grafting

Drewdogg420 · Apr 4, 2011

I started grafting a couple of my plants and was wondering if they are supposed to look like one side is over powerring the other? what I mean is one side is double the size of the other; both sides are alive and strong! I grafted them by rooting tham together and creating one root for both sides...I was also wondering if anyone knows howmany times you have to do this to create a new plant?

ithruxix · Apr 4, 2011

essentially once you have acheived a proper graft, you have sucessfully created a new strain.

mind sharing what you grafted, approximately how long it took for the graft to be accepted by the main plant, what made you choose your specimens etc?

I can say that if you graft a sativa onto an indica, the sativa side should grow quicker. Not 100%, but basic cannabis cultivating would leave one to think that.

Also, are you doing this to save space with mothers, or to experiment in actually flowering the finished grafts? Subscribing to this thread, I started one a few years ago which never really took off.

igrowone · Apr 5, 2011

ithruxix said:
essentially once you have acheived a proper graft, you have sucessfully created a new strain.

this is interesting, guessing this would be a clone only strain?
i wouldn't think there would be genetic changes in either of grafts, but i'm not that educated about MJ grafting

pearlemae · Apr 5, 2011

DDogg how bout some info and pics of what you are doing. I think there may be more than just me in your technique, strains, results etc. :plant grow:

WelderDan · Apr 5, 2011

ithruxix said:
essentially once you have acheived a proper graft, you have sucessfully created a new strain.

mind sharing what you grafted, approximately how long it took for the graft to be accepted by the main plant, what made you choose your specimens etc?

I can say that if you graft a sativa onto an indica, the sativa side should grow quicker. Not 100%, but basic cannabis cultivating would leave one to think that.

Also, are you doing this to save space with mothers, or to experiment in actually flowering the finished grafts? Subscribing to this thread, I started one a few years ago which never really took off.

This is not correct. Grafting is used in the fruit industry and wine industry extensively and it does not create a new strain. It will allow more than one variety to share the same rootstock. For example, you can graft a lemon, a lime and an orange onto a grapefruit rootstock, and you will get lemons, limes and oranges. Almost all citrus is grafted, as the seeds does not produce citrus of the same quality. A known good plant is grafted onto fresh rootstock to produce consistent results. Some grapefruit "mother" plants have been used to graft to fresh rootstock for over 50 years. Ruby Red grapefruit is a perfect example.

In wine grapes, a variety that is susceptible to root nematodes can be grafted to rootstock that is not to retain the qualities of the grafted grape while giving it resistance to nematodes.

The US saved France's ass when one of their varieties was attacked by root nematodes and we sent them rootstock resistant to the nematode. The grapes retained their desirable qualities. It did not change them.

Hops are related to cannabis and can be successfully grafted onto a cannabis plant. The hop vine will continue to grow as a vine and will have no THC. This has been proven by scientific observation.

The most that can be accomplished here is to have two different strains sharing the same rootstock. It does not create a new strain.

TB Gardens · Apr 5, 2011

very cool! i always stumble upon articles/videos, whatever, about grafting and then forget about it when im thinking of new stuff to try. im subscribed to this one if you are planning on keeping it updated. very interesting facts from the above poster as well, my buddy who loves brewing will be pretty happy to find out he can graft some hops into his cab, lol!

Drewdogg420 · Apr 5, 2011

I am grafting with clones! They rooted and one seems to be over powering the other making it hard for the other to survive and both are growing very slow! I am experimenting more than anything with them. I have read a few things on grafting and thought I would give it a shot! Any information will be greatly appretiated!!!

WelderDan · Apr 5, 2011

A true graft would be to take a cutting from plant "A", and cut a branch off of plant "B" and join them using a V shaped notch on "B" and a point on "A" and bind with nursery tape, or a diagonal slice on both plants. Very common in the fruit, grape and nut industry

BBB< <AAA - quickie example
or
BBB/ /AAA - quickie example

That's how it's done in a nursery

Hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like you simply have two plants growing tightly together. They will fuse at the base, which will more or less give you a kind of graft. If one does not overtake and kill the other.

TB Gardens · Apr 5, 2011

^^^ yeah.. i used to do this, but didnt call it grafting. didnt call it anything but having a bunch of seeds in one pot! the small one will never grow as big as the bigger one will. big one might not kill it, but itll keep it small

RockyMountainHi · Apr 5, 2011

WelderDan said:
The most that can be accomplished here is to have two different strains sharing the same rootstock.

Actually, there is not limit of two, it would be possible to have 2, 3, 4 or more strains on one set of roots.

The big benifit is medical MMj states with plant count limits.

And the bad side is, if that mom gets sick, and dies - that could be very painful.

Laugan Gaucher · Apr 5, 2011

with grafting you can make new plant you can call it "chimere"....it's reality !

WelderDan · Apr 5, 2011

RockyMountainHi said:
Actually, there is not limit of two, it would be possible to have 2, 3, 4 or more strains on one set of roots.

The big benifit is medical MMj states with plant count limits.

And the bad side is, if that mom gets sick, and dies - that could be very painful.

