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pH in organic growing

BurnOne

BurnOne

No damn given.
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I hear a lot of people asking or talking about the pH of their organic soil mix or organic nute solution and how they might correct or adjust it. pH in organics is not an issue like it is in synthetic growing.
The best place to settle the pH issues in organics is within the grow medium. A medium rich in humates (humus) is the place to start. Humates work to "buffer" the pH of organic mediums and the nutes you pour (or mix) into it.
Humates come from compost, worm castings and bottled humus. If you use a peat based medum, use dolomite lime to raise the pH of the acidic peat. Dolomite should be used in any soil or soiless medium to provide magnesium and calcium. But since we are talking about pH here, I'll mention dolomite lime's pH correction benefits.
A medium of coir has a pH near neutral (or 7.0). But humates are still neded to allow uptake of organic nutrients that are outside a near neutral pH range.
With an active medium rich in humates you can pour in nutes like Pure Blend Pro, Earth Juice and guano teas with pH anywhere from 4 to 9 without worry. The humus will allow the nutes to be taken up through the roots, even at such an extreme pH reading.
So throw those pH meters away folks and enjoy the ease and safety of organic gardening.
Burn1
 
sannie

sannie

Member
It is the fungi in your soil that settles the ph by your roots.

But why make it difficult for your soil life.
It costs a lot off energie to make the ph right for the roots off the plants,maybe better to youse that energie for transport off nuts and water.

greetz sannie
 
G

Guest

sannie said:
It is the fungi in your soil that settles the ph by your roots.

But why make it difficult for your soil life.
It costs a lot off energie to make the ph right for the roots off the plants,maybe better to youse that energie for transport off nuts and water.

greetz sannie
Click to expand...

What?????
 
G

Guest

I couldn't agree with you more Burn1...since I switched to organics about 11 months ago...I don't even think about checking my ph anymore. About once every three months...I pull out the Kelway meter for fun....and of course every container is exactly the same ph. 6.8 on the nose, whether in straight coco/perlite, or peat/perlite/amendments.

Can't beat the organic farming.

Cheers,
SH
 
LEGI0N

LEGI0N

Active member
I use Fox Farms Ocean Forest and only check the nutes I give them, about 6.0. If I were in Coco I might go a little lower.
 
Don Chocolate

Don Chocolate

Member
I've been using dolomitic lime in my soil at a rate of 2 tbs/gal. Ever since then, pH problems and the use of epsom salts for Mg is a thing of the past. :yes:

Every so often I'll check the pH of the water I'm giving them and sometimes it's below 6.0. I don't notice any ill effects ever, but wouldn't it be better to give them correct pH balanced water?? Not that I'd do it... :biglaugh: Let's face it, organics is lots easier than most think.:smile:
 
G

Guest

Don Chocolate said:
I've been using dolomitic lime in my soil at a rate of 2 tbs/gal. Ever since then, pH problems and the use of epsom salts for Mg is a thing of the past. :yes:

Every so often I'll check the pH of the water I'm giving them and sometimes it's below 6.0. I don't notice any ill effects ever, but wouldn't it be better to give them correct pH balanced water?? Not that I'd do it... :biglaugh: Let's face it, organics is lots easier than most think.:smile:
Click to expand...

You shouldn't have to adjust your water, with or without nutes in organics. Just throw it in, even if it has a very low ph. It will drift back up over the next day or two, and while it is drifting back up....more nutes that would normally not be as available in higher ph levels will become available.

Then the soil will balance back to a normal ph, until you feed again....and the drift will happen all over again. It's a good thing!

Cheers,
SH
 
Verite

Verite

My little pony.. my little pony
Veteran
Drifting ph is a good thing? Use acidic water is ok? What books on botany employ those methods?
 
G

guest3854

Thank you Verite . Wondering where they got theyre info .
Anyway , people , we are growing cannabis , indoors , (organically in this section anyway). We don't have all tha other natural elments inside so we play mother earth and must harness what we know and provide our plants with care so they grow fast and healthy . Now , by providing your plants with tha correct frequency of ph , they aren't gonna have to wait for other factors to (lime or whatever) adjust it . Give your plants what they can assimilate and I bet you will have a faster , stronger harvest . By feeding em an off ph'ed nute , obviously tha plants are gonna have to "work" harder to convert it to a usable frequency . Why would you wanna make your plants work harder , let em focus on bud production , not having 'em work harder to work to eat .
 
PazVerdeRadical

PazVerdeRadical

all praises are due to the Most High
Veteran
BurnOne said:
So throw those pH meters away folks and enjoy the ease and safety of organic gardening.
Burn1
Click to expand...

indeed mr. burnone, good post. thanks!
recently i was exchanging a few words with african growers and south american growers about traditional cannabis cultivation, all is organics and outdoors and no one seems to care about pH; it was a relief to have found through my own experience in organic soil that the whole culture of pH perfectness to be more of a fetiche than anything else...

steel savage, i would like to see if there are any real numbers regarding how much more yield and quality of yield will a plant in organic soil grown outdoors that has been grown with a careful look after the pH does compared to a traditionally grown plant. i think a good organic soil is the universal medium for cannabis, as the plant will naturally adjust to the slight pH variations that there may be; this thought comes from considering some spanish breeders who keep their pH at odd levels like 7.2 because it does better for specific medicinal strains according to them... this tells me the plant is able to adjust, rather than thinking it is us who adjust the soil for the plants.

also, another important issue about this topic is considering the conditions under which the plants and soil used to determine the data backing up pH theory were. if they were hydroponics, well, you know it would make sense, but scientifically, we cannot transport this data to any growing medium.

peace.
 
Suby

Suby

**AWD** Aficianado
Veteran
Hey Paz and B1, excellent information and posts.

This is why organic farmers have more vigor and stability in their growth, a soil rich in bioactivity and humates.
Various composts and animal manures have ph way high or low but low and behold if you compost them the ph stabilizes more towards neutral and further more are applied to the fields green at years end to compost over the winter to enrich the soil for next years crop.
I've never met an organic farmer with a ph meter in his pocket and I doubt Hannah probes are widely available in some parts of Africa lol ;).
Notice the word compost, humates are the result of decomposition of organic material and as B1 so wisely pointed out, they are the key and NOt fungi as someone mentioned, fungi are part of the microherd and are a part of the composting process however.
Humic acids promote direct uptake, it has been lkong believed that plant roots can only take in elements in ionic form, N-, K+, etc. It has been shown that large particles can be envoloped by humic acids and then absorbed through the cellular membrane by endocytosis.

obviously tha plants are gonna have to "work" harder to convert it to a usable frequency . Why would you wanna make your plants work harder , let em focus on bud production , not having 'em work harder to work to eat
Click to expand...

Plants do not have to work to uptake anything, if anything being able to actively transport elements regardless of ph assures that all element are more available regardless of ph.
Why do you think the entire PureBlend line rest on the presence of humic acids in the LiquidKarma component of ALL their ferts, and coincidentaly their ferts once mixed are usually ph buffered.

And btw all the info I share on this board is the result of web research and discussion with educated growers and teachers oh and mentors like LC, B1, 3LB, ....

Peace
Sub's
 
sproutco

sproutco

Active member
Veteran
BurnOne said:
I hear a lot of people asking or talking about the pH of their organic soil mix or organic nute solution and how they might correct or adjust it. pH in organics is not an issue like it is in synthetic growing.
The best place to settle the pH issues in organics is within the grow medium. A medium rich in humates (humus) is the place to start. Humates work to "buffer" the pH of organic mediums and the nutes you pour (or mix) into it.
Humates come from compost, worm castings and bottled humus. If you use a peat based medum, use dolomite lime to raise the pH of the acidic peat. Dolomite should be used in any soil or soiless medium to provide magnesium and calcium. But since we are talking about pH here, I'll mention dolomite lime's pH correction benefits.
A medium of coir has a pH near neutral (or 7.0). But humates are still neded to allow uptake of organic nutrients that are outside a near neutral pH range.
With an active medium rich in humates you can pour in nutes like Pure Blend Pro, Earth Juice and guano teas with pH anywhere from 4 to 9 without worry. The humus will allow the nutes to be taken up through the roots, even at such an extreme pH reading.
So throw those pH meters away folks and enjoy the ease and safety of organic gardening.
Burn1
Click to expand...

