Questions about California MMP

Hey all. I've got a few questions concerning the California Medical Marijuana Program. It is my understanding that the Prop 215 protects med users with a doctors recommendation for the use of medical marijuana, but in order to be fully protected under SB 420 (from law enforcement) you should have the state registered MMP ID card. Would you recommend this?

My only hesitency is that I unfortunately don't trust our federal government , and I know that you name is put into a state database of users that could potentially be used in a federal prosecution. I would like to think the chances of this are slim, but I just don't know. It's a double edged sword it seems. If I don't get it, I'm only mildly protected as a med user, but if I do get it I may put myself at an even greater risk. What do you guys think?

I really wish I could smoke without having to worry, but I'm just not that faithful in the system yet. Thanks for any input you can provide.

Stay safe.

DELTA 9 THC as a fellow 215 member im deeply saddend to tell you...
the proposition or SB-420 does NOTHING to help us. thats right.
i grow under the rules of sb420 and prop215 just for shits sake. but my lawyer told me (after i got into trouble) that the card is almost useless. its only a defence once your in court, i repeat ONLY A DEFENCE ONCE YOU GET TO COURT. just like s crip on a vicoden bottle. they can still bust you for your pills anyway. back to 215. ive been at a house that was... well raided. and they dont just stop and say "ohh your a med patiant" and walk out.... NOOOOOO quite the opposite. they try to punish you harder. when your in court they push that your abusing the med system and say your a dealer anyway.... its an awful viciouse cycle.
now. back to the MMP ID card. there is none thats a state card. only countys. dont do it yet. your right about the systems leading to your own arrest. IMO
now what my lawyer tells me (glew & kim right out of NORML) is that 'if they show up looking for you, your in trouble." so my take is just skate under the radar and well be ok. hes told me that its up to you too keep out of trouble and grow smart. whats even more BS he told me that i should just act like i dont have it! hes a very expensive and good mj lawyer but the system just is not there for us yet.

EDIT:
just to let you know. i got pulled over had an 1/8 in my car and argued with the pig, erm cop for 30 min about the legality. he still gave me a ticket and the judge still didnt uphold the proposition. i told him he cant pick and choose what laws he uphold and what he dosent, he told me he dosent care and still handed me an illegal punishment. im current countersuing for false imprisonment, harrasment, and verbal assault.
GOOD LUCK

federally speaking a doctors recomendation doesn't mean a thing....since the federal government still classifies marijuana as a "drug". Second off, the only thing that matters in the state of California legally is your actual doctors rec. If you are within the state limit of plants the state of California has no right to do anything, being your not breaking any state laws.

ZEROKOOL said:

the proposition or SB-420 does NOTHING to help us. ... i repeat ONLY A DEFENCE ONCE YOU GET TO COURT.
EDIT:
just to let you know. i got pulled over had an 1/8 in my car and argued with the pig, erm cop for 30 min about the legality. he still gave me a ticket and the judge still didnt uphold the proposition. i told him he cant pick and choose what laws he uphold and what he dosent, he told me he dosent care and still handed me an illegal punishment. im current countersuing for false imprisonment, harrasment, and verbal assault.
GOOD LUCK

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Prop 215 was only a defense in court. SB420 is law and says if you are within your limits you cannot be arrested.
http://www.chrisconrad.com/expert.witness/sb420-03.htm
"It stops arrests -- not just prosecutions -- of qualified individuals for possession, transportation, delivery or cultivation up to a very minimal level of 8 oz and 6 plants per patient (that could arguably be hash or hash oil, which would be equivalent to more, I'm not sure what it does about tinctures,which have a lot of liquid weight) 11362.71(e)

11362.71(e) No person or designated primary caregiver in possession of a valid identification card shall be subject to arrest for possession, transportation, delivery, or cultivation of medical marijuana in an amount established pursuant to this article, unless there is reasonable cause to believe that the information contained in the card is false or falsified, the card has been obtained by means of fraud, or the person is otherwise in violation of the provisions of this article.

11362.78. A state or local law enforcement agency or officer shall not refuse to accept an identification card issued by the department unless the state or local law enforcement agency or officer has reasonable cause to believe that the information contained in the card is false or fraudulent, or the card is being used fraudulently."

So get your card if available.

Of course the pigs hate this law and can and do anything they can to circumvent it but you could be just like URZICEANU and win on appeal. The original judge may think he can do whatever he wants but thats the great thing about sb420 is many more people are winning on appeal because of it than before when it was just 215.

sb420 is a relatively new law and has greatly expanded our rights and the confusion just lies in the courts trying to implement this new law. As time goes on the cops and courts are going to realize just how powerful sb420 is for us patients and the wild west days of them popping everyone are going to greatly diminish because they are gonna realize they are opening themselves up for more potential lawsuits if they keep acting the way they always have.

You and your lawyer should read sb420 sometime, as in every single word of it, you might be suprised to find just how much power it gives patients, caregivers, growers, sellers (clubs), etc.

And about the state database as a link to fed prosecution, lol, just how many people do you think they've got working at the DEA?
ASA estimates 200,000+ CA patients under 215. You think the DEA is gonna bring cases on 200,000+ people?

Thanks for the replies guys.

ZeroKool: So would you suggest not even bothering with a recommendation? I am in enough pain day to day because of a motorcycle accident that I can't sleep... which ends up leaving me so fatigued I can barely work. Marijuana helps me cope with these problems, but if the law can't protect me, what hope do I have? Did you have a county issued card when you were stopped? This is my main concern; transportation and smoking somewhere other than in my own house. Oh, and of course my girls in my closet.

hillbillieonpcp: I understand that the federal government still says it's illegal based on some outdated medical studies done back when. However, I'm not a dealer nor anything which should bring upon the suspicion of anyone beyond the possible run in with state and local law enforcement. So, if a police officer somehow sees 4 plants in my house, he cannot cite be if I merely show him a piece of paper with my doctors signature and credentials?

Inflorescence: Thanks for offering some hope, but there's little argument about the fact that police don't always uphold the law but very frequently hassle and botch reports to make convictions. I don't have a lawyer, so I'm relying on my own wits and knowledge of the laws to keep me out of trouble. I'm curious to know if ZeroKool had a gov. issued card when he was cited. Do you personally know of people who have been let off because they could present the card which protects them under SB420? Perhaps I should read both bills very carefully, not just online synompses. Thank you for your input, I appreciate it. While I would certainly hope no federal reprecussions could amount from obtaining a gov. issued card, who's to say what the future holds in store. I'm probably on the younger end of users on the board, I would hate to have my need for help now land me a seat behind bars later in life. See question below:

If I desire to get a county issued mmj ID card, does my recommendation have to be from my personal practitioner? I don't want to spark a debate here as to whether I have medical necessity, but I'd hope that my normal doctor is compassionate enough to help me out rather than seeing a private practice in Oakland. Any thoughts in this regard?

Regular practitioners are still wary to hand out med recs because of pressure from the federal level. Eventhough the doctors are extremly well protected under 215 within the state, the feds have tried to get their licenses removed anyways. So, probably the pot doc is the best bet, but any docs signiture and stamp will do, probably even a dentists.

you should deffinetly get your recomendation, that part has zero connection to anything beyond the doctor files.

as for the county card offering arrest protection, going to depend on the county, the city, even the cop. I havent gotten a card because their is also a clause in sb420 that says something to the effect that the cards are optional and the protections given to card holders is extended to all patients.

weed_snob said:

Regular practitioners are still wary to hand out med recs because of pressure from the federal level. Eventhough the doctors are extremly well protected under 215 within the state, the feds have tried to get their licenses removed anyways.

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Here's a cut and paste from norml.org
" Many physicians wrongly fear that they can be prosecuted under federal law for recommending marijuana medically. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has upheld a permanent injunction by the U.S. District Court in Northern California forbidding the government from punishing California doctors for recommending marijuana under Prop. 215. The US Supreme Court has upheld the Ninth Circuit's ruling (Conant v. Walters: Oct. 15, 2003). Physicians are accordingly free to recommend marijuana for their patients, so long as they don't actually assist them in obtaining it (see California NORML's Medical Marijuana Guidlines for Physicians). Over 1500 California physicians have recommended medical marijuana under Prop. 215. None have been federally prosecuted for doing so."

weed_snob said:

I havent gotten a card because their is also a clause in sb420 that says something to the effect that the cards are optional and the protections given to card holders is extended to all patients.

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I believe the CHP has ruled that only a card will be enough to keep a patient from being arrested. I think they ruled that a rec wasn't enough, or if it was it had to be an original rec.

from sb420:
"11362.71.(f) It shall not be necessary for a person to obtain an identification card in order to claim the protections of Section 11362.5."
but section 11362.5 is actually prop 215, not sb420 so Ii'm a little unclear on whether a patient receives all the proctection of sb420 without a card or just the parts that say you don't need a card.

I don't trust my corrupt local government at all! I carry a copy of my rec in my purse. Getting a rec is easy if you have a valid medical condition. They are busting any med patients who are out of compliance (over the 6 mature plants or 12 immature limit) in my county. I keep strictly below my limits by at least one plant.

Thanks again for the suggestions. The reason I asked about which physician is allowed to make the rec is because the California MMP card its pretty much directly tagged to that doctor and they're very specific in that you need to notify them promptly should your "attending physician" change. Well who is my attending physician? The one I receive immunizations from, or the one who makes the rec?

inflorescence said:

sb420 is a relatively new law and has greatly expanded our rights and the confusion just lies in the courts trying to implement this new law. As time goes on the cops and courts are going to realize just how powerful sb420 is for us patients and the wild west days of them popping everyone are going to greatly diminish because they are gonna realize they are opening themselves up for more potential lawsuits if they keep acting the way they always have.

You and your lawyer should read sb420 sometime, as in every single word of it, you might be suprised to find just how much power it gives patients, caregivers, growers, sellers (clubs), etc.

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MAN!!! you live in a dream world!!!!! WAKE UP!!! the cops dont give a shit!!! arrest, take MJ, put you in jail, ask questions later!!! jees where do you live.
second SB420 isnt new its 2.5 years old!!!!!! YEARS! also, "the card" is from the gov. and there not giving them away yet. if they dont give a shit about your 11362.5 paper. what makes you think there gona care about "the card"
also. the new thing is to take the people to court and make em go through the process. FIND OUt who there DR is and have the FDA go after there medical lic. please. dont cut and paste from NORML.ORG and yap about how much rights we have. it dosent work like that out on the streets. FOOL. the audacity of you!!!

Δ9-THC - YESS GET YOUR CARD!!!! it cant hurt. and if you do get in trouble IT WILL HELP IN COURT.besides you can go to the dispensaries and get good ganja to make you sleep.

what this is about is not getting in trouble. now sometimes cops are cool. not always though. and sometimes you could show your card to the cop and get off like i said before, if they come looking for you, its not gona help shit.

i grow so i can smoke nice stuff. not to get rich. so im assuming when other people do the same we dont draw attention to our selves.

inflorescence- with all the stupid things your saying i wonder where you live. maybe you live in cali too. californians are stupid. CHP accepts the paper too THERE IS NO ID CARD PROGRAM YET, yes the Senate bill says there is, but its not in place.


CHP is actualy the best bet for getting pulled over with MJ sheriffs arrest you. card or not. one time i had 20+cops and the DEA at my car all looking at my paper trying to figure out what to do with my high-ass self.

there are id card programs up and running, just not in every county and it seems their will never be a state wide system.

also when you get you rec make sure your doctor gives you a plant number and holding amount, the local guidlines are always changing and 6-12 plants limits what type of grow scheduals you can run.

inflorescence said:

The original judge may think he can do whatever he wants but thats the great thing about sb420 is many more people are winning on appeal because of it than before when it was just 215.

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ZEROKOOL, it's already happening:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=724716#post724716

Storm Crow said:

I don't trust my corrupt local government at all! I carry a copy of my rec in my purse. Getting a rec is easy if you have a valid medical condition. They are busting any med patients who are out of compliance (over the 6 mature plants or 12 immature limit) in my county. I keep strictly below my limits by at least one plant.

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Umm, Storm Crow...

Did you know that "6 mature or 12 immature" isn't a limit. It's a MINIMUM.
Localities as well as your Doctor can allow higher amounts.

No one needs to settle for "6 or 12" if you need more.

I'm written for 70 plants and 3lbs and I'm in a county who's FLOOR MINIMUM is SB420 minimums of "6 or 12".

Just keeping the facts...factual

Be Well Dear!

interesting delta. the english i know says thats maximum. id like to know your doc. mine says we have to follow the SB guidelines. id like to follow your doctors private guidelines. wait? is that legal?

Sounds like you've got a foul taste in your mouth after getting reamed up the ass, ZEROKOOL.

Though I've heard of cases where people didn't have such pleasant experiences, a majority of the possession cases where the patient carried a card or a recommendation was let go and allowed to keep the meds. This was in both San Francisco and Oakland, and the amounts were ~1 oz.

ZEROKOOL said:

interesting delta. the english i know says thats maximum. id like to know your doc. mine says we have to follow the SB guidelines. id like to follow your doctors private guidelines. wait? is that legal?

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"11362.77. (a) A qualified patient or primary caregiver may possess no more than eight ounces of dried marijuana per qualified patient. In addition, a qualified patient or primary caregiver may also maintain no more than six mature or 12 immature marijuana plants per qualified patient.
(b) If a qualified patient or primary caregiver has a doctor's recommendation that this quantity does not meet the qualified patient' s medical needs, the qualified patient or primary caregiver may possess an amount of marijuana consistent with the patient's needs.
(c) Counties and cities may retain or enact medical marijuana guidelines allowing qualified patients or primary caregivers to exceed the state limits set forth in subdivision (a).
(d) Only the dried mature processed flowers of female cannabis plant or the plant conversion shall be considered when determining allowable quantities of marijuana under this section."

inflorescence said:

ZEROKOOL, it's already happening:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=724716#post724716

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yea man, you dont get what im saying. i dont have 20,000 or hell even 5 or 10 thousand to throw at some retard lawyer to argue with the cops over the fact of my OZ being legal or not. the paper dosent do any good untill you get to court, you keep reafirming what im saying man!
the paper is useless on the street!!!
also people do stupid things.like own a scale, thats dumb. also people sell to tohers, that gets you in trouble too. so if your gona be a "thug" or sell then you cant hide behind the medical defence.

ZEROKOOL said:

yea man, you dont get what im saying. i dont have 20,000 or hell even 5 or 10 thousand to throw at some retard lawyer to argue with the cops over the fact of my OZ being legal or not. the paper dosent do any good untill you get to court, you keep reafirming what im saying man!
the paper is useless on the street!!!
.

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I hear what your saying about the streets but what I'm saying is I don't care what the cops think either, I ONLY care about what the judge says.
If you spend the night in jail, it's just part of this war but it's the conviction part I care about and the few judges who wrongly convict are being overturned on appeal.
If you want justice you have to be willing to go through an appeals process, to the supreme court if need be. It's just the way the system works. But thankfully there are those who have gone thru the appeals process because those people are setting precedents left and right that are allowing people like us to use, transport, grow AND sell MJ (as a co-op).

well shit if you want to endure the whole ordeal yea, well win. i dont want to, i cant afford it. but if i had to endure an arrest and legal battle, id win too its about what your doing and who your lawyer is. at least in cali.

yea thats all fine and dandy, im just saying the paper in general isnt a do what you want permit. there is care involved. i took my case to court and countersued so they dont get another lagit 'ticket' or 'bust' id fight till i die for the cause, but what i was saying is that its still a hassle im just trying to make people aware that its not a 'show the cop this and everything is ok' type of thing. i dotn want to lose my crop my oz's chilling or my bongs. i have a feeling if i did get puled over with weed id lose my apt too from being in jail and not making money. id get away with it in the long run, but losing everything i have and starting over isnt a good outlook. card or not when they come to your house shits going down hill. alot of people dont want/have the time/money to deal with it. and they should still try to be 'stealth' as to avoid this catastrophy.