600 Watt Super Silver Haze and Stonhedge top feed drip bucket grow

Whatup ICMAG!!!!

This is truly a day among days. . . My first grow is up and running!!! I can't wait to see the results. It took A LOT OF WORK to set everything up. More importantly it cost a lot of money. I guess I could've done this grow for a little cheaper but, then again, I am a newb and mistakes are part of the learning process. Ok so here goes, let me tell you where my girls are living. . .

Cabinet:
Dimensions (WxLxH): 48" x 32 x 64"
Volume: 57 ft^3
The cabinet itself is raised off the floor so I could get the returns from my bucket higher than the res (work with gravity not against it). In the back of my mind I also thought that this might improve airflow beneath the cab and keep it a little cooler.
I built the cabinet using Tick's instructions (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=27982). Obviously the dimensions are different than what he constructed. I had to make the box much higher because my buckets are so tall (around 18"). If I could do this over, I probably would've just constructed a room in my basement using some 2X4s and black and white plastic. . . The building of the cabinet itself wasn't that hard but fitting all the components in was a real pain (especially since I put the mylar up way to early!!!)

Everything up and running:


With the door closed . . .:


Hydro System:
I decided to go with a top feed nested bucket drip system. I have six buckets. Just for everyone who doesn't know what this is, I'll summarize it real quickly. Basically a 5 gallon bucket is outfitted with a drain hole, nozzle, and drain line about 2" up from the bottom. Holes are drilled into the bottom of a seperate 3 gallon bucket. When the system is set up, the 3 gallon bucket contains clay pebbles (hydroton), a rockwool block, and obviously your strain of choice. A drip emitter is run constantly into the 3 gallon bucket. The water drains down through all the pebbles and through the holes in the bottom bucket. Since the drain for the 5 gallon is 2" from the bottom, there will be a mini reservoir in each bucket. In the "mini res" there is an airstone connected to an air pump which aerates the water, providing oxygen to the roots once they grow through the holes in the 3 gallon bucket. Search "root porn" here on ICMAG and you will get an idea of what I'm talking about.

I used 1/2" utility hose for my main supply and drain lines from each bucket. Coming off of the main supply line are 1/4" tubing drip lines for each bucket. The 1/4" hose was connected to the main supply line by 1/4" "T" barbs. So 2 dripper lines come off from each "T" barb making a total of 3 T-barbs in the main supply line. The dripper lines are conncted to drip rings because the flow seemed a little strong for any one drip line. I put these drip rings around the plants right on the surface of the clay pebbles.

I'm using a 350 gph mag drive pump that I bought at a pet store. My Optima air pump was bought at the same store although I'm having second thoughts about it. . . more on this below.

Basic Layout of hoses and what not:

Nozzle and connector for the buckets:

Reservoir and Pump (on the left):


Ventillation:
I have a 265 dayton squirrel cage fan venting the top of the cabinet into the basement. This fan will be attached to a homeade scrubber I built by following DurbanPoison's instructions (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=509470#post509470). I'm leaving it off right now cause my plants don't smell yet and I need the larger ventillation capacity since it's quite hot outside. There are two 5" X 13" passive vents on the bottom of the cabinet that allow in fresh air. All my wires for my light and airhose also pass through a hole I made next to the side of one of the vents.

My Light is air cooled by an 8" vortex inline fan. 8" flexible ducting (bought from Grainger) connects the fan to the light and the light to the outside of my cab. So the order of components in the direction of air flow is like this: mini piece of 8" ducting>8" vortex fan> 8" ducting through wall of cabinet>hood>8" ducting through other wall of cabinet. All the holes in the cabinet for the ducting were sealed with silicone and foil backed tape. As you can see, the light is just vented using the air the room the cabinet is in, there is no outside air.

Temperatures are around 3-5 F above ambient temperature. I'm gonna be honest, I had a really tough time hooking my ventillation up. My trouble was mainly due to the fact that I was using cheap inline fans bought from home depot (they call them "duct booster fans"). They hardly had any effect on the temperature of my cabinet. Before I got the vortex and the squirrel cage, temperatures were easily 10-15 degrees above ambient. The duct booster fans are really not suitable for our purposes. They are cheap and can just not push enough air despite their CFM ratings. . . Don't waste your money like me!! Buy a vortex and/or squirrel cage blower. Most fans are under $200.00 (I bought mine from www.MDhydro.com for $188.00) which is not that much money. The two fans were the most expensive components of my system besides my light but I figure that they will last a while and I can use them with other setups if need be. Plus, my plants will be nice and cool. No worries, no problems.

The Vortex air cooling the light:

The Squirrel Cage Fan on the back of the cab for the exhaust:


Lighting:
Ahh, the most important part of any grow. I'm using a lumatech 600 W digital ballast with a hortilux HPS bulb. I can't wait to see how my girls do under this light. My hood is a Hydrofarm 8" radian AC. I had originally bought a regular Hydrofarm Radian but during my ventillation difficulties I decided to return it (always a good reason to buy expensive things locally) because I didn't think enough air was getting in through those 8" flanges. If anyone is looking at the Radian, I would suggest going with the AC version even if you are not air cooling it (you might want too eventually). It's not that much more expensive than the radian and the reflective surface lost to the 8" diameter connections for air is negligible.

Nutrients:
Since I am a newb I am going with the 1 part FloraNova grow for veg and FloraNova bloom for flowering. It seems like a lot of hydro growers are putting five or six different nuturient/additives in their solutions. That seemed to complex and anxiety producing for me. I just wanted something simple that would work. I'm sure I will change to different nurtients and complicate things for the next grow when I have learned more about what to use.

I think I'm also going to add some H202 into the res to kill bacteria (?).

Strains:
Super Silver Haze and Stonehedge (freebie!) bought from Seedboutique.

CO2:
While I was trying to sort out my ventillation issues I thought I could try using CO2 since my temps were so high (85+ F). It turns out I corrected this problem by buying the Vortex. But for a while I was considering buying a CAP CO2 regulator/solenoid valve since it was around the same price as the vortex. I already had a tank that I got from a friend so I decided to fill it anyway (only $17.00). Right now it's sitting outside the cab next to my passive vents so when I turn the valve, the gas goes right inside. I am just going to turn it on for 2-3 minutes after I'm done working on my plants. Obviously I will turn the exhaust fan off when this is being done. I know it's not very scientific or precise but I have a tank and I'm going to get my $ worth! I figured it can't really do any harm.

Pruning/Training method:
I don't have that much room for my plants to grow so I have to SCROG.

Well that's about it as far as the setup goes. I'd like to take a quick moment to thank MTF Sandman and MrGreenJeans and everyone else who helped me set everything up. Sorry for the wordy post everyone. Hopefully someone will find it useful. I welcome all criticiscms/advice/questions and even stupid comments.

Here's a picture of my 3 girls before they went into the cab.

looks good slez keep us updated

yeah man looks awesome, i comend you on your chippy (carpentry lol) skills
everything looks sweet, just some advice if can help.
be careful with the co2,levels over 2500ppms will harm you plants...specially so young.
timers are a cheaper alternative.then a cap.

heres a calculation that will help you determine how much isnt too much lol and vice versa..
LxWxH=Am3
Am3x0.0012=total Co2
total Co2x1000
=Litres of Co2
Ltires of Co2 divided by minutes of injection= Flow rate of Co2 per minute

though you will need some sort of regulator to see your flow rate....

oh and the R/W i personally wouldnt use the huge bricks, the smaller cubes inside em would have been sweet. less cost too. IMO h202 is over rated . a healthy system doesnt need it and i personally feel it could mess with the nutes, though i may be wrong....

fans are expenisive eh. though cabs ussually run hot, think youve got that covered!good work

sure looks like youve done you lurking my man.....

should yeild you plenty O greens in the years to come



wish you all the best

Damnit. . . One of my plants looks sick!!!. The stonehedge seems to be exhibiting yellow areas in between the veins (interveinal chlorosis right?) on the lowest leaves. The leaves are also starting to curl up a little bit. I've noticed that the leaves on one of my super silver haze plants seems to be curling up a little too.

Stonhedge with yellowing and a little leaf curl:


SSH with just a little leaf curl:


In case you guys were wondering pH was 6.2 and TDS was 550. When I mixed everything up in my reservoir I pHed it to 5.8 but it seems to be creeping upwards . I'm using the Floranova series nutes and I think it's buffered to a higher pH of around 6.2-6.3. Has anyone else had this problem? Should I just let the nutes go to the pH it wants to? I thought a pH of 5.5-5.8 was optimal for hydro.

I think my TDS is a little high because I have hard water as I added the correct amount of nutes for 300 ppm. What should I do if I have hard water (TDS around 260 out of the tap) and my seedlings are still young? Should I just add half of the recommended amount of nutes for TDS 300?

I'm thinking that my plants have a magnesium deficiency which has possibly been compounded by nute burn? It's just puzzling to me why the stonehedge (which seems to be a hardier strain than SSH) is showing signs of deficiency while my other two SSH plants seem to be ok (despite a little curling of the leaves).

Well anyways, I immediately turned off the pump and flushed with distilled water pHed to 6.2.

What do you all think I'm doing wrong? I'm starting to get real frustrated as this is not rocket science and I seem to be failing. . . .I wish I had some nug right now. . . Any help you could give me would be really appreciated.

Thanks for posting Eulogy!

I forgot to respond to your post because I was so worried about my girls.

Yeah my carpentry skills aren't the best but it's the first time I've really built something and I am very happy with the product!!!

I think I am going to go with the smaller RW cubes next run. . . The large cubes seem to retain to much water, especially in a constant flow system.

I'm going to buy a regulator ASAP. Thanks for the formula!!!

hey man, no probs.

i personally use the PH range 6.0 to 6.5 anything lower and tahts what i get Mg defs.. see how they like the higher range, that 5.5-5.8 is only a suggestion. many growers deem that too acidic and dont go below 5.8.to 6.0 with no problems at all.
get an RO unit man,.,, 100 bucks from ebay best money youll spend on your grow (well thats debatable lol) but a wise investment...will solve your hard water problems aswell as alot of PH ones (PH swing).

yep. lower the ppms. at that age id only run about 200ppm and work up.. just remember its better to UNDERFEED your plants then over..been there done that. everyone likes to know your feeding them enough though thats the problem hehe often we do more harm then good. youve done a flush, so yeah just half the ppms then see how they respond.happens to everyone man, make it a learning experience

is it too late to take out the bigger R/W cube? , (damn water retention).

wish you luck my friend..

edit. oh i wasnt having a shot at your carpentry work, looks great man, we call carpenters here in oz chippys lol just to clarifiy

keep em green

Slez - all finicky criticism aside - you did a fab job on seizing the problem and deciding on a good solution. You can never have enough air exchange, and going with the 8" Vortex was a first class decision!

Things are looking excellent now, you've made your life loads easier - trust the plant, pay her attention, and you will have a nice reward soon.

That is unless she is a biatch - just j/k...

how far away from the plants is your 600 ??

Unfortunately it is a little too late to take out the bigger RW cube. I know the roots are growing into it already becaues I tried to remove it (ha). Oh well, next time only small cubes. . .

So 5.8-6.0 huh? The pH has been around 5.8-6.2 and I'll try and continue to keep it in that range.

Yeah I took the ppm down. I wish I had an RO filter. . . It's getting really annoying buying distilled h20 from the supermarket. I don't really know if I wanna spring for one right now (so many gadgets bought already). You can grow plants fine without it right? Can they handle the hardness when they're older?

Big J: The plants are 2'2" away from the light which is air cooled and has glass on the hood.

So was I correct in saying that this was an Mg deficiency?

Also, anyone know of any good air pumps that could support six buckets. The Optima I bought from the pet store is good enough for 1-2 buckets only.

honestly id just run plain water for now maybe something like some bc thrive alive red or hydroplex if you really need to add anything just yet. The plants will work off their own nutrient reserve out of the seed. Also did you condition the rockwool before you used it? You shouldnt just use it right out of the box!

oh yeah btw nice room. good to see it going. good luck you deserve it!!

Hey Cheetos, thanks for the compliments. I had a bunch of free time and I was getting very angry at all the $ I was waisting on bad weed so I was just like, why the hell not. Plus I had a lot of fun building everything.

Yes i did condition the Rockwool before I used it.

Right now I'm handwatering my babies but when they mature, I want to use my system obviously. However, I think the flow is still a little too muchwhat with the big RW cube in there and all. I'm thinking of buying a timer and setting it for 4-5 times a day. Has anyone had any experience with this?

Hi Slezman

very nice set up description. looks like you put a lot of time and energy in this set up. i could have told you the ventilation thing, but there you go eh? maybe you can use them for an intake?

i just wanted to say, don't use h202 products unless there is a specific need. that shit kill all the bacteria, beneficial as well as harmful ones. but at this stage you have no harmful ones to get rid of, so all it does is kill all the positive bacteria and micro life.

just nutes and ph correction is the way to go for a first hydro grow.

as for the co2, i say go for it. just make sure it gets distributed, you need a small oscillating fan otherwise the heavy co2 will sink to the floor and benefit your buckets instead of the plant lol.

anyway, i look forward to seeing things get going and take shape. glad to get a front row sofa seat.


Edited to add:

at this early stage you don't need nutes, or only a tinny amount. listen to Eulogy, nute level right down and those plants will pick up and take off in no time.

the other thing about the ph. it's quite normal for the ph to rise up again. i think the phosphoric acid evaporates or some thing. but it's no problem. a ph of 6.0 is ideal but 6.2 or 5.8 and anything between is just as good.

for the early stages a lot of hydro growers like to use a rooting stimulator, canna has a nice biological product called rhizotonic. this is a great product to use at the beginning, specially with newly rooted clones.

good growings

From one cab grower to another, you did a most excellent job constructing your cab It will reward you with many phat dank kolas to smoke

70s

Hey i just put some premixed ph'd water into a spraybottle and just wet it so its damp. Soaking wet is too wet the roots wont respond well. Keep it damp and theyll go nuts....hopefully!

Thanks for stopping buy gaiusmarius and 70s pothead.

I don't think I'm going to use H202 at all cause I read in grower's edge magazine that plants grown in the presence of h202 grow smaller than ones grown without it, not to mention that it kills all bacteria.

I have an oscillating fan right where the CO2 comes into the cab. . . hopefully it'll distribute it nice and even

I've been using superthrive as opposed to rhitzotonic. I'm sure results are similar using either.

I'm nuting pretty lightly using floranova at 300 ppm. Is this to much? The plants are about 3-4" high

Does anyone know of any good air pumps that can handle 6 buckets?

Thank you for all the compliments!!

Whatup all,

It's been a while since my last post. Unfortunately I'm in a little bit of a rush so I won't be able to make a nice long post. I'll do it short and sweet style.

Here are my babies, they've been growing for about 30 days now from seed:

Stonehedge:


Super silver haze 1:


Super silver haze 2:


I've be LSTing them for about a week and I think I'm going to have to scrog them cause of height limitations.

I basically just have two questions:

(1) Is now the right time to install my screen? How high should I put it above my plants? Above the media?

(2) If I wanted to take cuttings, should I do that now?


Alright, more elaboration tomorrow but that's it for now.

Peace and one love

Slezman,

im not a pro, but i think i can help ya out

(1) About 2-3 weeks ago would have been ideal for the screen

but you can certainly install one now if you are going to veg them longer and train them through it

(2) You can definitely take cuttings now, some people even take them 20-30 days into flowering,

i like to take all my cuttings before i switch to 12/12, if i can

hope this helps!



i like the look of those hazes!

Looking good Slezman!

I'd take the cuts before you flip them into flowering...I've never done a Scrog though, so really can't help much with the screen timing/fill ratio.

What are the temps and RH% like in there? Looks like you're having some tranpiration issues on the SSH and to a lesser extent a couple of others.