Seeds Stretching too Much? Experenced grower feels foolish...

[GirlWonderGrows]

Ok, I recently started 11 seeds, 9 ended up popping above the soil. They are growing in potting soil in the small 6 pack trays. They were looking good, and are in the process of poping their first real leaves, but the stems are like 4" long. I was keeping them away from the light because I didn't want to fry them, but they must not be getting enough. One has snapped due to my handling, I tried to stake it up but I don't think its going to pull through.

As background, they were in wet paper towels until the seed case started to crack, then I transfered them to soil, and they sprouted about 4' 6" away from a 400watt light. There are 3 aurora indicas and 6 NLxBB, both from Nirvana. They first poped about the soil about a week or a week and a half ago.

How much light should the be getting? What else could be causing this? Any help is greatly appreciated as the clock is ticking and I don't want to lose these babies.

Thanks!

[Time2Unite]

not enough light and high temps cause stretching.

put the light about 12-18 inches with a 400w, get an oscilating fan on them quick to strenthin the stem...also mist them with water...they will probably fall over but then they will fight to get back up to the light...makes em tough

[Guest]

when you transplant simply put them deeper..hows is the node spacing?

[GirlWonderGrows]

I tried to put them about as deep as the seed is long, this is suggested with other types of seeds. So far, there are no nodes. There's the seed leaves and the first set of true leaves about 1/4" long, just starting to fold out.
And yes, they are 4" tall.

[Guest]

like this
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/14652DSC01915.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/14652DSC01915.JPG)

[Guest]

Don't worry like Unicorn said when you transplant bury them deeper in the soil.

GCG

[FOF]

12-18'' w/ a 400 is a bit close for seedlings, imho; somewhere between 24-30'', dropping down a couple inches with each new node, was my 400W practice...

my first light was a 400 and i fried the crap out of some seedlings overnight @ about 15''... guess with an older or used bulb putting out fewer lumens than a newer one would, you could get a bit closer...

[Frozenguy]

12-18'' w/ a 400 is a bit close for seedlings, imho; somewhere between 24-30'', dropping down a couple inches with each new node, was my 400W practice...

my first light was a 400 and i fried the crap out of some seedlings overnight @ about 15''... guess with an older or used bulb putting out fewer lumens than a newer one would, you could get a bit closer...

that was due to heat not the bulb..

I keep my 600wattHPS 12" away from the tops of my seedlings. granted its aircooled, but I even kept my non aircooled 250watt MH (with the ballast on the back, so it was hot) about 8" from the tops of my seedlings and they had more stretch then my current seedlings. the temps were 85ish with the 250watt.. temps are 75 right now with the 600. temps low is the key!!

[SmokeRings]

Its not just lighting... ive found that when you dont flush out recycled soil properly, or put them in "hot" soil, they will stretch ridiculously. I think that might be the case with you

[Mackawber]

blue lights like flouros or MH help and keep the temps down too...

[Time2Unite]

12-18'' w/ a 400 is a bit close for seedlings, imho; somewhere between 24-30'', dropping down a couple inches with each new node, was my 400W practice...

my first light was a 400 and i fried the crap out of some seedlings overnight @ about 15''... guess with an older or used bulb putting out fewer lumens than a newer one would, you could get a bit closer...


i never have a problem, i like my lights close so i don't get stretching and my nodes are tight.....i put 1000w lights about 24-30" away for seedlings. u can get your lights closer then u think with air cooled hoods and good ventilation.

[kurlyq2g]

you wanna see some stretch?


http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/12810updated_044.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/12810updated_043-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/12810updated_043.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/12810updated_042.jpg

[Time2Unite]

are you using fluoros? if so they will stretch like that unless u got your lights about 1 inch away.

[southwind]

They're just so streeeeetchy!

They look "long and strong and dyin to get the friction on.."

Wow, how did you overcome it? Did it come out all right?

you wanna see some stretch?


http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/12810updated_044.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/12810updated_043-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/12810updated_043.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/12810updated_042.jpg

[alphacat]

LOL, Southwind... yer killin' me.

They're just so streeeeetchy!

They look "long and strong and dyin to get the friction on.."

Wow, how did you overcome it? Did it come out all right?

[pray4pistils]

Don't worry like Unicorn said when you transplant bury them deeper in the soil.

Ya, that's my recommendation, too. (That is, in addition to fixing your environmental conditions). A few weeks ago I experimented by scuffing the stem a tiny bit (with a nail file) up to the line where I'd eventually bury it. Then, I gooped it up with some cloning gel and then buried it in the coco/perlite mix (70/30). A few days later I had roots growing down the entire buried stem. :wink:

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17388veg_clone1-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17388veg_clone1.jpg)

[Verite]

You know you can fix broken sprouts with a scotch tape splint.


http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/5620Mc_Closeup-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/5620Mc_Closeup.jpg)

[Gardenstated]

lol hell ya friction it

[Time2Unite]

They look "long and strong and dyin to get the friction on.."




seedlings got back!

