Uh-oh! Lockout? Overfert? Ph Issues? HALP!

What STRAIN are you growing? Rockstar Kush
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?) clone
What is the age of your plants? approx 1 month from cut
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Veg
What Technique are you using? LP Aero
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) N/A. Neoprene Pucks
What is the Nutrient temperature? 66-68f
What Nutrient's are you using? GH Maxibloom
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? Flushing with PH'd tap today, but prior to that 700ppm at .5 conversion (ec 1.4)
What is the pH of the "Tank"? Swing from 5.5-6.0
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment? Calibrated weekly, might grab some new solution soon to be sure
When was your last watering? 15 min on, 15 min off
When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional) Flushing with plain ph'd tap for 24 hours at the moment, before that it was maxibloom and nothing else
What size bulb are you using? 1000w HPS and 600w HPS, both in aircooled tubes
What is the distance to the canopy? approx 15 inches for the 1k, a couple feet for the 600
What is your RH Factor? RH is in the mid 50% range
What is the canopy temperature?76-78f
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range)Lights on 24h while vegging
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)CGE. 20" fan for room circulation (4x8 tent). 6" Vortec with carbon filter for scent and Icebox for cooling, C02 via Propane controlled by matador. Air from lights does not interact with room.
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?No, but they're dancing in the breeze a bit
Is your water HARD or SOFT?30-70ppm from the tap. (EC .06-.14)
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinchedNo
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? No, but I did add 4ml of bleach to the res a while back, long before any of this started
Are plant's infected with pest'sNo. No mites, no thirps, no fungus gnats.

About a week ago I noticed the top growth on one of my plants was looking a bit thick and leathery. Also, the tips (just the tips) of the leaves at the top of the plant were pointing downward on most every plant in the table. At that time I was in the mid to high 700ppm range (500 conversion). The PPM was dropping daily so I assumed they were still eating, but I dropped the PPM to just under 700 just to be sure. A week later and the original plant is looking worse than ever and the problem is beginning to effect more plants. Oldest leaves are yellowing, tops of the plants show twisted new growth and intervenal chlorosis on the older top leaves.

Did a res change last night. Flushing with PH'd tap for 24 hours. When I get home from work today I plan to do another res change and start feeding them again but I'm unsure where my target nute strength should be to get them happy again. My gut is telling me I'm dealing with a touch of overfert (even though no real tip burn to be seen) or perhaps PH issues, but I'm not 100% sure and can't afford any more setbacks. This fickle little bitch of a strain is beginning to drive me nuts, and I need help getting back on track... please

Your plants look extremely overwatered. Those roots need some oxygen.

How is overwatering possible in aeroponics? Thought that was impossible since the nute solution is highly aerated during the feeding process. Hmmm.

I know you are ph ing your water but it looks like ph is too high.

I would say in pic.1 signs of mag. def for sure, getting lighter between veins while they (veins) remain green. Overall wilted look w/ rolled margins, tips pointing down could be a couple things. All they have had for nutes is GH Maxibloom? I just re-read that. The reddish/purple stem in pic.2 is that genetic? if not Ph could be blocking out things that are present in your res. but without veg nutes you could be short on zinc, iron, mag. and the rest of the micronutrients, I would support Briar Patch with slightly too high of a ph. Stay below 5.8 to make it easier on yourself. HUGE could be on to something if the dissolved o2 is low, I have to say that you are lacking micro nutes IMHO. Good luck and you seem to be on the right track Sensi

There are whole threads dedicated to using only maxibloom.

Maxibloom is basically Lucas Formula in powder form. It's like liquid Flora Nova with the water removed.

I'm not speaking from personal experience, but from what I've read from others here, but I don't think that's the problem here. (Unless you're failing to fully dissolve the maxibloom and your PH is being altered over time as things mix in your res?)

Just ideas. Maybe it'll spark something useful.

Anti said:

There are whole threads dedicated to using only maxibloom.

Maxibloom is basically Lucas Formula in powder form. It's like liquid Flora Nova with the water removed.

I'm not speaking from personal experience, but from what I've read from others here, but I don't think that's the problem here. (Unless you're failing to fully dissolve the maxibloom and your PH is being altered over time as things mix in your res?)

Just ideas. Maybe it'll spark something useful.

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I was of the same understanding of Maxibloom's nutrient profile being complete and appropriate. That said I do have some Cal-Mag plus on hand if needed, which it potentially may be I guess considering my tap is as clean as some peoples RO. I'm out of my element on that though, and all that N in the Cal Mag kinda worries me a little too much to just throw it in there all willy-nilly. lol

As far as dissolving the Maxibloom powder I actually use hot tap water and one of those high-speed hand mixers with the single blade on the bottom to get it all mixed, then add it to the fresh water in the res with the pump recirculating. Should be more than good there I'd think.

foliar feed cal mag thats very como with maxibloom as the nitrogen used brings down ph very quickly, i would also dilute to 400 ppm maxibloom and ph at 7 for foliar feeding with cal mag and should be ok.

i like using a nice 5 5 5 organic guano and cal mag when i c deficiencies the plants react ver well.always ph at 7 when foliar with lights off with supplemental lighting like floresencts for about an hour till the plants soak up all the juice.

Is all they have ever been feed maxi bloom? No maxi grow or anything else? Guess I'm wondering why you'd be feeding veging plants bloom nutrients? My experience showed me I needed to add cal mag with the maxi grow/bloom series. Just not enough in it imho.. I used maxi grow through veg and the first 2 weeks into bloom, adding some of the maxi bloom the middle of the 2nd week.
Oh, and you're mixing the maxi bloom just fine. Same way, almost, as I used to when I used it. I'd use hot water and shake the shit outta it, then add cold water to it in a juice jug before adding to the res.
BTW, I've used the maxi grow/bloom and Flora Nova, using floralicious plus with both, side by side on the same plant. Flora Nova hands down for better yield, smell, and taste. imo.
Keep the ph between 5.6 to 5.8 and things should be good. Again, just my opinion.
EC is about spot on too. I very rarely go above 1.4 to 1.5 (during bloom) on any strain. Just seems to work for me.

It's definitely your pH. Looks too low to me.... 6.3 for hydro is ideal, imo.

I would say it's Mg lockout- try adding Epsom salts to your solution - available at any pharmacy for a few dollars.

Hit the hydro shop and get a bottle of pH drops for about $10... I always keep these on hand to check the accuracy of the pH meters which are very delicate and can get thrown off scale really easily... even if your numbers seem right, the pH could be way out. The pics tell me clearly it's not within the desired range.

They'll bounce back when the pH settles, but you are going to lose a lot of that leaf.... those are really badly damaged.

Let us know how it goes....
-Chimera

in hydro u get cal mag issues all the time cause there is no sweet spot for cal mag its either 5.9 and above for mag or 5.7 and below for cal kinda weird there are ph charts around that can better explain. i donno why they call it rockstar kush when its soma seeds rock bud crossed with a sensi star dad.

btw i would bu ph test strips just in case you wanna double check ph levels as sometimes meters can go off

SensiBC said:

My gut is telling me I'm dealing with a touch of overfert

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go with your gut...its always right (if its really your gut)....when plants get overfed they start to claw just like that from being all filled up with nutes....if you can always use RO water with aero or hydro....hard to tell whats in the tap....they are finding chromium 6 in tap water all over the country at the moment so no tellin wtf is in there....i never push my ec higher than 1.0, i usually put it at 420 and it makes its way up to 560 but i dont let it get higher than that...

I guarantee you, %100 this is NOT overfert.

It's pH related.

Just saw you are using neoprene... can you remove the plant from the system, and run pH 7 water through the medium, collect the runoff and the test the pH of the water... this is going to tell you what's up with the pH.. be it high or low. Once you have this info, you'll know how to fiz the problem.

This is not calcium deficiency, it looks like Mg, possibly Zn or a combination of the 2.

and i would say you Chimera def know more than me so dont listen to me Sensi as my two cents just became one....

SensiBC said:

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? No, but I did add 4ml of bleach to the res a while back, long before any of this started

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damn i never new you could put bleach in the res....learn something everyday.... i heard of peroxide but not bleach, i use bleach to clean the res and what not but what does it do when you add it to the res?...i been searching but cant find anything about adding bleach to the res, would definitely like to know more....

resinryder said:

Is all they have ever been feed maxi bloom? No maxi grow or anything else? Guess I'm wondering why you'd be feeding veging plants bloom nutrients? My experience showed me I needed to add cal mag with the maxi grow/bloom series. Just not enough in it imho.. I used maxi grow through veg and the first 2 weeks into bloom, adding some of the maxi bloom the middle of the 2nd week.
Oh, and you're mixing the maxi bloom just fine. Same way, almost, as I used to when I used it. I'd use hot water and shake the shit outta it, then add cold water to it in a juice jug before adding to the res.
BTW, I've used the maxi grow/bloom and Flora Nova, using floralicious plus with both, side by side on the same plant. Flora Nova hands down for better yield, smell, and taste. imo.
Keep the ph between 5.6 to 5.8 and things should be good. Again, just my opinion.
EC is about spot on too. I very rarely go above 1.4 to 1.5 (during bloom) on any strain. Just seems to work for me.

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I'm only using the maxibloom because it was my understanding that it had everything the plants needed, and that the maxigrow wasn't necessary. Kinda like how it seems no one uses Gh's flora grow, just micro and bloom. If you've got a minute check out the KISS thread in the nutrients forum. Lots of people having great luck with just Maxibloom in there. I was one of them too, until recently.

Northstate:

I do believe the purpling on the stems is genetic. I've had this strain for a few years now, and even at their healthiest they show that coloring. I think you guys are on to something though. Even if the Maxibloom has everything I need, it's not available to the plant at the moment.

Chimera:

These plants (12 of em) are in a home built aero table. Basically an E&F table with a sheet of extruded polystyrene for a top with holes cut in it, neoprene pucks hold the stems of the plants and the roots dangle below in open air with no media to speak of. A PVC manifold is in the table with a bunch of EZ clone sprayers that mist the roots for 15 minutes every 15 minutes. I've got another table just like this sitting next to this one on a seperate res with no plants in it and the systems PH does not fluctuate as everything in the empty system is inert. Since there is no media in there (no hydroton, rockwool, STG, etc) I doubt pulling the plants and running the system empty will provide any worthwhile results. Not to mention the rootmass inside that table is a sight to be seen. Tons of healthy white roots everywhere, which I'll have a hard time pulling through the 2" holes in the top without seriously damaging the root system.

Briansellz: It's commonly referred to as a "Dead res". Adding bleach was something I never would have considered either, until I read about it online and heard about the outstanding results. I used to spend so much money on beneficial bacteria and enzymes and whatnot, but never really saw any benefit, they cost a fortune, and seemed to muck up my res a bit. Apparently a small amount of bleach (very small! Around .25ml/gal or less) added to the res keeps things sterile without negatively effecting the plants. I'd wait till they're established though, because according to the people at EZ-Clone bleach can inhibit or even completely prevent the rooting of cuts. YMMV though I guess.