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coco+wick+gh flora nova=never dump run-off|pdg’s imaginary/enjoyable garden

P

purpledomgoddes

coco+wick+gh fnb=never dump run-off
after trying many different types of gardening/growing systems, this method has proven to be the most reliable, easiest to construct and manitain; and most of all, most enjoyable. Sharing this experience to give back to icmag in appreciation of all that icmag is. Hope it is useful to the gardeners here that have considered this approach, and to those that have no room/time/inclination to experiment. May be very useful to those that cannot logistically water often, do not have room for external res’, travel, or just want a simple garden whose materials are free, cheap, and easy to maintain.

Method objectives
(1) no reliance on machines for delivery of nutes/water;

(2) ability to garden through entire season w/out dumping run-off nutes/water;

(3) ability to leave garden unattended for at least a week, w/out plants drying out or otherwise suffering;

(4) long-term ph stability;

(5) ability to do long slow flush;

(6) ease of acquiring/replacing/re-using materials; and

(7) general ease of function.

All of the objectives have been met thru several crops.

how this has worked for member purpledomgoddes over several crop cycles
have ran aero, dwc, soil, soilless mixes, compost mixes, etc. this method is by far the easiest to construct and maintain, the most productive, and requires least amount of attendance, machine assistance and/or adjustments.

imaginary garden did not permit conveyance of water to/fro garden, or ease in getting water out of buckets once fed.

print resouces:
high times magazine, october 2001 issue, 'the chronic crew' by kyle kushman; and heads magazine, issue no. 7, march 2002, 'no sweat hydro' (the wick system).

occasion and necessity made it so that had to try method, w/ modification learned running krusty buckets, and soilless mixes.

actually have lots of air pumps, air stones, manifolds, entire drip systems, ph/tds/ec meters, etc, etc. only gets in the way now. just want to water couple times a week and enjoy the garden itself - not the machines that may tend to become omnipresent. growing flowers, not machines.

so, had concept of low-to-no machine asissted grow whose parts could be attainable freely, or w/ minimal coins being spent. beleive achieved goal.

dont post pics of garden - though did last night in wreckless mode. wont post here. feel descriptions and images acquired from net should be sufficient for those that want to duplicate. will remain lurker in that regard; yet details provided should be enough for the seriously interested.


images

4 gallon bucket
lip fits perfectly over lip of round 5 gallon bucket. no need for spacer. approximately 2-3 inches between bottom of 4 gal, and bottom of 5 gal.
able to acquire for free from bakeries and donut shops, restaurants, etc.
images

5 gallon bucket
4 gal bucket fits into this bucket. the corners will anchor onto the lip of the 5 gal bucket.
able to acquire for free from bakeries and donut shops, restaraunts, etc.
images

1/2 inch twisted nylon rope/wick.
cut rope to approximately 1 foot lengths. this is scalable. can make length longer if desire more rope to be splayed/distributed in media. have used only 1 (one) 1 foot piece of rope per bucket, but can add as many as desired.

avoid leaded marine rope.

twenty pieces of gold for 100 feet.

can use 5/8", or 1" rope, or any dimension desired.

Am considering using this type of wicking material next run, although cheap rope works real well:
aquasorb.jpg

aquasorb microfiber towel
Non-Linting
Manufactured from a bi-component knitted microfibre nylon/polyester material that does not shed lint.
Washable Can be processed many times through a commercial linen service or in-house washer
Super Absorbent Microfibre will absorb 315% of its own weight without dripping.
Autoclavable
Can be steam sterilized at 134 degrees celsius
Durable
May be processed and used repeatedly, works in harmony with moisture repellent drapes
[FONT=&quot]
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utility knife
use this to cut lengths of rope, and cut holes in 4 gal bucket. have many blades on hand; blades get dull quickly from cutting rope and plastic.
images

wood spade bit
can also use this to cut hole(s) in 4 gal bucket, if have drill. utility knife will do job though.good idea to be careful w/ razors, in general.
images

black gold coco blend
ingredients: canadian sphaghnum peat moss, coconut fiber, eartworm castings, pumice, dolomite lime, and organic wetting agent. dolomite lime assists in ph stabilization. earth worm castings good general amendment.
images

coco fiber brick
mixed 50/50 w/ black gold coco blend.
images

perlite
used for bottom 2” of 4 gallon bucket, mixed 50/50 w/ coco, and as 2” top dressing.
images

hydrogen peroxide
mixed w/ tap water before nutes @ 1-2 cap fulls per gallon. used to oxidize unwanted organisms, oxygenate water, and a general sterilizer. neither pests nor mold like it.
have also used iodine (colorless) to kill undeisrable organisms, @ 1/2 cap full per gallon. terminates all mold, etc. in/on drain holes/rope.
images

gh flora nova bloom
very good stand alone fertilizer. can use this throughout entire grow (veg/bloom) and never lack anything. excellent @ maintaining a stable ph.
have went entire flowering cycle using this nute as base, w/out ever dumping run-off.

can really use this one nute for veg and flower, and dont really need any additives, if have/want to.

also use the following nutes: gh floralicious bloom, gh kool bloom (liquid), black jack humic acid, mag-i-cal, and molasses. all @ cap full per gallon.

add the h202 first, as it will increase ph. add the rest of the regime, allow ph to settle; adjust w/ vingar if needed. usually settles @~ 6.2 ph/1000 ppm. in early flower, gets dropped to 5.5-5.8 ph, and mid-flower allowed to drift; left unchecked. never really have to check ph or ppms, but do so periodically. ph drift permitted to aloow different nutes to assimilate @ their optimal ph.

tap water.

as a side note, the same regime used to feed the roots are foliar fed to the plants @ ph 6.8-8.0 weekly. There are also foliar fed w/ just h202 and water weekly, ph 6.8-8.0. this stops @~ 14 days left in cycle.
images

turkey baster (large)
if necessary, these cheap devices can be used to extract all of the water/nutes from the bottom of the 5 gallon bucket, if dont have/dont want to use pumps, and want to make bucket empty fast. surprisingly efficient.

wanted to do entire grow w/out using a water pump or oxygen diffuser, or ph or tds/ppm/ec meter. did it w/out issues using this method.

watering/feeding
an advantage of this method is that the gardener can actually observe that plant drinking water, and easily replace it. the wick will simply draw water up into the bottom of the 4 gallon bucket, and up the rope to where the roots will have inter-twined w/ the ropes.

can feed by pouring nutes/water directly into the bottom 5 gallon bucket, so that roots are compeled to go down and out of bucket; or top feed, around edges of buckets. or both.

very appraent when plant needs water: you see 1/8" of water in bottom bucket, when there was 1" day before.

here, dont routinely test ph before feeding, but can if want to. gh seems to buffer very well, regardless of the dilution or concentration of the ferts applied.

however, would feed lightly w/ this method, as there will be build up of salts. the good thing is that that that build can be used by simply applying water. it will dilute nutes already present, and reduce need for constant feeding.

what to do w/ above listed materials
1) cut/drill holes into 4 gallon bucket. here, 4 1" holes are cut/drilled; 1 per side of 4 gallon bucket.

2) rope lengths are cut. here, only use 1 length of 1 foot rope, but can use as many as desired. have used 4 pieces extending through all 4 cut holes too. each end of the rope is frayed/unraveled. this is why twisted rope is used instead of braided rope.

one end of the rope is extended out of the hole(s) ~3-6". the other end is unraveled to spread/splay/distribute in media.

at least one frayed end should be placed in the bottom 2" of the 4 gallon bucket, to accomplish an inner-res, should the bottom 5 gallon bucket dry out - for whatever reason. this incorporates the hempy method w/ the fail-safe of the wick method.

3) place 2" of perlite in bottom of 4 gallon bucket. place rest of media in 4 gallon bucket. spread rope ends around in media. the roots actually lock onto and inter-twine themselves into the fibers of this rope like vines. nearly impossible to tear out of bucket once plant is mature; if snatched out, will tear out chunk of roots. roots can also grow out of the 4 gal, piggy-backing on the rope, down into the 5 gal. bucket, if kept highly saturated.

