Foliar Nutrition - Calcium and Boron

dizzlekush · Mar 22, 2012

dizzlekush · Mar 23, 2012

Effects of γ-ray treatment on Cannabis sativa pollen viability
Michela Zottini, Giuseppe Mandolino and Paolo Ranalli

(excerpt from results)
A basal medium is not sufficient to induce germination of pollen grains (medium A), but the presence of boron and calcium in the germination medium (Table 2) seems to be crucial. This result confirms a general observation reported in other species. (Cheng and Freeling, 1976; Voyaitzi, 1995). The maximum germination level observed in our experiments for Cannabis pollen, is between 77% and 88%. This level of germination has to be considered quite high and comparable with the germination level of alfalfa (90%), spruce (87%) and pine (82%). It is definitely a good germination rate compared with other species...

Something worth noting IMO. Unfortunately i do not have access to Table 2.

dizzlekush · Mar 24, 2012

YosemiteSam · Mar 26, 2012

No contribution to the literature but I use a foliar of of Ca, B and Zn right after flip. It is my believe that if you can maximize brix at this point the plant will then set more buds. No proof of that but something similar definitely happens with corn...so I thought why not give it a shot.

dizzlekush · Mar 26, 2012

YosemiteSam said:
No contribution to the literature but I use a foliar of of Ca, B and Zn right after flip. It is my believe that if you can maximize brix at this point the plant will then set more buds. No proof of that but something similar definitely happens with corn...so I thought why not give it a shot.

Sam care to share the contents/application rates for your foliar spray? IIRC you use Calcium and Zinc Metalosate correct? what do you use to provide B?

Aside from B and Ca, zinc (zinc sulphate to be more specific) is by far the most tested nutrient for foliar applications. However this is due to the fact that Zn is the most common nutrient that is deficient in soils, while Ca and B testing is mainly due to the absorption rates of Ca and B through the roots being slower than all other nutrients. Since Zinc is absorbed at fairly decent rates in the rhizosphere and Zinc sulfate should not be mixed with Ca at the concentration i will be providing in the foliar spray, i shall not be including it to my foliar sprays.

I like your use of a brix meter to assess the vitality of the plant, something i don't see often in cannabis cultivation or scientific lit. Have you ever noticed applications (foliage or rhizosphere) of any sugars (molasses, sweetening products, glucose) having an effect on Brix?

YosemiteSam · Mar 26, 2012

It is Albion's Metalosate B also. They call it an amino complex (I assume glycine)...not a true chelate cause it is only a +1 cation. it is a 5% concentration

I use half of what Albion recommended to me. 1 ounce per gallon of Ca and 1/4 ounce of the other 2.

You are correct on Zn not really needing to be in the foliar. However, I have been reading Albrecht based stuff that recommends Zn be 1/10 of P...I am not getting that with my formula and have been a little reluctant to try.

Here is my formula at the moment including micros

View attachment 158953

edit...the Ca adjustment is 1 gram of Metalosate organic Ca powder. I will be looking at replacing this with something to amend the soil. And slowly making the switch from coco to peat in the process.

edit II...forgot. I have not checked brix after sugar applications. The only time I use sugar is when I begin the flush (sucant/citric combo). At that point brix is dropping as chlorophyll production drops. If you had an experiment in mind I might could carry it out on a plant.

dizzlekush · Mar 26, 2012

YosemiteSam said:
It is Albion's Metalosate B also. They call it an amino complex (I assume glycine)...not a true chelate cause it is only a +1 cation.

I must be missing something, AFAIK all B sources when mixed with water hydrolyze to become boric acid, which is the only form of B plants can absorb and is non-ionic. Admittedly i know little about complex/chelation science. Im not saying your product doesn't work, for instance i know all silicates convert to Monosilicic acid (a.k.a. orthosilicic acid) which is largely nonionic at normal pH but does have improved absorption rates when co-applied with humic/fulvic acid. So i would assume that the fact that boric acid is non-ionized doesn't mean that its absorption rates couldn't be improved. :dunno:

maybe i should bring it up with the people at Albions...

The attachment you provided seems to be invalid.

Im mainly interested in testing glucose, fructose, Advanced Nutrients Carboload (Sounds kinda silly but its pure sugars that either have metabolic activity in plants or have significance in plant structure and is actually cheaper than anywhere i can source such sugars) and basic high brix horticultural molasses, alone and in combination, applied to the foliage of the plants. Most studies where i seen increased growth with exogenous carbohydrates have success with foliar applications in comparison to rhizosphere applications. All i would want quantified is changes is Brix levels and any noticeable differences in growth (rhizosphere included). 1L of Carboload is fairly cheap (~$15) and contains:

10% Inert ingredients (id guess water since its a liquid)
15% Deoxyribose
15% Lyxose
20% Ribose
20% Xylulose
20% Xylose

YosemiteSam · Mar 26, 2012

I honestly don't know about the B. I doubt though you will get Albion to say it does not work. I believe in their articles section they show leaf analysis before and after...but who really knows, could just be marketing that I fell for...would not be the first time.

The attachment works when I click on it. Not sure how else to attach it.

YosemiteSam · Mar 26, 2012

I will try again...it came up invalid for me after it worked a couple of times...we will see.

I could probably get some carboload next time I go to the hydro store. I have plants I just flipped. Maybe measure brix then spray then measure again the next day at the same time. I could also wait an hour or two but I tend to get in and out of that spot.

edit...where it says Si...that is actually SiO2

RespectGreen · Mar 26, 2012

Them 2 are what makes up spray N grow I do believe? Just using it for the first time now so interesting to learn a bit of it.

joe fresh · Mar 26, 2012

YosemiteSam said:
View attachment 158983

I will try again...it came up invalid for me after it worked a couple of times...we will see.

I could probably get some carboload next time I go to the hydro store. I have plants I just flipped. Maybe measure brix then spray then measure again the next day at the same time. I could also wait an hour or two but I tend to get in and out of that spot.

edit...where it says Si...that is actually SiO2

I WAS ABOUT TO SAY, WITH A SALT INDEX OF 100 THAT WOULD BE PRETTY HIGH

YosemiteSam · Mar 26, 2012

yep...not sure the plants would survive that.

plus I worry about trying to get all of that Ca through the roots. Albrecht suggests a base saturation of 65:15 % Ca:Mg. Which technically would be 4:1.

but there comes a point when you drive the EC up with Ca to the point you actually slow transpiration and defeat the purpose of the extra Ca. I tried a 4:1 ratio with 200 ppm Ca and saw that happen...I collect all water from the ac and dehuey and got to see transpiration slow down.

Not exactly sure but I might be better off with a 2:1 ratio in the soil and foliar weekly. Or loading the soil with Ca and getting some microbes going. One of those things I am going to tinker around with.

YosemiteSam · Apr 11, 2012

So I finally sprayed some carboload on a single plant.

11 brix before and then spray...24 hrs or so later and the same brix.

But, I am not sure that really proves much of anything. At 11 the plant is making plenty of its own sugar. I am thinking if I had a plant with a low brix then maybe it makes a difference...who knows.

Basically I have a sample size of one...a statistically insignificant test at best.

I will say my focus is going to remain on avoiding sugars and getting the plant brix up by other means...I just intuit that as being healthier in the long run. At the same time I have not earned the right to knock another's use of sugar.

dramamine · Jun 30, 2012

A quick question for Yosemite Sam, or anyone else who might know: have you guys tried spraying with calcium chloride? I know that it is what makes up Calcium25, and I know that's a good product to boost Ca. Anyone tried making their own? Calcium chloride is about $10/lb, so much cheaper than Calcium25.

YosemiteSam · Jun 30, 2012

I am stepping beyond my depth here so do not take this as absolute fact. The problem with foliar Ca is twofold...one is getting the Ca past the leaf material and the second is getting it to be mobile once you get it into the plant. Ca25 is CaCl but it also has tria added to allow it to do those two things...Albion uses an amino chelate to do the same thing.

The problem with fertigating with CaCl is the high salt index...that is a little bit raises the EC quite a bit which slows transpiration and limits how easily Ca moves around the plant.

Like I say I do not those things for fact...I may just be the victim of advertising

dramamine · Jun 30, 2012

Nah, I think you may be right. A wetting agent should get it into the leaves, but I don't know about the mobility issue. From reading a few tales of folks burning their tomato plants with it, it sounds like the salt levels are high, as you say. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.

SeaMaiden · Jul 1, 2012

YosemiteSam said:
I am stepping beyond my depth here so do not take this as absolute fact. The problem with foliar Ca is twofold...one is getting the Ca past the leaf material and the second is getting it to be mobile once you get it into the plant. Ca25 is CaCl but it also has tria added to allow it to do those two things...Albion uses an amino chelate to do the same thing.

The problem with fertigating with CaCl is the high salt index...that is a little bit raises the EC quite a bit which slows transpiration and limits how easily Ca moves around the plant.

Like I say I do not those things for fact...I may just be the victim of advertising

While I can't speak to the chemistry or scientific principles in action, I do read quite a lot about Ca and Calcium-25 being used specifically, and ONLY, as a foliar application in ranching and farming scenarios. Often it's used in deficient pastures.

I personally have used Ca foliars often and find it works well to arrest any issues, as well as a good prevention method in a pinch, such as when I'm losing crop to end rot.

ClackamasCootz · Jul 1, 2012

dramamine said:
A quick question for Yosemite Sam, or anyone else who might know: have you guys tried spraying with calcium chloride?

I've used this compound sourced from a local Japanese market on a couple of occasions.

Definitely cheap enough........

exploziv · Jul 1, 2012

I like to feed the plants with N, Ca and micronutrients by using foliar sprays in veg. It's a fast and effective way to keep them happy and growing fast. I sometimes use it on vegetables, too. :2cents:

dizzlekush · Jul 6, 2012

Just to clarify the answer for dramamines Q.

The level of absorption that leaves have for salts is based on the specific salts 'point on deliquescence' (POD), which is the salts ability to extract the moisture out of the air (humidity) to allow it to be absorbed by the leaves, since leaves cannot absorb dry salts, only salts dissolved into solution. the POD of a salt is a given number that is the amount of humidity that is necessary for the salt to turn to liquid. So the lower the POD, the less humidity is needed, the better the salt absorbs through the leaf.

Calcium Chloride has a very low POD, 32 IIRC, the lowest of all the calcium salts. other good options are Calcium Nitrate (POD of 53) and possibly Calcium Hydroxide (unsure of POD) as several studies have shown it to be as effective or even more effective than Calcium chloride or Calcium nitrate, which are the most popular Ca salts for foliar application, due to their low PODs. Don't buy Xtreme Gardenings "CalCarb". Its useless, overpriced Calcium Carbonate that is very poorly absorbed into the leaves and proves no CO2 boost that the company claims.

Sam is absolutely right about the lack of trans-location once the Ca gets absorbed through the tissue. The Ca only gets used where it is absorbed but it allows for the plant to send less Ca that is absorbed from the roots to the foliar enriched tissue. This is very beneficial since plants absorb both Ca and B in a less efficient manner than all other ions.

HTH,
-dizzle

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Foliar Nutrition - Calcium and Boron

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