Ph would be just as important to the organic grower as anybody else. Ph 4 to 9? Below 5, you might encounter manganese toxicity. Above 7, calcium forms a complex with phosphorus to form calcium phosphate and plants cannot absorb it. Humates mainly work to chelate especially micronutrients and allow them to be absorbed at a higher ph but at a ph above maybe 7 this stops working and the micronutrients oxidize or fall out of solution. As a reference, the chelate edta (which is a pretty good one) that is commonly used in fertilizers stops working at a ph of 6.5 or higher. Correct me if I am wrong.
 
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Suby

Suby

**AWD** Aficianado
Veteran
All the informtion you just posted refers the behaviour of elements in bottled and ionic ferts in a hydro or non organic soil medium conditions.
Being that ph is a logarithmic scale no one would feed their plants with a ph 3 if they knew what quantity of aciditry that really represented but how the hell are poeple getting guanos and teas ph 3 or 8 to begin with? All mine fall between 5.5 and 7.5 once bubbled and mixed properly.
Humates are not bound so they do work over 7 and they do move macros and micros, when you metion solution I am assuming your refering to hydro wich will never have any reliable parallels with organic soil, I measured ph with my hydro.

The point is not to say feed them battery acid and they will be fine, it's to say that it is less of a concern to bump a ph 5.5 solution up to the standard 6.2-6.8 range that is essential with inorganic ferts.
 
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sproutco

sproutco

Active member
Veteran
Plants probably will tolerate a broad range of ph's between maybe 5 to 7. Above or below this will probably not be good with any type of growing. Pick your best plant and do a soil test for ph to find what works best for you.
 
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Devilock

Devilock

Member
Heres a little something from Jorge Cervantes on the subject.

"Organic nutrients have a complex structure and measuring content is difficult. Organics are difficult to keep stable too."

I personally never used a ph or any other meter with organics. Visual inspection seems to work just fine. Also ph meters only measure NPK and none of the micronutes. A ppm or ec meter would probly work better for organic mesurements. Peace and *bong* :friends:
 
Verite

Verite

My little pony.. my little pony
Veteran
Imo theres no comparison of outdoor ph to indoor ph, the only worries I ever had about outdoor location was to pick a spot that didnt have acidic soil by pine trees because I knew that outdoor ph works itself out because of sheer volume.

Indoors where your voulme of medium runs 2-5 gallons, ph is going to be an issue if you continually feed it acidic levels like 4.0 and expect that humics are going to fix that long term.

And does anyone really need to do an experiment when science has already proven that plants do best when their medium and food are at specific ph levels?
 
BurnOne

BurnOne

No damn given.
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I have just one question for the nay sayers in this thread...

Have you ever tried what I'm saying here or are you relying on your own or someone elses theory?

...this is not ment to be a debate. I'm just passing on some tried and proven facts. I didn't invent this stuff.

Burn1
 
Don Chocolate

Don Chocolate

Member
Burnone's right.:cool: I didn't think it was as easy as everyone said... before I tried it. If you add lime to your soil/soilless mix, you'll never grow without it again. :D
 
sproutco

sproutco

Active member
Veteran
I still say ph control is important. When you use organics like the addition of bat poop, etc... you will still have a nutrient solution within the soil. Nutrients mixed in with the water. It is water chemistry (or just chemistry) on what takes place like micronutrients becoming more or less available. Valences change positive or negative with the molecules and individual elements form compounds good or bad. This all depends on ph. This nutrient water reacts identically to what would happen in hydroponics or soilless growing with the only difference being your source of nutrients. (I could talk about plants all day everyday...isn't this fun) :wave:
 
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