A budding organic convert - Help!

[amsterdame]

Hey there TK and all you organic heads....I'm done thinking about it. I'm ready to take the plunge into your world - organics! :eek: ;)

I've got some northernberry and bogbubble clones to work with. I've been primarily DWC the last 5 grows using the BC nute family and Liquid Karma, but am switching over to the autopot (http://www.futuregarden.com/hydroponics/systems_smartgarden.html) method and will be using a 16 gal res.

What is a good nute formula for an organic newbie to begin with?

And what are the most important things I need to keep in mind when working with organics?

Any other advice? All is appreciated!

merci beaucoup!

Cheers,

A*dame :wave:

[Dr. D]

Personally i use soil, i think theres not that many organic feeds that work in a res and also iv heard of problems with organic nutes in a res ph problems etc chemical feeds are broken down and readily availible to the plants organic r not they break down in the soil before they become availible to the plants to take up, y not try soil, go the whole hog, 9iuse bio-bizz nutes b,cuzz r good too and canna hav just brought out an organic range soil and all.peace

[Guest]

There are plenty of Organic Nutes that work in a hydro setup. They dont have to be broken down before they are absorbed, they are already broken down for the plants assimilation. Also PH problems wont be a problem for Organic Nutes like Pure Blend Pro it comes with a PH buffer. I hav'nt had to use my PH pen in a couple years. I think earth juice has the PH problem, If Organics are used in a recirculating system it will deplete magnesium up quickly. I see this as a positive sign. Its sucks it up that quick. I found sediment heavy organics tend to settle in the bottom of bubbler buckets. Thats my take on it for the most part.

To answer the question I say use PBP along with Liquid Karma. Go at half strength first and ramp it up accordingly. What to look out for is the TDS. True Organics naturally read very high. Not a problem. Just like any other system let the plant tell you what it wants. Good Luck!

Blatant

[TukTuk Seeds]

id say convert all the way to soil, youll be a happy camper :)

Peace
Bubba

[THC4SIM]

I just finished one big Bogbubble using Bio-Bizz all-mix, grow, bloom & topmax.. all organic... she had a few months outside, then flowered indoors under 600w. :p

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1039IMG_0526_JPG-med.jpg

organic is the only way to go, to get full flavour....., in my opinion..!

niceOne

THC4SIM

[Dr. D]

Did u have any probs with the bizz??? i use the full range too and hav had good and ok results iv had a few nutes deffiencies too.peace

[THC4SIM]

Yup, ive experienced a bit of trouble, yellowing and some leaves loosing colour and going crispy, while all the others are healthy, maybe a lot of other factors as well, so i cant realy put it down to the Bio-Bizz range.... maybe the feeding timeline and amounts of feed could be tweeked to get optimal results....

So all is good with the Bizz for me...:p

I give my mate Clunk66, 14 Bogbubble clones, his are close to finishing up, they look amazing!!, ill get him to do his first post this week with some pic's..
and you'll see why you want to go Organic!!!

niceOne

THC4SIM

[Dr. D]

Ive been lookin for others using bio-bizz, i believe its down to gettin the right amounts and the right ph I try to keep mine at about 6, wots urs??? I reckon organics is more complicated than the hydro??? its just down to experience and gettin it right , wot do u think??

[amsterdame]

This is a great start, thanks guyz....

I want to stick to hydro for now after the investment already made in the autopots. Autopots are a self-watering system where the modules holding 2 pots each are hooked to a rez and the plants basically feed themselves through a "smart valve". No pumps, no electricity needed.

Blatant, you mentioned something about sediment heavy nutes... the autopots aren't a recirculating system so I imagine this could become an issue for me as well. The nutes sit in the rez until called upon by the plants. Should I add a small pump or air stone to circulate the nutes?

Pure Blend Pro sounds like the way to go. I'll actually be running two autopot systems side by side -- an organic and a reg hydro set up, as I still have some of the BC nutes to use up.

Happy growing,
A*dame :cool:

[amsterdame]

THC - Yum!! That's an awesome looking plant ya got there! Thanks for the sneak peak into my future. :D

[Guest]

I would use some kind of thing to keep the water moving around in the resevoir like a Skimmer, airstone or a powerhead. It will keep things uniform. if it sits in the res. the last of the Nute Solution will be mostly water.

Blatant

[B.C.]

High ya Amsterdame, I think once ya go to oranics you'll never go back ! the flavor is so much better, I've used BC nutes. and they work well esp. the stable ph. This was after trying Earth juice... this shit had me pulling my hair out... you could NOT get the ph stable, come to find out the grow part of this stuff ferments and the ph goes crazy ! So after that I was a little gun shy about ORGANICS lol. hence the BC nutes. But I read so many good things about pure blend pro that I gave a shot. Let me tell ya the flav. is much better and no ph probs. either. Btw those autopots look like the shit. My space being limited I now use 4 gal. buckets filled with F.F. soil cut by a third with perlite. I use drip lines ( this lets the roots grow right to the top of the bucket ) connected to a cheap pump in a 14 gal. rubbermaid tub with a timmer on it. Sorry for the long post but I thought it worthy of telling cause it WAY out yeilds my hydro in the rubbermaids... sorry so long... I'm on that shit again !!! lol

[amsterdame]

Thanks Blatant, I'll look for something like that to circulate the rez nutes.

It's great to hear of your experience, B.C., glad you didn't hold back! :) So you moved to soil though...why?

yeah, I'm psyched to check out these autopots. I'm trying to find a balance between producing fine yields of quality bud and the energy, maintenance, and $ needed to do it. Once you mix the nutes for the autopots, you just let them go and feed themselves. No need to check ph or ppm levels after that. Then you just refill the rez. Anything to simplify the process without sacrificing yield or quality is worthy of attention in my book.

Peace,
A*dame

[Dr. D]

If u use an air stone in the res to keep things moving ul have the added benefit of xtra oxygen in the water hence bigger yields,try to get a ceramic one if u can not a normal fish tank air stone.peace

[B.C.]

I reckon I went to soil to simplify my situation, I use a room that's in an attic so the layout is like 10' long by probably 4-5' wide with a slant of the roof comeing down on one side ( pretty tight for big guy with a bad back ! ). So trying to get to the back to check ph, change rez...ect. in hydro was a pain, and when I first started I did some in soil just incase the hydro didn't work out :D . With 3-5 plants in rubbermaid tub DWC.they didn't yeild as well as one 4 gal. bucket with fox farm soil cut alot with perlite, esp. once the drip lines were started. So I put the whole thing in buckets with irragation lines running to each one. this is alot better way for me to fill my space ( I didn't have to leave a path to the back any more = more plants :D ) this also saves my back, after the initial set up that is lol. Now all I have to do is feed the rez. it's kinda like hy-soil-dro lol the plants really love it... Btw if you bubble your rez you'll still need to keep an eye on your ph with oganics it will slowly drift up. good luck what ever ya do. :wave:

[amsterdame]

Hey there, has anyone switched to hydro organics in the middle of the grow cycle, like going into flower? If so, what were your results? Could you tell the difference when you smoked it? Any reason you'd advise against switching in mid cycle?

Thanks Dr D. I'm a big fan of air stones and notice the cheap kind need to be replaced after 2 grows. I'll definitely try the ceramic.

I hear ya, B.C. about being kind to your back. :) I started with soil, had great results, but being safety minded, I didn't want to keep up with continually moving gobs of soil in and out of my house. I heard a grower got busted simply by having a rather large pile of potting soil with perlite sitting in his back yard. At least the coco coir is burnable. :D

peace,
A*dame

[Guest]

I haven't forgot about you guys but I am moving my office and my daytime connection is down for a bit.

I'll post some info tonight

Tex

[amsterdame]

That'd be dandy, TK. Would love to hear your take on this. :)

Smooth move be yours,
A*dame

[Harry Gypsna]

Hope the switch to organics works out 4 u

[B.C.]

I read a lot of good info. at og. on the things your wanting to know about not that T.K. wouldn't be smack on with his info. :D it's jus some times there's more than one way to skin a cat and it's best to check'em all out and see what works for you...
Btw, good point about lugging soil in and out of your house, this would never do in town. Thank god I live in the country ( where you can pee in your yard.... JLP's signature hahaha :o ) anywho hehe we've got a lot of flower beds, and a garden so it looks hunky dorry... jus what works for me.... good luck to ya :wave:

[Guest]

If your just switching your Nutes from Veg to flower I dont think you'll have a problem. Just be sure to flush before you switch, but that goes with every cycle. It should help in the taste department for sure.

Tex who? :wave:

Blatant

[GreatLakes THC]

Originally posted by Blatant
PH problems wont be a problem for Organic Nutes like Pure Blend Pro it comes with a PH buffer.

I use Ionic which has a buffer in it too. Never a burnt leaf, never a Deficiency. Green as green. I've really been thinking hard about using the PBP though. Once the Ionic is used up I'll switch. Is liquid Karma the only supplement you use Blatant?

GreatLakes THC

[Guest]

Nah man during the cycle I use a lil this a lil that. What I use is PBP, Liquid Karma, Silica Blast (look into this stuff), I ammend with foiar feeding of Nitrozyme. Michorizhae when I transplant. I just picked up some Hydroplex for a Bloom finisher. I'm gonna do some testing to see which is better. Hydroplex or Fox Farm

Blatant

[amsterdame]

Hey GreatLakes, good to see ya again.

Thanks for all these tips guys, and spotting for TK while his daytime connection's down. :) I'm off this week to pick up some PBP.

What does Silica Blast do for your garden, Blatant?

[Guest]

Silica Blast will strengthen your cell walls during photsynthesis and fortify the plant. Giving it the ability to handle stress like high heat, snapping of stems etc.... This stuff will also bump up the weight of your yield for the cash croppers. Not sure by how much cuz I'm not in it for the loot. I recommend this stuff to the noobs it will help with Newby mistakes.

Blatant

[bartender187]

Silica Blast also helps your plants withstand mold. Good shit :D

bartender187

[Guest]

Alright water babies, I home , I'm high, and thinkin I can type for a bit.