4) place plant in 4 gallon bucket, w/ roots on top of/surrounded by frayed rope ends. place 2" layer of perlite on top as top dressing (optional). this is done here to discourage bugs, combat algae, and insulate the media.

5) place 4 gallon bucket inside of 5 gallon bucket. nothing need to be done to 5 gallon bucket. water/fertilize. end.

no need to ever dump run-off from watering. ph remains stable (5.8-6.5) throughout flowering.

usually stop feeding @ 2 weeks left. they get only h202 w/ tap water until 3 days left. then they are dried out for last 3 days in darkness.

harvest tasty tomatoes. end.

Next project is to find/mix fert comparable to gh flora nova in media, and only use tap water throughout grow:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=126834 goal: pre-fertilized coco+water only

feel free to post comments, questions, critiques, etc.

contributing due to how much icmag has been helpful.

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!
[/FONT]
 
T

thepike1984

Thats an excellent guide mate. I can see the logic but does this actually work? Could i realy leave my plants for up to a week using this method? Im going to give this a try in a few grows time. Thanks again buddy
 
P

purpledomgoddes

Thats an excellent guide mate. I can see the logic but does this actually work? Could i realy leave my plants for up to a week using this method? Im going to give this a try in a few grows time. Thanks again buddy
yes, this method actually works.

have left unattended for a week.

there is about 2-3 inches between the 4 gallon bucket and the 5 gallon bucket.

usually water until get run-off, which winds up being about a half to 1 gallon. this amount of water will fill the area below the drain holes in the 4 gallon bucket.

during early flowering, plants take couple days to draw this up. during mid-flowering they can easily draw 1/2-1 gallon, or more, in 12 hours.

to extend the time between waterings, simply water until the level goes above the drain holes, up to the desired level in the 5 gallon bucket.

due to the 4 gal taking up the space in the 5 gal, will only be able to pour in (whether directly into the media, or between buckets, directly into 5 gal) ~2 gallons of solution/water.

maximum length of time between waterings depends on (1) maturity stage; (2) specific plants' consumption needs; and (3) amount of solution available to root zone.

easiest way to increase length of time between watering is to increase size of reservoir (5 gal bucket). can put more water/solution into a 8, 10, 12 or 18 gallon tote/container than a 5 gallon one. the 5 gal's are just easier to acquire/replace/move around.

ultimate goal is to pre-mix the media, raise the 4 gal bucket (or other container), place a 55-100 gallon tank of water (or a few jars of soil moist polymers) into a lower container, and never have to water or feed for the entire flowering cycle.

1 week in 4 and 5 gallon buckets is easily doable. to increase length of absence, increase size of both containers.
 
T

thepike1984

yes, this method actually works.

have left unattended for a week.

there is about 2-3 inches between the 4 gallon bucket and the 5 gallon bucket.

usually water until get run-off, which winds up being about a half to 1 gallon. this amount of water will fill the area below the drain holes in the 4 gallon bucket.

during early flowering, plants take couple days to draw this up. during mid-flowering they can easily draw 1/2-1 gallon, or more, in 12 hours.

to extend the time between waterings, simply water until the level goes above the drain holes, up to the desired level in the 5 gallon bucket.

due to the 4 gal taking up the space in the 5 gal, will only be able to pour in (whether directly into the media, or between buckets, directly into 5 gal) ~2 gallons of solution/water.

maximum length of time between waterings depends on (1) maturity stage; (2) specific plants' consumption needs; and (3) amount of solution available to root zone.

easiest way to increase length of time between watering is to increase size of reservoir (5 gal bucket). can put more water/solution into a 8, 10, 12 or 18 gallon tote/container than a 5 gallon one. the 5 gal's are just easier to acquire/replace/move around.

ultimate goal is to pre-mix the media, raise the 4 gal bucket (or other container), place a 55-100 gallon tank of water (or a few jars of soil moist polymers) into a lower container, and never have to water or feed for the entire flowering cycle.

