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    Income tax is IMMORAL it discourages productivity. Thomas Jefferson said it was an assualt and violation of free association (see first amendment).

    If you want to tax shit tax it. Tax the keg of beer. Tax the oz of cannabis. Tax the gallon of gas. Tax the bushel of wheat.

    But why for gods sakes is it important to penalize the productive producers of beer in favor of the shit heads who could produce to standard?

    Not complaining about raising money just asking why we should collect from the producers and subsidies the failures?

    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." ~ Samuel Adams

    "To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association -- the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, and the fruits acquired by it." ~Thomas Jefferson

    The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. ~Fed 47, A. Hamilton & J. Madison
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      I wouldn't be surprised if Walmart employs 7 or 8 figures. IMO, they should still pay their fair share. It would be pennies on the crap they sell yet help fill deficit coffers.

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        There should be no us v them, they paying. If tax on every piece of shit they sold was taxed (or not in the case of food or other exceptions) then all would be good.

        The game of not making taxable income but making money is the problem, not the players.

        "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." ~ Samuel Adams

        "To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association -- the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, and the fruits acquired by it." ~Thomas Jefferson

        The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. ~Fed 47, A. Hamilton & J. Madison
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          Originally posted by Hydrosun View Post
          Income tax is IMMORAL it discourages productivity. Thomas Jefferson said it was an assualt and violation of free association (see first amendment).

          If you want to tax shit tax it. Tax the keg of beer. Tax the oz of cannabis. Tax the gallon of gas. Tax the bushel of wheat.

          But why for gods sakes is it important to penalize the productive producers of beer in favor of the shit heads who could produce to standard?

          Not complaining about raising money just asking why we should collect from the producers and subsidies the failures?

          I think TJ would have had a hard time building schools, roads, bridges, sewers and everything that keep us from living and acting like the Flintstones. Besides, I think Jefferson was talking about lining the pockets of the king. He's rolled in his grave immeasurably by the second attempt of corporate welfare... with the first one causing a great depression. Depression 2.0 will be too big to fail.

          I think subsidies are intended to support that which we can't effectively plan. Big Ag, big oil and pretty much all giant subs started as smaller operations. Without subsidies, Cali could overgrow it's effective market. I'm no economist and make no personal assumptions over weed subsidies but the theory could apply if and when we're there.

          I think big oil posts enough sustained profits in the last decade to be weaned from the dole. I'm not so sure about farmers. Grow too much of one thing and market chaos wrecks elements of the ability to continue.

          At some point, capitalism inevitably says, "I ain't doing that for less than _____. Government turns to the taxpayer to help these industries working for us. Too much swing in the last 30 years has many of em working against us.

          Freedom's a great thing except for the peeps that would (IMO) exploit it and the rest of us.

          Comment


            Originally posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
            I think TJ would have had a hard time building schools, roads, bridges, sewers and everything that keep us from living and acting like the Flintstones. Besides, I think Jefferson was talking about lining the pockets of the king. He's rolled in his grave immeasurably by the second attempt of corporate welfare... with the first one causing a great depression. Depression 2.0 will be too big to fail.

            I think subsidies are intended to support that which we can't effectively plan. Big Ag, big oil and pretty much all giant subs started as smaller operations. Without subsidies, Cali could overgrow it's effective market. I'm no economist and make no personal assumptions over weed subsidies but the theory could apply if and when we're there.

            I think big oil posts enough sustained profits in the last decade to be weaned from the dole. I'm not so sure about farmers. Grow too much of one thing and market chaos wrecks elements of the ability to continue.

            At some point, capitalism inevitably says, "I ain't doing that for less than _____. Government turns to the taxpayer to help these industries working for us. Too much swing in the last 30 years has many of em working against us.

            Freedom's a great thing except for the peeps that would (IMO) exploit it and the rest of us.
            Not true dude, Jefferson was stating that AN INCOME tax is a violation of FREE ASSOCIATION (the US Constitution's 1st amendment). Because Jefferson was correct a constitutional amendment was required for us to get FUCKED with an INCOME TAX. The income tax didn't come to being until 1913. America was far from a road-less shit hole at that time. America's had invented the automobile, had an industrial revolution, and fielded an army and navy large enough to cross the pond and fight the Gerrie's "Over There." Far from Flintstones land.

            I am 100% with you on removing ALL welfare: corporate, religious, agricultural, and individual. It is much harder to exploit the FREE when NO ONE is ENTITLED to anything, except the results of their own efforts. If you are obligated to the government or the king are you truly free?

            Government is the problem not the solution.

            "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." ~ Samuel Adams

            "To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association -- the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, and the fruits acquired by it." ~Thomas Jefferson

            The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. ~Fed 47, A. Hamilton & J. Madison
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              Tax was a reaction to communism.

              It was a backup plan just in case communism was better.

              But tax was used to cripple communism, so we never really found out.

              Capitalism is a big bully.

              You take from whoever you can get it. And if you can't get it, you take it anyways.

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                What you are describing is DESPOTISM not capitalism. Was it DB that said the enemies of freemen seek to hijack words and language?

                Capitalism REQUIRES freely entered into contracts and 100% freedom of contract for ALL economic actors.

                Tell me TorL are you are capitalist when harvesting and trading cannabis, or are you a surf tied to the land who owes his harvest to the fief?

                "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." ~ Samuel Adams

                "To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association -- the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, and the fruits acquired by it." ~Thomas Jefferson

                The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. ~Fed 47, A. Hamilton & J. Madison
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                  Originally posted by Hydrosun View Post
                  What you are describing is DESPOTISM not capitalism. Was it DB that said the enemies of freemen seek to hijack words and language?

