sigpic
                  In volcanic soil we trust

                  Whether your checkin out bud porn or regular porn from 1975, you wont catch anyone trimming thier bush
                  BTW that pluton sucked. We grew it outside-looked awesome, smelled great, everything but when dried, it had 0% high.
                  I see it as a kind of wonder drug of our time - Dr.Lester Grinspoon
                  In 1895, ‘Arabs . . . Armenians
                  [and] Turks’ grew Cannabis indica in central California to supply hash
                  to compatriots in San Francisco, and to smoke ‘kiff’ themselves.
                  Additionally, the u.s. army planted
                  marijuana in Panama in the 1920s for testing its effects on soldiers
                  The Dutch paid the Khoisan in 1713 with drugs rather than
                  food, goods or cash.
                  For the purposes of this research, Roger Adams had obtained red oil extract of the plant legally from the United States Department of the Treasury

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Tonygreen View Post
                    Shit, big thanks to Tom. Not that it means much during a pandemic, I know the drill, send checks and toilet paper ha!
                    But FWIW I've gotten more deep emotional responses to this line than any other. People really love it. It makes you feel good and ok and vibe not just stoned. I put on the description it makes you want to sing and it does lol. Cool flower.
                    hey Tony! is this cross released? thanks!
                    Mother hunt with Deep Cheese, Tangie, Zamaldelica, Pink Kush, Holy Grail Kush, SSH x Love Potion, Choco Candy and Philly Gold

                    "When you smoke the herb, it reveals you to yourself" - Bob Marley

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by GMT View Post
                      Mainly, how to explain a reliably observable 70% female and 30% male population, in the presence of and absence of, intersexed flowers.
                      I guess it just takes a small percentage of female plants to be monecious and therefore skew numbers a fully dioecious population is 50/50


                      [QUOTE]3.2 Sex assay validation
                      The CSP?1 assay was used to test a total of 2,170 plants of 14 cultivars. In all but one population the genetic male:female ratio fit the expected 1:1 model (Chi?square p > .05, Table S1). The individuals genetically scored as females were planted in field trials and the individuals genetically scored as males were discarded or moved to greenhouse conditions. Approximately 98% of the screened genetic females were phenotypically female. Approximately 1% of the screened genetic females were monoecious, including individuals from three cultivars (Table S1). Two screened plants were phenotypically male, and when retested, shown to be originally miscalled. About 270 plants genetically scored as male from four hemp cultivars were allowed to flower in greenhouse conditions, and all were phenotypically male (Table 2).

                      Perhaps a reason for a "male" in an all female population is that one of the females used for pollen had a auxin problem, as it is stated in the paper SamS put up -

                      The identification of the two QTLs for sex determination
                      across locations is a significant step toward understanding
                      the sex determination system (monecious and diecious) of
                      cannabis. Two auxin response factor genes (arf2 and arf5), bZIP
                      transcription factor 16-like and gene gibberellic acid insensitive
                      (gai) that codes for the DELLA RGL1-like protein were identified
                      in QTLSex_det1 for sex determination. These genes are involved
                      in the balance of the phytohormones auxins and gibberellic acid,
                      which are known to play an active role in the sex expression (male
                      or female) in many crops, such as hemp or spinach
                      It is likely that QTLSex_det1 contributes to regulate sex
                      determination by controlling the expression of male and female
                      inflorescences in a female genetic background, for example
                      through downregulation of gai gene and/or downregulation of
                      auxin response factor genes. Both effects might promote the
                      development of male flower organs in female plants, leading
                      to a monecious hemp.
                      Instead of a degenerating Y (though Y is bigger in Canna than other plants?) so has lots of copies and has been suggested that this lead to the heteromorphism of the sex chromosomes, so maybe they are the ones to self!!

                      https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/gcbb.12667
                      https://link.springer.com/article/10...A1026574405717

                      Comment


                        Hey Tom how ya doing? Happy New Year dude..

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Lester Beans View Post
                          Hey Tom how ya doing? Happy New Year dude..
                          Yeah ... x2

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Tom Hill View Post
                            Correct, the species as a whole rather than individual plants or groups of plants from within the species as we will ultimately find is the case with cannabis.

                            There has simply not been put forth working alternative theories to my mind how a measurably female bias group can achieve equalibrium other than an actively degenerating Y same as spontaneous entirely female seedlots other than easily affected X but by all means i am open to listening if anybody got some ha? Crickets.

                            One does not have* to work it out in their head before running off to the lab - but that is the tradition among higher mortals haha. If we do not understand what we are looking for then whats the friggin point.
                            Certation would lead to a skewed ratio, however I'm somewhat confused by the Y stuff and most likely need to give this thread a good read!! initially I read you were talking about a female lot having a "male" that was XX and then talk about populations as a whole whereby % are skewed??

                            https://www.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/...1111/evo.12283

                            Comment


                              I just received a Christmas gift in the mail. Principles of Plant Breeding by Allard.

                              However, this is the first edition (arguably a little more rare but doesn't seem to be up to modern par with its second edition.)

                              Has anyone taken the time to read both? I'm going to get the second edition no matter what but I wanted to see if anyone out there was familiar with this ur-text and wanted to jam about it.
                              Tell the people you love that you love them.

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                                Im still alive and kicking and praying this Rez Dog Double Strawberry Diesel bean pops.

                                Oh hello Tom.
                                Old round one of my last...
                                https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=199184

                                Finished Round
                                https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=190797


                                Double Strawberry Diesel, God's Gift, Cali-Orange and Friends!
                                https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=157514


                                My old Grow
                                http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=98985

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