1 week in 4 and 5 gallon buckets is easily doable. to increase length of absence, increase size of both containers.

That basically answered every question i had for you lol.
Im a first time grower so this method kinda baffled me when i first read it. A few reads and i got it :joint:. Seems to me a very easy and usefull method that will work. Will defo try this when i have more experiance and some more confidence in myself.:redface:
 
P

purpledomgoddes

only optional/potentially advantageous addition to set-up would be to add small air stone, or other oxygenation to bottom 5 gallon bucket.

have ran several times w/out aeration, but from running dwc, suspect that air stone in root zone would only help plants.
 
L

LJB

only optional/potentially advantageous addition to set-up would be to add small air stone, or other oxygenation to bottom 5 gallon bucket.

have ran several times w/out aeration, but from running dwc, suspect that air stone in root zone would only help plants.

I'm wondering if it wouldn't make them explode with growth...
 

terry tibbs

New member
would i be right in thinking this is similar to the autopot,but using the capillery action of the wick,instead of the medium?.......oh,and a shit load cheaper lol
 
P

purpledomgoddes

I'm wondering if it wouldn't make them explode with growth...
may be. but am going w/ no machine assistance/reliance, and everything is beautiful.

the air circulation in the garden is voluminous. actually gets in space between buckets, so room becomes big air stone.

also, hydrogen peroxide breaks down into oxygen w/ time+heat; so each feeding supplies future oxygen that is almost time-released in solution in bottom bucket.

cannot stress importance of internal air flow/circulation/volume enough. very crucial to provide air circulation coupled w/ dehumidification of some sort.

terry tibbs said:
would i be right in thinking this is similar to the autopot,but using the capillery action of the wick,instead of the medium?.......oh,and a shit load cheaper lol

not really familar w/ autopot. works like automatic pet/gravity waterer, right? gravity valve allows water into pan when pressure decreases?

idea is not to rely on any automation. just pour in water/feed and that it.

already have bunch of air pumps, water pumps, meters, hoses, this/that. dont want any of those machines around now. dont need them. they just get in way of enjoying garden. they require constant checking/unclogging/maneuvering/observation. presently, only want to observe flowers - not the supreme glory of machines/automation. fruits and flowers are beautiful, awe inspiring and invoke sense of peace. machines do none of those things.

during mid-late flower, actually pour water OVER the drain holes. the plants can easily drink a gollon or more of water a day. IF they have drank this much, there will still be wick below drainage hole line, for fail-safe.

the nylon rope remains saturated 24/7. there is never any period during
the grow in which the media is dry. w/ coco, really impossible to overwater.

after running this method several times, seems that some using coco may be UNDERWATERING their plants. they really can drink a lot during fruiting. would allocate @ least a gallon+ water per day per plant during flowering - whatever method growing in.

yes, method is very cheap, easily duplicated, and easily broken down. low maintenance, and fool proof.

buckets are free. rope is pennies per foot. coco is relatively inexpensive. 1 bottle of nutes (fnb as base of any mix that can have additives, but certainly not necessary w/ gh fnb). thats it.

SensimillaWolf said:
are they any concerns about salt-buildup in the coco?
no, not @ all.

feed w/ the regime listed in post 1. tested the ph and ppm of the mix several times, over several slight variations, @ different points during first time using this method.

generally, the approximate ph was 5.8-6.3, w/ out adjusting it. ppms of above mix was 800-1000. ph just right for them to eat when/what they want.

ph drifts to whatever it is. allows different electrical charges (another term for ppms/"salts") to be assimilated over couse of week or so. but, since there is never any lack of water/solution in bottom bucket, remainder of gh solution stays ph buffered.

dont ever test ph or ppm any more. no need to. gh buffers extremely well.
usually only feed w/ the solution 1-2 times per week anyway. water is added every 2-3 days, depending on stage of growth/how much they are drinking.
so, if there is a build up of salts, they are being diluted by the watering between fertilization.

it is important to note here that each variety will have its own particular needs relevant to water and/or fertilizer consumption. some plants can drink 2 gallons of water a day, eat whatever mixed in the solution - and still want more. some will be finicky and want more water than nutes; some will want to be left alone altogether. this is where the gardener's skill level comes in. has to be learned and modified - whatever system/method of growing employed - especially if growing several distinct cultivars @ same time.

plants really dont eat 1000 ppms of compounds in 1 day, or even 7 days. the point is supply all of the compunds plants MAY need over that span of time. they eat what they want.

also, if there is salt build-up, it is used to the benefit of the garden... this permits a long, slow flush: 2-3 weeks. for final 2-3 weeks, again, depending on strain, only provide tap water w/ h202. last 3 days no water and serious dehumidification.

by the time harvest comes, plant will have had long, slow flush (in which nutes are GRADUALLY rinsed out (but still present just enough for the use of the plant, if needed); and will be totally free of anything + partially dry.

not 1 drop of water or nutes are ever dumped/wasted/not utilized.

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!
 
C

CMoon

very good post dude, have a search for the 'blumat' watering cones to notch your method up a cog......it did for me from simular reliable methods

bests cmoon
 
P

purpledomgoddes

very good post dude, have a search for the 'blumat' watering cones to notch your method up a cog......it did for me from simular reliable methods

bests cmoon
have these machines available presently:
several rio water pumps (from aeroponic grows)
several air pumps (from dwc+aero grows)
50' of soaker hose (from old krusty bucket grows)
air stones (from dwc+kbs grows)
1/8" vinyl tubing (dwc/kbs)
1/2" vinyl+poly hoses (dwc/kbs)

have checked out the blumat. nice product. am anti-automation now. dont want any tubes in garden. not needed.

that 1 piece of rope in that 1 bottom bucket is all the automation wanted/needed. plants are lacking for nothing.

plants need no top watering @ all after 1-2 weeks in flower. only get fed/watered by pouring solution/tap water into lower bucket.

kiss. end watering and enjoy the garden.

have left garden unattended for over w/ no issues. just pour water over drainage holes, and they will drink it up. no need to check this/that contraption, or make sure there is enough flow of water, etc.

there is no clear advantage to having an automated system supplying plants w/ water/fertilizer.

not less work either. still have to check to see if blumat is working right/enough water is getting to plant.

am absolutely certain enough water is supplied to plant now: can see it in lower bucket. can see level next morning. know exactly how much each particular cultivar eats. able to tailor accordingly.

am over next best thing, and have limited number of variables to:
1. 4 gallon bucket. (free)
2. 5 gallon bucket. (free)
3. nylon rope. (~20 pieces of gold for 100 feet @ any hardware store)
4. media. (coco base. perlite optional)
5. gh flora nova bloom (~20 pieces of gold per quart)

everything the plant wants/needs is supplied therein.

please gives details on exactly how blumat could/would "notch your method up a cog"???
 
P

purpledomgoddes

:yeahthats

dont really want to criticize that method, as that is another forum/thread. will point out differences from purpledomgoddes' method, and why they are employed:

step 1
have used w/ washed or unwashed ropes. washing does help initially, but once saturated, will wick appropriately.

step 2
if separating media/plant bucket fully from res bucket (placing plant on lid of 5 gal bucket), fully dependent upon wick for water.

this is why use square 4 gallon bucket, which fits perfectly in 5 gallon round bucket.

this facilitates ability to water over the drain hole(s) which the wick(s) are coming out of, fully saturating bottom of 4 gallon bucket (roots).

step 3
extend wick(s) up to base of root ball when transplanting. direct contact w/ water at all time. never wants for water.

media is really a gardener specific choice. coco+perlite has worked well here. the method in the link is the same, and should be effective.

thx for looking into the method. may be rewarding for your garden.

enjoy your garden!
*edit*
another inspiration for this method was an old thread @ either og or cw, by or dealing w/ lucas formula and dwc/bubblers.

basically, there was general consensus that garden could go entire grow w/ only adding back nutes @ between 30%-50% (believe those to be the specs). these add-backs, using gh nutes, made it possible to never have to dump dwc/bubblers.

ran dwc/bubblers "w/ out dumping run-off"; i.e.g., only added back nutes @ 30-50% throughout entire grow.

same principle applies here.
 

Rob547

East Coast Grower
Veteran
Very interesting Purple. Have been looking into running coco for a while, read alot of threads here. Have always been concerned/uncertain about how I would actually do it, hand-water vs drip etc. But this really seems like a great method, and about as simple as easy as it gets. I also leave every now and again for weekend or a few days so its nice to know it just needs to wick, no machines or anything like you said.
Have also been unsure about nutes, hear alot of options, never heard of anyone using FN bloom the whole grow though. Why no pics of this setup or plants in it?

+rep for the great info! Will definitely keep it in mind.
 
P

purpledomgoddes

Very interesting Purple. Have been looking into running coco for a while, read alot of threads here. Have always been concerned/uncertain about how I would actually do it, hand-water vs drip etc. But this really seems like a great method, and about as simple as easy as it gets. I also leave every now and again for weekend or a few days so its nice to know it just needs to wick, no machines or anything like you said.
Have also been unsure about nutes, hear alot of options, never heard of anyone using FN bloom the whole grow though. Why no pics of this setup or plants in it?

+rep for the great info! Will definitely keep it in mind.
pics of the set-up are included in post 1. instructions too. should be able to assemble w/out issues.

dont post pics of imaginary garden/plants. would love too, however current policies preclude that option. if c.ngress repeals/amends/re-enacts w/ amendments 21 usc 801; 841, imaginary tomato garden may come to life. as it stands, there is only imaginary garden, for entertainment and educational purposes only.

lack of pics from this member should not tarnish viability of method described.

actually took hours to find proper pics to descibe method and put together. took longer than would have if had pics of imaginary garden.

hope this helps. enjoy your flowers!

*edit*
from post 1
purpledomgoddes said:
dont post pics of garden - though did last night in wreckless mode. wont post here. feel descriptions and images acquired from net should be sufficient for those that want to duplicate. will remain lurker in that regard; yet details provided should be enough for the seriously interested.
 

*mistress*

Member
Veteran
you crazy son of a bitch... i gotta try this shit! :laughing:

thanks for sharing :joint:
feed only water when 2 weeks left.

then no water at all last week, and watch leaves slowly turn yellow.

plant will actually drink less, harden up the fruits and chew up last bits of n stored in leaves. full blossom.

substantially reduces amount of nutes+water used throughout entire season.
 
I have a question about the wick system, does the settled nutrient water at the bottom of the pail require a source of oxygen?

My pails go together like 2 4gallon pails, but there is still 1 1/2 inch of water space, should i figure out a way to get oxygen down there or will I be ok since the plants will get oxygen in the coco-coir and every time I re-fill I replace what oxygen is down there?
 

*mistress*

Member
Veteran
I have a question about the wick system, does the settled nutrient water at the bottom of the pail require a source of oxygen?

My pails go together like 2 4gallon pails, but there is still 1 1/2 inch of water space, should i figure out a way to get oxygen down there or will I be ok since the plants will get oxygen in the coco-coir and every time I re-fill I replace what oxygen is down there?
in imagination, ran several times w/out an air stone/diffuser/soaker hose...

do not have to get oxygen down there. especially if there is gap in space between pails. have lots of air flow in room. if foliar spray, no condensation on leaves, in >5 min. this relates to question about air in root zone because room itself can become huge air pump for roots, if enough holes in pails, and enough space available for air to permeate in. can measure the amount of air flow by amount of time condensation remains on leaves, and by how much water is dehumidified from room, approximately.

so, fans should be on high until they fail, 24/7, then replaced.

can also use hydrogen peroxide (h202) @ cap full (+) per gallon. the extra atom of oxygen (02) freely breaks free in solution, over time. h202 is also general disinfectant.

additional oxygenation is not necessary, but will cause no harm if wanted. may be advantageous, yet there is saturation point of oxygenation of roots. atmosphere is ~20% oxygen.
 
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