I was referring to the fact he said he used two clones. If you re-read my post, you will see I covered having multiple varieties share one rootstock in the citrus example.

ithruxix · Apr 5, 2011

WelderDan said:
This is not correct. Grafting is used in the fruit industry and wine industry extensively and it does not create a new strain. It will allow more than one variety to share the same rootstock. For example, you can graft a lemon, a lime and an orange onto a grapefruit rootstock, and you will get lemons, limes and oranges. Almost all citrus is grafted, as the seeds does not produce citrus of the same quality. A known good plant is grafted onto fresh rootstock to produce consistent results. Some grapefruit "mother" plants have been used to graft to fresh rootstock for over 50 years. Ruby Red grapefruit is a perfect example.

In wine grapes, a variety that is susceptible to root nematodes can be grafted to rootstock that is not to retain the qualities of the grafted grape while giving it resistance to nematodes.

The US saved France's ass when one of their varieties was attacked by root nematodes and we sent them rootstock resistant to the nematode. The grapes retained their desirable qualities. It did not change them.

Hops are related to cannabis and can be successfully grafted onto a cannabis plant. The hop vine will continue to grow as a vine and will have no THC. This has been proven by scientific observation.

The most that can be accomplished here is to have two different strains sharing the same rootstock. It does not create a new strain.

I was under the impression that once a graft was succesful in attatchment, it would take on slight nuances from the donor rootstock. That is simply what I have read, not trying to say that I have any experience in this field.

If you are indeed correct I apologize tremendously for providing the op with incorrect information.

WelderDan · Apr 5, 2011

ithruxix said:
I was under the impression that once a graft was succesful in attatchment, it would take on slight nuances from the donor rootstock. That is simply what I have read, not trying to say that I have any experience in this field.

If you are indeed correct I apologize tremendously for providing the op with incorrect information.

The advantages of grafting is that it allows the use of a hardier rootstock while retaining the desirable qualities of the grafted stock.

It also allows for faster propagation, and even allows for changing the varieties in say, an orchard without replanting.

Grafting is usually done on plants within the same species. There is a caveat though, and this caveat is probably where you got the impression that the rootstock can influence the graft.

If you graft two different species, you can get what is called a Graft Hybrid, or Graft-Chimaera that can show traits of both parents. It is not a true hybrid. They are not stable and easily revert back to one of the parents.

contra · Apr 5, 2011

I wonder if being grafted for an extremely long time would open the possibility of some genetic transfer. I think if someone were to create graft plants such that they would provide a perpetual harvest throughout the outdoor season, there may be a market for this. Imagine, scions could be selected with known flowering times so that a different harvest matures at week or 2 week intervals. I don't know what geometric pattern they would have to be ordered in but someone could figure this out. Early on the bottom or top?

Drewdogg420 · Apr 6, 2011

Well they did root together and it seems on both that one is overpowering the other and slowely killing it! The stalks stand up like their sturdy, but every leaf on them is dying on one set of grafting the other grafting that I am doing one plant has absolutely no leaves. I was wondering if this is normal? I have read that you can create a new breed as long as you graft from both sides of the plant and re-graft. Then you keep doing it with each with each grafted clone until you have one plant! I plan on posting more pics in a few days after there is a noticable difference!

h.h. · Apr 7, 2011

What WD said...No new species
I would have a question about intersex grafting. Using male roots to support a weaker female.

mithra · Apr 7, 2011

very interesting thread, non the less, would love to see a tutorial on true grafting, are you up for it Welderdan? It sounds like you are knowledgeable on the subject . And what a perfect way to keep a huge number of mothers in a small area!!

WelderDan · Apr 7, 2011

mithra said:
very interesting thread, non the less, would love to see a tutorial on true grafting, are you up for it Welderdan? It sounds like you are knowledgeable on the subject . And what a perfect way to keep a huge number of mothers in a small area!!

Grafting is an interesting subject and certainly has it's place in the fruit and citrus industry.

I'm not that knowledgeable, I only know the basics from a couple of years of Agriculture in high school and some curiosity on my part.

I personally don't see an advantage to grafting cannabis. Having multiple strains growing from one main stem would be novel, but it would be a nightmare trying to maintain a mother plant having multiple strains. But then again, I have my own agenda and my goals are less ambitious. It's just my opinion. If people want to take that ball and run with it, rock on.

That said, it's probably easier (and less typing) for me to defer to a few links which explain the process and offer some illustrations. It's one thing to explain something, but a visual conveys so much more.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/dg0532.html

http://extension.missouri.edu/publications/DisplayPub.aspx?P=G6971

http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/garden/mg/propagation/grafting.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafting

The third link also has some information on home tissue culture, though it's not in depth, it does give you a basic recipe for preparing the medium and the process.

TLoft13 · Dec 3, 2011

igrowone said:
this is interesting, guessing this would be a clone only strain?
i wouldn't think there would be genetic changes in either of grafts, but i'm not that educated about MJ grafting

There's no genetic change, the two parts are influencing each other hormonally. You couldn't give this new characteristics to new clones ect.

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