[Guest]

Go pick up a 40w CFL and put it a few inches above the seedlings with the HPS well out of reach, should keep them in control for a couple weeks until they are big enough to handle the big lights.

[GirlWonderGrows]

Thanks everyone for the advice. My seeds are stretched a bit more than kurlyq2g's, but they are also a bit further along, with the second set of true leaves begining to show now. I've moved them closer to the 400W MH light, they are now about 2 feet from it, and I put a fan in the room blowing on them.

Verite, thanks for the great advice about scotch tape splints. Does that cause any rot or damp off issues? I've got one broken, and because I'm dealing with so few seeds I'd like to keep as many alive as possible. I'd hate to grow them out and get fuck-all, after all that effort. What is the rate of success with that splint? I'll have to do that tommorow even if the success is low, I just want to know about any fungus risks I'm taking.


And pray4pistils, that rooting hormone on the stem is a great idea, I thought about it but probably wouldn't try it unless I heard it worked. Thanks for taking the plunge and letting us know! I wonder if you could do that with larger plants, if you wanted to sink them into the soil deeper for some reason... Or perhaps with very large plants to root the lower branches, causing more vigorous growth and flowering...

Thanks again, its off to bed with me now.
GWG

[Verite]

I never experienced any issues. When the stalk was strong enough I carefully cut away the tape with a razor. You dont want to pinch/squish it tight.. just enough to hold it. Without it they almost always die.

[GirlWonderGrows]

I taped up the broken one today, it looks pretty bad, though. The leaves are still looking fine, but the stem looks rough. We'll see if it pulls through. I'll report back.

GWG

[southwind]

I taped up the broken one today, it looks pretty bad, though. The leaves are still looking fine, but the stem looks rough. We'll see if it pulls through. I'll report back.

GWG
seed stretch

i
i put gentle fan on to help them buff a bit and then when they were getting along good
just buried that long stem very deep right up to seed leaves,

they are very much like tomatoes in that they will root anywhere along the stem

so in the end you will end up with a good deep root system, which is goodness out of disaster.

also odd as it sounds, I had a seedling break off of something so rare I would do anything to try to fix it.

I actually dipped it in rooting hormone [A SEEDLING ] it took awhile and it worked!

turned out to be a great mom!

[GirlWonderGrows]

Thank you all for the kind words and advice. I have an update: near total failure. I just got a new digi camera, and am glad to be able to show the world what can happen when good grows go wrong.

here are my seedlings now, please critique my technique!

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/13681seedlingsSOsad-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/13681seedlingsSOsad.JPG)


Now don't hate, I did the best I could under the circumstances. As you can see, the one with the splint didn't do so well, all in all 3 look to be alive, but there hasn't been much progress in the last few days. I'm basily resigned to failure, luckily these are old nirvana genetics that were going to get thrown out, but I'm not feeling too hot on seed starting at this moment.

GWG

[Verite]

Got enough peat in that mix? Im guessing theres soil in there somewhere?

[Guest]

you could put a strip of plastic around the cup, to make it taller, then add more soil, when i transplant young ones, the root ball usually falls apart.

when using HIDS for seedlings , you can add a CFL near the seedlings ,to help stop the stretch.

Ive heard of pipe stretchers befor, but not a seed stretcher :jump:

[GirlWonderGrows]

Yeah, Verite, theres suppose to be soil in there... its just regular black gold potting soil. The stuff is a bit heavy on the peat, I suppose.

I'll give that a try, mole. I'm looking at last ditch attempts at this point.

Thanks for all the input.
GWG

[Nept]

one 26 wat CFL about aninch away. Sprouted with heat in a pete pellet.
tranplanted into a red cup
ive never had stretch problems.. once i get the seeds to germ without mold attacks im good. i think CFLs are probably the best for sprouts because you can keep them close, real close. And it is just intense enough

[pray4pistils]

Hey, I finally bothered to take a look at the stem to which I applied some cloning hormone gel. Well, it pretty much looks like the bottom of a clone. :yummy: Just under the coco, there is a beautiful mass of white nubs and roots. On the other plants that I simply buried, there are just a few whispy roots coming out of the green stem. I noticed that the "hormoned" seedling was about 1/2" shorter than the others about a week ago. Now it is about 1/2" taller with a few more nodes and possibly more leaflet growth. :joint: