Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

Granger2 · Apr 17, 2013

eddy,
Use a good root stimulator, like GO BioRoot or Roots Excelurator. Apply to roots. Also foliar twice a few days apart. Use transition nutes w/root stim. for both roots and foliage apps. Also use a good enzyme product like Hygrozyme or Cannazyme or {I hear and read] AN's zyme product. Inoculate either with EWC ACT or a good commercial inoculant like Great White or similar or both. Good luck. -granger

RetroGrow · Apr 17, 2013

specialeddy said:
Can we all agree to disagree and come together Back to the problem at hand. So its been several days since I discovered and treated these grimmy creeps. As I stated I bombed and drenched with Bayer fruits and citrus @10ml. ALL CREEPS ARE DEAD !!!! Now as I look into the carnage I see ALOT dead creeps. Initially I identified the Root Aphids, the flyers, some crabs, the last one to show up is all black . Could it be RA at a different stage of it's life. Anyways creeps are dead, however they did damages. My roots are struggling to get back on board and I lost a chunk of foliage. I'm 3weeks into flower and what's developing looks reasonable considering So theres part of my update. Bugs suck!!!!! Bayer worked for me at eradication. How to recover ?? Any help with getting the roots back and getting green again. Thanks.

Use aspirin @ 325 Mg. per gallon to boost plants immune system. This usually perks plant up overnight.

specialeddy · Apr 17, 2013

Retro no kidding, trippy....... sorry had to edit

k-grower · Apr 17, 2013

if you got decent much of uv-b on the growroom it kills all the bugs who ever goes there,it also boost up thc production of the plant.
i recommend of least one 24w 120cm length uv-b 5.0 light for xl tent size area.
never again you have bug problems... so easy.
if you have any doubts, i got scientifical studies made of both claims, pm if you are intressed of them

Granger2 · Apr 17, 2013

K,
You're right about the UVB, but I don't think it will kill any bugs that stay in the medium, unexposed. I need to try Aspirin. Many good reports for immune issues.

Retro, do you know if it has any effect on beneficial Nematodes? -granger

k-grower · Apr 17, 2013

how they got on medium if uv-b lights are on? adults will come to surface and die,eventually even in medium being gnats come to surface and die.

Weezard · Apr 17, 2013

Information

Information

Not wishing to restart any bickering.
I'm just stating what I have observed.

Bought a new bag of Black Gold pure coco.
Took a clean garbage can and lined it with a new plastic bag.
Set the coco in that, cut a slit, removed about 2 liters for up-potting.
Sealed the bag, sealed the garbage bag, and put the snugly fitting lid on the can.
Went on about me business.

Plants start losing bottom leaf at an alarming rate.
I do the "what's wrong" dance for a while while it gets critical.
Then, Crap! a flyer.

Put a slice of potato on the surface and wait a day.
Here's what I find.

See them eggs?

Had not opened the coco since the first opening.
When I pulled the lid and opened the garbage bag.
I thought I saw a flyer!
So I grabbed a cup of coco and ran it under the 'scope.

I'm here to say, that for whatever reason, RAs do seem to lay egg in coco.
Won't speculate on the actual vector, but the RA eggs in new coco is no myth.

I threw a few million nematodes at the flowering girls and used Imid on the veggers.
When the imid has broken down I'll hit them all with bacterial and fugal spores.

And I'll innoculate any future bags of coco with said spores because they kill the eggs too.

Anyroad, that's the plan.
Vill it Verk? V shell C.
The new growth looks promising.

Again, not looking for hubris, just stating observations. :huggg:

Aloha,
Weeze

specialeddy · Apr 18, 2013

Granger, I didn't see your post. Thanks for the info. I'm using Roots excel, and tonight got to see some new growth on the roots :woohoo:

I dont think the yellow leaves are gonna change back to green, however I'll give some foiler spraying a couple times over the next couple days a shot. Thanks again.

specialeddy · Apr 18, 2013

Weezard........No man , this is Dave !!!! Hey is there any chance you have mixed other mediums in the can. I believe I caught mine from a bucket set up I had used previously, over a year ago. However it would change the way I think about stuff if coco might come ' pre charged' with creeps

Canniwhatsis · Apr 18, 2013

Damn,..... I'm sorry Weez, I don't see any aphids there. Some kind of soil mite yes,... not aphids tho.

Does the manufacture of the CoCo make soil as well? Was the CoCo hard pressed brick or loose? Were there any amendments already in the CoCo?

If it wasn't the hard pressed brick that you've gotta re-hydrate yourself and it was manufactured by someone who also does soil,... it would stand to reason that soilborn bugs will have a chance of being there.

I know next to nothing about CoCo,... other than I don't like it for anything more than lining my lizard cage.

My Bug comments seem fairly common sense, but if not I've got a pretty damned good flame suit.

I have tried a grow with coco,.... fucked me all up! I know jack SHIT about hydro, and that's more the medium it's intended to be in raw form.

medicalmj · Apr 18, 2013

Weezard said:
...Then, Crap! a flyer.

Put a slice of potato on the surface and wait a day.
Here's what I find.
View attachment 217576
View attachment 217577
View attachment 217578
...See them eggs?...
I'm here to say, that for whatever reason, RAs do seem to lay egg in coco.
Won't speculate on the actual vector, but the RA eggs in new coco is no myth....

Those aren't RA's (or FGs if you meant those too)!!!!

This thread sucks because it sets up a false dichotomy, FGs or RAs, which is bullshit. What many seem to really have is mites. They get some issue, see mites and holy shit its the end of the world because I got fucking mites and think they're RAs. So now lets douse our shit, which you'll surely get now, with every fucking chemical and treatment known to man. Good luck with that.

sneaky_g · Apr 18, 2013

Are we talking about canna coco?

medicalmj · Apr 18, 2013

sneaky_g said:
Are we talking about canna coco?

Those are mites so asking the brand is totally irrelevant due to the "nature" of mites. By "nature" I mean all the scientific understanding of mites.

And wow, mites belong to the Acariformes superorder and are the more diverse of the two superorders of mites, the other superoder within the subclass Acari includes ticks. There are over 32,000 described species in 351 families, and an estimated total of 440,000 to 929,000, including undescribed species. They approx. number the total number of insects species. And are fundamental in sustaining life on earth.

Furthermore, mites are phoretic and seem to appear out of nowhere. They can undergo a seemingly state of suspended animation and hitch a ride on basically anything from a migrating birds feather to the leg of an insect to the fibers on your clothes. There is a mite species for almost every imaginable environment.

When it comes to the decomposers, they are the most abundant, unlike the few species that eat plants (spidermites, broad mites, etc). What this means with a mite in soil, coco, RDWC, or in Rockwool, is that it is a good environment for some species and they have a peculiar way of showing up unlike spider mites that need to be transported in a more conventional manner.

Weezard · Apr 18, 2013

Mahalo Canna,

For a very helpful, and un-insulting post.

You might be right.
I'm certainly no expert.

And these old eyes are about worn out, but they look like RAs to me.

Right down to the eggs and my stable of dying plants.
The symptoms match to a T.
And mites look quite different to me.

Of course I only have experience with 2 kinds of mites
and thought they were an above soil thing only.

Also, I've dealt with regular, above-ground, aphids, they are easy.
At least I can see them without a lens.

I'm also going by the RA flyers.
Mites no got flyers as far as I know.

And I have dealt with fungus gnats.
(Which came in a bag of Sunshine mix from the same nursery)
They are also, easy.

The flyers are quite different from fungus gnats and do match the pictures of root aphid flyers.
That, and the slightly larger FGs "wander" while the RAs fly direct.
So, you can understand my confusion.

Fortunately, the nematodes are effective for both, as is the Fungal cure.

So, thanks brother. :thank you:

My gals are recovering, but I got choke research to do.

Aloha, Y'all
Weezard

ballplayer 2 · Apr 18, 2013

Good find weezard. They do look pretty similar to the sugar beet root aphid. I know I had these and my crops got jacked up real bad, talking hermie pre flowers during veg and very beginning of flower. Fliers were also clearly present in my grows, I am certain they were not FG's.

I know they look like mites, but I am pretty sure mine were RA's. Your bugs look exactly the same as the ones I had. My damage was fairly clearly RA like. Just my take.

Weezard · Apr 19, 2013

ballplayer 2 said:
Good find weezard. They do look pretty similar to the sugar beet root aphid. I know I had these and my crops got jacked up real bad, talking hermie pre flowers during veg and very beginning of flower. Fliers were also clearly present in my grows, I am certain they were not FG's.

I know they look like mites, but I am pretty sure mine were RA's. Your bugs look exactly the same as the ones I had. My damage was fairly clearly RA like. Just my take.

Mahalo brah.
I went and watched the soil mite videos.
Noticed that they have long, thin hairs on their bodies
And a face like a squid.
My beasties have neither.
And, I've watched them munch root hairs

I don't care what you callem .
I jus' wanna callem gone!
No mind a mystery.
as long as dey's history.
And every man-jack of 'em under da lawn!

Aloha,
Weeze

Granger2 · Apr 19, 2013

K,
Eventually you may kill all the RA's as they turn into flyers and surface. In the mean time your plants are toast. -granger

Granger2 · Apr 19, 2013

Weez,
Go to page 1 of this thread for good pics for ID'ing. -granger

medicalmj · Apr 19, 2013

Weezard said:
Mahalo brah.
I went and watched the soil mite videos.
Noticed that they have long, thin hairs on their bodies
And a face like a squid.
My beasties have neither.
And, I've watched them munch root hairs

I don't care what you callem .
I jus' wanna callem gone!
No mind a mystery.
as long as dey's history.
And every man-jack of 'em under da lawn!

Aloha,
Weeze

The sugar beet RA is pale yellow and surrounded by a white, mold-like wax.

Soil mites come in thousands of shapes and colors. Some have hairs some don't (or you just can't see em), some have long protrusions for mouth feeding part, others are pointed down. And some have a thing that appears to look like opposing blades flickering back and forth in their mouth area. at first glance you might think this is slicing into roots but upon careful observation it really is just eating bacteria or fungus off the root.

One thing you can do to ID is count the legs. While on the very young mites you can only see 6, most will have 8. And RAs will have 6. And while the body structures is quite different, this can be difficult to tell w/o 40x and some experience.

Cannasseur · Apr 20, 2013

Thank you medicalmj, good to see someone with a noggin on their shoulders! I hate the amount of improper identification that stems from the cannabis world...

A distinguishing characteristic of aphids are the cornicles, (2 "tailpipes" located on their abdomen)....

7HBHIHDHMHTH4H1HGHCH4HVHXH3HXHOH8HTH7HBH8H1HHL4Z8HBHGHHRGH4Z0LAZUHUZHLTHMHDHXH.jpg

If you don't see cornicles, then most likely you are not looking at an aphid.

Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

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