Pure Blend Pro Info

[Guest]

PURE BLEND Pro ™
One Part, Stand Alone Hydro-organic Plant Food

PURE BLEND ™ Pro is a hydro-organic vegetative and fruit and flower formula. A specialty custom blend of organic and natural sources of the essential major, secondary, and trace minerals in 100% soluble form from the land and sea. PURE BLEND ™ Pro produces vigorous lush green vegetation and superior fruits, flowers, and vegetables. When compared to conventional chemical fertilizers, PURE BLEND ™ Pro will provide increased nutritional values and is a healthy, environmentally friendly alternative.

Here are only a few benefits of PURE BLEND ™ Pro. The user will undoubtedly
discover many more benefits in addition to the following:
• Essential elements are not derived from harmful chemicals such as a urea and high concentrates of ammonia nitrate.
• Eliminates the danger of exposing plants (and ultimately the consumer) to toxic heavy metals such as arsenic, mercury, selenium, etc. which often occur as contaminates in conventional chemical fertilizers.
• The organic components of PURE BLEND ™ Pro enhance uptake and utilization of plant nutrients.
• Plants acquire increased pathogen resistance and hardiness.
• Metabolic rate and capacity is greatly amplified enabling the grower to produce fruits and vegetables that contain greater amounts of minerals and vitamins that are crucial
for human nutrition.
• The budding, flowering, fruiting capacity of plants is greatly increased.

Derived From:
Fish meal, composted sea bird guano, sea kelp, spirulina, soybean protein extract, rock phosphate, potassium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, calcium carbonate, humic acid*, fulvic acid*, citric acid*, raw sugar cane*, Agrimineral 72 (silica clay extract)*, ami no acids*, B-complex vitamins*, and select botanical plant extracts*.
*Non plant food ingredients

PURE BLEND PRO ™ Soil Formula
Hydro-organic Fruit and Flower Soil Formula

American Agritech has specially formulated this organic bloom nutrient formula for plants cultivated in soil and for the final ripening of fruit in the last stage of hydro-organic gardening.

Cultivating fruiting and flowering plants in hydroponics requires less phosphorous levels than potassium and even nitrogen. In hydroponics, phosphorous levels that are too high tend to lock out calcium, magnesium and trace minerals. On the other hand, plants grown in soil need higher phosphorous levels due to clay colloidal particles that bind up phosphorous. Microbes in the soil also compete for the phosphorous.When cultivating fruiting and flowering plants in soil, growers usually need to double or triple phosphorous levels, unlike hydroponics, thus making the 1.5-4-5 formula ideal for soil applications.

[Guest]

Seeing as all of yah are very into believing that your nutrients are organic , and for the purpose of debate i have a question.
if PBP is actually organic, then how do you explain the ability to precicely measure your nute strength? how does your hoaglin salt meter (aka your "ppm, tds, ec pen or wand) acurately read a nutrient which supposedly has no salts in it?
fact:1 organics do not register on a tds/ec meter.
fact:2 the only organic solution by pb is the original, and their sea blast.
fact:3 neither of these(orginalpb/seablast) works on their own or combined for hydro.

ive kinda dropped out of the thread for a while, but after a new string of pms arguing to the contrary i kinda brushed up on the thread.bottom line is that if your pen reads a specific ppm that resembles a salt formula(chem) IE...300-500-1500ppm or tds, then there is a salt formula in your bottle.it is not the silica that makes it non certifiable its the hydro/salt/chem nutes.
dont believe everything you read.the correct name for the ingredients is a guaranteed minimum analysis. it suposedly guarantees you a minimum of at least said ammount of these specific ingredients. it is not a guarantee of all ingredients in solution. if it was organic your meter would actually need a new tip, cause it would be broken. for you to have similar ec strengths to a chem nutes then there is chem nutes in it.
i challenge anyone in here to get to 1350 ppm with two to three tbsp per gallon using guanos spirulina bone meal blood meal fish meal rock phos and so on , it wont happen. second try to run said tea into your hydro set up and watch in horror as you experience total nutrient lockout.
second of all go to the next national hydro convention(they are free to the public) and ask dr. Tule he will be there and he will tell you, cause he made it.
you dont have to like me , or the truth, but science and fact outweighs rumor and untruth everytime.hoaglin salt meters register salt formulas (metal salts)

do you need to flush your organics? yes!
organic or not metals dont burn.potassium/magnesium will not burn(your bowl wont clear) if they are in too high a concentration. nitrogen is also very harsh on the throat and lungs, all herb organic or inorganic should be properly flushed.
you guys who dont change your res will see an imediate increase in vigor and yield if you start to do so. every two weeks at the least. every week is better. a plant is the only orginism that eats and shits through the same orofice(roots) letting them sit in their own sewage for two months might not actually be ideal, but thats up to you to decide.
all in all this is a great thread,
respect
j.d.
have paid the price for the pbp and ran it, folks think that because i have a dissenting opinion i havent obviously tried their perfect solution. when in fact i used to sell the stuff for botanicaire.
for the better part of three years i had enough samples and freebies to do everything i wanted with the stuff. again im not claiming your stuff isnt the goods, doesnt taste great or have an organic feel to it.im not claiming that you all dont have great smoke, im sure you do. but if you all are running ppms over 400 which some of the folks in this thread are running 1350+ ,there is no way that fish meal and guanos +spirulina can do this. there is salt based nutrients in it. thats what chem nutes are. metal salts.
any use of a ppm or tds/ec meter with true organics is a vague educated guess at best. do you think that botanicaire doesnt want this product to be labeled certified organic? of course they would like it cause thats the in sales thing right now.
again you dont have to believe me, but try some fish/guano tea
in a bucket. let it ferment and bubble some air in it. mix it according to the instructions, in fact double or triple it. now with fish bieng from the ocean(salty) your gonna be in for a surprise. stick your meter into it. it wont register 2-300ppm more than your water out the tap. why is this? organics arent that salty.period...
metanaturals and earth juice(plus foxfarm bigbloom) are the only
truly organic nutes available. and neither works that well as a stand alone hydro nute. pbp is a blend of two botanicaire products.
one bieng the original totally organic pb. the other bieng the one part hydro product called power plant/flower. power flower/plant is a chem nute pb the organic and there you have it pbp.
they have done this with other products as well. liquid karma is a blend of the product blast off, and a few extra natural ingredients.
ive used all of their products and again dont believe all you hear.
buy this product because its available and it works, dont buy it to try to uphold your totally organic hydro reputation that has been established with your custies.
and by the way i dont agree. it cost to much for too little. ive achieved better yields and quality with salts in hydro, and better yields and quality with fish kelp and guanos totally organic in soil.
at the price they charge at the local retail per gallon you could seriously afford to try and experiment.
i get my information from treg. he is the president of botanicaire and has been with the company for over 15 yrs, i also have spoken with the creator himsself dr. tule and this is what they told me. if your local hydro guy tells you otherwise i would no longer take advice on these products from him.call the 1-800 number and ask why your ppm meter reads so acurately. they are not shy they are not trying to fool anyone the product is clearly labeled Hydro/Organic ,but you read it and are interpreting the definition differently thats on you. its a blend and they are not required by law to list all the ingredients.
in fact im all for it. i sold more of this stuff than practilly any other nutrient in my three years in front of the register.it works great and is user friendly, for both newbie or pro. if you want to get into the 2+ per light club this isnt the road folks. use it cause it works and the product it produces is quality not because your a stickler for hydro organics....


Take this for what it's worth but I read it and was alot more informed because of it.

Pirated from Rasta/JD on OG

Tex

[mrwags]

Wrong post

[Guest]

Aero 20 has 5 mist nozzles

Tex

[mrwags]

wrong area post (moved)

[Guest]

Post a pick over in the grow equip. forum.

Start a new thread there

Tex

[Guest]

Interesting read Tex and it does make since. Still seems strange though that American Agritech would put in there own 2004 Urban Garden Source Book page 66 in the FAQs.
Question: Which American Agritech products are completely organic?

Answer: Liquid Karma, Pureblend, Pureblend Pro, Clearex, and Activit are each completely organic.

Question: What should my ppm read during each phase of growth?

Answer: It is hard to get true reading when using organic nutrients.

Confucious says WTF.

[Guest]

I do know there is a difference in some organic certifications and being able to state 100% Organic.

I don't track the salt arguement and ppm determining organic content.

Now what will say though is I have got killer results using only trace amonts of nutes(300-500). Not a real significant increase as I've raised the nute levels.

It is also talking about using it as a stand alone nute.

Tex

[mrwags]

Originally posted by Texas Kid


Now what will say though is I have got killer results using only trace amonts of nutes(300-500). Not a real significant increase as I've raised the nute levels.


Tex


Are these your words Tex? You said that your girls were at 1300-1400 out of veg and then dropped to 1100 for first week of flower with a half and half mix of pbp veg and flower. So therefore the 300-500 you talk about was either in early veg or late flower correct?

Mr.Wags

[mrwags]

I still cannot get over the fact that after all these weeks of postings and readings and even a new organic forum page I'm right back where we started, At least I have come full circle to what Tex was saying in the beginning, Watch your girls,hell they'll tell ya what they want I don't really go by ppm per say I just do what they tell me and use the bottle as a baseline. This is what you told me Tex, And once again I thank You for teaching me something in a few weeks that has taken you a few years learn. There weeds for christ sake they grow wild you said. I'll get some new pics up tomorrow Tex a little short but just starting to bulk up. Have'nt had to slap'em any more since I quit trying to split atoms and let these damn weeds do what they have been doing for millions of years. Tuff Love I guess you can say. There freakin weeds, dammit that some funny shit.


Mr.Wags

[Okie grown]

PB reg. is totatly organic.But pbp cannot be omri cetified because there something in it that omri dont concider 100% organic (or some crap).But Texas kid can vouch for this pbp with cal-mag and liquid k is organic enouf.Throw in bio bizz top max for a top booster.And i dont think that combo can be beat.

[Guest]

It's much more effective to just watch them bitches. Problem here , add this and that.

I have tried so many variations wth the mix of PBP and as a stand alone nute without the LK, CalMag, Silica, Seaweed Blast, and bud booster it doesn't matter if you use a little or alot of the PBP, it's the ammendments that kick it up

Tex.

[GreatLakes THC]

Originally posted by Texas Kid
I have tried so many variations wth the mix of PBP and as a stand alone nute without the LK, CalMag, Silica, Seaweed Blast, and bud booster it doesn't matter if you use a little or alot of the PBP, it's the ammendments that kick it up

I've been thinking of trying PBP some time coming up, so this is great advice for me. DOing a great job Modding TK.

GreatLakes THC

[Guest]

very interesting and at the same time, "do not take what your read for the truth"
Do your research and decide what the fact's tell you.

I am not sure about the TDS reading of what you consider organic, as I take it that mean's what come's from mother earth, or from other animal's; texas kid?
Just asking.

I am not educated enough in organic's to argue, but how long does a organic reservoir take to stew before organic benefit's take place?

I am just wanting to further educate myself and understand thing's, weather I use them or not.

I am switching strain's each run, so I can not do a comparison from one grow to the next, but I have down two basically the same way wit PBP and result's have been okay, but I had mite problem's each time.

Just goe's to prove never thing they are gone even when they are, as they do return.
The borg live's on and on.

I ran 60 day's with out a change to the reservoir with a drip system, 20 gal res topped off with 200 plus gallon's of RO water in that time.

I basically started out at 1/4th strenth mix and worked up to full strength and then there was the scheduled additive's. Top of water was with 15ml of bloom mix up to day 40 for floral cycle. I am not saying this is right, it is just what I did.
TDS level's at a point was higher than what my meter read's, but the plant's seemed to love it and grow for me. The other reason I pushed it so high is because I was dealing with spider mite's and felt the needed all the help possible.

I see I found a site that offer's me a chance to learn more and grow better.

grow safe.
realhigh.

[Guest]

Pure Blend Pro is not 100% certified organic because of the addition of some of the components in Power flower and one other one that I have to look up that are not 100% organic sources. The readings on the PBP are much higher than the same mix of the original Pure Blend which is 100% organic. The higher concentrations of nutrients do not show on the meter the same way as with the PBP does.

I have reverted back to the original Pure Blend hydro formulas and the ammendments Cal-Mag, Liquid Karma, and Top Max as a bloom booster. I will also continue to use a little Silica Blast early to mid veg as well.

But my TDS/EC meter reads much much lower than the PBP equivilant mix.

I am also looking at doing a Metanatruals organic grow also in the next little bit. The best I can tell there are only two or three companies that have 100% certified organic regimes. Pure Blend(original formula), Metanatruals, and Fox farm all have a nute regime combination that can stay all 100% organic.

Still reading and learning myself so I will keep looking for the advantage over these bitches and pass it on.

Tex

[Okie grown]

bio bizz is omri organic.And so is age old organics.

[Guest]

Bio Bizz is great but I have been gettin wierd feedback from people using their whole line as well as from Bio Bizz distributors.

They have had a bad batch or something and have recalled certain batch numbers of their product. It seems that the smell of rancid or ritten meat has been a common problem lately for alot of Bio Bizz users(not just BG). Several claim the smell has caused undo attention being brought just from the smell and try to dispose of the reservior mixes.

I only use the Topmax and not the whole line so I personally have not experienced the smell. I tseems to be the combination of the nutes that cause the smell and not the individual additives.

Age Old Organics is on my list for research as well as Metanatruals

Tex

[highlife4me]

TK: How often I find the info you post useful. Been getting ready to do the switch to hydro/organic (been growing in soil), so I've been reading up a bit on everything I should probably know. I didn't realize that I wouldn't be able to use a tds tester (effectivly) in a hydro-organic setup, but I was on the edge of buying one... should I not? I will have access to regular PB for veg (if I like), but I was planning on using GH Flora Nova Bloom for flowering... I'm guessing that's a chemical organic mix (like the PBP, as you mentioned); will I still be able to put a tds tester to proper use? And will the part organic affect the readings? If so, what PPM would you rec. with the Flora Nova Bloom? Almost PMed this question to ya, but figured your answer may provide help for others, as well. Thanks!

[highlife4me]

Think I found the answers out for myself; sorry for intruding on this thread. Feel free to still answer if you like Tex, but after searching the treads I know I'll still need that tds tester, and that the flora nova is indeed not all organic... which I should have already known since I found a previous thread of my own where that was already mentioned LOL Gotta love a stoner :) Actually, I still do have a question... however it is probably a very very newbie(ish) question: How exactly do you flush a hydroponics system? Do you just add a product like clearex and wait so long before you change the reservoir? If so, how long do you wait after you add it? I may be way of track, but I'm hoping you (or anyone else) can put me on track. Thanks!... again!

[Guest]

Flushing is done many way's and I am sure some will say that is wrong and this is right.

I am not sure which is the best way or the right way.

Some like to start a flush cycle of water a few week's before harvest. They just drain out nutrient's and refill with ph corrected water and let the plant's feed on this. The first few hour's of it being used it will increase in TDS. Some will run the first batch of water 24 hour's, drain it out, refill with fresh water and start feeding again.

A healthy plant can survive a few week's on water alone with the stored nutrient's that are in the plant.

I tired the clearex product, not impressed with it, it might be good on the removal of nutrient's from medium, but I do not think it flushed the plant's all that good, but then maybe I did not wait long enough for them to plant's to use up stored nutrient's.

The idea of the flush is to have the plant use it's stored nutrient's up before harvest occur's so that they are not smoked.

I do not like a two week flush as I feel I am takeing the food away to soon. I like to push them as long as I can then I pour a gallon of water down each planter, drain the reservoir, refill with plain water, and run the system like usual. I watch the TDS to peak, then I drain and refill with fresh water again. It take's a few time's of doing this before TDS level's in the water get to a low and stay there.

Some day a grower will get the meter's to measure NPK value's and take them before the flush and then again after to find exactly how long one need's to do it before the plant is clean. I just feel it is only a matter of day's in good condition's and not week's.

I am sure the brand of nutrient's is a biggy in this one as I am sure some leave more behind than other's.

I am sure there are alot of grower's that do not flush, but I have tried non flush and flushed bud with PBP nute's and personally I feel the flushed smoke's better and is much smoother. Taste and aroma seem's to be stronger in the flushed bud also.
Just my observation on it.

grow safe.

realhigh.

[amsterdame]

Hey there, TK, I'm not sure where my original thread went (organic convert needs help) but I wanted to let you know that the switch to organics (PBP) when I went to 12/12 has worked out beautifully. Kudos and thanks to you and the other fine members who helped me get there! :yes: I wanted to post some pics earlier this week to show some results, but there's a problem in doing that which hellinksi and I haven't been able to resolve yet.

In the meantime, I have been able to load those pics in my gallery, (just can't post em in a thread). So feel free to stop by there and take a look. There are pics of one of the NorthernBerries and two of the BogBubbles. Pic quality isn't the best due to cell phone camera, but you'll get a good sense of how the switch is going in the garden.

Peaceful growin!

A*dame :wave:

[phillykid]

Hey there TK

you said "I have reverted back to the original Pure Blend hydro formulas and the ammendments Cal-Mag, Liquid Karma, and Top Max as a bloom booster. I will also continue to use a little Silica Blast early to mid veg as well."

does this mean just the Original pure blend? Or do they make a specific pure blend hydro. Cause I have the original stuff and they say it's to be used as a supplement in junction with a hydroponic fomula so I thought there might be micro deficiencies or something? I'm also planning on using top max, LK, and I still got some cal mag left and some Fox farm Big bloom for a kinda later flowering addition. Notice any defs with the original?

Also I notice that the package of PB I have says 100% natural, the FF Big Bloom says this as well. The EJ is the only one out of the 3 that actually has the ORMI listing on it, is this just because they paid to have it on there and the FF and PB are also 100% organic but they just didn't want to pay to have it listed with ORMI?

Here's a link I found:
http://www.isserpr.com/omri_listing.htm
"“Although organic is defined by the U.S. Department of Agriculture as a product without toxic pesticides or fertilizers, bio-engineering or ionizing radiation,” he added, “regulations allow a product that is just 70 percent organic to be labeled as organic even though the other 30 percent could be anything. In order to be approved by OMRI, 100 percent of product ingredients must meet the organic standards.”"

peace

[Guest]

I am using the "Original" Pure Blend because it is 100% natural and the Pure Blend Pro was not as much so. I think they basically add "power plant", 'blast off" and "power flower" to the original reducing the inert nutes in the Pure Blend first and adding those three, you get Pure Blend Pro. I may be wrong but that's the way it was explained to me in laymens terms by the rep.

I think the "OMRI" certification is alot like an "ISO", it requires endless documentation and adhering to standards of production that may be cost prohibitive for some manufacturers. There are only a couple that have the "OMRI" certification.

I think the original is taking much less in the way of ammendments and the plants uptake rate seems to be much greater with less added.

Tex

[SuperToker]

TK, are all those ammendments really necessary? Or is some skimping or replacement okay? Right now i've running 10 gal res dwc @60ml pbp veg and 2 tsp of epsom. Is this a decent feeding for them? They are about 8" tall, and got some roots going good now. What else do I need to add to make it complete. The wallet is thin on this one, what should I be using?

[King]

What makes something organic? The carbon molecule? That's the impression I was always under.

I don't exactly buy this stuff about PBP being a mixture of PB and Power flower. Doesn't make sense to me. Being PBP uses different guanos than PB.

Let's look at epsom salt. It is 100% natural, yet try sticking you PPM meter in an epsom solution. Mine reads ERROR, which means its over 9999PPM at the manufacturers given dosage.

Now look at the phosphates in PBP. There's 4 different phosphates. PBP wouldn't be a stand alone without them. These come from minerals being mined. And like epsom salt, would cause you PPM to be high.

Am I totally off in my thinking here?

[phillykid]

TK
Oh, thanks, I was thinking that the pb would lack some micros because they say you can use it as a stand alone in soil but you use it to supplement in hydro but maybe the amendments you use take care of all the micros with that LK. So what amounts have you been using as a base line to see how they work in your system? Ebb flow right? What would you reccomend for dwc buckets, 5 gal, not recirculating? For early veg, late veg, early and late bloom? I'm stoked to try out that top max and dwc whohooo. my pal's gettin some seeds and i'll be ready to go.

The organic chemistry of organic doesn't work well when applied to this sense. Just think of it as naturally derived ingredients and don't lose sleep over it. If we use the organic chemistry definition of anything with a C molecule, well gasoline is just hydrocarbons, diamonds are compressed carbon, plastic is also hydrocarbon polymer etc.
thanks

[King]

philly.............uh yeah. I'm not talking about diamonds or gasoline or plastics. We're talking about organic nutrients. You're reply was of little help. Thanks

I had just gone through and listed all the carbonates and phosphates with links and definitions. To make a long story short, Internet Explorer shut down, and I lost it all. I will not do it again atleast right now. It took me too long, and I'm way too pissed off right now to do it all again.

Calmed down alittle so here goes. F**K, that was shitty. I'm gonna do it in sections now


Okay

Pure Blend
Seabird guano, bat guano, earthworm castings, fish meal, sea
kelp (ascophyllum nodosum), humic acid, fulvic acid, citric acid,
raw sugar cane, Agrimineral 72 silica clay extract

Pure Blend Pro
Fish meal, composted sea bird guano, sea kelp, spirulina, soybean protein extract, rock phosphate, potassium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, calcium carbonate, humic acid*, fulvic acid*, citric acid*, raw sugar cane*, Agrimineral 72 (silica clay extract)*, ami no acids*, B-complex vitamins*, and select botanical plant extracts*.
*Non plant food ingredients

If PBP is PB with other ingredients where did the bat guano and earthworm castings go??????

Now we'll look at the carbonates and phosphates.

[Guest]

I couldn't get Pure Blend Pro to stand alone. I was using the same if not more of the ammendments that I do now. Liguid Karma and Cal-Mag minimum is what I used in conjunction with it to get any kind of balanced regime. Some Cal-Mag hog strains like my TW and the Grapefruit this round need or seem to benifit from a little hotter mix even up to 15-20ml/gal.

I'll get something down for ya Philly, let me think about for a bit, i'm blazed

Tex

[King]

Phosphate rock
http://www.wpi-inc.com/pci/rockphos.html
Rock Phosphate is a granulated soft and hard rock phosphate that is essential in building a biological soil. It acts as a catalyst in the soil, which in turn increases plant growth. Rock Phosphate also helps with overwintering.

Pacific Calcium's Rock Phosphate is 100% natural, and is listed by the Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI) for use in production of organic food and fiber.

Potassium carbonate
http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/P/potascar.html
chemical compound, K2CO3, white, crystalline, deliquescent substance that forms a strongly alkaline water solution. It is available commercially as a white, granular powder commonly called potash, or pearl ash. It was originally obtained from wood ashes or from the residue left in pots after certain plants, e.g., kelp, were burned in them. It is prepared commercially chiefly by electrolysis of potassium chloride to form potassium hydroxide, which is then carbonated (e.g., by adding carbon dioxide gas). It is used in the manufacture of soft soaps and glass, for washing wool, and in the production of other potassium compounds.

[King]

Magnesium carbonate
http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/carbonat/magnesit/magnesit.htmMagnesite does not ordinarily form good crystals, but can make up a substantial portion of some rock types. It forms commonly from the alteration of magnesium-rich rocks during low grade metamorphism while they are in contact with carbonate-rich solutions. Magnesite has the same crystal structure of calcite, hence its inclusion into the calcite mineral group. Many of the properties of magnesite are either identical or similar to those of calcite. However, the magnesium ion does not allow the carbonate ion (CO3) to interact as easily with cold acids, as the calcium ion does in calcite. This provides the best means of distinguishing magnesite from calcite. However, dolomite(MgCa(CO3)2) can be almost indistinguishable from magnesite.

Calcite, aka Calcium Carbonate
http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/carbonat/calcite/calcite.htm
Which gets its name from "chalix" the Greek word for lime, is a most amazing and yet, most common mineral. It is one of the most common minerals on the face of the Earth, comprising about 4% by weight of the Earth's crust and is formed in many different geological environments. Calcite can form rocks of considerable mass and constitutes a significant part of all three major rock classification types. It forms oolitic, fossiliferous and massive limestones in sedimentary environments and even serves as the cements for many sandstones and shales. Limestone becomes marble from the heat and pressure of metamorphic events. Calcite is even a major component in the igneous rock called carbonatite and forms the major portion of many hydrothermal veins. Some of these rock types are composed of better than 99% calcite

[King]

Seems to me these all occur naturally. Maybe Botanicare isn't using natural potassium carbonate in PBP?

[Guest]

Got me, yall put way more thought into it than I do. Send them an email and maybe oone of the "scientist dudes" will respond. I did a while back but it was a more general question.

I watch my plants and tweak the nutes on the fly more than anything. I set out to try and stay as organic as I could and work it out as I went. I just got real comfortable with Botanicare stuff and how the plants reacted to different mixes, cycles, temps, etc..

I'm going to run Metanaturals sometime soon if I get up the courage. Changin a good thing is tough but I want a broader working knowledge of a couple different nutes out there now.

[King]

Cal-Mag
derived from calcium nitrate, magnesium nitrate, and iron edta. Defintely not organic after some reading. I'm having trouble finding plain definitions on these. But I am getting alot of chemical plants wanting to sell these chemicals. And I'm seeing alot of danger warnings about handling these chemicals.

I'm starting to rethink my use of Cal-Mag.

Both ingredients calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate are shown on a chemical list.
http://www.akpetrochem.com/chemical_list.htm

[Guest]

The vague descriptions is all part of the fun.hehe black magic and all

Maybe I'm remiss in my duties but thats way more info than found on it. I would also assume that bulk "chems", "ferts", or "nutes" are distributed through traditional channels. The fact that a chemical company reps a product shouldn't automatically be a red flag.

Tex

[phillykid]

What I meant to say is that you're using the organic chemistry definition of organic which isn't quite the same as the laymans term for organic.

Organic chemistry is the chemistry of compounds containing carbon. This includes stuff like a combustion reaction which is what burns gasoline to provide energy for your car. See, it doesn't neccessarily have to do with organic in the laymens sense of all natural. All I'm saying is this definition doesn't fit in with the definition that we want to use in growing cannabis.

Why does one want to use all natural products in growing?
Some because they are earth friendly, and some want to support companies that have a environmental conscience.
Some because they believe that there are synergistic effects in mother nature between the whole ecosystem which is rich with microorgansims. And this isn't creatable when using chemical fertilizers.

No matter the reason, the usage of organic is in the sense of creating an environment that somewhat mimics mother nature. And in hydro organics I think folks are trying to get the best out of both worlds, while compromising as little as possible. sorry if you thought it was a wise ass remark.

All those rock phosphates, calcitic lime, none of it contains carbon yet they're approved from ORMI because they came from natural sources.

Bottomline
A Chemists definition of organic or organic compounds, isn't the same as a farmers definition of it. I think this is what's confusing.

peace

[Guest]

My brain is going to explode....lol

Tex

[King]

lol with Tex,

I know the feeling.

I understand now philly. :yes:

[Guest]

Pure Blend
Seabird guano, bat guano, earthworm castings, fish meal, sea
kelp (ascophyllum nodosum), humic acid, fulvic acid, citric acid,
raw sugar cane, Agrimineral 72 silica clay extract

Pure Blend Pro
Fish meal, composted sea bird guano, sea kelp, spirulina, soybean protein extract, rock phosphate, potassium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, calcium carbonate, humic acid*, fulvic acid*, citric acid*, raw sugar cane*, Agrimineral 72 (silica clay extract)*, ami no acids*, B-complex vitamins*, and select botanical plant extracts*.
*Non plant food ingredients



How much of the difference between the two formulas are the ingredients found in power plant and power flower?

Tex

[King]

Good question Tex. I can't answer, I don't know what the Power series is derived from.

[phillykid]

Now that I look at the difference in the list of ingredients in PBP and original,

spirulina, soybean protein extract, rock phosphate, potassium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, calcium carbonate, amino acids*, B-complex vitamins*, and select botanical plant extracts*.

now look at what's in cal mag plus:

CAL-MAG Plus ™ also contains iron, boron, zinc, manganese, molybdenum, copper, cobalt and iodine, beneficial vitamins, 20 essential amino acids and select botanical plant extracts to help in the production of fruits and vegetables in fruit and flower bearing plants.

seems like all the macros and micros would be there with either the original or pro formula in conjunction with cal mag. maybe the pro has more P and K in it cause of the carbonates but I think you could add a little dilute bloom booster to it if needed.

cause I got PB original and I ain't spending no 30 bucks (for qt of both PBPs) for some spirulina and soy protein!!!!
peace

[GratefulPhish]

PB0 - i experienced deficiencies..
PBP - did not experience any life threatening defeciancies....
PBP + LK + CM - none

and I can't tell the diffenrence in and I usually can (proper flush always inportant":) )

[phillykid]

yeah PBO definately doesn't have enough Mg in it to be used as a stand alone, not even in soil, I had to use epsom salt or cal mag. Hav eyou tried the PBO with LK and cal mag? just wondering

[Guest]

Maybe it is something to do with feeding schedule's. I feed my plants contantly with PBP and did not have sign's of any deficiencies.

I did add 1/4 tsp of epsome salt per gallon weekly as I feel most all nutrient's only have the bare minimum of Mg that MJ love's so much.

I have not tried Cal/mag yet, but felt I should this grow, but then if I look at my last two run's I see no reason for it.

I did run into problem's with continual feeding the coco fiber mixture I use, so I made it a bit more like a 60/40 mix cocofiber/perlite and seem's to be good. I will still keep using LK with PBP as they seem to work well together.

stay safe and grow the same way.

realhigh.

[King]

My conclusion is PBP is not organic.

I found this little article on the web. Wish I would have found it sooner. It's about organics vs inorganics and sums things up pretty well.

http://www.adsfocus.com/bostongardens/detail.cfm?id=1186&catid=14&webid=1

After reading this, PBP is not organic. Coming from natural sources, maybe. Organic, nope.

At this point I'm wondering how effective pure organics could be in hydro with reservoir changes. I'm going with phillykid and gonna say an organic/inorganic mix is desirable in hydro. Pure organics wouldn't have time to break down to feed the plants. A medium strength inorganic feeding, with organics, that would slowly be broken down and made available would seem optimal.

I'm gonna stick with PBP supplementing with PB and seaweed as my base.

[Guest]

Okay, ture ogranic's in the growing field is still abit different from country to country and state to state. If all natural is oganic, well artifical indoor lighting take's out indoor organic gardening.

Hydro ogranic is a new term to cover this, " it mean's all that can be done organically is done organically" it does not say it is organic growing, nor is it claimed to be 100% organic.

As I alway's understood the commercial ogranic's, any thing taken from mother earth and is not processed by man is organic. Oganic soil is a living soil of organisim's that keep the soil alive as they feed and grow.

Hydro system's will never make ogranic if they are drained and changed weekly, as it has been said organic's take some time to stew to get thing's going.

I do not see organic's working in hydro if the grower take's and drain's and change's the reservoir every few week's, but that is my opinion.

All I know is PBP nutrient's go bad when stored over 80 degree temp. After they are opened they have one safe place to stay good, refrigerator, at least in my home, so that is were they are. They also started putting on the bottle a warning" not good after one year from this date, so they do have a self life.

When they go bad, well it take's the plant's, so keep them storred properly.

grow safe.

realhigh.

[Guest]

When the US allows up to 30% unknown chemical sources and still be called organic. As long as you can meet or excede 70 natrual organic sources your alright.

I use the Pure Blend original now and it seems to work better and requires alot less during my cycles than PBP

Tex

[mybeans420]

so are you not using pbp at all now?
or are you using the pbo in conjunction with pbp?

[Guest]

realhigh,

Organic-hydro is just using organic nutrients in hydroponics. Who certifies what substances as organic is beyond me.

"Bio-ponics" is when you allow bacteria to thrive giving your res it's own little eco-system. There are no water changes or res cleanings. It's like keeping fish tanks or koi ponds. Beneficial bacteria keeps your water clean and healthy just like the bacteria in our mouths.

I think by just not rinsing out the res with chlorinated water, bacteria will stay alive. I dump out my buckets every 2 weeks but I don't wash, wipe, or rinse them out. I premix my solution in the holding tank and let it sit for a few days to get rid of the chlorine.

* I have a question for you guys/gals about bloom boosters. I am using PBP with LK, CM, and hydroguard. My garden store has so many products I cannot figure out this from that and the descriptions are sometimes vague. Would anyone list some bloom boosters like top max(they don't carry it) that I could use? Thanks.

[Guest]

melvin I have run both system's, even made a bio filter for DWC tube that ran just fine, but in the end it was still root problem's.

I just want to understand what it is about and the benefit's to ogranic over other nutrient's.

Is it a mental thing by the user, or does the plant actually grow and produce better with organic's compared to other nutrient's?

In all right's I have created a bio field in my drip system, I call it a living reservoir, because basically that is what it is.

I have to hassel and go purchase my water and lug it home, so I do not like res change's as this mean's a few trip's, so I try not to mess with drain and refill's.

Most all have their own idea's as to what is best and what nutrient's do the best in certain system's. I ask to be critizied in a way, do not react well to it, but I am not correct nor perfect, just want to learn and see if what I am doing is wrong or right or to much. I do like the KISS rule of growing.

grow safe.

realhigh.

[Guest]

Try Hydroplex from Botanicare, they should have it and I have heard positive things about it.
Overdrive from Advanced Nutreints is a killer phos and potash load early in flower(not organic)
Green Fuse makes one as well but I can not think of the name of it . Earth Nector, Tiger bloom, Kabloom from GH(not organic), I think all have one.

RH, I'm not sure if this is an answer but, I think the organic growing is becoming more and more popular because of growing heath concerns surround the intake of chemicals in the body. Whether that's valid or not who knows but people are more heathly oriented and like the idea of only natrual derived products in the daily routine.
Does it grow better, faster, stronger buds? maybe and maybe not. I have grown both ways and side by side and notice a few subtle differences but not much.

Beans, I am using PBO grow, PBO flower, LK, Cal-mag, Silica Blast, and Top Max. Not using any pro right now,

[SuperToker]

Why using pbp orginal tex?

[Guest]

I have been a medical user for over 20 year's, so I know how smoking the bud effect's the body over time.

I smoked crap for year's not knowing it could be better, than growing my own med's I found I did better than most all other's, comparing to black market bud, and I knew how and what was done to mine.

Not sure why, just do not feel GH was the nutrient for MJ, it work's great, now even better, but for some reason I felt it had limit's, so I moved on to another.

Now I started using PBP and got nice result's, improved the method of prunning some, got a bit more. I did not get it prunned as I wanted, so next time I will do better, and the next time better than that, unless I find a limiting factor in PBP, which I do think is there, but might be approved upon with other additive's.

I do appreciate everyone's time in reply's. I just thought hydro was the fastest growth rate until I seen living organic soil grow just as well as mine did. I have spent year's learning what I know and do, not ready to just drop it and go learn the total ogranic thing yet. I just dislike the learning curve and so/so harvest until I get it all balanced and growing right.

A Merry Xmass to All, and safe holiday travel's.

realhigh.

[Guest]

Can anyone tell me what does your TDS run using PBP in 12/12?

What range should I look for?

I've got a few LSD in a tubbler... running about 2/3 strength from the recommendations on the bottle... my PPM is around 2400 but the plants seem to love it.

[mrwags]

Maistre,
americanagritech I'll let you fill in the w and the .coms so that I don't get in trouble but this is to them directly and have charts and faq's to answer. He is what they say:


Seedlings 500 ppm
Mid Size 900 ppm
Mature 1300 ppm
Fruiting/Flowering 1500 ppm
Aggressive 1800 ppm
Super Aggressive 2400 ppm

Hope this helps and have a great season.


Mr.Wags

[Guest]

Thanks mrwags...

I'm running bout 2250 with PBP flower... Liquid Karma, Hydroplex... Cal-Mag in a tubbler with a few LSD in it.

[Guest]

You are setting in the general ball park of how mine work's. My meter is old and cheap, it works' up to 1999ppm's, so after that it is mathmatical guesstimation on my part.

Yes my 12/12 PBP mixed at 30ml a gallon with LK at 10ml a gallon with Hydrogaurd at 10ml a gallon all seemed to cause me to peack near 2400 to 2600ppm's.

I push vegy PBP on average up to 1600ppm's, near this time it is close to 12/12 time, so I start flower out at near 1600 to 1800 and increase it so that by end of stretch they are at peak ppm's on the nutrient solution. I had my reason's to push the high ppm's and all worked for me, but I had bug's attacking the food source of the plant's, so I just pushed high ppm's like never before, maybe a waste of nutrient's, but I did make it to harvest with my biggest yield ever, part was change in strain I do admit.

I will say I only seen leaf tip burn once or twice throw out the entire grow, then is was very minute at that, so you are pretty safe with your TDS from what I know.

Keep safe and all that.

realhigh.

[mrwags]

realhigh your input is very much appreciated. Weeks away from 12/12 so this helps alot.


Mr.Wags

[Guest]

I just had to switch nutrient's, went from PBP to Ksalt formula.

I have had real bad luck with keeping PBP stored correctly and not going bad on me.

Again some how I failed, or it was bad when boughten, but I am not going to fight for more this time, just switch to what I know and it work's just fine for the plantt's.

I might try and gamble with the bloom mix, but if bad from shiipping than I am just in for a major nutrient lock up and shot down of the root system.

Merry Xmass to All.

realhiigh.

[notpot]

I've just started my first aero system, i've been running it for about 12 days. I just read yesterday on the og growfaq you have to dump out the res and start over every 1-2 weeks due to salt buildup and parasitic bacteria growth and whatnot.
I was wondering, if when using organic nutes such as Texas Kid's mix (pure blend original, liquid karma, calmag, silica blast) if the salt buildup is an issue? Also, if the res is kept at optimal temperatures (66-72F) and an anti-pathogen (SM-90) is being used on occasion, is there any risk of bacterial/fungal infection if the res isnt dumped and changed. This is a 25gal res and its just hard for me to fathom wasting $15-20 in nutrients and supplements every 2 weeks.

[Guest]

I have not had a problem with salt buildup and I don't even use SM-90 in my regime as you do.

Res. change every two to three weeks to be safe. I have never gone any longer so I don't now of any ill effects as a result.

Get ready to use some nutes my friend. My plants (20) drank around 350 gallons of nutreint enriched water last flower session. That's alot of topping off.

You shouldn't have any problems at all and sometimes you can overthink it, I know I do sometimes.

Tex

[mrwags]

notpot I read in a thread that we must understand that our lovely ladies eat and shit in the same tank. This is why it is important to change your res atleast every 2 weeks if you are using a 25 gallon tank. Take care of them and they will take care of you. Money is not an issue when you think about the big prize (Big Ole Floppy HOOT sorry Buds) for spoiling your ladies. I use Hydroguard instead of the sm-90 and must say I truely love (thanks Tex) the Botanicare Line of products. Good Luck. Post up some pics.


Mr.Wags

[notpot]

ok so basically a 25gal tank is a big fat waste for a 25 site veg aero setup

[Guest]

Not at all, a 25 gallon res is perfect for a 25 site aero. You would be suprised how much it takes to keep circulating at the right/optimum levels.

You'll be in great shape

Tex

[Guest]

So Organic Nutes can be used in say a pre-built system like a Aero20 or Aero 36? How does the nutes work with the filter bags for the pumps? Do they clog up or is that not a factor. I have no idea as i am using General Hydro line for the Aero unit. Let me know from the country of Texas ;-) thanks Jubei

[Guest]

There are not that many solids and or sediment that builds to bad. I would still rinse the filter element frequently. I haver even eliminated it all together and it didn't seem to matter to much. The pump still just kicked it up the tube. The nozzles require a little more TLC though. They can clog easily.

I add a shot of my grow nites sometimes to the cloner in the last week before transplant and they seem to like that as well

Tex

[mrwags]

I use a powerhead in my tank to circulate the mix and tested each nute individually before this latest grow to see what got caught in the filter and found Liquid Karma was the only additive to be trapped and I mix well in a seperate container before adding to the res.


Mr.Wags

[notpot]

ok well I just did the math and its going to be $10-13 per res fill. I guess it will work out about as much as the cost of dirt and all its amendments.

i dunno about you guys but i have all kinds of floaties in the res when i shine a flashlight in i can see them everywhere. also a fine sediment lining the whole res. i dont have a powerhead or anything providing constant mixture, just a 400-500gph pump and the return line, and i mix it up manually pretty much daily. what size powerhead/res do you use mrwags? i got a powerhead a while ago and that shit was weak

[Guest]

A bubble wand/stones works well also. Floaties on top are cool because your pump pickup is on the bottom.

Tex

[Guest]

Well I wish I could say it can be done, I mean I have done it, a full complete grow with PBP nutrient's and did not change the reservoir, but I also had a good bacteria field established, but for the biggest part it is highly recomended to drain a system regularly to prevent a build up of problem's that could occur. It can cost you the grow or major set back in recovery time and is not recomended for new grower's as even experienced hydro head's have trouble with it.

Now the first run I only drained the vegy mix as that cycle was ony 2 week's long, refilled to bloom nutrient's and would have went the distance but I some how grapped the wrong jug and poured crap in as top off, so a drain and cleanning flush was in order, but that next refill completed the next 30 day's of the floral cycle.

It is called reservoir managment and how the life cycle in it is maintained. Plant's will expell waste and roots will die and all create's a bad bacteria field in the water. Organic's seem's to work a little with this, at least I think so, but with the added bio field in the system I was able to go the distance with a 20 gallon reservoir.

The other reason I had decided not to drain is that I topped off over 180 gallon's in the bloom stage, so if I did it the drain refill when original volume was reached, well that would have been an extra 180 needed to complete the cycle, wow did I do my math right?

180/20 gallon res = 9 time's I would have had to refill, so 9 x 20 new fresh gallon's of RO water would = 180, so that would mean a total of 360 gallons for the bloom cycle, and I had 18 plant's in the system.

Hummmmmm, that is alot of water, so just say one way use a bit more than the other way.

At first it seemed strange to leave it all in, but to me organic's is just starting to work after a week or so and I just felt it was wrong to drain it away and the plant's just drank up the water so I just kept going with it.

In many way's I had many thing's wrong in the garden, did it aid in the reservoir's survival, I do not feel it did, but all finished well enough for me.

grow safe.

realhigh.

[Guest]

I noticed on a new jug of PBP Bloom there is and asterisk with the following text:

*If using reverse osmosis water, it is recommended to use 1 tsp (5mil) of Cal-Mag Plus per gallon (4 liters) of water.

My last jug did not have that info on it.

[Guest]

RH, you are right on the money with your water calculation.

I run a 3x3 with (18) 5.25' pots/plants and during the flower cycle alone i go through 360-375 gallons of water but I only completely clean my tank 3 times during that cycle.

I change once at around 3 weeks again at 6-7 weeks and once to setup flushing. I started adding 5 gallons of full strength nute water by just topping off the res. every couple of days to keep the water level good in the res.

They are some thursty bastards I know that

Tex

[budwoofer]

Do you guys flush with pbp? As in feed only ph water without nutes during the last week or so? Is it noticeable in the taste of the buds if you feed full strength till chop using pbp? Thanks Keep smokin

[Guest]

Botanicare makes a flushing agent called "Clerex" and have used it off and on to see if there is any noticable difference between it and just strait tap or r/o water.

Not much difference that I can tell but tou are pretty effectively flushing with either method.

When you run right up to the end with nutes the smoke can have a minerally sharp taste and a harsh smoke and will typically leave a white ash burn. You can water cure to leech out the nutes and that has proven to work very well but you loose alot of bag appeal and smell when you do it that way.

Tex

[mrwags]

Now I know this might sound crazy but I have a question,during the end of my last run I cut off a little bud and stuck it in my microwave to do a quick dry (have found a better way now) but when I turned it on after a few seconds sparks went everywhere,I felt this was from the metal in the nutes causing the sparks thus showing that a flush with organic nutes is necessary to get the metal's out? Just for shits and giggles I did the same thing after I flushed and chopped with no sparks in the microwave. Am I crazy or does this make sense?


Mr.Wags

[dubmantx]

hey tex... crustaceans eat and shit through the same orafice too ;)

[SuperToker]

i use clearex to flush and it works very well, and i notice quite an improvement in finishing up compared to just ro water.

[deadheadohio]

I always use warm water to flush and don't ever have any problems. I have been using pure blend pro in coir I add mycorhizae ti the coir and use silica during veg and regularly give plants hyrozyme and liquid karma . I was wondering if I could benefit by using any thing additional

[Guest]

Cal-Mag would be a good ammendment to your feeding schedule. I have found that most strains require alot more calcium and magneseum(sp) than what is in the bloom or the grow mixes from Botanicare.

You might also try Hydroplex or similar as a bloom booster as well in flower. I usually hit them at about week 3 thru week 6.

Good growin

Tex

[Guest]

Good read TK
I am currently using FF nutes. But am thinking of going toward the organic side of things. So been reading a lil bit about EJ. And found that it seems to be pretty good stuff. Some ph probs. But very ez fixable things.. TK what do you think about EJ as comared to what you use? Just curious. Again thanx for the good read..
And i hope you if you get a chance to check out my grow. TK, And leave a few words. Would be nice coming from someone like you.. peace..

Sack's First Outdoor Grow (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11794)
Newest pics of our grow as soon as the site is fixed.

sack :friends: :canabis: :joint:

[Guest]

I have read alot about the EJ but do not have any personal experience with it. From what I have read it is comparable to the PBP but without any significant ph buffers like the PBP.

The one thing I rarely if ever have to worry about is the ph levels, very forgiving with PBP.

Tex

[Guest]

Nice TK thanx for the Info..
Now i am kinda stuck. As im not sure wether to try out EJ or PBO.. i will do more research.. again thanx TK.. peace..

Sack's First Outdoor Grow (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11794)
Newest pics of our grow as soon as the site is fixed.

sack :canabis: :joint:

[Guest]

I got in on this post a little late. TK I would like your take on the Triflex line of nutes. I have used it on two grows with good results but not exceptional. The only other additive I used was liquid karma and clearex for flushing. When I used the triflex in a flood and drain setup I had wild ph fluctuations which really made for a laborious grow. I then switched over to a dwc method with a recirculating resevoir that fed a tub of eight plants. The ph was much more stable than in the previous grow. I contributed this to an increase in dissolved oxygen at the root zone.

[Chiefsmokingbud]

I've gone on the assumption that PBP is organic based and not 100% organic. Do i care....no. I used to be a die hard 10+ year organic soil grower but when i switched to hydro.......100% organic is a pain in the ass. I had nothing but problems and the fact you can't accurately measure ppm of organic put me off.

[Guest]

Hey chief, good to see you!
I agree anything that raises ppm's to 1000+ is not 100% organic.
I don't even know how close to organic it is but IMHO it is as close as I have been able to get.
The question I think is not "is 100% organic" but is it close enough given it's feasibility, no one I know is breaking yield recolds with EJ in a hydro setup but I have not seen it all.....not by far. The ph is unstable without a substrate and a nutrient that buffers and can sustain a high level of bioactivity.
If a bubbler reservoir is changed every 10days then are any of the slow release elements even broken down and delivered?
So far the bio-buckets and even the aquaponics have caught my eye.

Peace

[Lucas]

> fact:1 organics do not register on a tds/ec meter.

I disagree, the water soluble part of an organically derived mix WILL register some amount of electrical conductivity

> The readings on the PBP are much higher than the same mix of the original Pure Blend which is 100% organic.

I agree, PB @15ml/gal used to read about 600ppm @.7 conversion, the new PBPro version reads over 1200ppm @15ml/gal

http://www.altgarden.com/site/organics/pureblend/PBPRODUCTS.html
"Pure Blend is a custom-blend of the rich organic ingredients. When mixed with purified water and added to a reservoir or soil, these liquid formulas will enhance quality and quantity of your plants. The (.5-.5-1) Metabolic Bloom Formula will increase the number, size, and quality of blooms and fruits While the (1-.5-1) Metabolic Grow Formula will produce larger vegetables with a superior taste and appearance."

it makes sense that PB Bloom whose NPK is .5 - .5 - 1 reads less strong as PBP Bloom whose NPK is 2.5. - 2 - 5

> I think the original is taking much less in the way of ammendments and the plants uptake rate seems to be much greater with less added.

I respect your "less is more" experience that PB works better for you. Do you grow ebb flow in rox, or do you use a denser medium?. PB is definitely a much weaker product than PBP, and I agree PB and PBP need epsom or some other Mg source added, such as Cal Mag or Sweet

I even agree that it would be practically impossible to use too much PB, it is so weak.. its meant to accumulate in medium, not for hydro..

> our lovely ladies eat and shit in the same tank.

actually, I used to think that too, but it turns out, they dont shit. I know of many reports of growers who dont change their res for the life of the crop, they just add more nutes to keep the TDS around 1400...

it seems changing the res every 2 weeks is an utter waste of nutrients. I even know of folks who have had successful crops for 3 bloom cycles in a row, with the last cycle yielding more than the first.. not because of nutes, just better tweaking of the veg time and plant density.. as an aside, more nutes most definitely does not translate to more yield..

> anything that raises ppm's to 1000+ is not 100% organic.

I dont think that necessarily follows. You can have a weak organic nute like PB, which contains practically nothing!, just half a percent of Phosphorous. Of course it will read weak on a meter, when you compare it to another mix, whether its organic or not, that has a 2 percent spec for P. That is 4 times more Phosphorous, so it conducts more electricity.

I dont consider PB a relevant recipe for hydro, only for medium like promix or coco, where the nutrients will accumulate. Even organic nutrients contain the elements the plants absorb in the form of "salts".

my vote for a working hydro organic formula is GrowGreen's Formula, 15ml/gal PBProBloom, plus 5ml/gal Cal-Mag

if anyone has a simpler organic derived recipe that works in deep water culture or ebb flow, Im interested. DWC uses stronger nutes levels than can be achieved with the non Pro version of Pure Blend..

If you have access to Metanaturals, its a carbon copy of Gen Hydro's flora series, but with an organic label..

just my opinion
Lucas

[sysprog]

Nice post Lucas. I believe the only reason to change ones resevoir is one can not control root rot or diseases.

[1TWISTEDTRUCKER]

just doing research 4 my first grow,want to go as organic as possible.i'm an over the road truck driver @ right now i'm only home 2days every 2 wks but going 2b getting a run that i can get hm most wknds @through the house 4 a couple hrs 1 or 2 days a wk looks like bigtokes biobuckets are just what the doctor orderd 4 me.any opinions,sugestions would be gr8ly appreciated.texaskid i've read alot of ur stuff since finding i.c.ifind u2b very helpful.thx.much love bro.

[greenambitions]

Has anyone else experienced this PBP go bad when improperly stored like realhigh mentioned happened to him? Is there a particular way to tell if it's bad, or will it only show in the plants?

I ask because I'm about to start a second run using PBP. This run will use the same bottles of PBP Grow and PBP Fruit & Flower. There was an approx 5 week period between runs due to unforeseen circumstances. I have always stored them at room temperature.

Thanks for your thoughts.

ga

[8bitNES]

i've been told pbp will store for about 18 months. i personally wouldn't store unopened bottles for much more than a year because i'm factoring in the organics but thats just my own way.

its interesting to see that others are using pbp with cm and lk. i too have noticed that pbp is just not enough stand-alone. i no longer use lk in veg but i also use hydroguard or hygrozyme every once in a while.

my personal recommendation: don't buy a too big of bottle of pbp than you can use within a couple grow cycles. i've had a bottle a little too "long" and by the last of the bottle there was considerably more of a salt buildup.

does anyone have any experience with sweet? bio-chem is not my area of expertise but to me it sounds like the other side of the "missing link" coin that lk is on. at least thats the effect i get with botanicare marketing.

i hope all this is relavent to the thread.
8bit

[purcellville]

8Bit,

I am also runing PBP with LK and CalMag as per a recipe of a close friend. She has strongly urged me to consider using Sweet with 6.0 water for the final week. So today I ordered up a bottle in prep for the finish. I also added some hydroguard to the order as I think it might be worth trying.

Sorry back to the sweet. My friend swears it will mellow out the smoke, improve curing, and make an all around smoother smoke. The results speak for themselves and I will humbly walk in the footsteps of talented growers as I learn my craft.

[filimagno]

for 1 time and ever.....PBP,biobizz,plagron,b iosevia of ghe,and other fertilizer pushed for completly natural are not this things for real!!!...are not 100%organic!!and are not allowed for biological agriculture!!!

in the EU....we allow only stuff made from natural compuonds without chemical extraction..it means NO ACID,NO HEAVY BASE AND NO REAGENTS...ONLY POWDER STUFF AND IDROLISIS....OR WORK FROM BACTERIA AND ENZYMES.

if they say : NATURALS,ORGANICS,BIOLOGICAL,B IO.....IT DON'T SAY NOTHING!!!

IN UR COUNTRY I DON'T KNOW THE EXACTLY LAW...BUT IN MY COUNTRY "100%ORGANICS DON'T SAY NOTHINGS TO ME IF THEY USE A REACTION TO LEAVE OUT SOME AMINOACIDS OR HORMONES FROM NATURAL COMPOUNDS!!!

HOPE IT'S CLEAR...I'M NOT REALLY ABLE TO SPEAK ENGLISH...BUT WHEN I READ THOSE THINGS IT MAKE ME SO NERVOUS...AS THE DAILY FAKE MARKETING OF THE DUTCH COMPANIES

[Reorx]

gotta say I have been using PBP for 3 years and it works great. The only down side is that its low in mag so I use cal-mag. Great shit, always does wonders for my plants.

[Flutch]

thanks for a great read guys, TK you are someone I will be checking up more often thanks for all the great advice.

[frostyy420]

Just started using PBP and my PPMs are all over the place. Just wondering if any one else has had this problem with PBP nutes.

I'm using RO water with PBP Grow, Liquid Karma, Cal Mag Plus, and Silica Blast.
System: DWC 5g bucket(non recirculating)

[haze12421]

thanx for the blend

[greenlove]

ok just to be clear. can i use just pbp bloom at 15ml/gal the whole way from begining of veg to end of flower? and add in some cal mag plus and that should be fine?

[3dDream]

ok just to be clear. can i use just pbp bloom at 15ml/gal the whole way from begining of veg to end of flower? and add in some cal mag plus and that should be fine?

Green you wanna bring them up slowly and you might want to use a bit more, but 15ml pbp bloon and 5 calmag (less if you have hard water) seems to be the ratio. I am doing 18 pbp, 10 liquid karma, 10 sweet, and 5 calmag right now with nice results.

Here is a nice table, but the nutes are too high do 1/4 to 1/2 and watch the results:

http://www.americanagritech.com/product/product_detail.asp?ID=1&pro_id_pk=90

Good luck!

[bounty29]

I'm doing 15ml PBP, 5ml CalMag+, and 15ml LK right now with what I think are very good results. One of my plants looks like it wants more though, so I think I'm going to bump it up to 20ml PBP for my next feeding and see how it goes.

[greenlove]

is it safe to use sweet with the calmag and tap water? also i notice almost everyone uses liquid karma. is it really worth buying?

[3dDream]

is it safe to use sweet with the calmag and tap water? also i notice almost everyone uses liquid karma. is it really worth buying?


I use calmag + sweet with my tap water (water is about 120ppm). There is a little mag in sweet, but I think sweet mostly a flavor enhancer. Some people use molasses instead. I have also read that advanced nutes "sweat leaf" is similar, but changes the flavor.

I also use clearex, silica blast, and hydroguard too.
:joint:

[greenlove]

sorry about all these questions (and thank you very much for the answers, you guys really help alot) but, do you think it would be wise to use less calmag because the sweet has mag in it already? lets say instead of 5ml calmag+, use like 3-4 ml of calmag and 5-10 ml sweet? or would the extra mag in sweet not hurt with the regular dosage of calmag+? i am slightly confused.

also i have a bunch of canna pk 13/14 from my last grow and was wondering if it is safe to use with pbpb, calmag+, sweet, and hydrogaurd? i am very cautious when it comes to using new nutes, and using things in conjunction properly. i dont want to over do it with all the different products.

this is what i have come up with so far.
pbpb:15ml/gal
calmag+: 3-4 ml/gal
sweet:5-10ml/gal
hydrogaurd:10ml/gal
pk 13/14: .5ml/gal (in flowering. maybe up it to .75-1ml/gal later on)

do you think this is a safe usage of nutes or should i change somthing (maybe not use the pk?) again, sorry for all of the questions, i just want to make sure im doing this right. any advice is greatly appreciated. (and im sorry if this post is a little crazy i just have such bad memory i forget what i write as im writing it, so sorry if i repeated myself)

one more thing, LK and silica blast, will i do fine without them? or should i invest in some of that to? it sounds like i might want to get some LK but i am low on cash so if i dont need it

[3dDream]

sorry about all these questions (and thank you very much for the answers, you guys really help alot) but, do you think it would be wise to use less calmag because the sweet has mag in it already? lets say instead of 5ml calmag+, use like 3-4 ml of calmag and 5-10 ml sweet? or would the extra mag in sweet not hurt with the regular dosage of calmag+? i am slightly confused.

also i have a bunch of canna pk 13/14 from my last grow and was wondering if it is safe to use with pbpb, calmag+, sweet, and hydrogaurd? i am very cautious when it comes to using new nutes, and using things in conjunction properly. i dont want to over do it with all the different products.

this is what i have come up with so far.
pbpb:15ml/gal
calmag+: 3-4 ml/gal
sweet:5-10ml/gal
hydrogaurd:10ml/gal
pk 13/14: .5ml/gal (in flowering. maybe up it to .75-1ml/gal later on)

do you think this is a safe usage of nutes or should i change somthing (maybe not use the pk?) again, sorry for all of the questions, i just want to make sure im doing this right. any advice is greatly appreciated. (and im sorry if this post is a little crazy i just have such bad memory i forget what i write as im writing it, so sorry if i repeated myself)

one more thing, LK and silica blast, will i do fine without them? or should i invest in some of that to? it sounds like i might want to get some LK but i am low on cash so if i dont need it

green, you really wont need the sweet until you start flowering. If you are low on funds just buy the sweet later. Also, you really only need 4 bottles (imo), liquid karma, pbp grow, pbp bloom, and cal-mag. Everything else is a bonus. In some cases you can get the nutes cheaper at your local hydro store due to the shipping charges online. You shouldn't pay more that 65usd for the (4) 1 quart bottles online.

If your water is very hard you might not need cal-mag at all (so I have read). I am using coco and my plants received every watering:

germination: 1ml LK + .5-1 ML pbp per gallon (150-200ppm)
first true leaves: 1ml LK + 2 ML pbp per gallon (200-300ppm)
2"-3": 2ml LK + 3-4 pbp + 1 cal-mag per gallon + 2.5ml hydroguard (300-400ppm)
4"-7": 2-3ml LK + 5-7pbp + 1-2 cal-mag + 5 silica blast (500-600ppm)

That where I am right now and everything is nice and green and tall. basically I ratio every off the pbp. If the plant looks light green I up the pbp and adjust the other nutes to the ratio.

Hope this helps!

[greenlove]

thanks for the response 3d, i already have the sweet so i guess ill just go pick up some LK and possibly some silica as well.

will i be ok without the LK for a while? or should i get it quickly??

[3dDream]

I would think that you will be fine. Cal-mag and pure blend pro grow are fine for veg. Pbp is a fert and liquid karma is an additive.

[BudZad7]

:wave: Hi All ! Very good info !!!
Please help! Is this a good mix: PBPB+ LK+ CalMag+ Sweet+ Carbo Load powder+ Sensizym+ Pot O Gold.....this is for bloom, but decided to add Big Bud
powder one time......should maybe not use BB and use Top Max instead???

the BB slightly burned some leaves in 1 day of use, then flushed with RO water and Carbo Load and Sweet......hope that helped.....noticed that Top Max has
15% sea kelp(ascophyllum nodosum),and 30% humic acid (leonardite)...also, that the older sample paks had Liquid Karma 1-1-2 + 20% humic acid, the new
LK has .1-.1-.5 + 0.01 humic acid, so WHAT the F__k happened!!!??? :cuss:
WATERED DOWN SO WE HAVE TO USE MORE AND THEN BUY MORE!!! Then people say add Top Max, another companys product, so there's the 20% humic acid added back, then the added bonus of 10% more!!!! Is the above mix a good mix?? Please Help!


:wave: Peace!

[TheOneWill]

When you use PBP, what else you use with it?
Liquid Karma, Cal-mag?

[drew87]

rraaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r, i use it, like a glove

[Robin_of_Loxxy]

i used it straight for the beginning of flower, and so far it is working real well. I am now adding flouraliscious bloom at week 5. In a week I will cut it to just some sweet and flouraliscious and then just the sweet on the last week.

[Hash Man]

yes i use all of them together with sweet. im trying house and gardens shooting powder as a transitin before flush this time....

[joseaf]

When you use PBP, what else you use with it?
Liquid Karma, Cal-mag?

I use all of it. I use Cal-mag and Karma during the flowering phase.

[junior_grower]

Cal mag is not organic.


I use with PBP, Nirvana, Subculture and molasses, foliar spray with growth plus. I have results that are almost equal to AN DWC.

[Jim Dunlop]

Cal mag is not organic.


I use with PBP, Nirvana, Subculture and molasses, foliar spray with growth plus. I have results that are almost equal to AN DWC.

CalMag+ is organic. Not sure where you found out it's not. Read the back of the bottle.

[Retardo Motabon]

I taper off the cal mag after week 3 of flower and then move to using sweet for weeks 4-7. I switch to blackstrap molasses after that as sweet is so high in ppm's I find it hard to leach the soil properly if I use it to far in.
10ml calmag/gallon H20= 31
10ml seet/gallon H20 = 38

Sweet has plenty of Mg and is fine as an MG source during flower but the cal mag has substantial amounts of Calcium and iron too.
Too offset the reduction of Ca and Fe in my solution using sweet and no cal mag I use 50/50 r.o. to water. There is plenty of calcium and iron from the tap.
Tap water will also help in avoiding low pH in your solution thus a pH up compound becomes unnecesary.
WHen I use 15ml PBP Bloom, 5ml CaMag, and 10 ml LK with r.o. water the pH drops to about 4.4. and 3-4 mls of pH up are necessary to hit 5.8pH.
The same dosage of nutes with my tap water brings the pH to a perfect(for me) 6.0.
Since realizing this I stopped using pure r.o. water once plants are large enough to handle full strength nutes. Full strength as in 15ml PBP not the 30ml they recommend! I avoid adding any pH up by using less r.o. (and alot less water to make the r.o.).
I've been running a solution of 1000ppm's throughout with good results.
THis time around I am pushing at 1600ppm's until week 7 to see if I gain anything from it. So far, nothing gained. It's still only 40 days in so I'll taper off next feeding.

Regarding LK, I generally only use 5ml per gallon when feeding at 1000ppm's, using more has added nothing I can see feel or taste.

I feel it is best to use equal amounts grow and bloom the first two weeks of flower rather than halting the grow abruptly at the switch to 12/12.
I found when I didn't continue with some grow at the start of flower nitrogen levels weren't maintained by week three forcing me to use cal mag further along.
I'm moving to the opinion that phosphorous boosters are a good thing with the PBP line as the grow is darn light in phosphorous and the bloom is a bit light too.
My gut tells me that there isn't enough P in the line. When I have started flushing in the last three weeks before harvest I get P deficiency in the plants too fast and I can't help but feel it causes a loss in yield without a P additive. I was adding extra P with Roots Extreme serene 0-2-2 but have been unimpressed by the product. i have used increased levels of pbp bloom this time but will try using kool bloom next time.
The problem lies in letting the nitrogen dip, plant gets N deficient and more N is then needed further into flower. It is well known that high N levels decrease yield and can delay finishing times...and thats a problem!
Here is an offbeat question regarding the PBP line.
Has anyone noticed the buds tasting like hops or beerlike when not flushed properly? I swear just by that taste I can tell someone used PBP and didn't flush when smoking bud other than mine. I've gotten noticeably higher yields with some other ferts but the flavor and potency are superior to lines i've achieved higher yields with. As its for me and close friends the yield is no longer important to me compared with flavor and head of the herbs.
Well I had more to say then I thought! Happy growing peoples!
RM

[plantman969]

whats up. I am a fairly new to personal growing and have started out with a full line of botanicare nutes, plus a few additives.

Nutrients I Run - For a 250w Conversion (MH flower/HPS Bloom) 14gallon, DWC rubbermade tote w/two 15" air stones with a water rez level of 9 gallons for 3 plants. in a 2x2x6 Homebox S. 4" 170cfm carbon filer exaust, two 4" 80cfm inline fans for air intake straight from humidifier, and two 6" clip fans for interior air movement. temps 67 night - low 84-87 high day with a low - 35% humitity all times. RO or Distilled Water

how can i improve or got any ideas on helping me with better flowering nutes or somthing you have used or have noticed benifits from.



Botanicare:

PBP Grow - From 5ml pre-soaking rockwool for seeds - end of week 2 15ml grow/bloom of flowering

PBP Bloom - week 1 of flowering 10ml grow 15ml bloom till buds start to form the only bloom - 1 1/2 week before harvest

Calmag - 2.5ml gal presoaked rockwool for seeds - harvest never going higher than 8ml

Liquid Karma - 15ml presoaking rockwool for seeds - 12ml gal veg 15ml gal bloom - harvest

Sweet - 5ml presoaking rockwool for seeds - 10-12ml for veg, 12-20ml bloom to harvest - Dont care great for seed germination and all the way through imo helps keep plant nice and compact during veg use both calmag and sweet keeping it close to 60 - 40 sweet-calmag

Silica Blast - Start adding at 2.5 ml a gal after fist set of tru leafs. Great natural ph Up No more than 5ml a gal at any given time.


Advanced Nutrients:

B52 - 1ml a gal for presoaking rockwool for seeds - 2-4ml a gal veg to transistion of 12/12 stop for 3 weeks and back to 2-4ml a gal bloom

Voodoo Juice - From start to finish/flush Great ****ing Stuff dont care whtany one says. its all in how you apply it i think. Granted i wasted a good chunk of change but i feel now every crop could benifit. I took some trial and error but imo there are a few ways one can benifit from it. at first
i went with the 30ml a gal for the full res and went half stength on nutes worked great no **** 3 hours i noticible root growth the next day double.
But 30ml a gal is way too much. i could explain this prosses of trail an error but that is for a diferent post. In the end i mix 1-2ml PER PLANT in a liquid siringe and then suck up some rez (filling the 60ml siringe) water after a day of the nutes sitting in the tote mixing - make sure pH is between 5.5 - 6.3 I then shake siringe and inject 20ml directly to the base of plant and rockwool. after this i usully add 10 - 15 ml a gallon based on total rez gallons not the number of gallons with mxed nutes so for me 90ml every rez change - for me 3 times a grow. baby-veg, veg-end of first month bloom, and bloom to flush

Sensizym - Next purchase and will use with every rez change, when needed, and for flush

pH Up
pH Down

Nutes I am going to purchase:
Collosal Bud Blast or Wet Betty Organic
Big Bud.


Nutrients must be mixed i a certin order so as to not lock other nutes out.
THIS IS THE BIGGEST AND BEST THING I HAVE LEARNED IN HELPING ME MAINTAIN MY LEVELS. If mixed in the right order very little pH up or down will be needed. For me after mixing I have to use a couple drops of pH up because of PBP Grow or Bloom when added lower pH significantly.

This is my mix and order for current veg and transition: Last two gallon mixes

RO Water - pH 7.1/75f/.32ec/220ppm/TDS 7
then add
10ml Liqiud Karma- ph 5.9/75f/.46ec/320ppm/TDS 226
+
10ml Sweet - forgot to get readings
+
7ml Calmag- pH 5.91/75f/1.38ec/960ppm/TDS 713
+
2ml B52- pH 5.8/75f/1.5ec/1040ppm/TDS 753
+
2ml Silica Blast- pH 6.5/75f/1.5ec/1070ppm/TDS 771
+
15ml PBP Grow- pH 5.35/75f/2.71ec/1890ppm/TDS 1440
my gallon mixes before transition

Transition Mix: Best Mix Yet
1 Gallon RO Water - ph 7.27/76f/.16ec/120ppm/TDS 12
+
12ml Liquid Karma- pH6.38/74f/.48ec/330ppm/TDS 241
+
12ml Sweet- pH 6.02/74f/.94ec/660ppm/TDS 487
+
6ml Calmag- pH 6.04/74f/1.47ec/1020ppm/TDS 763
+
10ml PBP Grow- pH 4.99/74f/2.38ec/1660ppm/TDS 1220
+
3ml Silica Blast- pH 5.73/74f/2.41ec/1680ppm/TDS 1310
+
12ml PBP Bloom- pH 5.23/74f/3.18ec/2220ppm/TDS 1790
+
2 drops pH Up- pH 5.51/74f/3.18ec/2220ppm/TDS 1790
Final Readings.

I start my rez with low nutes and add 1/2 - full strength nutes premixed in gallons as the water level lowers to my add back and if i feel the plants are getting to manny nutes i just take out a 1/2 - 1 gal rez water and add some pH balanced RO water then go back an hour later empty a gl of rz water add some pH down and dump it back in.

this is what i am working with hope it helps i will throw some pics up soon

OH DONT USE ROOTS ORGANIC TRINITY IN YOU DWC FOAMS/BUBBLES AND THE PLANTS DONT SEEM TO LIKE IT - BUT I BET IT IS GREAT IN SOIL.

[plantman969]

1)Tap water will also help in avoiding low pH in your solution thus a pH up compound becomes unnecesary.

2)WHen I use 15ml PBP Bloom, 5ml CaMag, and 10 ml LK with r.o. water the pH drops to about 4.4. and 3-4 mls of pH up are necessary to hit 5.8pH.
The same dosage of nutes with my tap water brings the pH to a perfect(for me) 6.0.

3)I feel it is best to use equal amounts grow and bloom the first two weeks of flower rather than halting the grow abruptly at the switch to 12/12.
I found when I didn't continue with some grow at the start of flower nitrogen levels weren't maintained by week three forcing me to use cal mag further along.
I'm moving to the opinion that phosphorous boosters are a good thing with the PBP line as the grow is darn light in phosphorous and the bloom is a bit light too.

The problem lies in letting the nitrogen dip, plant gets N deficient and more N is then needed further into flower. It is well known that high N levels decrease yield and can delay finishing times...and thats a problem!

RM

1)True, for me i run the RO/Distilled water, but mix nutes as to not upset the ph flux so drasticly. Tap water is also a great way yo add natural ph up to your rez.

2)In which order and how do you mix your nutes? I read that the best way to take full advantage of your feeding program was to manage your nute mixing. So you would mix your additives/macros LK Sweet Carbo Load B52 ect, then your NPK Nutes PBP grow/bloom then your benificials voodooo, taranjula, pirana, sub -b sub-m ect. In doing so you will not lock any nutes out in the mixing process. also benificals should be added after the rez and nutes have had time to mix properly. I have had great succes with this and RO water statrting at ph 7 ending in 5.3-5.9

3)Also true you should definitally use PBP Grow in the first 3 weeks of bloom or till buds start to form. To get over the phos problem i was told using B52 after buds start to form will help this problem.

