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Name:	Tom_Hill_-_Haze.jpg
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ID:	17880903 Toms haze has always been something I want to try. I first saw that photo of the purple pheno with green buds over 10 years ago and it’s stuck in my head.
    I also like hearing that he has combined generations into his haze lines.

    Comment


      Originally posted by MAHA KALA View Post

      long. it is just dense like typical colombian gold is dense... so denser than oaxacans or thais... not all colombians are like that of course.
      Good to hear that. Most people just seem to take it for granted that pure haze = clear and speedy. Haze can be dank though!

      It's anyone's guess what's in the genetics of Ohaze but I find it suspicious we can't see it on Phylos although SamS almost definitely had it tested. Based on the antique Colombian samples there it would seem Colombian came about as a mix of African and then colonial Indian strains. The latter being similar to Manipur or Zamal, aka rainbowbud. Then when Thailand became the biggest player the green Thaisticks got mixed in. I don't know if there was also some hashplant (Lebanese?) influence through Panama red but I would expect that. Having grown many landraces sativas through the years nothing comes close to the dankness of a pure haze. I'm not really interested whether or not someone mixed in a bit of Kerala or Thai later on as I think those genes were already at the core of Colombian. Maybe not Kerala specifically but east Indian most definitely makes a big chunk of Haze.

      I'd love to see pictures of Todd's haze or the Flying Dutchmen version. Aren't they both a bit on the fatter side? I think it's likely that Tom worked his line from a selection different to the one from Seedsman. I don't see them as the same variety.
      We all have our crosses and IBLs to carry.

      Comment


        Narrow or wide leaves can be deceptive too! Sometimes when crossing unrelated sativas you will consistently get plants with narrower leaves than either parent! I've seen African sativas do that. I'm thinking about a certain Meao Thai x Angola cross. Neither parent was super lean looking but the cross had needle like leaves. Also hashplant x tropical crosses sometimes do this. I'm pretty sure I could "hide" Lebanese genes into a tropical sativa for example and get plants with super narrow leaves. The leaves mean very little, so does our indica-sativa stoner taxonomy.
        We all have our crosses and IBLs to carry.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Thule View Post

          Good to hear that. Most people just seem to take it for granted that pure haze = clear and speedy. Haze can be dank though!
          well man it is relative too. when I was kush and diesel smoker only. I smoked haze hybrids at weekend only. it seemed to me sativa enough, and energetic enough. but when I started to smoke tom hill haze regularly, even nevilles haze seems to me like indica LOL

          so now when somebody says that c5 is energetic smoke, I look at it like... WHAT?!?---

          it really depends on what you are used to...

          so ripe mango pheno, sour mango or green mango pheno of THoHz dont seem to me energetic enough. now cedar pheno is the whole different story. very speedy.

          acid pheno is energetic, but not speedy. it is all around different kind of weed from those other phenos... you will not hear about acid pheno from those colombian selections. it is just not trippy enough... but if you dont know acid pheno, it can seem to be trippy enough. for me those colombian selections are mildly trippy, like light mushroom tea. acid pheno kicks like real psychedelics.
          If all things were turned to smoke, the nostrils would distinguish them.

          Comment


            Originally posted by MAHA KALA View Post

            well man it is relative too. when I was kush and diesel smoker only. I smoked haze hybrids at weekend only. it seemed to me sativa enough, and energetic enough. but when I started to smoke tom hill haze regularly, even nevilles haze seems to me like indica LOL

            so now when somebody says that c5 is energetic smoke, I look at it like... WHAT?!?---

            it really depends on what you are used to...

            so ripe mango pheno, sour mango or green mango pheno of THoHz dont seem to me energetic enough. now cedar pheno is the whole different story. very speedy.

            acid pheno is energetic, but not speedy. it is all around different kind of weed from those other phenos... you will not hear about acid pheno from those colombian selections. it is just not trippy enough... but if you dont know acid pheno, it can seem to be trippy enough. for me those colombian selections are mildly trippy, like light mushroom tea. acid pheno kicks like real psychedelics.
            It sounds to me like I better get some Tom hill haze! Had seedsman cut for years would like something like that with more trip! acid pheno sounds like the holy grail. I remember Tom saying. It was like 1 in a 100.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Thule View Post
              Narrow or wide leaves can be deceptive too! Sometimes when crossing unrelated sativas you will consistently get plants with narrower leaves than either parent! I've seen African sativas do that. I'm thinking about a certain Meao Thai x Angola cross. Neither parent was super lean looking but the cross had needle like leaves. Also hashplant x tropical crosses sometimes do this. I'm pretty sure I could "hide" Lebanese genes into a tropical sativa for example and get plants with super narrow leaves. The leaves mean very little, so does our indica-sativa stoner taxonomy.
              I agree 100%
              A picture is worth a thousand words

              Comment


                Originally posted by MAHA KALA View Post

                well man it is relative too. when I was kush and diesel smoker only. I smoked haze hybrids at weekend only. it seemed to me sativa enough, and energetic enough. but when I started to smoke tom hill haze regularly, even nevilles haze seems to me like indica LOL

                so now when somebody says that c5 is energetic smoke, I look at it like... WHAT?!?---

                it really depends on what you are used to...

                so ripe mango pheno, sour mango or green mango pheno of THoHz dont seem to me energetic enough. now cedar pheno is the whole different story. very speedy.

                acid pheno is energetic, but not speedy. it is all around different kind of weed from those other phenos... you will not hear about acid pheno from those colombian selections. it is just not trippy enough... but if you dont know acid pheno, it can seem to be trippy enough. for me those colombian selections are mildly trippy, like light mushroom tea. acid pheno kicks like real psychedelics.
                Maha most here are not toking Ohaze selections on a regular basis, sucks to be them!!! hahaha!!! I agree with everything you have said. Original haze no matter which particular line varies a great amount with respect to nearly every aspect, growth, bud density, length of flowering, flavors and especially effects.

                For me its all about the effects of the haze. Its not something typical kush/ghani smokers are able to comprehend. It takes a lot of work to get to the end result and even longer for the cure and most of them would not take great enough care in either growth phase or curing to get that proper haze experience.

                I am actually grateful that I had such problems with the NH, A5 and Bandaid taking them even to 150 days flowering and ending in epic failure. It made me rethink everything I was doing. Now, I feel I am doing much better for the plants, understanding them more in many different ways. I also understand that I still have a great deal to learn, they are very strict teachers themselves the Haze and if you can grow them to near perfection I suspect that they will provide an even greater experience.

                Off to trim the THH. I hate trimming.
                LT
                LostTribe

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                Comment


                  me still learning too and I am growing THoHz from 2009

                  this another mix with THoHz, other components are oaxacan and bshw. we call it Surreal:

                  If all things were turned to smoke, the nostrils would distinguish them.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Thule View Post

                    Good to hear that. Most people just seem to take it for granted that pure haze = clear and speedy. Haze can be dank though!

                    It's anyone's guess what's in the genetics of Ohaze but I find it suspicious we can't see it on Phylos although SamS almost definitely had it tested. Based on the antique Colombian samples there it would seem Colombian came about as a mix of African and then colonial Indian strains. The latter being similar to Manipur or Zamal, aka rainbowbud. Then when Thailand became the biggest player the green Thaisticks got mixed in. I don't know if there was also some hashplant (Lebanese?) influence through Panama red but I would expect that. Having grown many landraces sativas through the years nothing comes close to the dankness of a pure haze. I'm not really interested whether or not someone mixed in a bit of Kerala or Thai later on as I think those genes were already at the core of Colombian. Maybe not Kerala specifically but east Indian most definitely makes a big chunk of Haze.

                    I'd love to see pictures of Todd's haze or the Flying Dutchmen version. Aren't they both a bit on the fatter side? I think it's likely that Tom worked his line from a selection different to the one from Seedsman. I don't see them as the same variety.
                    im going to follow up on this with you on the TFD pics in the distant future
                    definitely some differences
                    "if" the biggest small word in the dictionary

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Sub24ox7 View Post


                      It sounds to me like I better get some Tom hill haze! Had seedsman cut for years would like something like that with more trip! acid pheno sounds like the holy grail. I remember Tom saying. It was like 1 in a 100.
                      yeah it is probability. reality can be different. you can get lucky and get it in 5 females, or unlucky and not find it in 100 females... but it is not so rare imo.

                      it is similar like with thai landraces. you need 50 females to find the keeper usually...

                      but remember that I dont grow it indoors at all...

                      for indoors I grow hybrids. and unfortunately if you cross acid haze, not every other pheno of progeny is acid... it doesn't work like that. unfortunately.
                      If all things were turned to smoke, the nostrils would distinguish them.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Thule View Post

                        .

                        I'd love to see pictures of Todd's haze or the Flying Dutchmen version. Aren't they both a bit on the fatter side? I think it's likely that Tom worked his line from a selection different to the one from Seedsman. I don't see them as the same variety.
                        Tom Hill states his line is thai dominant... or thai like if you want, sure it is not pure thai. same for seedsman it is colombian gold dominant, but not like pure colombian gold from the 70s...

                        it is still polyhybrid and it all depends on pheno you get and choose to use in selection.
                        I like red magenta pheno, I lost it unfortunately... there are yellowy red ones... rainbow ones, lime green ones, quite a lot of phenos in THoHz...
                        If all things were turned to smoke, the nostrils would distinguish them.

                        Comment


                          f13haze. haze dominant imo. you can see typical THoHz structure...





                          If all things were turned to smoke, the nostrils would distinguish them.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by MAHA KALA View Post

                            Tom Hill states his line is thai dominant... or thai like if you want, sure it is not pure thai. same for seedsman it is colombian gold dominant, but not like pure colombian gold from the 70s...

                            it is still polyhybrid and it all depends on pheno you get and choose to use in selection.
                            I like red magenta pheno, I lost it unfortunately... there are yellowy red ones... rainbow ones, lime green ones, quite a lot of phenos in THoHz...
                            I tend to take breeders claims of dominance by this or that variety with a grain of salt. That is unless they bred the whole thing by themselves. Otherwise they're making an educated guess.

                            I'm under the impression that Colombian Gold was born from the mixing of old Colombian with Thaistick to begin with. That's certainly what Phylos seems to imply. Massive influx of "Thai" throughout South America sometime after the 50's. Oldtimers Haze would seem to be pretty much pure Colombian Gold genetically. I doubt the red phenotypes that we know exist within the same strain would have been called "Gold" upon arriving to America, so the nomenclature is a mess.

                            I waiting for Ace to re-release their Chiang Mai Thai. Supposedly an oldschool pure Green Thai. Before I grow any of those I'm also just speculating what Thai influence looks like..

                            We all have our crosses and IBLs to carry.

                            Comment


                              I would say that phylos is big mess and absolutely unreliable. label like "colombian gold" talks about character of herb. and phylos has nothing to say about characteristics... there is clear difference between thai stick effect and colombian gold effect... it is clear. but it is unclear how phylos would be able to distinguish between effect of thai stick and effect of colombian gold, it is done by smokers.

                              dont understand. red lines were called red because they were red. they got mixed into haze, and there is phenotype of it, it doesn't mean it is red line... haze is big mix... just all the popular weed in Usa from late 60s to late 70s are mixed in.. first it was mexicans, later colombians were mixed and thai stick imported to Usa were mixed in too. Skunkman grabbed this mix and brought it into Holland, and some selections were done. thats all.

                              Tom Hill is not only one who says it is like thai. I know Australian grower who grew Tom Hill original haze, and he said it is almost identical to legendary aussi variety called Mango Heads sativa(thai weed)... so I would say, listen to real people and not to phylos LOL Tom Hill Haze has definitely south asian character, no doubt about it. phylos cant say anything about character. - these all was already said in this thread though....

                              little quote from guy who knows mango sativa very well:

                              smoked Mango heads from northern nsw in the early to mid nineties and it was amazing. I got some in Macksville as a teenager in the nineties and my best guess is that it was Thai or Vietnamese that come from Thai Buddha sticks or a returning war veteran. I remember getting a shopping bag full, buds still on branches with a sickly sweet mango smell and the smoke was soft and smooth but extremely powerful. Some branches had purple buds that smelt sweet strawberry bubblegum and a different taste all on the same branch that had Mango heads. There were a few seeds that had trade mark tiger stripes wish I could find it again!
                              If all things were turned to smoke, the nostrils would distinguish them.

                              Comment


                                old timer haze, I grew it, it is for sure colombian. not colombian gold at all though... more corinthians, Llanos green and santa marta red mix..

                                like Tom Hill said, his line is different weed from anything else, including dutch hazes... which are colombian gold based imo... according to effect, not to phylos.

                                it is know fact that thai weed is absolutely different category than colombians....
                                If all things were turned to smoke, the nostrils would distinguish them.

                                Comment

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