All great info from BC and Blatant and sounds like you were headin toward Pure Blend Pro from the get anyways so I assume you have some now.

It is an easy out of the bottle nute to get you feet wet with. I use the Pure Blend Pro Veg and flower but these are not stand alone contrary to what the pitch is. You definately have to us the Cal-Mag either theirs or someones because it is weal. Especially if you have a strain that eats that shit up fast and that varies. The Liquid Karma is killer but does have alot of heavy sediment that settle quick. I have airstones in my 20 and 2 in my 40 gallon res and it seems to cut down on that alot. I am about to try one of the large aquarium circulation pumps and drop it in there to see if it is more effective. I use the Silica blast but your moving off the "100% organic" fence, but not to bad. The Silica Blast helps improve cellular strength and vigor something like that. I use Bio Bizz Top Max as a bloom booster and it is really nice. Killer sugar coating on buds and leaves at like week three Super potassium rich stuff.
I have been overlappin my bloom and veg nutes a little right at the start of the flower cycle(12/12) till the second week then I flush and go to strait flower nutes.
I run the LK, SB, and Cal-mag all the way thru but I use the same amount of LK and SB but I add Cal-Mag based on the plants so it varies.
I start every new tank mix at 50% of the bottle no matter what. Then I bring up the level with primary nutes and the bloom booster in flower and primaries only on veg.
I think I will go back to the Pure Blend original veg and flower, still use the other ammendments the same. I'm lovin the Top Max and considered the full line until BG's tank took a shit and I didn't want to jack with it.
Metanatruals are next on my comparison list so we'll see.

ADamer the nutes are very forgiving and easy to fix if you to far one way or the other so don't be ascared at all.

Get ta growin

Tex

[tragic1]

Hey guys I'm using PBP and want to use the silica blast. Can I use that with the PBP threw veg and flower? Also what would you suggest I use along with the PBP in flower?

[amsterdame]

Excellent info all around. Thanks for tying it all together and adding a few more pointers, Tex.

I'll definitely have to supplement with a Cal-Mag as I've run into that problem big time already with my northernberries this grow. I've tried the epson salt water treatment with marginal results. Silica Blast and Bio Bizz are also on my shopping list this weekend.

Tragic, if you haven't worked with Liquid Karma yet, try it out. I use it thoughout the grow cycle. It packs on about another 15% of girth onto my buds. I'm totally psyched it'll work into an organic routine nicely. Also TK mentioned that the Bio Bizz Top Max gives buds some extra TLC for the THC.

I'll let y'all know how it goes. :wave:
A*dame

[Guest]

Yah tragic1 Silica Blast can be used up till flush time. In Flower I use LK, Silica Blast, PBP, and one of these Bloom Boosters; Fox Farm, Tiger Bloom Or Hydroplex, I may pick up some TopMax to see what the hubub is about.

Blatant

[Guest]

I have read good things about the Botanicare Hydroplex also and it's cheaper than Top max.

Foxfarm Bigbud or tiger bud, I think it is also

Anyways just ran by the house to take a bong hit and head back out

Tex

[Guest]

the thing that sold me about hydroplex was NPK of it. .5-4-10 , now hows that for a phosphorous boost! We'll see what she puts out. Plus you only use about 10ml. per gallon I think. Not bad at all.

Blatant

[B.C.]

I think you meant fox farm big bloom ( this is a tricomb maker trust me..) and tiger bloom, the big bloom is 100 % where as the tiger bloom is organic based ( and it's some thing you have to respect cause it's strong 2-8-4 ) any way I was wondering about this hydroplex is this something I've over looked in other words is it a old botanicare product like the power this and the power that ( which is a old vesion of the new scene... ) it sure looks good for when you first flower .5-4-10 with that much potas.the plants would recover from strech nicely and would probably finish them too. although somethin a litle higher in phos. would be cool also...

[B.C.]

also I was thinking about the use of L.K. ( and you can look into this e-mail american agr. ) to much of this is redundent when useing pbp cause it has the same things in it. grow on yall....

[B.C.]

I read alot of things about L.K. how there is a lot of the same things as pbp but the hormones are what makes the difference, some of the more important ones are cytokinis and auxins if there is one more than the other it will dictate how the plant grows ( roots or plant ) so they try to balance them and I think they done a purty good job cause it seems to me that what ever the plant stage of life it inhances it. For instace when I strance plant at flowering and I use L.K. the plants seem to strech a little more than with no L.K. also when I flower It's only after I've found out it's a girl I take clones and the ones I use L.k. on seem to contiue to flower where as the ones I don't seem to go back to veg real quick or quicker anyway... this stuff seems like it's the " BAM " of the grow world what do y'all think... ps. sorry for ramblin in your thread A-Dame... later

[amsterdame]

I'm psyched to start my organic hydro set up. I'll be doing either bogbubble and northernberry, with possible addition of a few ice girls to the mix.

Haven't found a local source for bio bizz or silica blast though. Any recommendations on the best place/s to order these products? Best price is a strong consideration.

muchas gracias! :wave: