Mycorrhizal Fungi

[Guest]

Mycorrhizal fungi spores are the special ingredient in all-natural Plant Success Growth Stimulant. These beneficial fungi protect plants' roots from many fungal diseases, improve soil structure and assist with nutrient uptake. The result: stronger, healthier plants and increased yields.

Mycorrhizal Fungi colonize plant roots and extend the root system into the surrounding soil. By attaching to the feeder roots, mycorrhizae greatly extend the effective absorbing area available to plants. Research demonstrates that mycorrhizal filaments can explore volumes of soil hundreds to thousands of times greater than roots themselves. This relationship is beneficial because the plant enjoys improved nutrient and water uptake, disease resistance, superior survival and growth. In addition, the relationship is beneficial by providing more uniform growth, increased leaf size, more flowering and increased vegetable yields.

Under natural conditions, plants live in close association with many soil microorganisms. Some are beneficial others are not. Mycorrhizal fungi act as a bridge allowing beneficial organisms to pass, and prevent harmful pathogens from crossing over, to the plant. To prevent these pathogens from destroying crops most nurseries and farms have resorted to sterilizing the soil either with chemicals or heat. The drawback to this practice is the death of the beneficial microorganisms, which under natural conditions help the plant make food from its surrounding habitat. The soil sterilization process perpetuates the need for more fertilizers unless mycorrhizae are reintroduced into the soil and to the plants. In order to achieve maximum performance nearly all commercially grown plants require mycorrhizae upon transplanting.

What Are Mycorrhizal Fungi?
"Mycor"-"rhiza" literally means fungus root and defines the mutually beneficial relationship between the plant root and the fungus. These specialized fungi colonize plant roots and extend far into the soil resource. Mycorrhizal fungal filaments in the soil are extensions of root systems and more effective in nutrient and water absorption than the roots themselves.

What Plants Form Specialized Roots With Mycorrhizal Fungi?
Over 90% of the world?s plant species form mycorrhizae and require the association for maximum performance in non-artificial conditions.

How Do Mycorrhizal Fungi Increase Nutrient Uptake?
These fungi increase the surface absorbing area of root 10 to 100x thereby greatly improving the ability of the plants to utilize the soil. Several miles of fungal filaments can be present in less than a thimbleful of soil. Mycorrhizal fungi increase nutrient uptake by increasing the surface absorbing area of roots, and by releasing powerful chemicals into the soil that dissolve hard to capture nutrients such as phosphorous, iron and other "tightly bound" soil nutrients. This extraction process is particularly important in plant nutrition and explains why non-mycorrhizal plants require high levels of fertilizers to maintain their health. Mycorrhizal fungi form an intricate web that captures and assimilates nutrients. In non-mycorrhizal conditions much of this fertility is wasted or lost from the system.

What Other Activities Do Mycorrhizal Fungi Do?
Mycorrhizal fungi are involved with a wide variety of other activities that benefit plant establishment and growth. The same extensive network of fungal filaments is important in water uptake and storage. In non-irrigated conditions, mycorrhizal plants are under far less drought stress compared to non-mycorrhizal plants.

Disease and pathogen suppression is another benefit for a mycorrhizal plant. Mycorrhizal fungi attack pathogen or disease organisms entering the root zone. For example, excretions of specific antibiotics produced by mycorrhizal fungi immobilize and kill disease organisms. Some mycorrhizal fungi protect pine trees from Phtophtthora Fusarium and Rhizoctonia diseases. In addition, mycorrhizal roots have a mantle, a tight, interwoven sock like covering of dense filaments that acts as a physical barrier against the invasion of root diseases.

Mycorrhizal fungi also improves the soil structure. Mycorrhizal filaments produce humic compounds and organic "glues" (extracellular polysaccharides) that bind soils into aggregates and improves soil porosity. Soil porosity and soil structure positively influence the growth of plants by promoting aeration, water movement into soil, root growth, and distribution. In sandy or compacted soils the ability of mycorrhizal fungi to promote the improvement of soil structure is as important as seeking out nutrients.

Don't Soils Already Contain Mycorrhizal Fungi?
Undisturbed soils are full of beneficiary soil organisms including mycorrhizal fungi. Research indicates however, many common practices can degrade the mycorrhizal forming potential of soil. Tillage, fertilization, removal of topsoil, erosion, site preparation, road and home construction fumigation, invasion of non-native plants, and leaving soil bare are some of the activities that can reduce or eliminate these beneficial soil fungi. Reintroducing mycorrhizal fungi in areas where they have been depleted can dramatically improve plant establishment and growth.

Many routine nursery practices such as fumigation and high levels of water and nutrients produce non-mycorrhizal plants that can grow well in artificial growing media, however they are poorly adapted to the garden environment.

[bartender187]

Yep fungi is good shit. I have some mixed up in soil mixture.

bartender187

[bartender187]

BUMP....

people should read and digest this info....

Like i said before, fungi is good shit

[quadracer]

using it right now. works great for any medium you are using, not just for hydro.

[Rocky Mtn Squid]

On my latest grow, I've been utilizing mycorrhizal fungi in my aeroponic hydro system. You have to be very careful when using this type of fungi, as it will easily clog up your mister's in a heartbeat.....:cuss:
I'm presently trying a combination of two additional Advanced Nutrient product's using the Dr. Hornby label. I mixed a 50% watered down cocktail of Pirahna & Scorpion Juice, and introduced it to my seedlings when they were 7 days old by pouring the mixture into the rockwool cubes they were planted in.

Pirahna is a formula of mycorrhizal that contains 8 species of trichodermia and 16 species of endo & ecto fungi which organicaly excrete powerful chemicals that dissolve nutrients, absorb water, and promote soil porousity. Such actions greatly assist the development of root mass, and both nutrient and water absorption, via the symbiotic relationship between the plant, its roots, and the fungi. Scorpion Juice induces a systemic acquired resistance that innoculates your plants, which in turn is suppose to initiate an immune response that triggers increased resin production.

Recently I flipped my lights over to 12/12, and have once again started to feed my ladies watered down cocktails of Pirahna & Scorpoin Juice mixed together by carefully pouring it directly on my roots. Moreover, Pirahana & Scorpion Juice can also be used as a foliar spray. According to the Advanced Nutrient Feeding Calculator, Pirahna should be applied during the first two weeks of flower.


http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1664Sour_Bubble_11_06_04-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1664Sour_Bubble_11_06_04.JPG)

:canabis:

[GratefulPhish]

I too have recently introduced pirahana and voodoo juice (beneficial bacteria) to my garden. I'll be updating with any noticable results.
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/3153AdvancedNutes-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/3153AdvancedNutes.jpg)

[B.C.]

DAMN Tex very profound post... I think it is important to note that this fungi specilizes (sp?) in drawing phosphous out of the medium,and or nutes. so you don't want to add too much Phos.or it will kill your micor. fungi= overdose. Someting to keep in mind.... ( as you can tell spelling is NOT one of my strong points.... sorry )

[plyinindirt]

hi all, how do u use that in hydro, does plant success have a liquid? I use the powder
in soil and it works great. thanks

[onus]

One other tip along similar lines: Actinovate. This product promotes the growth of actinomycetes, another beneficial root organism, in soil. I use both of these when mixing my non-soil Sunshine Mix #4/perlite media, and I have some phenomenal root growth.
See http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=801 for more info.

Onus

[demeegod]

http://www.genhydro.com/subculture.php

Has trichoderma and mycco's too, lot's of product out there have one or the other.. has both. Plus you dont have to settle for paying outrageous Advanced Nutrients prices for beneficial bacteria and fungi. If you got tarantula and voodoo you'd be paying hundreds while this is 13 bucks an oz. to 60 for 6oz and can make a decent size application. AN would be better if they didn't rob you by making you buy tons of product to get their "IDEAL" results. If they had maybe a three part system with two additives per stage ... and that was there sell... with reasonable prices for additives... they'd be better... plus I think their idea of R&D is funny... it's called.. let's see what others are selling and make our copied version of theirs and rename it. Plus, I love their selling pitch lie... we use chelated products.. others dont and are lying to you.

[Guest]

Alot of interesting link's posted people. Alot of morning reading for me to do, thank's.

There has been alot of talk on the boards about this subject, but this is a bit more in depth.

I am not sure what is in Hydrogaurd, but since I started using it I have hand much better root growth and healthy root's thru out the entier grow. This never happened for me when I was DWC style, then again I did not use the hydrogaurd back then either.

grow safe.

realhigh.

[verge]

Another vote for the friendly fungi! :cool:

Rememebr - "Go steady with your ppm's guys, strong chemical solutions will wipe out the little fella's" ;)

[demeegod]

Hydroguards fungi basically serve a different purpose and basically contains different kinds of Bacillus. It's serves to protect your roots and therefore, you have less damage to your root mass from pathogens and diseases.

Myco's settle in your roots and make homes in them. They make your roots grow by producing a symbiotic relationship with the plant and it therefore make MUCH more roots.

Trichoderma, well, I'll let Tex answer that, he has much more detailed explanations.

[Guest]

demeegod, well you basically said what the label say's, and I must say it has been an imporment on the garden. Maybe the combination of a few other thing's I am doing have worked together. I do feel so lucky at time's as I did not read about it, just used it on advice from another.

I am very interested in keeping my girl's as happy as can be, so I will have to look into this much deeper.

I am so glad I was invited to this site by a friend. It has been a pleasure to learn again. This is a very loaded site with knowledge about growing in many way's.

I only expect to build my knowledge and better my grow room to grow bigger and better girl's.

stay safe and grow the same way.

realhigh.

[Harry Gypsna]

Well here i am going on about Vita-link again, but this product is 100% organic,
i think is this kinda thing, beneficial bacteria, its called Bio-pak, 100% organic bio-stimulant with nitrogen fixing, phosphorous solubilising and growth promoting bacteria and fungi says it also helps to chelate small mineral paticles to promote their entry into the plant. also contains, humic extracts, yucca extracts, cold water sea kelp, amino acids, vitamins and sugars. i had it given to me in the growshop, should av cost me 25 pounds. i wanted some superhtrive to use when transplanting, and he said try this, so i used it, and im impressesed, the plants i potted on with this in the watering, rooted the pot and took off straight away compared to the 2 plants i did without(experiment), all were Hindu kush x skunk #1 clones which were the samw age, from the same batch of cuts, in identical pots, and mix. Id recommend this product, and when it runs out( a long time cos this .2 litre tub of powder treats 800 litres of soloution) i will be buying some. i would say that all these things must be good.

[demeegod]

I did notice something earlier I didn't know and if someone will explain I'd be grateful. Beneficial fungi and organisms. Do they die in hydro-chemical nute solutions or is there a special way you must add them?

Just asking because I usually use Canna Aqua (which is the watered down Canna for recirculating systems) and wanted to know if that would basically kill Trichoderma or Mycos... seem to me hydroguard was made for hydroponic setups so I assume they took this into account but what about the others? WOuld I need to run the plant 48 hours with pure fungi and organisms for them to take hold first or something?

[plyinindirt]

quick question, how well does the fungi work in a soiless mix?

[phillykid]

I dunno how much they would help in hydro, the nutrients are already dissolved and there's plenty of water around for uptake so no need for assistance. It seems like this stuff is best for plants that are in a soil environment so they can help break down nutes. But usually people feed their plants fertilizer with dissolved nutes so I don't know how much they'd help.
I broke out my old biology text book and I'm trying to learn some plant physiology, it's really helping me to make some educated guesses as to what's really gonna help and what isn't. I think these hydro companies are making a killing off folks on additives and extra crap.

[King]

No philly the fungi is very good stuff. Hydro or Soil

If you are using organic nutes you need this to break down the organics to a form absorbable by your roots. This is the difference between organics and chemicals. Organics must be broken down. Chemicals are immediately ready for your roots. It really doesn't make a difference if it's soil or hydro, but rather chemical or organic. People using pure chemical nutes do not need to break down their nutes therefore it would be a waste. If you are using a organic/chemical mix you should be using the fungi. The organic side still needs to be broken down. The chemical side of the mix is already ready to go.

[sunnyside]

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1654en-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1654en.jpg)

Two-part mycorrhizal inoculants, Earth Nectar and Earth Ambrosia, are for use with soil gardening and in hydroponics systems. When Earth Nectar—containing the concentrated mycorrhizal cultures—is mixed with Earth Ambrosia—the fuel delivery system for the active cultures—they combine to infuse the growing medium with mycorrhizal cultures resulting in stronger plants and increased crop yields.


EARTH NECTOR & EARTH AMBROSIA
Earth Nectar & Earth Ambrosia. Used together in your cloning system these solutions prevent the slimy buildup that sometimes accompanies the water in the system if not changed often. Using these solutions cuts down on the gray matter that at times appears on fledgling cuttings. You will find this product to be indispensable in your cloning adventures. Sold in set of pints or quarts, must buy both.

[King]

^^^ EN/EA rocks ^^^

[phillykid]

King, remember this post by TK over on that PBP thread:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=5901&page=1

The second one, whre the guy talks about TDS pens. EC is a measure of electrical conductivity, it's a measure of how easily electrons can move within a substance, all electricity is is flowing electrons. The more salts that are present the easier water can conduct electricity. It's not just salts it's dissolved salts, a solid block of NaCl cannot conduct electricity but made soluble in H2O so that the Na+ ions and Cl- ions dissociate makes an electrically conducive solution. Sugar doesn't do this cause sugar doesn't dissociate in water, yes it dissolves but it's just the molecules are spread out but the molecules don't dissociate, it doesn't form ions.

If there are no ions, if the salts are in their natural forms and not dissociated into ionic salts they WILL NOT register a ppm because they WILL NOT be able to conduct electricity.

If the nutrients were truly organic and they needed to be broken down by bacteria then you wouldn't be able to measure EC correctly. The EC would change according to how much bacteria is available, the type of bacteria and how metabolically active they are.

Check #4 from this link
http://lakeaccess.org/russ/conductivity.htm

Also scroll down and look at the TDS if different lakes. These all have a lot of organic matter in them and the only ones that register high ppms are salt lakes.
Another link about hydroponics and nitrogen:
http://www.maximumyield.com/viewart.php?article=90

When all these things are in their natural state they do not register ppm. If you add pbp to a res and can then check the pH right away or minutes after than the nutrients are already in an ionic form (hopefully the proper ones for plant nutrition).

If you believe everything that companies tell you then you'd spend a fortune on asingle grow. they market a whole lotta stuff cause people buy them up, some of these things are probably good, but some IMO are just not neccessary. I prefer to save a little bit of dough cause you go through a boat load of nutrients in hydroponic systems and it gets expensive to buy
PBP grow, PBP bloom, PBP soil bloom (bloom booster), cal mag, liquid karma, ready gro mix, clearex, silica blast, microbial innoculants, fungal innoculants, and a whole host of different products. Remember they research their own products, they have a vested financial interest in this research.....Merk's research showed Vioxx was a good drug.....turned out they were wrong and knew about it, why....they stood to make money.

The more I study the actual science, ie plant biology, plant physiology, the chemical and biological processes of nutrition and metabolism the more I think that a lot of claims are total bull shit. I'm beginning to think chem nutes with organic additives is the way to go. I'm currently getting the basics from my old Cambell's biology book (standard text for first year bio majors), and online sources. I'm also beginning to think MH is BETTER than HPS no matter what plant stage, and pumping up the nute concentration does more harm than good. A plant is 85-90% water, the dry weight is predominantely carbohydrate.....how is carbohydrates made....photosynthesis. You can increase nute level all you want but if you don't increase photosynthesis the plant simply won't grow any faster. Don't get me wrong a balanced nutrient feed is vital because they need it to produce proteins, nucleic acids and the such but for most folks the limiting condition in their rooms is CO2 and light and messing around with ferts which are already complete is just a waste of money IMO.

"Earth Nectar & Earth Ambrosia. Used together in your cloning system these solutions prevent the slimy buildup that sometimes accompanies the water in the system if not changed often. Using these solutions cuts down on the gray matter that at times appears on fledgling cuttings. You will find this product to be indispensable in your cloning adventures. Sold in set of pints or quarts, must buy both."
seems to me that all they're doing is outcompeting bad microbial components for the nutrients and setting up shop on the roots so those other elements can't......if you change your res like you should or don't experience these problems then I'd rather save the money. ANd I know the gain might be worth it in terms of how expensive weed is but I don't sell and my academic research job pays shit.
peace
PK

[sunnyside]

no res changes in soil...
Mycorrhizae are symbiotic associations that form between the roots of most plant species and fungi. These symbioses are characterized by bi-directional movement of nutrients where carbon flows to the fungus and inorganic nutrients move to the plant, thereby providing a critical linkage between the plant root and soil. In infertile soils, nutrients taken up by the mycorrhizal fungi can lead to improved plant growth and reproduction. As a result, mycorrhizal plants are often more competitive and better able to tolerate environmental stresses than are nonmycorrhizal plants.

Mycorrhizal associations vary widely in form and function. Ectomycorrhizal fungi are mostly basidiomycetes that grow between root cortical cells of many tree species, forming a Hartig net. Arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi belong to the order Glomales and form highly branched structures called arbuscules, within root cortical cells of many herbaceous and woody plant species.

Plant responses to colonization by mycorrhizal fungi can range from dramatic growth promotion to growth depression. Factors affecting this response include the mycorrhizal dependency of the host crop, the nutrient status of the soil, and the inoculum potential of the mycorrhizal fungi. Management practices such as tillage, crop rotation, and fallowing may adversely affect populations of mycorrhizal fungi in the field. Where native inoculum potential is low or ineffective, inoculation strategies may be helpful. With the current state of technology, inoculation is most feasible for transplanted crops and in areas where soil disturbance has greatly reduced the native inoculum potential.

[sunnyside]

The benefits afforded plants from mycorrhizal symbioses can be characterized either agronomically by increased growth and yield or ecologically by improved fitness (i.e., reproductive ability). In either case, the benefit accrues primarily because mycorrhizal fungi form a critical linkage between plant roots and the soil. Mycorrhizal fungi usually proliferate both in the root and in the soil. The soilborne or extramatrical hyphae take up nutrients from the soil solution and transport them to the root. By this mechanism, mycorrhizae increase the effective absorptive surface area of the plant. In nutrient-poor or moisture-deficient soils, nutrients taken up by the extramatrical hyphae can lead to improved plant growth and reproduction. As a result, mycorrhizal plants are often more competitive and better able to tolerate environmental stresses than are nonmycorrhizal plants.

Another advantage attributed to mycorrhizal fungi is access to pools of phosphorus not readily available to the plant. One mechanism for this access is the physiochemical release of inorganic and organic phosphorus by organic acids through the action of low-molecular-weight organic anions such as oxalate which can (Fox et al. 1990): (i) replace phosphorus sorbed at metal-hydroxide surfaces through ligand-exchange reactions, (ii) dissolve metal-oxide surfaces that sorb phosphorus, and (iii) complex metals in solution and thus prevent precipitation of metal phosphates.

[sunnyside]

Benefits include:

Improved nutrient and water uptake
Improved root growth
Improved plant growth and yield
Improved disease resistance
Reduced transplant shock
Reduced drought stress
looks to me like it helps in just about every aspect of plant growth :)

[Guest]

Is mycorrhizal fungi airborne and therefor already present in a hydro system that doesn't utilize res changes? Or is it naturally soil-borne and should be added as a supplement to hydro systems? I use chemical nutes, specifically GH Flora Lucas formula, in a bio-bucket system. Would this even be beneficial to me? Thanks for your help, I'm always looking for a new angle.

[Guest]

I have been using Plant Success for a while now and have had a couple of questions. I use Pure Blend Pro, Liquid Karma for nutes. My question is this. Once added are there other things that you have to be careful of adding that might counteract the fungi or might render it ineffective? Like maybe a fungicide or insecticide. Get my drift?

Also for knowledge ProMix has a soil with this already premixed in it.

Peace Mo,
:smoweed:

[verge]

Whats with all the copy n' pasting?

Why not use your own words, from experience... and if you must copy and paste, why not put a link to the source??
Ripping off someone else's work without crediting them is pretty grim IMO.

Sorry, but it had to be said.

[Guest]

Well I use AN Piranha Powder, Voodoo Juice and Tarantula with outstanding results!
There is no question that having a strong root system is the best way to have a STRONG plant structure and BIG FAT STICKY BUDS!!!
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/2393GOO-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/2393GOO.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/2393Close-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/2393Close.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/2393IPBGcola2-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/2393IPBGcola2.jpg)

[Guest]

V, with as much info as there is to get out there cut and paste helps this stoner alot.

Read all the grow threads for actual experience. With all the specific scientific discreptions of the micros it's difficult to retain all that in you brain to retype later or to even summarize.

I think that most of the info is posted in one form or another on alot of different grow sites both cannabis and non-cannabis related as well as the specific manufactures sites. Sometimes links to other sites do not work and are discouraged in some cases.

Not trying to regurgitate, pirate, or steel anything from anybody with giving credit just trying to get the info out there for members.

I use Botanicares line with great results mix ratios, ammendments and cycles are at the beginning of my grow threads.

Tex

[verge]

Yeah, I appreciate that TK! :wave:

Just imo it would only take a couple'a seconds more to stick up a link to the source of any piece of text not written by the poster.. also helps peeps to learn more and more. :)

This site is cool, really laid back... but it is only fair to give credit where it is due, imo.

Anyway... congratulations to the team on a wonderfull site... :friends:

verge

[kilacaLIbud]

i went to the hydro store today in the ghetto of so cali. to get some alaska fish fert 5-1-1(thick shit) and i asked him for some mycorrisal ..and he handed me a package with what looked to be a bud plant on it with a big o root ball and was like ...this stuff is good u have to use all organics on it...i think he knew what i was gettin it for...he was a old stoner lookin guy,...but im not gettin mycorrisal untill i transplant a lil to expensive...17.99

[demeegod]

I never understand how someone can be cheap about buying products for weed. WIth the amount of money you save growing your own "a hundred here or there" shouldn't be an issue. I save over 800 a month because of it, so why not put some money back into what takes care of you... but oh well... to each their own.

I guess that's why I've never been very good at saving... maybe "a penny saved is a penny earned" really is worth living by.. im just not any good at it.

[kilacaLIbud]

...ha i think ive spent more on the grow then on weed..cause i usually dont buy it...but im not in a secure position to be gettin any drastic wattage...or anything..just yet...but when i do move and get WAttage and a job i will be spending money ...so far ive bought foxfarms grow big ..and that was the most expensive shit ..and im also thinkin about gettin some liquid karma..

[BigBogFan]

Here's a link to fungiperfecti.com . Paul Staments who wrote "The Mushroom Cultivator", generally considered by many as the "Bible" of mushroom cultivation, owns this company and sells a product like that being discussed here.
The second link is a picture of two plants one with the fungi additive and one without. It looks impressive, especially for anyone using soil. Has anyone here ever used this particular product?
Has anyone ever seen a product similiar to this in any stores such as a Walmart or the like?

Thanks.

http://www.fungiperfecti.com/mycogrow/index.html

http://www.fungiperfecti.com/mycogrow/growpics/poppies.jpg

[phillykid]

The first link says:
"Sadly, modern techniques for clearing and developing land for human use destroy mycorrhizal fungi, reducing the ability of plants to thrive in man-made environments and forcing us to resort to fertilizers and other artificial means of promoting plant growth."

You're gonna be using fertilizer anyways right? He's talking about outdoors. I still think it's not neccessary, I've never used it, I've seen BOGs plants and they're huge and it's not part of his soil recipe. It won't hurt and might help but it probably won't be the huge dramatic change that that guy claims. I mean, he is trying to sell his product.

here's a link I just found :

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/botany/msg11071612722.html

If you really want to innoculate you could take a handful of soil outside near a healthy tree and mix it into your soil, that will innoculate it for free. But of interest to me was the last comment on that page. About the study that found that when plants had plenty of water and fertile conditions the fungi didn't form associations with the plant even if they were present. There are 2 sides to this issue, like most others and it's not easy since some studies are just inappropriate to compare to cannabis.

[stretch]

Hey ..playin in dirt. If your runnin organic Hydro & you wanna use Granular MYCO/TRYCODERMA fungus in your res.. You need Panty hose.. Real sea sponge(the bacteria seem to munch on fake ones & they turn to shit).. Put sea sponge in panty hose(make sponge the size of a softball) put your MYCO/TRYCO in on top of the sea sponge.. Then hang it under a return line in your res With half the sponge in the solution & half outa solution..(they gotta breath) with an air bubbler underneath it.. You have to get air to it hence the half in half out of solution thing.. Your just built a benificial bungaloo that will amaze you with root protection a well as general plant health . No peroxide in organic as it kills your benificials..Good luck & stress free growin to all.... Stretch

[Verite]

Most people dont know that EN/EA also contains beneficial nematodes in them [ which arent listed by that name on the ingredients.] I think one part has the inactivated eggs in it [clear] and the other part an egg activator [dark]. When you add the parts together that activates the nematodes into action and they will cruise thru moist soil looking for any critters that give off co2 [ soil gnats, thrips, etc.]

I kinda freaked out when I found them as I added a double dose mix of the en/ea to some small pots and then overwatered them a few days later over a black tub and saw all these little microscopic worms come out in the run off.

Bene nematodes will remain in moist soil but will die quickly in dry soil and when exposed to a ph shock difference of more than a point or two.

[Guest]

check out my latest post here (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=9935) for the dope on how to 'make' your own mycelium

[Guest]

What kind of products kill the bacteria/fungi? Nutrient, supplement wise? I don't want to start using them to later find out that the nutes I were using just destroyed them.

[Ganoderma]

mycrorrhizal fungi is good shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[casey]

isnt cocogro from botanicare innoculated with myco??


anyone ever use it??

[senseless]

im going to the hydro store soon. what type of mycorhizzi innoculant can i buy for my recirculating bio bucket sytem?

[SativaBelieva]

Funny... I've started a thread under Organic Soil... and just posted some info on Rhyzosys...

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=28977

My friend ****** has helped develop this product for the MJ business... lucky me, I got to try it... and have been a happy user for more than one year... the mycorriza root fungi extends the reach of your plants' roots... and the bacteria help free up nutrients from the soil... I believe these beneficial additives bring me an edge in growing...

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/4005rhizosys-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/4005rhizosys.jpg)

[Sauce]

I believe all the major beneficials like Florashield, SubCulture, Hydroguard, etc all contain mycorhizzi.

Actually not sure on that. Found this in the Hydroguard sticky:

The product composition consists of: Bacillus subtilis, Paenibacillus polymxa, Bacillus circulans, and Bacillus amyloliquefaciens. The guaranteed analysis is:CFU/Gram 1.7E x10 6 .

[kokua]

I believe all the major beneficials like Florashield, SubCulture, Hydroguard, etc all contain mycorhizzi.

Actually not sure on that. Found this in the Hydroguard sticky:


wishfull thinking...but not the case. None of those beneficials contain mycorrhizae. If you want mycorr, buy mycorr. If you want baccillus, buy baccillus. If you dont' know what you want, ASK SOMEONE WHO KNOWS!!

[baccas125]

The fungus is among us. Good stuff it really does help try it you will like it!!

[kokua]

Most people dont know that EN/EA also contains beneficial nematodes in them [ which arent listed by that name on the ingredients.] I think one part has the inactivated eggs in it [clear] and the other part an egg activator [dark]. When you add the parts together that activates the nematodes into action and they will cruise thru moist soil looking for any critters that give off co2 [ soil gnats, thrips, etc.]

I kinda freaked out when I found them as I added a double dose mix of the en/ea to some small pots and then overwatered them a few days later over a black tub and saw all these little microscopic worms come out in the run off.

Bene nematodes will remain in moist soil but will die quickly in dry soil and when exposed to a ph shock difference of more than a point or two.

do you mind me asking where you got your information from? Nematodes are considered 'microscopic' for a reason. I doubt the little worms you saw were infact nematodes. That would be a great selling point for EN/EA (if it were true) People are willing to spend $30 bucks on just the nematodes alone. So, if it is true, why would EN/EA not want the consumer to know?

mi·cro·scop·ic - Too small to be seen by the unaided eye but large enough to be studied under a microscope.

One million nematodes fit in a 2x3 sponge...

http://www.naturescontrol.com/image/nematodes.jpg

[Verite]

Im pretty sure nematode eggs are a hella lot smaller when they are in the sponge. Activate them however and Im sure you might be able to see something. If you read the labels on the both the bottles they dont say much of anything of whats in them.

Heres a pretty good picture of the size of the critters I saw. These are nematodes on what looks like a termite larvae. Small sure but not so small you cant see them contrasted to a black plate.

http://www.biconet.com/biocontrol/GIFs/Nematodes.jpg


Heres the site from the pic where they describe the nematodes also as microscopic. Thanks for the websters definition though.
http://www.biconet.com/biocontrol/nemas.html

[Verite]

Plant Success is the Mychorr I use and it works pretty well but its all granulated. EA/EN is the only liquid mychorr available at my grow shop.

[milo_xxx]

:wave: hey everyone

I am about to do an aeroponics grow and I have have good results with Earth Juice products in the past.

would beneficial fungi help or hinder?

and am I mistaken in thinking chem ferts and organic do not mix? I have gotten several chem ferts for free, but have never used them. :1help:

[Guest]

Has the fungi fad finally passed?

If you want mycorr, buy mycorr. If you want baccillus, buy baccillus. If you dont' know what you want, ASK SOMEONE WHO KNOWS!!

I have a coco hydroton mix... what do I want to inoculate with?

[kokua]

you want mycorr for sure :) Thats the good stuff :yes:

[Guest]

Is this what I want? Plant Success (http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=PSG450#)

How much would ya say to use in a 6'' container? Teaspoon?

[kokua]

yes that is EXACTLY what you want. I am not sure about the dosing as I dont have my plant success in front of me. There are accurate directions on the label though. A teaspoon sounds about right...

[SoulRebel]

Pirahana from AN has several different types of endo and ecto mycorrhizae ... make sure to use RO water, or you'll kill all your newfound friends(mycorrhizal).


... S R... :joint:

[konstantgrdnr]

Check This site out, video explanation of Myco and great info

http://www.mycorrhizae.com/index.php?cid=408&

Enjoy.

[konstantgrdnr]

Follow the links
http://www.super-grow.biz/BloomCrystals.jsp

[leentu]

Hello all,
Ive been using a product line made by tangenterprises.com.They make a line of biological amendments that Ive had great success with. Theyre bio-peat is great for making a tea.It seems to promote complex branching. The soil life product produces conditions that increase uptake of nutes.And the bio-vam mychrorizea is amazing stuff too.

[leentu]

excuse me,its tandjenterprises.com

[konstantgrdnr]

Just delivering the word


The Benefits of Beneficial Organisms - Guineapig and IM Boggled, CC forums circa 3-2006

The effects of micro-organisms on a plant can be profound. These organisms, such as bacillus, mycorrhizae and trichoderma all form symbiotic relationships with the plant and are found in soil. Bacillus is used world wide for the control of loopers, fungus gnats, insect pests and opportunistic fungi pathogens. Tricoderma is a fungi that feeds off pathogenic root rot and damping off fungi; it also stimulates the plants root and immune systems, which helps the plant to fight off fungi attacks. Mycorrhizae is a beneficial fungi which colonizes the root surface; this helps keep the pathogenic fungi from getting a foot hold on the plant’s root system. Mycorrhizae also helps the plant take up nutrients that are out of reach of the plant’s roots. All of these beneficial organisms feed off plant exudes from the root system and some nutrients in the growing medium.


How to use beneficals in your system.

To get the maximum benefit from beneficial micro-organisms, the gardener should always provide food for these beneficals. Providing these organisms with food (e.g.: Liquid Karma, Earth Juice Catalyst and Sweet) ensures that they will grow and multiply in your garden, however, the harmful micro-organisms will also use this food to multiply. This is one of the reasons why your water and growing medium should be well oxygenated. Harmful pathogens tend to thrive in anaerobic conditions whereas beneficial organisms thrive in aerobic conditions.
For clones and seedlings – Use both Hydroguard (15ml per gallon) and Rhizotonic (15ml per gallon). These two products can be used in clone machines, rockwool cubes and Rapid Rooters. The Hydroguard contains two bacillus strains which secrete anti-biotics which will fight off root rot and damping-off pathogens. The Rhizotonic will help your young plants develop vigorous, healthy, strong roots; it will also provide the bacillus with some food. If your seedlings or clones develop a stem rot Hydroguard can be painted on the affected area (1 part Hydroguard 3 parts water).


For plants in soil – Most gardeners who grow in soil will use organic nutrients to feed there plants. Mycorrhizae suits plants that are being fed organic nutrients; chemical nutrients, especially when the concentration builds up in the growing medium, will destroy the Mycorrhizae. It is best to apply Mycorrhizae into the soil before planting (1 teaspoon of Rooters Mycorrhizae per gallon of soil). Bacillus and tricoderma can also be used on plants grown in soil. One pouch of Subculture should be mixed into 8 cubic feet of soil. A maintenance application should be reapplied every 4-6 weeks at 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. A weekly application of Liquid Karma or Earth Juice Catalyst will help keep your plants healthy and also provide the beneficial organisms with essential foods to keep them multiplying. This program can also be used for plants being grown in coco fiber that are fed organic nutrients.


For hydroponic systems – Mycorrhizae does not do well in hydroponic systems as it is sensitive to the nutrients that are used for hydroponics. For hydroponic systems it is best to use Subculture or Hydroguard. Both these products contain bacillus strains which are well suited to hydroponics even in systems that have high salt contents. Subculture should be applied at a rate of 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water/nutrient solution (1 pouch per 50 gallons). The first application of Hydroguard should be 15ml per gallon and maintenance applications at 5-10ml per gallon of nutrient solution. For coco fiber, rockwool and Ready-Gro mediums, both Hydroguard and Subculture should be reapplied 21 days after first application and thereafter every 21 days. For hydroponic systems that use Hydroton rocks, perlite, NFT or aeroponics, the Subculture and Hydroguard should be reapplied every 7 days.


Foliar Sprays – Both Hydroguard and Subculture can be used as a foliar spray to help control mildew that attack the leaves, stems, flowers and fruits of plants. Serenade is another product which contains only Bacillus subtilus. These bacteria will effectively control most leaf fungi pathogens.


Fungus Gnats – Bacillus thuringienses sub-species israelensis (the active ingredient in Gnatrol) is used for the control of fungus gnats. This bacteria produces a parasporal crystal which is toxic to the larvae of fungus gnats.

Please note: Even though you are dealing with a biological organism, always wash your hands with an anti-bacterial soap when finished, and when using these products as a foliar spray use a mask. Keep these products away from children and animals.

(note: this information is for educational purposes only.....but if you want to see a killer website that i like, go here:
http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/static/a...05_bacteria.asp
and you will find the source of the above information and funny bacterium illustration....thanks hempyhog....;-)

-- IM Boggled replies

The term mycorrhizal comes from the Latin words myco, meaning fungus, and rhiza, meaning root. Mycorrhizal fungi are fungi that have developed a symbiotic (mutually beneficial) relationship with the root systems of living plants, from garden vegetables all the way up to Old Growth trees. Networks of mycorrhizal filaments envelop the seedling's root structure, greatly extending and enhancing (by a factor of several hundred to several thousand times) the growing plant's water- and nutrient-gathering abilities and protecting the plant from disease.

This is a good and Inexpensive innoculation product

Plant Success Mycorrhizae Tablets
A mixture of 12 species of endo- and ectomycorrhizal fungi, Plant Revolution™ Plant Success™ Tabs are designed to help the gardener or home landscaper promote fast plant and root growth, increase nutrient and water uptake and reduce fertilizer use. Each Plant Success™ Tab consists of millions of spores of the following mycorrhizal species:

Endomycorrhiza
Glomus mosseae
Glomus intraradices
Glomus clarum
Glomus monosporus
Glomus deserticola
Glomus brasilianum
Gigaspora margarita

Ectomycorrhiza
Pisolithus tinctorus
Four species of
Rhizopogon

Exceptionally helpful for those who use commercial potting soils, which are sterilized and therefore devoid of beneficial microorganisms.

Fungi Perfecti, a legal edible mushroom growers supply company, is the apparent manufacturer of "plant success"
http://www.fungi.com/mycogrow/
GrowStuffPlus! stocks it as do others if one googles it.
http://www.growstuffplus.com/IBS/Si...archy/0001.html

"DIEHARD BioRush":
is a dry, water soluble root growth stimulant with nitrogen fixing, phosphorus solubilizing and growth promoting beneficial bacteria packaged in pre-measured, labeled bags for easy use with tank sprayers. Contains humic acid extracts, Trichoderma, soluble sea kelp, yucca plant extracts, amino acids and natural sugars to “energize” the microbial activity in the ground and promote cell division and lateral bud development as well as delay the aging process of plant tissue. Our unique formulation of ingredients affect the permeability of cell wall membranes in roots, improve plant respiration, photosynthesis, promote cell division and lateral bud development as well as delay the aging process of plant tissue. All these factors are well known to provide major benefit to plants promoting vigorous root growth and the overall general condition of the plant environment.
.....
The 1/4 lb. bag makes 25 very "hot" gallons.
Its best to mix/brew/stand seperately and then add splashes to nutrient mixes to innoculate, imho, using this product.
I've used it on various trees and gardens with a wide variety of fruits and vegetables in them and it tends to make a very noticeable difference compared to other gardens not beneficially innoculated.

I plan on growing some giant watermelons in the ground next year to compete in the county fair with, and this DieHard stuff will be one of my secret weapons (along with Guano's).
I have some Carolina Cross watermelon seeds from a 268.8 pounds, 37" long, 49" blossom to stem, 62.5" circumfrence specimen. (In metric lets just call that 122 kilogram, meter long mother "massive".)

Those Heirloom Tomato guys better hang onto there hats 'cause I'm coming to take their Blue Ribbons home too.

Informative post G.P., Thanks for sharing.

--Guineapig comes back

you know we are getting somewhere with IC when i have to go back and use myself as a reference.....way to go IC info gurus!!!

Components Used In DIEHARD™
Mycorrhizal "Cocktails"
I. Mycorrhizae - An estimated 10,000 research studies have been done on mycorrhizae during the past 25
years. Mycorrhizal fungi inoculants have been available to commercial markets only during the past 5
years.
A. Endomycorrhizae - A symbiotic relationship of endomycorrhizal fungi with roots of 90% of plant
species worldwide.
1. Inoculant contains multi strains of live spores of Glomus mosseae, Glomus intraradices,
Glomus fasciculatum, Glomus dussii, Glomus clarum, Glomus deserticola and Glomus microaggregatum.
2. Available in dry form with a shelf live of 18 months.
B. Ectomycorrhizae – A symbiotic relationship of ectomycorrhizal fungi with many tree species i.e.
pines, oaks and select hardwoods.
1. Inoculant contains multi strains of Pisolithus tinctorius and a variety of species of Rhizopogon.
II. Trichoderma and other beneficial fungi- Trichoderma (6 species), Gliocladium virens (2 strains), Trichoderma
harzianum (2 strains), Trichoderma viride (2 strains).
Trichoderma is a recognized beneficial fungus that is used to compete with the food source and space of
negative causing fungi in the soil. Spores of the fungus, when mixed with soils, germinate and grow around
plant roots depriving negative fungi the living space and food source thereby causing death to them, therefore
preventing fungal diseases.

Our KEY MICROBIAL COMPONENTS include:
BACILLUS: (32 SPECIES)
Bacillus azotofixans (2 strains): nitrogen fixation
Bacillus azotoformans (3 strains): nitrogen fixation, plant growth hormones
Bacillus megaterium (2 strains): decomposition, nutrient cycling
Bacillus polymyza (5 strains): anti-fungal, nitrogen fixation, nutrient cycling
Bacillus thuringiensis (2 strains): entomopathogenic
Bacillus licheniformis (6 strains): enzymes, plant growth hormones, soil structure
Bacillus pumulis (2 strains): decomposition, nutrient cycling
Bacillus subtilla (10 strains): anti-fungal
PSUEDOMONAS: (2 SPECIES)
Psuedomonas aureofaceans (2 strains): anti-fungal
STREPTOMYCES : (2 SPECIES)
Streptomyces lydicus (2 strains): anti-fungal
TRICHODERMA (6 SPECIES)
Trichoderma harzianum (2 strains): anti-fungal, plant growth hormones
Trichoderma viride (2 strains): anti-fungal, plant growth hormones
Gliocladium virens (2 strains): anti-fungal

here is an addendum to today's lecture. below you will find a description of the different types of endomycorrhizae species...

Characteristics of Endo Species Used:
Glomus dussii
Adapted to a large range of pH from 4,5 to 7, and is efficient on plant growth, and
preferably on tropical plants.
Glomus intraradices
Very common throughout the world. Shows disease resistance mechanisms against
Fusarium oxysporum.
Glomus fasciculatum
Adapted for drought conditions in high phosphorus soil. Also very effective in high
salinity conditions and is efficient on plant protection again some pathogenic fungi within
soil.
Glomus deserticola
Adapted for drought conditions, and has shown good agronomical effect under low soil
fertility.
Glomus microaggregatum
Adapted for drought conditions, and can have agronomical effect under low soil fertility.
Glomus clarum
Adapted to acidic pH 5-6, this specie is highly proliferous and can produce large quantity
of external mycelium in the soil and can occupy the rhizosphere.
Glomus mosseae
Adapted to acidic pH 6-8.5, this specie is highly proliferous and can produce large
quantity of external mycelium in the soil and can occupy the rhizosphere.

Sporulation Characteristics of Endo Species Used:
Inoculants
Some strains such as Glomus deserticola, Glomus microaggregatum, Glomus mosseae,
and sometime Glomus intraradices produce clusters of spores very (like a "popcorn ball").
Most of time, Glomus deserticola and Glomus microaggregatum produce clusters with as
many as 500 spores minimum stuck together.
Glomus mosseae produce external sporocarps (5-10 spores inside) or
external clusters of "young spores" and Glomus dussii produce external sporocarps
(containing hundred of very small spores) and also external spores entrapped within the
external mycelium.
Glomus intraradices produce large quantity of INTERNAL spores inside the root
(hundred spores /cm of root can be counted sometime).
All these "natural occurring” sporulation configurations must be considered for the
counting of spores.
Endomycorrhizaes are not Ecto. and this difference must be
considered.
The most important aspect is the standardization of the product and
the efficiency and quality.

All information is provided in good faith and believed to be accurate (their words....awesome job of providing the public with good info!)

Some of the main Beneficials at the Root Zone


Bacillus
Several varieties of Bacillus (i.e Bacillus megaterium) have been found to play a role in the conversion of unavailable forms of phosphates into plant available forms. In natural settings they can provide near 10% of the available phosphorous in the soil solution. With increased levels of plant available phosphorous, Bacillus strains become less effective. However, if the Bacillus can sustain as a back up it may continue to provide hungry blooms with phosphorous if it should become otherwise unavailable or “locked out”. This bacterium is of special interest to organic farmers who incorporate rock phosphate into the growing medium or if introduced through fertilizer teas, preparations, etc. Rock phosphate tends to be mostly unavailable, breaking down into plant available forms over time.

Certain forms of Bacillus are known to inhibit pythium and other pathogens. One of these is bacillus subtilis and is found in Hydroguard .

Mychorhizal Fung
Mycorrhizal fungi are especially effective in providing nutrients to plant roots. These are certain types of fungi that actually colonize the outer cells of plant roots, but also extend long fungal threads, or hyphae, far out into the rhizosphere, forming a critical link between the plant roots and the soil. Mycorrhizae produce enzymes that decompose organic matter, solubilize phosphorus and other nutrients from inorganic rock, and convert nitrogen into plant available forms. They also greatly expand the soil area from which the plant can absorb water. In return for this activity, mycorrhizae obtain valuable carbon and other nutrients from the plant roots. This is a win-win mutualism between both partners, with the plant providing food for the fungus and the fungus providing both nutrients and water to the plant. The importance of mycorrhizae in plant productivity and health has often been overlooked.It has been well documented that mycorrhizal plants are often more competitive and better able to tolerate environmental stress.Mycorrhizal technology has likewise made possible the production of inoculants to significantly improve the survival, growth and establishment of trees and crops.

M y•cor•rhi•zal - The symbiotic association of the mycelium of a fungus with the roots of a seed plant.

Nitrosomonas Bacteria
Species of aerobic bacteria which converts ammonia to nitrite. One of the critical bacteria in nitrogen cycle. Optimum pH range between 6.0 and 9.0, temperature 10oC - 34oC. Will acclimate to changes in water quality, but activity is reduced during acclimation which can lead to a build up of ammonia.
Nitrosomonas eat ammonia, they absolutely LOVE it. They Convert plant available ammonium (NH4) to unavailable nitrite (NO2).

Nitrobacteria
These bacteria convert the nitrite (NO2) resulting from the nitrification above into nitrate (NO3-), an important form of Nitrogen that all plants need.

Streptomyces
Bacteria that secrete a variety of compounds including antibiotics that prevent and control root zone pathogens. A closely related species of Streptomyces produces the antibiotic that we use, streptomycin. Many studies demonstrate the bacteria’s effectiveness at controlling root diseases, and select foliar diseases. An interesting consideration noted in one study is that they will also reduce levels of some nitrogen fixing bacteria in the soil.

Trichoderma
Some species of fungi that parasitize other fungi, such as Trichoderma, have been observed physically attacking and destroying pathogenic fungi. Strains of Trichoderma are found naturally occurring in many soils can play a role in the prevention and control of root pathogens, ultimately providing a healthier soil environment which can lead to higher yields. Some research suggests that the proteins in Trichoderma can degrade chitin, which is a structural component found in pathogenic fungi such as powdery mildew and in insects.

Some innovative propagation materials are inoculated with strains of Trichoderma.Many forms of coco coir contain it naturally. CANNA's Coco Growing Media is innoculated with it. If a healthy root environment is maintained, the bacteria will continue to colonize the roots and multiply in the growing media. The trichoderma help to form a protective layer around the root system, helping to fend off invading pathogens, etc.


Root Health and Pathogen Control


In hydroponics we can promote a plant's rhizosphere capability by insuring it has the proper minerals, as well as a well aerated root zone to allow for good air and water movement . We also suggest using an organic amendment like Liquid Karma as well as a general enzymatic product like Hygrozyme or SensiZym from Advanced Nutrients that will encourage the proliferation of healthy rhizosphere microbes. You may also wish to use a root stimulator / stress reliever like CANNA Rhizotonic. It is a powerful, organic stress-reliever which stimulates new root development, increases resistance against disease and improves the vigour of plants.

Most root pathogens seem to be opportunistic -that is, they take advantage of weak and/or damaged roots. Thus the best defense is to keep roots healthy in the first place. In the beginning of this FAQ we went over some of the basics, those being temperature and oxygenation. We can also add a silica to the nutrient solution such as Silica Blast. Silica has been shown to greatly reduce plant death, root decay and yield losses caused by root disease. It does this by fortifying plant tissues against attack. The disease may still be present, but it is not able to do damage.

It has been found by numerous studies that plant roots colonized by a mixture of different bacterial and fungal species, are far more resistant to pathogenic attack. Mycorrhizal fungi form an impenetrable physical barrier on the surface of plant roots, varying in thickness, density and fungal species, according to the plant species, plant health and soil conditions. Ideally the beneficial microbes out-compete pathogenic species and form a protective layer on the surface of living plant roots. In soil it is usually only when the beneficial species of bacteria and fungi are killed by continuous soil disturbance and toxic chemicals that pathogenic species have an advantage.


Using Good Microbes to fight the Bad Ones


There are a slew of new beneficial microbial products on the market, and they have a variety of effects ranging from breaking down nitrogen into useable forms to cleaning the roots to warding off negative microbiological pathogens. These good microbes also activate, enrich and stimulate the roots - they help to create beautiful fuzzy white root growth like you have never seen before.

The new array of products on the market can be confusing an misleading. We only sell products that we are familiar with and have personal experience with. Here are some of what we think are best.

Earth Ambrosia / Earth Nectar: a two-part mycorrhizal fungi innoculant - in liquid form

Down to earth mycorrhizal root innoculant: in powdered form for soil or coco

Piranha Piranha colonizes the root zone with 26 beneficial fungi (in powder form for hydro)

Tarrantula Bacterial blend of 57 microorganisms, with 1.4 billion Colony Forming Units per gram

Voodoo juice Liquid solution consisting of five strains of bacterial microbes, one is a nitrogen fixer

Botanicare Hydroguard Water treatment and pathogen supressor made of four benefical bacteria: Bacillus subtilis, Paenibacillus polymxa, Bacillus circulans, and Bacillus amyloliquefaciens.


The Other Route: Keeping the Reservoir Sterile


Some would argue that one of the strengths of hydroponics is its sterile environment, and the notion of exposing growing systems to bacterial and fungal organisms would be self-defeating, if not sacrilegious. These growers rely on sterile growing environments, strong disinfectants and a product like SM-90. Another option is Hydrogen Peroxide. Each of these offer their own protection and benefits. But NEITHER SM-90 or Hydrogen Peroxide works well with organic aditives in the reservoir. They do not work well together and SM-90 has also been known to react poorly with Superthrive.

In a sterile growing environment, your goal is to have a super clean reservoir. This is harder than it sounds. Folks who have been growing in the same area with the same equipment for years might find that they are suddenly having root problems when they never had them before. Or a new grower might begin having problems right from the beginning.

Keeping your reservoir totally sterile can work very well, but once you get a population of icky badness it will keep coming back again and again. Some pathogens such as pythium are almost impossible to get rid of completelely. No matter how many times you sterilize everything with a bleach solution, the problem returns. It can get very frustrating and expensive to constanly be battling. More and more innovative growers are moving toward a more wholistic approach of using good microbes in the reservoir.


Root Rot and Pythium


"Root rot" is a generic name for several common opportunistic waterborne diseases that can seriously affect indoor and outdoor crops year round. "Pythium" is the name of one of these diseases and is also used as a generic term for several different root rot and stem rot fungus species (including Pythium, Verticillium, and Phytophthora, and Fusarium). The term “damping-off” is also often used and usually applies to disease in seeds, seedlings and clones.

Whatever you call them, these diseases attack the roots of a plant and can rapidly infect crops in all stages. Damage includes reduced yields and crop failure. Pythium is particularly damaging in recirculating hydroponic systems as they provide ideal conditions for rapid growth and spread of infectious spores; a single infected plant can breed and send spores to all the plants.
The best thing is to prevent root rot from ever taking hold in the first place. It is an opportunistic disease which means that it is looking for sick, injured or weakened plants. Pythium is almost impossible to 100% eradicate from an infected system; this involves starting completely over (with new parents, containers, equipment, etc). It is probably present even if you don't know it - just waiting for its chance to get in.

“The best preventative measure against Pythium attack is a healthy, rapidly growing plant as this is an opportunist pathogen and will enter at the site of tissue injury or if the plants are overly succulent, weakened or stressed for some reason. Often root damage during the seedling stage as plants are introduced to the hydroponic system is a danger time for Pythium infection. Pythium is of greatest threat during the seed germination and seedling development stage when plants are most vulnerable to attack, and adequate control and elimination of the pathogen during this stage is the best preventative measure of Pythium control in hydroponic systems. Strong healthy plants will develop resistance to Pythium attack during the seedling stage and this will prevent problems at a later stage of growth. “

Dr. Lynette Morgan, Growing Edge Magazine
"Nutrient Temperature, Oxygen and Pythium in Hydroponics"t http://www.hydromall.com/grower/pyth...droponics.html

* How to Avoid a bad case of Root Rot Monitor plants and roots frequently
* Maintain a clean system – change and sterilize reservoir weekly.
* Design your system to combat pathogens
o keep your nutrient reservoir between 68 and 72F to maximize root growth, Dissolved Oxygen levels and inhibition of Pythium. 80 degrees and above will bring on a fast case of root rot.
o Constant aeration – maintaining high dissolved oxygen levels inhibits pathogens and accelerates root growth
o keep a lid on your reservoir to keep plant matter and light out
o Maintain a low pH of 6.2 or less to inhibit pythium growth

* Use prevention!! Use tank additives to give your roots the edge they need to grow strong and healthy!! Check out the Roots and Prevention section.



Bacterial slime and other horrifying nasties
These are not the beneficial bacteria and fungi that we have already spoken about. These bacteria cause cloudy reservoirs, slimy build up, weird reservoir fuzz, gelatin growths and wild pH fluctuations. These are the reservoir monsters.

When these bad microbes are present at high populations and are happily feeding on organic matter, they use up just about all the oxygen in the nutrient solution, suffocating the plants. They release toxic substances as a biproduct of their life cycle. They also suppress the good microbes at the root zone and cause problems with nutrient uptake and plant growth.

Bacteria slime and cloudy reservoirs
Bacteria can make the water cloudy, but tend to produce more of a slime or jellylike, smelly mass in the system.If you have it, you will notice slimy reservoir walls and perhaps an oily slick on the water. Another symptom can be a foamy buildup in the reservoir. If left to their own devices, these bacterial growths will smother the roots, depriving them of oxygen. Some species of anaerobic bacteria thrive in an environment deprived of oxygen and can produce chemical metabolites, such as alcohols, aldehydes, phenols and ethylene, that are toxic to plant roots and to other microorganisms.

Other symptoms of bacterial infections can be fuzzy, cotton like growths, or the growth of fur. Just in case you are wondering, that white fuzzy growth you see at the tip of your roots is desireable. That is not bacteria - That is the good stuff - you should see tiny fine white hairs at thje roots.

All of these nasties require organic matter to feed on. They may be there as the result of a buildup of dead roots and leaves in the root zone, but usually they are the result of adding an organic product to the reservoir. If the conditions are just right, the bacteria will begin to thrive.

One option is to use no organic additives at all and to rely strictly on chemical nutrients based on fertilizer salts. We think a better choice is to continue using organic material, but also using an enzymatic addtive like Hygrozyme that will break down the unwanted organic matter in the reservoir . If you would like to use additives such as bat guano, compost or fish-based products, you might consider run to waste instead of a recirculating system.


What to do if you have a bacterial or fungal infection


You will want to completely clean out your system - if you can, you should remove each plant, rinse it off, perhaps even dip it in an H202 solution. You should trim off any dead roots. you should then clean your entire system using a strong bleach or h202 solution. We suggest soaking everything in bleach for a few hours. You will definately want to soak your pump and any tubing in bleach. Make sure you rinse everything very well before putting the plants back in .

If your plants are damaged, you might want to run the nutrient solution at a lower concentration than usual. We highly recommend using an enzymatic addditive such as Hygrozyme. . You should also run a stress relief additive like CANNA Rhizotonic. We always suggest using Liquid Karma , but if your problem is real bad, you might want to lay off the organics a little bit.

While your roots are really hurting, you may want to foliar feed your plants with Nitrozime or Dutch Master If you haven't already, you should read the section above about inncoulating your system with good microbes.

Keep an eye on your reservoir. Be prepared to clean it out regularly, as soon as any sign of a infections (cloudy water or wild pH fluctuations) occur.

Remember IT IS MUCH EASIER TO PREVENT a pathogenic attack than it is to ddeal with it once it has occured!

[konstantgrdnr]

More easy read info with pics

http://www.fungi.com/

[Nept]

usefull thread bumb

[Ono Nadagin]

Edit.. sorry posted this in the wrong thread... still interesting


some really interesting stuff on this site
http://www.organicsalive.org/bio_tech.php

[Guest]

I have cultured theese spores with a small bag of jeffs potting mix, molassis(un sulphered) a five gallon bucket a airpump some b vitamines and i got a bucket of threads. and some EWC. This is far superior to using soil with spores. Every pot gets a dose at every watering.This culture can be kept continously.BTW i used unsulphered molassas because I was concerned of the fungus killing properties of sulpher.

[Guest]

Great info!

Everybody should be making their own, it's so easy. Another way is to add Carboload and Organic-B from AN. Mix with tarantula, piranha, voodoo juice and make expensive products last for a long time. Just keep the solution oxygenated with a medium that gives lots of surface area such as lava rock.

Anybody know if these BB, BF, Enzymes, B vitamins etc. are safe for fish in an aquaponic setup?

[alphacat]

re: ORMUS nutrients and Mycorrhizal Fungi:

It's claimed that these recently discovered compounds boost beneficial fungi growth, among other things...

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/Ormus.html

and here @ ICMag at: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=52387

[gromer]

just a tip 4 all u hydro growers out there who r using micro beasties in your medium .MAKE SURE every fertilizer and additive you use contains no manmade salts whatsoever.pay attentin this is the info Advanced nutes would never ever want you to find out. Any and all additives containing ANY man made salts will swiftly kill ALL of your microherd you have worked so hard(and paid so much money to acheive) This includes ANY ph up and down products even if it says organic on the label .So by all means keep wasting your hard earned by slaughtering your beasties Mike at Advanced nutes will love you for it.

[TNJed]

So, I bought a bottle of the beneficial bacteria at the local aquarium store for ten bucks. Is it the same stuff, essentially, as the expensive stuff at the hydro store? Furthermore, should I even bother since I use PBP(which isn't totally organic) and ph up and down? Just curious...

[TNJed]

Oh yeah, I've got another question to go along w/ the couple I posted above. I already use Hydroguard(10-15 ml/gal) and Hygrozyme(5-7 ml/gal), do I still need to add the beneficial bacteria I purchased at Petsmart? Namaste.

[TNJed]

just a tip 4 all u hydro growers out there who r using micro beasties in your medium .MAKE SURE every fertilizer and additive you use contains no manmade salts whatsoever.pay attentin this is the info Advanced nutes would never ever want you to find out. Any and all additives containing ANY man made salts will swiftly kill ALL of your microherd you have worked so hard(and paid so much money to acheive) This includes ANY ph up and down products even if it says organic on the label .So by all means keep wasting your hard earned by slaughtering your beasties Mike at Advanced nutes will love you for it.
I used beneficials along with ph up and down in my aquarium(S. American Cichlids), and every aquarium person that I consulted said that the combo was perfectly fine and safe. I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't believe you...

[Deft]

Epsoma has a line of myco-organisims and bacteria that are all good, a spoonfull realy speeds up brewing of my tea. I got a ~3-4 lb bag for $9.

[kokua]

tnjed...I dunno about that. Properly diluted pH up and down are ok I suppose in small enought amounts...but salt nutrients can reak havok on your beneficials.

Have you ever poured table salt on a slug? The slug turns into ooze because a "diffusional gradient" (concentration difference) exsists between the liquid inside the slug and the salt outside of the slug. In most natural processes when a diffusional gradient(concentration difference) is present, the solution seeks a state of equilibrium, meaning that the concentrations on the inside and the outside should be the same. The concentration of salt inside the slug is much less than the concentration of the pure salt on the outside of the slug. The cell membranes of the slug are designed to keep the nutrients and minerals inside but can pass water through the membranes. So the water inside of the slug passes through the cell membranes of the slug and tries to dilute the salt concentration on the outside of the slug. The movement of the water from the inside of the slug to the outside dehydrates the slug and the slug dies...

The same thing happens with your beneficials everytime you apply salt based ferts to you soil....major desiccation and death.

[Guest]

We need to find someone with a kickass microscope...

[snottyp]

if you can ever get your hands on worm castings or local fresh compost make a little tea and just add enough to the res to get all the good local micorrhizal around your roots and it will help protect them from local pathogens that will enevidably float and be carried into your room. boyE!

[snottyp]

as for going out and actually buying dried beneficials iv heard time and time again its just not worth it. even if there are dorment spores, the bulk of what your buying is dead. the best way to get your water to come alive is to introduce fresh active forms of beneficials (iam not saying go shovel in some dirt from your backyard) but you should think about investing in maken some compost or at least looking around for some worm castings. also, the only hope of actually keeping a health rhizosphere under your plants is to stay off the chemi ferts. if your thinking this far into your grow you should starting thinking organic otherwise forget about the living things and keep throwing salt into your plants. dont forget that all beneficials live in the same environment as your oxygen loving roots so throw in more stones to get more little guys.


go org. or go home

[Guest]

tag - this is good stuff, I need to read compleatly

[Guest]

Plant Success is the Mychorr I use and it works pretty well but its all granulated. EA/EN is the only liquid mychorr available at my grow shop.

EA/En is incredible stuff, my mums luv it!
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/26566general_pics_112-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/26566general_pics_112.jpg)

[kmk420kali]

Plant Success is the Mychorr I use and it works pretty well but its all granulated. EA/EN is the only liquid mychorr available at my grow shop.

Plant Success also has it in a Black Powder form, water soluble-- I use that also--
:rasta:

[Rootstyle]

I put that plant success directly in the root zone everytime I transfer anything. Works wonders if you dont let your medium dry out too much. Plants just get rockin!!

[TheAfficianado]

Well after the fact I had to clean with h202 under a tap to get of the brown jelly on my roots and did the bleach/start completely over thing, but saved my seedlings to avoid another three week delay in delivery from Gypsy. I bought some SubCulture and some Hydroguard, even though they have some of the same stuff I use them both at weak strength and lightened the strength of my res which is made up of reg. tap water, MaxiCrop Seaweed, Tetracycle Worm ferts (which will absolutely fry seedlings and I don't care what it says, make sure to delute it), the tiniest bit of molassess (less than half a teaspoon), and a few drops of SuperThrive which has never given me anything but joy.
The plants are responding and I think I have saved them. Long story short, we'll see but I'm going to keep posting my little story on different, though appropriate threads until I get my 50 posts and can actually read my Private messages!
Thanks for the thread, as I certainly got good ideas on which beneficials I want to move to next if these do not work, even though they look like they are absolutely working right now, especially the mychorizals.
The Afficianado

[sativalicious]

Cool! Great discussion.
Are there other notable "beneficial bacteria" discussions?
If you know of one, then perhaps a link to it, from here,
would be ok...

I'd especially like to hear more experiences of dry versus wet.
That is, products like Plant Success, SubCulture versus
special worm casting liquids or Organics Alive liquids or
Organics Alive mix.

BTW, someone told me to watch out for the brown (or dark) SubCulture indicating it's dead.

Peace,
Sat.

[TheAfficianado]

I haven't posted in almost a month, so let me update everyone. After I cleaned my resevoirs of my hydro and started over twice more, I gave up and switched back to a organic soil which has given me far more success. I managed only to save 3 seedlings-- now thriving plants-- due to the root rot and then the cleaning/transfer process, which broke the tap root on some of them. So out of a grand total of 11 seedlings I got three which is a 36.6% success rate on my worst grow ever. To be blunt I feel like a winner to have saved the plants I have.

In the mean time, I went out and bought a cubic foot of cow poo, a cubic of organic top soil, a cubic foot of organic miracle grow potting soil, some worm casings, and used approximately 7 pounds of cubensis substrate of pastuerized oat straw and innoculated rye and mixed it all up in a giant barrell with a handfull of horticultural lime. I mixed all of that with 8% perlite. I then Bubbled a liter of water innocultaed with SubCulture and Hydroguard for 24 hours with a half teaspoon of molasses and then in turn innoculated the organic composted mix. So the beneficial bugs could get to work.

I managed to lay my hands on some Mississipi Mud and some Orange Deisel and got those popped seedlings into the new organic mix. They basically jumped out of the dirt they are growing so fast.

If you have a good watering regimen and spend a lot of time with your plants, I think with a good organic mix with beneficials bugs can approximate the same growth rate as hydro without the headaches. Maybe some will say I am too stupid to dial in hydro, but I find that the easy success of organic soil hard to beat, especially if you have to leave for the holidays. I feel I can trust the plants to not have a major setback if I do a heavy watering before I take off.

In hydro, I was not happy with the beneficial bugs because i wasn't happy with anything. But I can definitely see the success in soil. My SubCulture is working for sure because you can see the microbes spread across the surface of the soil.

Thanks,
The Afficianado

[InjectTruth]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=66483

This is a thread about Cheaper Beneficials with a lot of good info on brewing your own, even enzyme products.

FungiPerfecti.com offers the best myco products out there, and on oz is only $2 - 3 bucks. They have seed germ, vegetables, and soluble mycorhizae mixes. All species used are listed.

Also, I found at my local garden center, some stuff from the company Espoma, called Bio-tone. ****IN AWESOME! Packed with all types of beneficial bacteria, and fungi, all types are listed right on the bag. Completely organic, contains feather meal, rock phosphate, etc, and even has a viability timeline on the bag! Best part is that is $25 bucks for 25 lbs! If you were to brew your own beneficial tea in a 35 gallon res with a scoop of this, some molasses and a pump, this 25 pound bag would go unbelieavably far! When you get down to the last gallon or so, you dont even have to add more powder, just more molasses and water. A personal supply/light commercial grower could have a copious supply for several years off of one $25 investment.

Anyone who is familiar with mushroom cult., Paul Stamets, and liquid culture, will tell you, even if you are using AN, there are ways to get more bang for your buck.

[TheAfficianado]

I think I am absolutely part of the "Mushroom Cult"!!! Lol!! Great Info. And you can always reuse your old casings in your compost and potting containers...

Peace.
The Afficianado

[wicked gh0st]

Okays ive been looking 4 some fungi and seen some over at ANs website and other sites 2 but WHY in the hell is advanced nutrients Piranha cost a fortune compaired 2 others??

[konstantgrdnr]

It's not always about the money you spend , Maybe This Will help if your in the U.S


http://www.rootfeed.livewebsitebuilde r.com/products/rhizofuel.html

[B00420]

Just to refute what some have been saying in this thread....Mycorrhizae is just fine to use with chemical nutes.

You can go to http://www.mycorrhizae.com as posted earlier in this thread. Mike Amaranthus is actually the guy who discovered all of this shit and you can message him or the other guys working there and ask all the questions you want. You can also send root samples to them and for 20 bucks they will tell you how your cultures are doing. They did a big article in the newspaper about him last summer.


I personally use Oregonism. It's made by Aurora (Aqua Serene) and until recently was only available from Aqua Serene or Northern Light and Garden as far as I know. I hear they've gone national with it though.

The good thing about the Oregonism is they have 2 kinds. Oregonism and Oregonism XL.....the XL are basically strains that are very resistant to high phosphorus etc and are great for hydro. They would just keep culturing them and culturing them while exposing them to high levels and keeping the survivors, rinsing and repeating...

Very noticeable results in my aero system with GH nutes and a bunch of other supplements.

[Sammet]

Whats up fellow Mycorrhizal Fungi growers! Although I don't use Hydro, I use Mycorrhizae in my soil mix:


http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/21338Funky-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/21338Funky.jpg)http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/21338Funky2-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/21338Funky2.jpg)


I've noticed an increase in the topics on Mycorrhizae so keep spreading the word everyone :D

[wicked gh0st]

It's not always about the money you spend , Maybe This Will help if your in the U.S


http://www.rootfeed.livewebsitebuilde r.com/products/rhizofuel.html
Thanks for the link man sure did help me outs do you use this stuff?If so how is it working for yas?

[konstantgrdnr]

This stuff will do the trick but keep in mind the growth stage and the nutrients you want to give your plant, mycorrhizal and bacteria aid in nutrient uptake and protect your plant by colonizing it first. It is then up to you to do the rest. if you want compare the product against the other myco and im sure you won't be dissapointed. This product comes straight from The Dr who was mentioned earlier in this post, if you follow the links on that thread you'll come to the myco prod on the rootfeed website.

Ps look into using humic and fulvic in addition, to feed the myco

[InjectTruth]

Mushroom compost is the spent substrate of a mushroom grow. I broke up a shroom casing and mixed it into my soil. Had little mushies growing in all the pots, and the roots blew up!

[elevate]

where is the best place to buy mycorhizzae in a large quantity. the size of one soil bag maybe... I only know of small grow shop with half gallon max...which is no good for me. anywhere convenient? I don't think OSH had it... but I could have missed it when I went.

[enigmatik]

Alright, picked up some Plant Success Soluble (premium mycorrhizae)

It'll be mixed in with GH Flora Nova(grow) and GH Diamond Nectar (and a couple drops of superthrive)

How much should be mixed in per gallon?

[Wildlifer69]

I've posted this question in another thread(no responses)

I have a bag of "Espoma: Bio-Tone Starter Plus " with Mycorrhizae & Beneficial Bacteria.
What I was wondering is ,could this be made into a "Tea" and watered into my growing medium?

If so ,how much should I use,and how long should I let it Steep ?
Thanks :joint:

[d4twamp]

I believe in beneficial bacteria too.. I've tried the ORGANICS ALIVE and the ROOTS ORGANICS OREGONISM XL the plants grown w/ these trichoderma and endo/ecto mychorrizae bacterias were so much better than those without

D :bongsmi:

[Deft]

How does the PPM and feeding differ when using myco in DWC? I read one of the first posts that said to go easy on ppm because the nutes can kill the watery friends?

Is the total ppm any different than a mostly sterile grow?

[sin-seed]

I was using the Roots Organics Oregonizm, and the Oregonizm XL and definitely saw faster growth. And the plants would become rootbound in no time after transplanting. I am just setting back up, and will definitely be using some kind of mycorrhiza product with this grow too.

[charlesweedmore]

can i use Mycorrhizal in coco or peatmoss so that i can use organic nutes ?

[buddin_904]

can i use Mycorrhizal in coco or peatmoss so that i can use organic nutes ?

i highly recommend it

[charlesweedmore]

thanks :)


coco or peatmoss the best for organic growing?

[DrunkenMessiah]

can i use Mycorrhizal in coco or peatmoss so that i can use organic nutes ?


I use Mycorrhizae fungus spores in my own oxygen-boosted coco-coir based organic grow. The fungus takes well to the coco so long as it has some organics to eat. I mix mycorrhizal spores along with dormant pro-biotics into a medium consisting of 50% coco, 20% organic compost, 15% vermiculite and 15% pearlite. The results are spectacular, I've been keeping a grow diary here:

http://my.gardenguides.com/members/hautions11/blog/2008/12/27/Our_Innovative_Indoor_Tomato_G arden_Diary

Hope this helps. Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

[charlesweedmore]

thanks bro

[Tarbosh]

anyone here try subculture-M or subculture-B by GH? is that organic?

I mean it has tons of beneficials I would assume its organic...... but not positive bc its from GH.... any input?

[Metalhead419]

so what is the trick to keeping the fungus and bacteria alive? How often do you need to inoculate your medium? Im planning in using Great White in my next DWC grow with house and garden nutes. Thats what my local hydro store recommended, and im interested in what the experts around here think.

[BURNING SKY]

I use Plant success Soluable and apply one whole pack to one 50 gl res. reup every 2 weeks. This stacked with subculture will give the best results i have found... There are other companies however as subculture gets pricy when plants go up and more is needed. subculture every week with new nutes and plant success every 2 that simple..

[Kcar]

RootZone
http://www.downtoearthdistributors.co m/rootzone.html