                  Capitalism REQUIRES freely entered into contracts and 100% freedom of contract for ALL economic actors.

                  Tell me TorL are you are capitalist when harvesting and trading cannabis, or are you a surf tied to the land who owes his harvest to the fief?

                  judging by these court fees and fines and having to pay the man all sorts of dues i would say in my own personal situation i am very much surfin getting fiefed

                  maybe if i "step my game up" and get a 10k warehouse I can be more of a capitalist?

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                    NO number of lights can change the fact that the man is fining you for something. Stepping your game up might not be a bad idea, but the changes need not have anything to do with cannabis. The USA is not a capitalist country, so if you want to really be a capitalist get off the mans radar and then freely enter into contracts with others. I am sorry that you feel like a surf (as well as being treated like one) in this the land of the UNFREE.

                    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." ~ Samuel Adams

                    "To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association -- the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, and the fruits acquired by it." ~Thomas Jefferson

                    The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. ~Fed 47, A. Hamilton & J. Madison
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                      Originally posted by Hydrosun View Post
                      NO number of lights can change the fact that the man is fining you for something. Stepping your game up might not be a bad idea, but the changes need not have anything to do with cannabis. The USA is not a capitalist country, so if you want to really be a capitalist get off the mans radar and then freely enter into contracts with others. I am sorry that you feel like a surf (as well as being treated like one) in this the land of the UNFREE.

                      Woah. Hold the freaking celery.

                      The USA is not a capitalist country, ANYMORE.

                      The capitalists have moved on to bigger and brighter multinational prospects.

                      The capitalists have gambling websites operated from offshore casinos with funds dumped into offshore banks while they sit back on their yacht parked off their island eating alaskan crabs flown fresh in on their helicopter kicked back with their feet up staring at their multithousandsqft mansion villa private resort

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                        Hey dude, there is no such thing as off shore this or that. Good for them having gambling sights. This concept implies that being born in one place or another makes one human or another better.

                        BUT you are VERY correct the USA is NO LONGER a capitalist country. Very sad.

                        "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." ~ Samuel Adams

                        "To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association -- the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, and the fruits acquired by it." ~Thomas Jefferson

                        The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. ~Fed 47, A. Hamilton & J. Madison
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                          Originally posted by Hydrosun View Post
                          Not true dude, Jefferson was stating that AN INCOME tax is a violation of FREE ASSOCIATION (the US Constitution's 1st amendment). Because Jefferson was correct a constitutional amendment was required for us to get FUCKED with an INCOME TAX. The income tax didn't come to being until 1913. America was far from a road-less shit hole at that time. America's had invented the automobile, had an industrial revolution, and fielded an army and navy large enough to cross the pond and fight the Gerrie's "Over There." Far from Flintstones land.

                          I am 100% with you on removing ALL welfare: corporate, religious, agricultural, and individual. It is much harder to exploit the FREE when NO ONE is ENTITLED to anything, except the results of their own efforts. If you are obligated to the government or the king are you truly free?

                          Government is the problem not the solution.

                          I recall reading of the Roaring '20s. It was only roaring for folks with money to burn. I'm pretty damn old and public school history actually used to teach what happened when regulation was nonexistent. Upton Sinclair and Ralph Nader were required reading.

                          I also read Atlas Shrugged. IMO, he shrugged in the 20s. Aside from a handful of affluent cities, America was Appalachia coast to coast.

                          To me, freedom also means the freedom of others to bend us over for profits. Three US nuclear installations have been superseded by the NRC with third-level violations. The next level is shut down.

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                            The Jungle is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Required reading is an oxymoron because many in this country have NEVER read a 300 page book. Requiring it be done is like asking monkeys to recreate Shakespeare on typewriters.

                            I don't know about the nuke issue, I just know that American's in 1910 were better read and better spoken than American's in 2010.

                            As for shrugging in 1920's at some point America went from "Give me your poor, your weak, your huddled masses yearning to be be free." To "GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE YOU CRAZY MEXICAN"

                            When that happened America was no longer FREE or Capitalists.

                            "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." ~ Samuel Adams

                            "To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association -- the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, and the fruits acquired by it." ~Thomas Jefferson

                            The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. ~Fed 47, A. Hamilton & J. Madison
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                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Hydrosun View Post
                              NO number of lights can change the fact that the man is fining you for something. Stepping your game up might not be a bad idea, but the changes need not have anything to do with cannabis. The USA is not a capitalist country, so if you want to really be a capitalist get off the mans radar and then freely enter into contracts with others. I am sorry that you feel like a surf (as well as being treated like one) in this the land of the UNFREE.

                              I think the closest free that comes to mind is Abu Dhabi. A read of business in AD reads like "who's screwing whom". And that's the rich people. The rest are poor, no in between.

                              I also thought about Donald Trump bragging about screwing over folks on land deals and this is qualification for the presidency.

                              And tax-havens exist. They are real and they do exactly what they suggest, shelter accounts from taxes.

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                                Originally posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
                                And tax-havens exist. They are real and they do exactly what they suggest, shelter accounts from taxes.
                                Income Taxes are IMMORAL, how about HAVENS exist BECAUSE the tyranny of thugs and extortionist governments have driven like minded individuals to ban together and HONOR confidentiality and privacy?

                                "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." ~ Samuel Adams

                                "To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association -- the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, and the fruits acquired by it." ~Thomas Jefferson

                                The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. ~Fed 47, A. Hamilton & J. Madison
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