4)Side Note Try Sweet in veg i think you will like it. Just use a little less calmag. i use both together - sweet because it says if used in veg it will help keep plants from becoming soft stemed and lengthy. And my plants are short stocky bushes.

[SkizOflan]

I have a question that pertains to the adding of nutes to a 'no-changeouts' recirculating hydro system. I'm running a 26 site bio bucket setup w/150gal of recirculating (50:50 r/o:tap) water and plan to keep the same (well, addbacks aside..) body of water throughout the entire grow by allowing beneficials to colonize within the lava rocks and do the maintenance work for me ;)

In reference to plantman969's #2 answer above, how would the proposed ordering of additives/nutes translate when the water is never 'changed-out' or 'mixed'? Would it still be as important..?

Second, i have two 12" waterfalls falling from 4" pvc pipes into my res. In the past, i have simply poured the various nutrient solutions (in the order of M/G/B + additives) directly into the waterfalls letting the water mix a little in the res while making sure the ppms don't get out of hand in the res 'chamber' (max variance +350ppm) before the mixed solution is sucked out of the res by the pump and into the pvc manifold and out the buckets. Do you think i should dilute them in water first like plantman969? I really don't think it's necessary given the nature of the system, but if anyone knows anything please share.. Also, do you think i would have seen better results had i started with my additives first and then done the M/G/B like plantman969 proposed?

One more question, i haven't chosen a nutrient line yet with this system. Does anyone know anything specific about beneficial bacteria and its preference in nutrients? I've run a previous bio system with Advanced Nutrients M/G/B + B52 + Hydroguard + Carboload + SugarDaddy + Mycorhizae and everything turned out great but i'm always interested in feedback from all the other bioneers out there..

Keep it live.

[plantman969]

1)I have a question that pertains to the adding of nutes to a 'no-changeouts' recirculating hydro system. I'm running a 26 site bio bucket setup w/150gal of recirculating (50:50 r/o:tap) water and plan to keep the same (well, addbacks aside..) body of water throughout the entire grow by allowing beneficials to colonize within the lava rocks and do the maintenance work for me ;)

2)how would the proposed ordering of additives/nutes translate when the water is never 'changed-out' or 'mixed'? Would it still be as important..?

3)i have two 12" waterfalls falling from 4" pvc pipes into my res. In the past, i have simply poured the various nutrient solutions (in the order of M/G/B + additives) directly into the waterfalls letting the water mix a little in the res while making sure the ppms don't get out of hand in the res 'chamber' (max variance +350ppm) before the mixed solution is sucked out of the res by the pump and into the pvc manifold and out the buckets. Do you think i should dilute them in water first like plantman969? I really don't think it's necessary given the nature of the system, but if anyone knows anything please share.. Also, do you think i would have seen better results had i started with my additives first and then done the M/G/B like plantman969 proposed?

4)One more question, i haven't chosen a nutrient line yet with this system. Does anyone know anything specific about beneficial bacteria and its preference in nutrients? I've run a previous bio system with Advanced Nutrients M/G/B + B52 + Hydroguard + Carboload + SugarDaddy + Mycorhizae and everything turned out great but i'm always interested in feedback from all the other bioneers out there..

Keep it live.

1)Funny you say that, because the longer i go with out a res change using benificials in my dwc it seems the plants like it more. But instead of lava rocks go to the pet store and in the fish supplys section pick up some bio-balls they do the same thing but are not as sharp.

2) Ordering your nutes does a few things. First certin nutes are locked out at different ph levels. So if you mix a nute and swing your ph ethier to high or to low you may lock out important nutes. Have you ever taken readings after each diff nute is added to the mix in your res or a gal? If so you have an idea what each nute will do when added to what - ie types or water; RO Tap Distilled, water from your res with nutes in it. To bring my ph down i add grow/bloom nutes or ph down to my res water. To bring it up add a little tap water or ph up. Also the type of water determens how the addtion of anything will affect it. So say Distilled water and RO water have nothing to stop or carry additives or nutes when mixing. Where spring water or tap water has nitrates, and minerals calcium an so-forth, just as your res water. What this means is when i mix my nutes i use RO/Distiled. So if i start with RO/Distilled ph 7.2/71f/.24ec/110ppm/TDS 29
and add any N-P-K (i use PBP Grow/Bloom) my readings will look somthing like ph 4.35/71f/1.2ec/523ppm/TDS 368
but if i added my Liquid Karma Sweet or Calmag to the mix the reading would be less drastic so it would look more like
ph 6.56/71f/.87ec/424ppm/TDS 329 and would slowly reduce with the addtion of the next nute. So by the time i were to add my N-P-K the water now has additives to stop the drastic swing in ph. This will just dampen the swing so to speek. You also need add so Silica blast. This is great for strengthen our plants and add a natural ph up to you mix. I use 1ml per gal to 3ml per gal never more than 5 in drastic cases. So my order is
Liquid Karma
Sweet
Calmag
Silica Blast
PBP Grow/Bloom
-
ether Prozym or Myco Madness depending on stage of plant.
So if your intial mix is done right then no problems IMO.

3)M-G-B (Micro -Grow-Bloom correct?) is ordering. Just add your other additives first then MGB it would be the samething. Also for me i run a dwc like i said and just would not want to pour any nute striaght into my res as my roots are sitting in my soup mix. I dont run a recurculating system but as long as the nutes have time to mix properly before the introduction to the root zone then there should be no problem.

4) i am no expert but i can tell you what i know/understand of benificials.
I doesent matter the nute line just what benificials you are going to use (though they really seem to like Liquid Karma). Me i started with AN Voodoo Juice (to spendy and has half the benificials as the other:dueling:) and now use Humboldt Nutrients Myco-Madness (the other: Also seems to be them most compleat benifical with the most bactieria). Also i think the way you apply the benificals can make a difference aswell. Say pre-mixed, mix directly into the rez or applyed to the root base directly. I do all three. I dont know how true it is but i think i read somwhere man made salts will killl your benificials. Some say only apply in the first weeks of veg and bloom, but i add them when ever i think the plant might need a boots. Usually you want to add your benificals after your res has had a day to mix properly. So dont add them when you add nutes. Either when you add back plain water or pre-mix with water out of res then add back. Again i do both, i have also mixed 10ml Voodoo Juice with 60ml water mixed (shook really hard) and shot the mix into the base of my plant via hydroton and rockwool just as i was watering them alowing the mix to drip down the roots and colinate them before mixing with the res. With the myco-madness i pre mixed 1 tbls in with 3 keg cups of res water and poured into rez along with pouring a little over the roots. Another good idea is to use a enzyme product when using benificals, helps break down organic matter and dead roots making readaly avalible nutes to your plant cleaning the roots and alowing the benificals to better colinate the roots.

go to youtube and type in hydroponic secrets - It is an Advanced Nutrients Promoted show but take the concepts of each product and apply those to any other nute line. Explains Organics, enzymez, benificials, teas , foilar sprays any product they have. So any product an company has just a slightly different combo of ingredeints and price range. Me I am a Botanicare fan and run there whole "organic" line, with a few additives of my own.
PBP Grow/Bloom/Soil
LK, Sweet, Calmag
Silica Blast.

AN:
B-52, pH Up/Down, Wet Betty Organic, Organic B

Humboldt Nutrients:
Prozyme and Myco-Madness Soluble

Tryed Roots Organic Trinity but it is not good in hydro applications.

Also made my own foilar spray out of:
LK - Trinity - Prozyme - seemed fine.

other than that these are my findings and clame nothing hahaha.
just a few things that helped me in my adventures in cultivation: the ups and downs of plant life.:yeahthats

[LosGanjales]

I am using ReadyGro coco and am about to switch over to using PBP for veg. I run ph anywwhere from 5.8 to 6.1.

Just curious whether anyone has noticed a sweet spot pH for the PBP. I will also be using LK and CalMagPlus about twice a week.

tia

[rrog]

I'm coming from a chem fert recirculating drip. 9 gal res for 3 plants

Is anyone using PBP +LK + CalMAg, etc in a recirculating drip system? I'd like to find a drip-friendly nute combo that I can expand the benefitial microbes with in my existing system (with some mods).

The PBP was recommended as possibly a good base system for "organic" drip

Thanks

[BigForest]

anybody use cns17????????????????????

[Thundurkel]

Cal mag is not organic.


I've heard this before and I'm using the Organicare OMRI Listed Calplex and it's great! From what I read on the bottles this new line they call Organicare is kinda bullshit they just changed the formula a bit and instead of Seabird Guano it's Composted Poultry Liter and the Grow Bloom Boost setup is pretty much PBP Grow Bloom and Liquid Karma so I'm not sure how much more organic if at all it is compared to PBP. I can say that it's given me the healthiest group of plants I've grown and at 10ml per gal and then following the bottles for the additives the PH is PERFECT with tap water! I'm using the whole line at the moment and the additives are REALLY GOOD!!!!

Check out these Super Silver Haze ladies that were using FloraNova and Floralicious Plus
http://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=1087&pictureid=9061
these were week 5
http://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=1087&pictureid=12858
here's week 7


Now look at this SSH that was flowered at the same height as those girls and grown in the same coco mix but using the Organicare line for the first time, kinda burned her in the last few weeks but fixed it... this is also week 7 look at the difference in size!
http://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=1087&pictureid=136243
http://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=1087&pictureid=136241
http://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=1087&pictureid=136240
see what I mean?

[Thundurkel]

I'm using PBP now with my new 400w HPS DR80 Air Pot grow and I'm in week 2 about to be starting week 3 of flower. My question is what bloom boosters or flower hardener's do you guys use with PBP??? A fellow IC member convinced me to switch from Flora Nova saying I'll get the same if not better yields and the flavor and aroma with be much better which I believed after I got my tester set of Organicare Grow Bloom Boost and additives all of them... I have a full qt bottle of Kool Bloom 0-10-10, Humboldt Nutrients Ginormous 0-18-16, Humboldt Nutrients 100% Pure Organic Bliss- Deuce Deuce 0-0-22.... I've been thinking lately about the DD being a good idea possibly since there is all this info Advanced Nutrients has about too much Phosphorus being in nutes and the buds really want more Potassium to swell up how we want. What do you all think of that? I tried it out on 2 of my Thunder Goo gal's a while back and for how short they were they got pretty fucking fat but I didn't take pics unfortunately so again any thoughts and help would be mucho appreciated!