Am I going in the right direction? or no (BREEDING)

I've been reading the book Marijuana Botany. I'm interested in learning ways to make some crosses and keep consistent viable seedstock so I can have these strains for life. I'm pretty new to learning Breeding so anything that I write down that is wrong correct me. Here is my understanding so far.

1.Cross two strains to make a hybrid (ex. Blueberry x Cali Orange)
a. this will result in F1 seeds

2.Grow out F1 seeds
a. Choose parents
b. Keep clone of choosen female and pollen from choosen male

3.Pollinate a portion of a female clone with choosen pollen
a. This will result in F2 seeds

4.Grow out F2 seeds
a. Choose desired male for pollen

5.Pollinate a clone from the original mother or F1 generation
a. This will result in the Bx1 seeds (first generation backcross)


Is this right so far? or am I completely wrong?

It looks right to me, if you want a book on strictly breeding then you should check out Greg Green's Cannabis Breeders Bible, you can get it at Borders.

- http://www.cannabisbook.com/

Sure your terminology seems fine. The question will be is that plan of attack going to get you closer to your goal. Only you will know that as you select each generation.

The only suggestions I would make would be using multiple males and females instead of just one of each and grow out as many seeds as you comfortably can. For male selection be careful. Only eliminate those that show potentially dangerous characteristics for example, reduced vigor or genetic hermaphrodism. Selecting flower related and quantitative characters in males may be a useless excercise.

Have fun.

suzy,i wish i could take your cannabis related knowledge and put it in a book,put it on my bookshelf and use THAT as my reference guide.

WeedMafia

p.s. you SURE you're not one of the 3lb's?...heh

Im a bit confused. If you want to keep consistant characteristics, i.e. stabilise a cross, this is the approach:

1) Cross P1 female with P2 male. Results in F1.

2) Cross F1 male (that shows closest resemblance to P1 pheno) with P1. Resulting seeds now theoretically contain 75% of P1's genotype. Call this generation F2, although its not technically an F2.

Now you can repeat this process in what is known as cubing to further stabilise desireable traits. i.e. cross F2 male with P1, creating F3. Then cross F3 with P1, and the resulting line is theoretically stabilised by containing more than 98% of P1's genotype. Naturally however, inbreeding like this will also cause recessive problems to come to light, and the gene pool will be shallow, so there are other techniques used during this process to help counteract these issues.

i´m sorry thc but you dont stabilze a strain if you bring it from f1 to the f2 generation.
F2 inherit a bigger diversity when more f1 males were used, heres the point were you start to select out the crap and here you have to know what you want the offspring to be ! think about .....
then the lesson will be continued
Fj

TheHappyChemica said:

Im a bit confused. If you want to keep consistant characteristics, i.e. stabilise a cross, this is the approach:

1) Cross P1 female with P2 male. Results in F1.

2) Cross F1 male (that shows closest resemblance to P1 pheno) with P1. Resulting seeds now theoretically contain 75% of P1's genotype. Call this generation F2, although its not technically an F2.

Now you can repeat this process in what is known as cubing to further stabilise desireable traits. i.e. cross F2 male with P1, creating F3. Then cross F3 with P1, and the resulting line is theoretically stabilised by containing more than 98% of P1's genotype. Naturally however, inbreeding like this will also cause recessive problems to come to light, and the gene pool will be shallow, so there are other techniques used during this process to help counteract these issues.

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2) would be a Bx-I , if you bx the f1 to p1 back, maybe suzy can explore for us the world of cubing
thx Fj

WM said:

p.s. you SURE you're not one of the 3lb's?...heh

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No but I wish I had their practical experience.

suzycremecheese said:

No but I wish I had their practical experience.

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you're still one of my heroines....

WeedMafia

suzy's right...use as many of the f1 generation parents as possible because it is hard to figure out what each of them will ulitmately contribute, better to start reducing the amount of parents in f2 and f3 generations, and even then better to use many parents..you can always eliminate undesirable traits in future generations but you cannot get desirable traits back that have been accidently removed except by going back to the previous generations and that = more work

fjällhöga said:

2) would be a Bx-I , if you bx the f1 to p1 back, maybe suzy can explore for us the world of cubing
thx Fj

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Sorry yeah thats what i meant, i only called it F2 because I forgot the term. But yeah cubing is cool

When crossing two strains does it matter which is male and which one is female? Later this year I plan on buying Sagarmathas BB and crossing it to Seedsman Original Haze, I just dont know which of the two strains should be male etc? Maybe put a male and female of each strain in there and have more diversity if that would be a good thing even? Anyone know which is the better book on breeding, DJ Shorts or Greg Greens? Thanks in advance to anyone that can help me on my future strain development project!! If anyone cares to know, my goal for that cross is to develop an extremely good strain to treat the following, depression, anxiety, boredom, lack of motivation, and anything else that goes hand in hand with any of those problems, all the while keeping the munchies to an absolute minimum.

if we follow Djs texts the female part is for the intesity of the flavor and the male side is for the direction the flavor goes.
ex: ssH (fem) x Blueberry (male) |Its an easy ex coz both parent have distinctive flavors.
the ssH part of the cross inherits the strength of the flavor and BB part adds the berry,fruity tang to the offspring.
Fj

So should I use a male Haze and a female Bubbleberry or the other way around?

Assuming thats the way I should go would I want to then grow those seeds out and select a male Haze X Bubbleberry to cross back to a female Haze to end up with a Haze X Bubbleberry X Haze?

other way

other way

The other way around......

FeelingHazy said:

So should I use a male Haze and a female Bubbleberry or the other way around?

Assuming thats the way I should go would I want to then grow those seeds out and select a male Haze X Bubbleberry to cross back to a female Haze to end up with a Haze X Bubbleberry X Haze?

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As CC said already, turn the parents vice versa and end up with a Bubbleberry/Haze x Bubbleberry.This cross will be easier to grow indoor.

Ex:grow out BB and Haze.You want BB to be the fem. and a Haze father.
Clone them and label them, > flower them out and keep the fastest, most vigorous and easy maintainable males (more males inherit a bigger diversity in genes) Label the backup clones that you know who is who .
Select through all available BB fems and decide which one is the keeper , after its all done and you have your parents choosen, its time to clone both male and fem keepers.I like to set up an extra room with HID and InlineFan + HepaFilter [homemade] to flower out my males.After 6-8 weeks of 12/12 the most males start to die (strain depending of course).At this point those studs should have produced an abundance amount of pollen.Collect it,let it dry out so no mold can settle in and mix it up in a small glass vial.From now on the pollen can be used on every fem you want I like it most to pollinate fems in the 3-5 week of their flowering period so the mass of the beans have good chances to ripe in the plants normal harvest window or at least 10-14 days later.Be carefull the plant is very weak when producing seeds.

Lol to get back ... now you have the pollen stored in the frigde and 3 clones of bb ready to get pollinated.Take them out of the room and carefully brush with a small pencil over the females stigmas.to ensure a bigger pollination you can come back to this step 2 days after the initial pollination.
After the seeds are big,brown, bracts split open and the beans are rattling in the pot ,its time to harvest the plants.After dry collect carefully the beans and mix them, just to get sure Dry them ,too as the nutrient block inside holds alot of moisture for its size.Put them in the frigde to increase germ rate and plant 15 beans and grow them out.You want 3 males and one keeper female to see the improvement in your breeds.
For the males: Select for 1 BB pheno with minimal Haze influence ,one mixed pheno and one Haze Pheno with minimal bb influence.Flower out the three males clones and collect pollen as mentioned above.
Pollinate your pure BB keeper fem with the mixed pollen of the BB/Haze cross.
Resulting offspring is a BB/Haze/BB with some differences in the Phenotypes but should be more stable as the initial cross.
Now you have 4 strains : BB , BB/Haze, BB/H/BB and Haze!!
yours Fj

if we follow Djs texts the female part is for the intesity of the flavor and the male side is for the direction the flavor goes.
ex: ssH (fem) x Blueberry (male) |Its an easy ex coz both parent have distinctive flavors.
the ssH part of the cross inherits the strength of the flavor and BB part adds the berry,fruity tang to the offspring.

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Wow, I know DJs a great breeder but I would love to see the research that proved such a complex factoid. Odds are, very few, if any of the genes involved in flavor or flavor intensity are sex linked. Personally I find it hard to believe and even harder to prove.

Do a reciprocal cross. Try it both ways and see which you like better.

And if your all looking for a goodbook try breeding field crops by Poehlman and Sleper. Theres plenty of solid factual info in there that can be applied to cannabis.

Bad ass, thanks alot FJ!

One more thing FJ, could you explain why a BB x Haze x BB would be easier to manage indoors as opposed to a Haze x BB x Haze? What would it be considered as well, 1st generation backcross?

interesting