the Hand Watering coco thread [Archive] - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

Suby

01-08-2007, 02:46 AM

Im here also...
Might need some input on feeding with PBP line...

Thanks for helping out us little guys BoneCarver! :)

Xtra

Hey BC good to see you,
I'm glad your putting that skull of yours to good use. :wave:
We need a coco forum on IC, it is very much underrated.

I've used the PBPro in coco and I have 2 very important tips for you,

1 Pretreat your coco with a calmag formula.
and
2 Use the calmag formula everytime you fert.

PBPro is designed to do both hydro and coco but it only work if you supplement the nutes with the calmag formula, coco is a mag and calcium hog, most def. in a coco medium in the Cana Infirmary are calcium defs.
Also I've used the Canna coco and if you put seedlings in it without doing a pretreat with calmag you could get K toxicity, I put young seedlings in coco and then used PBPro and I had a K problem.
It is the initial element that is bound in the cationic exchange web that is inherent to coco so the wash balances it out, that's why BC suggest feeding to a 10-15% runoff, as well it flushes salt buildups out of the medium.

:2cents:

Rock on BC :sasmokin:

bonecarver_OG

01-08-2007, 02:47 AM

the hydroton works well in the botom - also does broken ceramic pieces and even washed gravel.

many times i break some cheap old pots to put in the bottom before i put the coco in. :D

bonecarver_OG

01-08-2007, 02:49 AM

never had any K problems really using coco canna nutes series:D thanks for the tips about the PBP line :D

BlueBear

01-08-2007, 02:57 AM

i think its more steady if planting the rockwool plugs about 3/4 into the coco.

i do the watering at this stage with a hand sprayer - making sure the coco around the rockwool has the same amount of humidity. later on i dont think this is a problem if the clone roots well and after that i only water around the rockwool - trying to avoid to soak the rockwool since the roots that the plant uses to feed will be further down in the coco. anyway still coco is a suchs an airiated medium that rot will in most cases no be a problem. rockwool is also very good at that.

i normally transfer before or when i can see a bit of roots stick out. i like transplanting when growing in pots. the plants definetly like it too :D

i would try to increase the amount of water feed to the plants - so the run off goes up to about 10% atleast. this is to make sure the roots are only having fresh water and the old stagnated water with used up oxygen goes away.

also i want to stress how usefull it is to use a res with airstones for ur water.

peace
Thanks BC I have a good idea of what to do now, just needed some asurance that I was on the right track and needed to be dialed in a little.
Adieu

bonecarver_OG

01-08-2007, 02:59 AM

no problem

Guest

01-08-2007, 03:38 AM

I have been hand watering with the PBP line for 3 weeks on these 6 S.A.G.E clones...

I feed em once daily with 1TBLS Pureblend Pro Bloom, 1tsp Cal-mag, 1tsp Hygrozyme per 1 GAL of RO water the entire time from clone till 20 days prior 2 harvest... 50/50 Botanicare COCO, Fox Farm Chunky Perlite

I couldn't be more pleased with the results...

Loving all the new COCO threads :yoinks:

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/11360COCO_Sage_CLones_3_weeks_ veg-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/11360COCO_Sage_CLones_3_weeks_ veg.JPG)

bonecarver_OG

01-08-2007, 03:40 AM

looks good :D

-VT-

01-08-2007, 03:41 AM

They sure look healthy... :yes:

gdawg

01-08-2007, 04:11 AM

BC great thread bro, i've been lookin for this one. i got a couple of questions. i just switched everything over to coco maybe a month ago and i'm lovin it. i mix perlite, coco, marine cuisine and then a little promix. i also add d lime & h lime. do i need this? i use the calmag every other watering and so far have been really impressed. i was lookin for some tips on using the "coco" outdoors this summer. my area gets decent rainfall but has been cursed by dry summers here lately. what can i expect as far as watering compared to soil. been doin it outdoors since the 80s i wanna post some pics but i'm kinda skittish ya know. outdoors i was using promix, worm castings and botanicare nutes. :joint:

Xtrakritical

01-08-2007, 04:13 AM

Hey P&P! Looking good bro...

Thanks for the input!
My first try with flowering clones, all was looking good...
Then I messed up going to heavy handed on the nutes!

I think the best thing to do, is to print out the next 3 months from Outlook or any calendar, and keep track... Then I lost my print out! lol

Xtra
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/205901_06_07_OGBagseed-Burnt-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/205901_06_07_OGBagseed-Burnt.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/205901_06_07_OGBagseed-Burnt-cl-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/205901_06_07_OGBagseed-Burnt-cl.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/205901_06_07_OGBurntNug-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/205901_06_07_OGBurntNug.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/205901_06_07_OGBurntPistils-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/205901_06_07_OGBurntPistils.jp g)

gaiusmarius

01-08-2007, 04:18 AM

Hey Bonecarver mate,

great to see you here with this thread. this is the guy who makes hand watering coco a snap.

i love your do's and don'ts list :yes: :D

don't treat it like earth! that's one i am always telling people too. not unless you are growing in earth. :D

peace :wave:

Guest

01-08-2007, 04:21 AM

No prob Xtra, I was told by my Hydrostore guy that when Using PBP lines with coco it is of up most importance to feed the plants the same amount every feeding.. NEVER more or less as he says it will throw the plants into a tail spin... I never asked why just bought my shit n obeing his rules, lol

SilverSurfer_OG

01-08-2007, 05:44 PM

I am growing in 100% coco coir and treating it exactly like soil... :bigeye:

The results so far are good. Into week 5 of flower, nice juicy buds, loads of trichs etc.

But... i am doing the flowering 100% organically so do i still need a runoff ?

Cheers.
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17803100_1367-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17803100_1367.jpg)

gaiusmarius

01-08-2007, 06:10 PM

interesting...

how exactly are you treating your coco SilverSurfer? what ferts and supplements? what's your watering plan like?

SilverSurfer_OG

01-08-2007, 06:38 PM

I am growing one plant under a 400w hps in a 16litre storage box.

I use monsta bud by Ozigrow. This has been supplemented with epsom salts every third or so watering and i have given doses of molasses, wormcastings, seasol (kelp) and just recently bat guano...

I also have given her a lil bit of superthrive and rhizotonic.

I water her usually every second day.

-VT-

01-08-2007, 09:53 PM

Gurgling is bad for the roots I was taught by a mentor back at OG a long time ago....I water slowly....and evenly.

I bought one of those sugar shakers from a cheap dollar place :D ....smaller than a handwatering wand....and works great

bonecarver_OG

01-08-2007, 10:17 PM

gdawg - since coco is made for hydro nutrition programs - it means u have to give the nutritions wich the medium is not providing - now this means with coco specific nutes there is less work involved with aditives like cal-mag etc

as long as the nutes u are giving have all the goodies ur plant wants - u are OK! :D

the rainfall should not be counted into the watering schedule - if anything see it as an extra flush. remember rainwater has a lot of nitrogen .. so in flowering this is something u might protect ur flowers from. a roof or just covering the top of the coco with something should do the trick.

in coco u will be better off the more u water - to a certain point :D

Gaiusmarius - hehe ;)

silversurfer - very nice results :D u are really using the coco as a medium to suport ur organic nutrients. thats not hydro growing but can give good results i bet :D when growing in soil the soil it self has part of the nutrition for the plants - since u are adding all of them this is like some kind of hybrid method.

only thing i can say is if u switch to coco specific nutes u can count on less work with the nutes, less problems with defiancies and carencies, and you will have a more dense end-product meaning bigger yields :D

bonecarver_OG

01-08-2007, 10:28 PM

VT - slow watering is definetly the way to go. i usually give a small splash first, then when the top part of the medium is humid i water once again to make sure all nooks and crannies are wet. i tend to use a small cup unless its a really big pot.

also i got to ad at this point:

it is possible to do a passive hydro grow watering by hand... :

the trick is to use trays and water on the tray from early on - this will promote hydro roots to grow and it will also make sure u can leave ur plants for a few days - even if u are growing in small pots. the only downside is when u need to empty the trays - if u dont have a tap or similar for draining - u might end up using sphonges etc

this method can be improved using airstones etc in the trays.

i do normally start my seedlings and clones in veg like this.

peace

JackKerouac

01-08-2007, 10:58 PM

I am hand watering a couple times a day with canna nutes, 10% runoff. I let them go a day and a half without water and boy were the ladies pissed! They must have been really transpiring to be so needy.

I am interested in a passive system so I could leave for a few days. Watering in trays sounds ok, but is a bit unpredictable. How about a wick system? How about those 2 liter bottle "aqua spikes"?

bonecarver_OG

01-08-2007, 11:00 PM

u would have to try it out and let us know :D

the tray method is quite reliable - as long as u know how much ur plants use :D but i wouldnt leave for a longer time without checking up on them. just a weekend etc :D

peace

Dalton

01-09-2007, 12:33 AM

Hey guys here's a good story for handwatering coco.

I started this plant from seed a few months ago. It was was in a a 32 gallon rubermaid DWC hydro setup. I was having alot problems with it and I never installed a way for it to drain. It was driving me nuts. I decided to switch to coco and all I did was pull out the net pot and held it over a 2 gallon pot and filled in with the coco around the roots. There was no stall at all!! the plant just Kept humming right along. So if anyones having problems with there hydro setup it seems it's ok to transplant right to coco. I now have handwatering and simplicity with hydro growth rates. Now this was only 2 plants I did this with and they were not in bloom at the time. But this seems to work.

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/14351treeday32-thumb.gif (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/14351treeday32.gif)

The wierd thing is I transplanted to this 5 gallon dishpan about a month ago
and everyday I water I can see the shape of the of the original container. The roots don't seem to be spreading around in their new home. Have you seen palnts get rootbound in 2 gallon Pots of coco bonecarver?

Great thread man. This place is filling up quickly with alot of good info
:yummy:

bonecarver_OG

01-09-2007, 01:08 AM

ive used up to 5 gallon pots indoors :D but i transplant just before flowering to make sure there will be enough space for the roots.

if the plant is in flowering i would not expect too much root growth after the first month.

peace

Guest

01-09-2007, 10:15 PM

I just transplanted into 3gal pots & was simply BLOWN away by the rooting the COCO promotes... 1gal pots for 3 weeks prior to the transplant :yoinks:

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/11360COCO_Roots-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/11360COCO_Roots.JPG)

-VT-

01-09-2007, 10:21 PM

That is nice...looks like an ice cream cake :) You didn't use any root stimulator type product? Just enzymes huh?

Guest

01-09-2007, 10:29 PM

I use Plant Success Granulated Mycorrihzal Fungi at transplants and Hygrozyme every watering...

COCO has added the FUN element to growing again!

bonecarver_OG

01-09-2007, 10:33 PM

very nice P&P!

-VT-

01-10-2007, 01:32 AM

I handwater several strains and different phase plants each watering...and I don't have enough plant numbers to justify seperate mixes (batches of nutrient)

What I now do is:
1. start with 2 gal of source water
2. add additives
3. adjust PH

>Next I add nutrient to reach desired EC for the smallest plants to be fed....(in my case two mental Floss seedlings currently).....

>After feeding the babies...I add nutrient to reach level for next set of plants to be fed at next higher EC (1.0 currently for me).....then I top off with source water if needed (no need this recent feeding)....adjusting PH....then hitting my 1.6EC target for my more mature ladies....

This system beats mixing 1/2gal just for two seedlings that only need a cup of nutrient for the two of them....rather than mixing seperately...I prefer this method...

For larger gardens (more plants at various stages) this is probably not beneficial...but for me this works well.....

peace

bonecarver_OG

01-10-2007, 01:33 AM

its a good tip :D

WAMEN

01-10-2007, 01:39 AM

thanks for the info OG! really nice thread keep it up :yes:peace :wave:

Guest

01-10-2007, 01:48 AM

Don't really have any tips that havn't already been stated. I do use the PBP coco specific nutes. I use exactly the dosage on the container and have had no problems at all. I do supplement with cal-mag but havn't this last grow and really can't see the diff.

bonecarver_OG

01-10-2007, 01:54 AM

wellcome in Mo! :D

Wamen - hows it going with the outdoor :D

peace

Guest

01-12-2007, 02:00 AM

hey bonecarver :wave:

I'm going to be using hand water'd coco pots on my next grow and i had a few questions about watering. I'll be watering once a day, with run off. Do you know roughly how much I'd need to water each plant in a 2 gallon container of 70/30 canna coco/perlite to arrive at around 10-15% run off? I'm just looking for some kind of rough estimate so I can figure out what size of container I am going to need for my nutrient mixing. I'll have (16) 2 gallon pots to water on a daily basis. I currently only have 3 gallon pails for mixing my nutrients in and it's not great as I wind up mixing 2-3 pails each time I feed, but at least I only do this every 4-5 days or so. With daily watering I have a feeling I am going to have to invest in some kind of res to mix in and hold nutrients but I have no idea what size it would need to be. I was going to pick up some 5 gallon pails, but if I wind up mixing 15+ gallons a day, I'd rather get a heavy weight garbage can to do it all at once. THanks for any help you can give, cya :joint:

gaiusmarius

01-12-2007, 02:16 AM

get a big garbage can, once the plants get a certain size they can easy take 1/2 gallon per watering. like you said mixing nutes every day is bull shit.

WhiteWolfman

01-12-2007, 03:26 AM

I am using coco for the first time and hand watering! DO you let the pots dry totally out like soil before you water? Or do you keep em a little moister & feed em more frequntly? Currently feeding/watering every 2-3days.

Using the house & garden organic coco nutes, anyone have experience with these products?

pray4pistils

01-12-2007, 03:38 AM

Definitely don't let the coco dry out completely between watering. The fine little hairs on the roots will die and it'll take forever to get them to regenerate. In my set up, I use a moisture meter to keep the wetness between "slightly wet" and "slightly dry". So, I keep it in the moist range always. Two of my plants were originally grown in soil which is still packed around the root balls. I shook out as much as I could and then plopped them in the new containers full of coco coir. It seems that I never have to water the soil portion at all because it wicks moisure out of the fiber area.

bonecarver_OG

01-12-2007, 04:21 AM

a rez for the water is definetly a must. the plastic garbage cans work really well. also big plastic containers for storage etc.

coco should never be dried up inbetween watering unless there is some really serious reason for it.

the run of is really not so messy - i try to keep the coco steadily at a equal humidity level more or less - that means when i water a big part of the water i put in flushes out - if it doesnt i just keep ading more glas by glas. i pretty much water untill i start getting run of and then the remaing water draining thru will replace and flush the coco in every watering.

peace :D

purcellville

01-12-2007, 05:49 PM

I started playing with Coco about 2-3 months ago. I am hand feeding and watering currently, and plan to continue with my veg area. Check out my veg/mom tray in 3x3 pots of pure coco.

http://www.wrug.net/photopost/data/507/medium/IMG_00012.JPG

I just put a few pots to flower and will probably continue by hand water for now. I have everything to do a comprehensive dripper setup, but I am concentrating on trying to have a perpetual garden of variety. This is making me think about bigger pots, I have some 5x5.

Anyhow check out the few young girls in flower.

Here is a Sensi Star, from clone @ 7 Days in a 3x3 Coco pot sitting on top of a waterfarm.

http://www.wrug.net/photopost/data/507/medium/IMG_00062.JPG

Here is Rez's Killer Apollo, from clone @ 7 Days in a 3x3 Coco pot sitting on top of a Waterfarm.

http://www.wrug.net/photopost/data/507/medium/IMG_0011.JPG

I will be adding Rez's Ice and some ECSD today.

Now on to nutes.... I have been using the PBP line, because that is what I still have a lot of sitting around. Surprisingly all looks well to me using this stuff. Now I have some of the Canna A+B, PK13/14, and Rhizotonic (sp?) on the way so i will see how much better it can get.

I will admit the PBP line is cumbersome to use. But with LK, Sweet, and bit of Budswell the results are spectacular.

Sweet smoking to all.

the cult

01-12-2007, 05:55 PM

Handwatered, on coco with some hydroton as well. I water every day or at least every 2nd. For future I am considering automated run-to-waste as its hard to keep up with watering with RL too.

Sour Jack, day 33:

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/12052DSC00250-med.JPG

AK-47, day 33 (indica pheno):

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/12052DSC00246-med.JPG

Coco is the best really.

Guest

01-12-2007, 06:54 PM

the cult,

what size square container are you using and how much water are you giving every day / two days?

Peace

bonecarver_OG

01-12-2007, 08:07 PM

nice pics all!

the cult

01-12-2007, 08:29 PM

the cult,

what size square container are you using and how much water are you giving every day / two days?

Peace

Various, but mostly 11 or 15 Litres. In this case the Sour Jack is in a 11L but the indica pheno of AK-47 is just in a 6.5L bucket. Water is hard to say, but about 0.5 litre for the 6.5 buckets, and I suppose about 1 litre for the 11L buckets. EC of 1.4 and PH of 5.8.
What is ALWAYS most important is that you have maximum space for the roots to expand in during first weeks of flowering, if you aint got space then you aint getting much buds. I veg in 1L buckets and transplant in 6.5, and the results are just tremendous, especially in coco where the roots grow at an unearthly (lol) speed.

JackKerouac

01-13-2007, 01:46 AM

NOICE. I dig the coco pics, all.

Using the house & garden organic coco nutes, anyone have experience with these products?

This is another one to look out for. I think Texas Hydro carries their line.

-VT-

01-13-2007, 08:38 AM

a rez for the water is definetly a must. the plastic garbage cans work really well. also big plastic containers for storage etc.
That's a great idea! I am gonna get on that project soon!....thanks fellas....
I am gonna start watering my plants less....I been getting too much runoff and it's costing me money. I am gonna try for 10%....or less...I been gettin' out of hand lately...and now that I am watching my budget it's more glaring to me
I added a layer of perlite to the top of my bags like a lot of folks and I think it's helping me battle gnats and keeping the surface moist....

Although with no EC meter I wonder if I'll burn the plants maintaining "mix reservoirs"....I need a EC meter lol

peace 'handwaterers'

bonecarver_OG

01-13-2007, 04:39 PM

whenthe plants are really small the run of can be very litlle too - as long as the nutes are weak :D

i use trays with coco in cups for my seedlings. the cupsa have holes to suck up the water i put on the trays. no run off at all at this stage. and the risk for salt build upp wont be high until much later - and then im flushing them out well anyway.

i start the handwatering from the second transplant of veg phase.

:D

-VT-

01-13-2007, 11:20 PM

hey Bones....lemme ask ya something...
The way I understand this and from my mistakes...is it safe to say that with more runoff and frequent waterings we can run higher PPM's? And if taking a "water as needed" soil approach run lighter on the nutes?
Watering less sounds like salt buildup....
More watering with good runoff flushes the medium preventing buildup....
Can't turn the thinker off when high on Sativas :D

Thanks for the help bro :wave:

Guest

01-13-2007, 11:58 PM

hey Bones....lemme ask ya something...
The way I understand this and from my mistakes...is it safe to say that with more runoff and frequent waterings we can run higher PPM's? And if taking a "water as needed" soil approach run lighter on the nutes?
Watering less sounds like salt buildup....
More watering with good runoff flushes the medium preventing buildup....

Excellent question -VT-

My question is... how would you go about properly watering a pot that holds 5 gallons or more? Obviously, it would take a lot of water to allow for any runoff, so would you have to run nutes at atleast 1/3 dosage to avoid any kind of salt build up?

bonecarver_OG

01-14-2007, 12:42 AM

VT - interesting questions :D

salt build up will really only become a problem if the coco gets time to get dry, (the water evaporate etc) - and the salt thats disolved in the water gets concentrated. if u use strong nutes and frequent waterings u can still get high salt level in the water just because of the nute levels. some plants can definetly get damaged from that.

frequent waterings and balanced nutricion programs are the most eficient.

u can allways try bumping the nutes a bit every now and then to see how the plants are reacting to it. sometimes some plant can handle in veg a few strong doses of nutes and just grow like crazy while others dont want nutes at all :D

but U are right. more or less.

when it comes to strength - i dont normally pump the nutes up untill the plants are asking for it. less is more :D

Indica sativa - thats a common missconception - the truth is a BIG plant in a big pot does use a lot of water - but the trick is to keep the coco loaded with water (not completelly soaked - just steadily wet) - it means:

water the coco bit by bit untill u get a deacent run off - then just frequently keep giving it small amounts of water for example with a pint glass.

- for example a 25 liter - 5 gallon pot can be completelly OK with getting about 2 liters of water a day. the run off wont be too big - - 10% of 2 liters is 2 dl... not that much waste really. still id say its better to try to get some flushing going on.. atleast as often as u can try to water a slight bit more.

peace all

Guest

01-15-2007, 05:25 AM

I was treating the coco like soil... although I was still giving my plants a small amount of nutrients each watering, I was not giving them enough to allow for any runoff.. I guess even with a small amount of nutrients, not keeping the coco properly wet caused some type of toxicity anyways. Thank you for your input amigo =]

bonecarver_OG

01-16-2007, 10:04 PM

we are all here to learn from each other :)

bonecarver_OG

01-25-2007, 04:55 AM

sometimes i make funny misstakes.

i was cutting holes in 130 small plastic cups and smoking spliffs before planting those seeds.. now yesterday we realize there was 2 that didnt have holes in the botom - and they have been about 1 week without water - atleast. since to be able to suck from the tray it needs to be able to have holes hehe.. they were alive - a lsdc and a PTK pure from tomhill.. so we got some sturdy genetics here :D they obviously got sorted out -lets see how they go.

Xtrakritical

01-25-2007, 07:49 AM

You potheads have a funny sense of humor! :pointlaug

Just stopping in to say hello friends :wave:

Xtra

bonecarver_OG

01-25-2007, 04:28 PM

i `prefeer to refeer to panic inducing f*ckups to that - makes it feel beter :D it was funny :D

the funny part is the seedlings were still alive with a healthy root system - even grown like in "soil" style - but obviously they are much smaler :D

bonecarver_OG

01-25-2007, 07:22 PM

this is our kali mist astroboy moms - our fave phenos of the cross from holygong :)

around the 2nd of january:

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC00215.JPG

after 23 days

last pics - the kalimist moms before a bit of special treatment. and they have given 30 + clones already,
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC00606.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC00606.JPG)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC00605.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC00605.JPG)

muddy waters

01-28-2007, 11:39 PM

axel neek

01-29-2007, 01:53 AM

If you didn't wash the coco before hand then that's almost certainly your problem.
Not all coco contains high levels of sea salts as some coco is grown inland.
But most if not all brands of coco contain high levels of potassium, and should be rinsed before using.
I don't think coco locks up magnesium, it's just without that initial flush, the excess potassium doesn't allow room for any magnesium within the matrix of the coco
or something like that

gaiusmarius

01-29-2007, 02:35 AM

hi bonecarver,

i have a coco problem. maybe.

i'm wondering if you or anyone else has any experience using coco as part of a soilless mix? i live outside of the U.S.-Europe-Australia hydroponics industry's range so I work with strictly raw materials. My mix I've been using for a year or two now consists of basically 1/4 of each of following 4 ingredients: coco, castings, vermiculite, and sand. to this i'll add some bokashi (an organic amendment from anaerobic decomposition of fish wastes and other stuff), some raw bone meal, some dolomite lime, and that's it. nitrogen is supplied via watering with diluted urine, and some comfrey and kelp tea is used during flowering, along with ash water.

i have had decent success with this formula, for instance here's nirvana ppp in 1.5 liter bottles:

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/9585ppp-orange-3-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/9585ppp-orange-3.jpg)
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/9585ppp-blue-3-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/9585ppp-blue-3.jpg)

however:
i'm working with some clones now, in smaller pots with the same basic mix, and i'm getting obvious signs of deficiency or pH problems: those twisted, leathery leaves, yellowing leaves (with no response to added nitrogen), signs that look like Mg shortage yet no response to watering with epson salts water. so i need a crash course on coco i'm afraid. i use a fairly cheap brand and i wonder if it could be that i didn't wash the coco beforehand to get rid of seasalt? or what about this tendency of coco to lock up magnesium--what causes that exactly? if anyone wants to venture a guess i'd be much obliged

thanks

in coco one of the big rules is if in doubt flush it the f... out, lol. yes a good flush before you start is essential, speciaally with the cheaper brands of coco. i assume you have no ec meter to tell you what level of salt build up you have in your medium. if you do measuring the run off will let you know right away if you have heavy salt build up.

normally speaking after the flush things should get back on track with a normal feeding. as you don't want to flush all the nutrients out and leave nothing for the plant to use.

the other thing is that some strains are more easy going then others. it might be that you need some good cannabis specific flowering nutes hesi coco a+b comes to mind. a bit cheaper then canna and just as good.

using urine is mainly interesting for vegging plants isn't it? lol, this post has brought back the feeding your plants with piss thread on overgrow. man was that a funny and interesting thread.

anyway, i'm no expert at using urine and such, but i do know that epsom salts are a bad idea in coco. maybe thats causing the problem?

good luck sorting it out.

muddy waters

01-29-2007, 03:51 AM

guys, much appreciate the info. i still need to read up on the chemistry and art of coco; i'd been able to neglect it previously as i was buying a slightly better grade, musta been pre-rinsed. well... from now on, i'm a soak the funk out of it, alright.

muddy waters

01-29-2007, 03:56 AM

sorry gaius, forgot to address your question about urine: i use it interchangeably with fish tank water and i use either throughout the life cycle of the plant, but once flowering has really set in, i'll use less or more diluted. the bone meal (P) and ash water (K) are my flowering ferts.

bonecarver_OG

01-29-2007, 04:00 AM

im with gaius about the flushing - when in doubt flush with ph adjusted water.

yeah - id be carefull with adding any extra salts into coco - id rather give them quelates. urine has a lot of salt in it - might also be part of the trouble.

try buying coco nutes over the net if u can. thats my only tip - and the second is to use only well documented coco. does ur brand have a webpage with extensive informacion?

i use israeli coco for rose growing - its od but it hs found its way here in spain. brand is calle PELE or something. i find it really good. but check up on the analysis of the serious companies. trust only the well known brands, because cocofibre is easy to produce but a bit costy to prepare for best growth condicions. therefore go for the a bit more expensive brands.

second note - spain and israel are two countries that use de salinified seawater in the tap water and it has faily high salt levels. the israelis are doing really interesting hydro experiments. i presumed since we are pretty much in similar areas the israeli coco works very well. even though i still mix my water down about 50% with distilled water. but the israelis are experimenting with quite high ec salty water wit good reults. i think they use in those cases nft since it flushes continuosly.

coco in it self (the good brands) has a low ph around 5.5 to 6 and that is too low for soil growing anyway. might cause problems maybe also in this case.

dificult one muddy :D

ah check if they have root damage.

peace all :D

muddy waters

01-29-2007, 09:08 PM

hola bonecarver,

heh... well actually i'm kinda boycotting israel and besides the market here in s. america only has local product anyway, of varying quality. i had been buying more expensive coco and now i see it was money well spent ey? i'm going to soak the cheap coco i bought for next time i use it, with regular tap water (pH ~7.3, very little carbonate buffer). the acidifying biological processes happening in the castings and nitrification should drop the pH into the 6-6.5 range.

shit that was stupid of me tho not soaking the coco first. but what's strange is that of 6 clones, while none are performing very well, 5/6 are at least green, just some twisted leaves, still growing, while only one, the largest, with about 9-10 nodes, really went on the fritz with yellowing leaves, red/purple veins, extremely slow growth, and now completely wilted leaves. i think i probably killed it by a variety of cruelties, the unflushed coco being part of it and overwatering probably also to blame now that i dug up the roots and see that they're yellowish brown, underdeveloped, not looking too pleased. so pH/nute lockout with suffocation would be the diagnosis.

i doubt urine was much of a factor since i moderate salt in my diet and wasn't recycling this mix so i really doubt the salts would be causing problems where they hadn't when i grew with the same exact technique (but different coco) before.

i apologize if this wasn't the place to discuss using coco as an amendment only. thanks a lot bone axel and gaius for the tips though! appreciate it

bonecarver_OG

01-30-2007, 06:54 AM

the name is pelemix

the company is from srilanka (INDIA) also has sales centers in israel and other big hydro growing countries like spain - because of the hydro culture there and here (im talking scientific research not how ppl grow in general) the huge amount of research has not to be neglected - even if u like israel or not :D we ARE talking science - not religion, politics or economics :D id hate to mix politics into a grow thread. u know what i mean - just to avoid flaming etc.

PELEMIX is represent here in spain, israel,india and srilanka. the page of info about this outstanding quality of coco:

http://www.pelemix.com/index.php?goto=bep&page_from=67

and

http://www.pelemix.com/index.php?goto=bep&page_from=187

if any one finds a similar analysis of other coco brands - it would be very interesting to compare them. all other cocobrands i have tried have given me really good results.

in the beginning of growing in coco most misstakes and troubles i had were due to nutes not made for coco. i have tried several brands of good coco brands - and all with similar results. maybe some hold the water less time etc.. but i was looking at the buds :D

in soil growing a ph aroun 6.8 to 7 is the best as far as i know - a low ph will give u trouble to take up nutes.

quote"Factors Affecting Fertilizer Uptake

Contact: Diane Relf, Extension Specialist, Environmental Horticulture
Posted April 1997

There are numerous factors that affect how easily and well trees and shrubs will take up fertilizers. The most important of these is fertilizer form. Generally, inorganic, fast-release, or liquid forms are faster-acting than organic, slow-release, or dry forms. Compared to synthetic fertilizer formulations, most organic fertilizers contain relatively low concentrations of actual nutrients.

Soil composition-- Soils high in clay particles will absorb (bind to their surface) more nutrients, while fertilizer will leach (wash through) faster through sandy soil. Organic matter in the soil increases its nutrient-holding capacity and contributes nutrients upon its breakdown.
Soil microorganisms-- Some fungi and bacteria may "tie up" nutrients while others convert the fertilizer to a form that the plant can take up. Some microorganisms are involved in mutually beneficial (symbiotic) relationships with plants. Rhizobium bacteria grow within the roots of some plants. They convert nitrogen from the air into a usable form for the plant while obtaining nutrition from the host plant.
Soil pH-- Extremes in pH affect availability of plant nutrients and the concentration of plant-toxic minerals. At low pH levels, calcium, phosphorus, and magnesium become unavailable and manganese can concentrate at toxic levels. At high pH values, phosphorus, iron, copper, zinc, boron, and manganese become less available.
Nutrient availability-- Nutrients may be present but may first require conversion to an "available" form that the plant is capable of taking up and utilizing. Conversion to an available form is affected by soil microorganisms, pH, soil moisture and chemical reactions.
Soil moisture content-- Most nutrients are taken up via the soil solution, so soil water is needed to dissolve them.
Soil aeration-- Oxygen is needed in the soil to help roots with uptake processes. Where there is no oxygen, such as in flooded sites, sugar cannot be utilized by the plants to produce energy for nutrient uptake. Decomposed organic matter helps develop good air-water relationships in the soil.
Soil temperature-- Nutrient uptake is faster in warmer soils than in cold soils.
Plant condition-- Plants under stress will be less able to take up nutrients, generally due to a reduced or damaged root system.
Competition-- If the roots of many plants occupy an area, a reduced amount of nutrients will be available for each. When using close spacing for vegetable plants, more fertilizer will be needed in a bed than in a conventionally spaced row garden. Weeds where present will take up nutrients intended for landscape or crop plants. Reduction of weeds will reduce fertilizer needs.
(Prepared by Virginia Nathan, Extension Technician, Consumer Horticulture, Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, VA 24061-0327, and approved by Bonnie Appleton, Extension Specialist, Nursery Crops.)

Visit Virginia Cooperative Extension test "end quote

the flush to drain is part of the secret of coco. keeps it allways clean.

this is the brand i was using before:

http://www.projar.es/pagi/h/una/horti8.html

a very cheap brand and local - its based just a few minutes away. but finally the salt levels and the ec were too high - but still growing the way i did i never had trouble with it. same brand of coco is producing most veggies eaten in europe.

yep ur right - those famouos spanish tomatoes and red peppers etc in the supermarkets are all down from my area :D all grown in coco hydro almost. impessive setups.

soaking coco in tap water will asure a higer salt level afterwards in the coco. use atleast 50% distilled water to get the salts out - think that the coco has been dehydrated so all the salts of the water used for soaking - gets sucked in the inside of the fibers and coir. instead distilled water will pull it out by the force of osmosis. simple :D

nice to learn about new techs muddy :D it is interesting -the discussion, please post some shots so we see how they are doing.

peace all :D

bonecarver_OG

01-30-2007, 07:05 AM

yellow ands brown roots are dead - try to get some enzyme to break them down - or u can even cut the by hand. root rot will kill a plant.

aaah - i forgot - ad a few splashes of hydrogensuperoxide into the water - this will areate the roots and maybe even break down dead material a bit. check ph before watering and adjust. i many times throw in a spash of it into the nute rez. or even to spray and clean clones. it kills funghie and bacteria but not plan mater at low mixes :D

peace all

axel neek

01-30-2007, 07:42 AM

Hey bonecarver, here's the link to the brand I use
here (http://vgrove.com/index.html)
i haven't really checked out their site, it's late already and I have to get up super early
so I don't know how much info they give
but thought ya might like to check it out

muddy waters

02-01-2007, 06:55 PM

bone, thanks buddy for all the info. i'm going to post some pictures this afternoon so you can make a better judgment.

thanks for the clarification on pelemix too; unfortunately we don't have it in my country (no hydroponics industry), but we do have some brands that are better than others. i need to stop being so cheap and buy the stuff that works (without being rinsed 100 times).

Guest

02-04-2007, 02:42 AM

gaiusmarius

02-04-2007, 04:53 AM

You shouldn't have to rinse too much if you use warm( or even hot) water for rinsing. It works better than cold for removing the salts. It's also best to use hot when rinsing your coco to reuse after a crop.

Cheers,
SH

hey suburbanhomeboy, that's some thing i'm gonna try. maybe not with hot water but nice and warm, it will be interesting to see if the salts come out with less flushing. sounds logical.

bonecarver_OG

02-05-2007, 03:40 AM

hm yeah it does :D interesting :D i allways try to water with room temp water - like around 20 :D even when flushing

:D peace

Grenouille

02-05-2007, 09:30 PM

i'm going to try a coco grow, handwatered.

what is the benefit of using COCO SPECIFIC nutes over regular hydro nutes?
Is there any difference apart from the npk value? :smile:

also - is it possible to start handwatering coco without an EC meter?
i haven't quite grasped the relationship of ec/ppm yet :chin:

i have hard-water if that makes a difference.

thanks for your posts bc, helping out a lot of people here, same for gaius :joint:

gaiusmarius

02-06-2007, 01:21 AM

hey Grenouille,

your questions have all been answered, but here goes a short version, for more detail do a search of this section.

when using good quality coco specific nutrients you are making your life much easier, you can then rely on the fert have the right nutrients in the right form to ideally suit the needs of cannabis in coco. hence when something seems not quite right, you know that it has to be a ph thing, or a dosage problem, through process of elimination you quickly arrive at the solution to your problem, what ever it might be.

yes they have differing npk ratios to average hydro ferts. coco makes plants use more N in flowering then any other medium. in fact my canna coco A+B nutes are for both veg and flowering.

you can hand water without an ec meter, bonecarver has been doing it the whole time without a ec meter. although i personally don't like not having both ec and ph meters. ec and ppm meters are basically measuring the salt content, which tells you how much ferts you are giving, ppm is the american system, ec is the european system, then you get cf, which is the same as ec. there is a way to convert ppm into ec, i don't know the formula off hand though.

how hard is your water? do you get lots of chalk inside your kettle? how is the ph of your tap water. the ec of the tap water would tell you a lot too. basically your tap water should generally be fine to use, even if it isn't perfect. in the worst case you can get an ro filter and use 50/50 ro/tap.

bonecarver_OG

02-06-2007, 02:46 AM

i agree with gaius :D coco nutes gives the best results with less problems.

ph and ec :D

i allways measure ph -the most important part - but its obvious we are going to get an EC meter when we can - they are really usefull :D this far it has worked fine though. BUT its only because:

i mix my tap water with distilled or de-mineralized/de-ionized water and that definetly gives a really low ec from start. but having an EC-meter i would know better how much distilled waterireally do have to use. it gets expensive with the distilled water. i buy 150 liters a month of it. its 0.50 euro a liter. that on top of the electricity bill is the biggest costs in my grow. if u can, put in a RO unit - if u want to grow more than a few plants.

we here have really hard tapwater - its full of Calcium and other minerals - wich really isnt good ph-wise or ec wise at all. if u live in a areawith heavilly treated water - do use RO - or distilled water to mix it down. too much distilled water isnt too good - so dont go over a 50% mix. i use often a mix of 1 part distilled and 2 parts tap water.

tap water quality depends a lot from area to area.

in the long run a RO unit is much cheaper than buying bottled distilled water - cant stop to repeat that :D

here in the desert like conditions i live in too much water use is punished with fines - so i think i might continue to buy distilled water too. u know they are thinking of limiting water use to 60-80 liters per person/ a house hold per day...

we need rain :D :badday:

peace all :D

gdawg

02-07-2007, 11:10 AM

hey BC i am crazy about this coco. i still got alot to learn but its going sooo much better than previous soil grows. i owe you too for gettin me interested and seein what can happen when treated right. started off gettin a couple of bricks to try it and then i found your thread and decided to change the whole getup! can't wait to take it out in the hills! hey look i am using a 2 stage water filter cuz my water is hard as hell and on top of that they are constantly workin on the dang mains around here, sometimes it comes out white lookin so i use no "tap' water. don't have an ec meter, ph out the filter 8. some of my girls towards the 6 or 7 week sstart to get bronze lookin fans toward the bottom. is this ok? BC that suxbig timeon your water situation. i pick on my friends that live in the desert about not having any dang water now i kinda feel bad about it.

bonecarver_OG

02-07-2007, 04:53 PM

adjust ph atleast to 6 and most should be ok - the burn u talk about is mag def it seems - its because u have used non coco nutes :D

peace bro

darrengary

02-07-2007, 08:21 PM

Hi folks! Just wanted to join in as we have been hand watering since the beginning of our grow, and, although we made a couple of mistakes at first, we soon got into a good rhythm.

Check our thread 4 pix of our grow.

Coco rules and that's that! :respect:
peace guys

bonecarver_OG

02-07-2007, 09:56 PM

well done darren! :D

gdawg

02-07-2007, 10:14 PM

thanx BC. i'm just waitin for the pbp bottle to run out. live three hours from the closest shop and they didn't carry the canna nutes last time i was there. i wanna post some pics bad but i read a thread in tokers den yesterday that kinda scared me. hey gary nice lookin girls! :wave:

gaiusmarius

02-08-2007, 12:19 AM

gdawg there is no reason to worry any more today then there was last week. if you keep your own private info private, then no one can "out" said info, whether by accident or on purpose. that thread should be treated as a warning to all members to never give out private info to a unknown entity on the internet. read the security threads and make sure your own security is in order.
peace

bonecarver_OG

02-08-2007, 12:52 AM

yeah - no paranoia needed :D

its enough paranoia inducing to carry slabs of coco to my flat in this scetchy neighbourhood - one day someone might realize those are for hydro :D

Suby

02-08-2007, 12:53 AM

Hey Muddy,

I have just 2 things I noticed, it might be nothing but here goes.

1 That is very little medium for a flowering plant or even a vegging plant at that.
2 Coco does not buffer ph as well as peat or soil, it easily takes on the ph of what you feed it so beware of using ashes and other ammendments that easily sway ph.

Peace

bonecarver_OG

02-08-2007, 07:05 AM

in coco the pot size can be much smaler than normal

but i think there was some specific reason he couldnt do it.

ashes .. yeah should let those break down in water for a long time - ash tea - and be very carefull since its highly alcaline, sieve it first. but ashes contains a LOT of nutricion :D i tried it in soil with other aditions and it workswell.. but in coco i know only about mudy here using it and this far it seems to go pretty well, huh? :D

peace

bonecarver_OG

02-08-2007, 07:09 AM

i veg perfectly plants for one month in 2 dl cups - thats as big as a normal small plasticup for water. the drain of is the important part and not to overwater :D

do cut holes that goes UP on the sides of the cups to let more air in and let them roots breath.

Suby

02-08-2007, 03:26 PM

I agree, pure coco in small containers is not a problem I used to flower them in 3gallon buckets and I'd get trees by the end.
From what I read though Muddy was using only a 1/4 mix of coco, the rest was soil, compost and perlite, not alot of nutrition there.

When I grew in coco I would put a 1" layer of hydroton in the bottom and a few small holes in the bottom, this worked well for especially during transplant, I hand watered every 2-3 days.

Peace
S

bonecarver_OG

02-08-2007, 07:07 PM

3 gallon pots for coco is big - u can grow huge in them.

now im putting my moms in 12 gallon containers - the biggest indoor containers for single plant i have ever used.

also on the side i have 70 liter (almost 2 whole slabs in the container) which i filled up with clones :D it will be a small grove in the end of veg.

i have stopped using hydroton in small pots - since they hydro pots i use have good drainage. only in big containers do i ad something in the bottom to asure more aireation. now im using high density styrofoam cut to chunks. but only in the really big containers. its rock hard but has alot of air :D and also it can hold a bit of water.

peace

Suby

02-08-2007, 07:55 PM

Yep they were monsters, I only needed 2 under my 430W closet setup and they filled the room nicely, I'll look into using styrofoam as I have alot of it and as of now I'm out of hydroton.
I have a soil mix with 25% coco in the works for next month so we'll see how it stacks up to an all soil mix.

Good thread Bonecarver, keep up the good work.

Peace
S

bonecarver_OG

02-08-2007, 09:43 PM

make sure the styrofoam is of the high density - if not it might get squashed by the weight of the coco.

peace :D

gdawg

02-09-2007, 10:53 AM

hey there BC and gauis :wave: sorry bout the earlier paranoia, i quit smokin cigs last week and it may be affecting my judgement :pointlaug anyhow here are some pics keep in mind they were transplanted from soil in 2 galls thats why they are in the 3galls. the first couple are unknown strain and the third is chronic. i think the chronic really needed more nutes than the others. i GOT to get on the canna!! last pic is the new batch in coco from the get-go! some chronic, nl5xhaze, and bagseed. :joint: thank you so much for ya'lls help!
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17717bonnie_pics_069-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17717bonnie_pics_069.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17717bonnie_pics_071-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17717bonnie_pics_071.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17717bonnie_pics_074-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17717bonnie_pics_074.jpg)

gaiusmarius

02-09-2007, 06:13 PM

nice work gdawg, it's looking like a nice and healthy grow. you are right to be cautious, make sure you never give out any identifying info about your self and maybe even use a proxy and always change the name of your jpeg, as your camera leaves identifying markers in the numbers it gives the pics. use common sense, no pics of your house, car or family etc, lol :biglaugh:

anyway great looking grow man, it's gonna be quite a trim party when the time comes.:D

bonecarver_OG

02-13-2007, 05:19 AM

gdawg

02-13-2007, 09:57 AM

lookin good BC :wave: its fuckin unreal how much water these girls use when happy and in the perfect medium! i'm about to move and set up a new room and definetly lookin into drip systems. maybe hand water through veg but for sure drip for 12/12. i'm watering every night now its gettin out of control!

bonecarver_OG

02-13-2007, 05:38 PM

hehehehe :D thats why i allways transplant before flowering into much bigger containers - to be able to lock more water for the plants in the medium. its true small pots gets dry really quick in flowering :D

its hard work but it can be done!

with out any doubt drippers is less work hehehe :D

for hand watering coco in flowering i recomend at least almost 2 gallon pots or more - to work less :D

hehe im going to use a lot of 1,5 gallon pots this time :D i have still have a pump and drippers i can connect if necesary - atleast to the ones needing most water :D but im far from needing it yet :D

lets see as soon as i start trans planting.. in a few days :)

peace :D

baryl89

02-13-2007, 09:35 PM

I cultivate first time in coco I have five 10 l of flower-pots as how many nourishments I have often to water to pour waters to win over flower-pots ??

bonecarver_OG

02-13-2007, 09:50 PM

u mix the nutrient in the water - amount depends on state of plants - and water the pots every 1-2 days :D dont ever let it dry.

start low with the nutricion and go maxing up :D

peace

Caligrown

02-23-2007, 09:24 PM

its getting going :)

now hand watering around 105 plants all included :)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC00984-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC00984.JPG)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC00985-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC00985.JPG)

What's up BC?

In the beginning of this thread you recommended Canna coco. Looking at these pics the coco in your pots seems pretty course. Were you recommending some kind of brick coco from Canna or the 50l coir dust bag product? I am really trying to find something more course than the 50l bag product.

TIV -Cali

bonecarver_OG

02-23-2007, 10:28 PM

i recomended the canna coco nutes :D

but i dont use their coco. i find it expensive compared to other equal brands.

try if u can get pelemix or cocopeat - both trademarks. they are more course and chunky.

peace

exactlywatt

02-26-2007, 06:11 PM

Damn bonecarver I'm impressed!

I grew these in 5 gl pots with coco, and used FloraNova Bloom following the "lucas formula".
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6855day_34_009-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6855day_34_009.jpg)http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6855Gonzo_1-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6855Gonzo_1.jpg)http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/685556_days_003-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/685556_days_003.jpg)

Hand watering coir has been a piece of cake so far...:smile:

bonecarver_OG

02-26-2007, 06:14 PM

looks very good! :)

Ono Nadagin

02-26-2007, 06:40 PM

Heya Cali

If your looking for a corse coco I recomend B'Cuzz bounce blocks... it s very corse
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/22DSC00202-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/22DSC00202.JPG)

I mix one block of bcuzz bounce with one brick of botanicare
coco

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/22DSC00203-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/22DSC00203.JPG)

and here is the 2 combined
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/22DSC00212-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/22DSC00212.JPG)

I really like the feel of the two mixed... together they fill a 5 gallon bucket.. the Bounce is about $5 a block and the botanicare brick is $2.5

Caligrown

02-27-2007, 08:45 AM

Thanks for the hook up ono. Just earlier today I mixed up a block of Sunleaves coco with 50% canna bag coco. I looks very similar to your blend. I'll post some pics tomorrow. We are thinking the same things regarding the coco. IndicaSativa commented on using courser coco too.

I am going to run side by sides to see what I can learn about the different cocos.

One side of me is thinking that the finer grade the coco the better ability to hold water and nitrients for the roots. The other side is thinking like a clay pellet ebb/flow system where it is hydro and you are frequently soaking the roots and therefore providing the roots with more oxygen???? :chin:

So we will see the results of the test

-cali

gaiusmarius

02-27-2007, 06:28 PM

i look forward to hearing how it goes with these coarse/fine coco mixes. bone provides a link to some layered coco in grow bags and slabs, prety cool idea, the top layer is made of the fine coco dust, while the bottom layer is made of the coarser 20 to 50mm long fibres. very interesting.....

bonecarver_OG

02-27-2007, 06:58 PM

:D im happy u found the link interesting :D

i do find those ppl really doing some new fresh inventions - lets just see when it hits the growshops :D

peace :D

asa42

02-27-2007, 09:49 PM

i read that using epsom salt is not recomended w/ coco, does it have to do w/ salt build up?
also, is there any other way to add magnesium beside epsom or ferts?

bonecarver_OG

03-04-2007, 09:17 AM

using adecuate coco nutes - the mag factor becomes less of a trouble.

if u add magnesium chelates - they will be rapidly accesible also in coco - and not become much of a problem.

i usually use a magnesium/iron chelate - if that problem turns up.

peace

-VT-

03-08-2007, 01:18 AM

Esalts wash Ca from the mix....and that's not good. I have used esalts succesfully with hard water before (with enzymes). If you don't have enzymes, flush every week with water

Best thing to do is what Bonecarver suggests....if you're adding esalts...something's wrong....

I used esalts to offset Ca in hardwater (I wanted some Ca flushed from the mix)....with low TDS water I ended up just chopping a couple plants they were so screwed up from adding esalts

Daleykid

03-12-2007, 03:29 AM

Hello all

the hydroton works well in the botom - also does broken ceramic pieces and even washed gravel.

many times i break some cheap old pots to put in the bottom before i put the coco in. :D

According to THIS (http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1251.html) university fact sheet adding pebbles/gravel to pots to ensure drainage is a growing myth and could even be considered bad practice.

"The idea still persists that drainage from containers can be improved by adding a layer of coarse material, such as gravel, to the bottom of the container. In reality, this makes matters worse because the saturation layer is simply moved up, reducing the unsaturated portion of the container"

bonecarver_OG

03-12-2007, 03:37 AM

well - in coco it just doesnt aply :D

still i just do it in really big pots :D and it does work well.

got to be for the coco :D

peace

Daleykid

03-12-2007, 03:48 AM

I think it's a leftover relic from using terracotta pots which tended to have just one central drainage hole :chin: It's average particle size that's the key to good drainage. I use quality bagged coco (Canna or H&G) and used to cut with a little Perlite, now I don't even bother with that.

bonecarver_OG

03-12-2007, 04:32 AM

in small and normal sized pots i dont bother with it - only in really huge pots (40 liters etc = 10 gallon) where the weigth of the coco makes it get a bit compressed in the botom of the pots - thus i ad big chunks of something to give more surface area for drainage - than only the drainage holes them self.

make the math - instead of having x number of holes with a limited diameter with quite limited surface area for the flow of water - against having the whole botom part of the pot as the drainage holes themself.

more than help drainage - this really does add to the amount of air in the root zone - since there is a lot of flow going on.

cutting edge coco cultivating technology involve slabs with a botom layer of more coarse fiber for added drainage.

remember hydroculture is not the same as soil culture where only limited amounts of water is used in most cases.

hehe - the link is about soil growing - explains it. soil is not like coco..

what that test is really saying is that soil gets compacted at the bottom part - and adding "gravel" just moves the compacted and drenched soil up a bit.

exactly for that - i dont use gravel. since the particle size is not to my likeing. ASMOF i try to make sure there is NOT a layering thing going on (since that just presses the coco flat against it - just like what we are trying to avoid) - rather mix the chunks into the bottom part gradually - having a higher concentracion of it in the botom and mixing it up with the coco a bit the first 4-5 inches of the HUGE pots. its more complicated to explain than it really is to do.

but only bother with really BIG pots.

please check back to page one and check the only "DONT" in red :D

but its true normal sized pots (up to 12 liter - 3 gallons) are completelly ok with out it - as long as the pots have ok drain holes :D

in small pots its a loss of rootspace really most of all. since the hydroton doesnt suck up nute-water as the coco does the roots touching the hydroton gets burnt when the hydroton gets dry (it dries much quicker than coco) and get damaged.

id agree on it beeing bad practise in that case too :D

peace

gaiusmarius

03-12-2007, 05:04 PM

very interesting post bonecarver. very true about the big pots and coco compression.
about the hydro ton at the bottom, doesn't the coco make its way into the hydro ton layer? surrounding the balls with coco? i have been thinking about a layer of hydro ton under my slabs, for the roots that grow under the slabs into the table rills. but i guess it's not the right thing to use? because it's very true that it drys much quicker then coco.

bonecarver_OG

03-12-2007, 05:31 PM

why not just throw some loose coco on the trays?
with a felt cloth underneath to make sure it doesnt get into the filter etc?

also Vermiculite should work well
- i before have put clones in mini pots on top of both coco layers or vermiculite to make sure the roots get humidity and air while they are waiting for transplant to bigger pots. it works well - only drawback is i had to be very carefull transplanting not to damage the roots. since they seem to spread out really well :D

if u put in the hydroton or chunks of "x" (i use highdensity iso-pore) in the botom and carefully put the coco on top - it does not get mixed really - it stays as an separate layer. only if u stir it it will get into the hydroton.

allways a small bit will find its way into the hydroton - but once the coco is in the pot and etc - it doesnt "leech" into the hydroton at all. when watering it doesnt seem to create ever a flow strong enough to pull the coco with it. also the botom layer of coco is the part where most of the roots are - and they also help to keep it all nice and tidy in their place :D

so really using big pots i start with putting a good layer - about 2 inches minimum of chunky drainage material - after that i start mixing the dranaige material with the coco in my hands before i put it in the pot - using a higher amount of coco for every few handfulls.

i got to say i find the isopore chunks being a good manner to aireate the botom of the pots - but it also dries out quick.

the best i think would be really coarse chunks of coco in the bottom - or similar..

but im yet to find coco coarse enough.

peace

Daleykid

03-12-2007, 09:15 PM

please check back to page one and check the only "DONT" in red :D

I have tried to stress this on other forums as often as possible.

I still think that paper makes some good points though IME coco is extremely difficult to overwater, I've tried but it just runs out the bottom of the pots.

BTW I handwater 4Ltr rose pots pure coco once daily. Done it this way for 5 years and getting fed up with it now. Might set up a drip system or go back to NFT.

bonecarver_OG

03-12-2007, 09:26 PM

over watering only becomes an issue in bigger pots - where the weight of the coco is giving the same trouble as mentioned before. :D

i hate watering everyday - thats why i use big pots so i dont have to - every other day max is enough work for me. if it gets any more than that i connect the drippers - the truth is work and life is very important too - and watering many plants is quite time consumeing.

the paper was an interesting read :D

im now giving a try to really small pots (a quarter gallon) and it also seems to work fine.

actually at the moment im flowering in, 1 liter, 5 liter, 7,5 liter, 12 liter, 40 liter and one 70 liter pots all of them get watered with the same intervals besides the super tiny
pots that get water very often (its a sturdy african sativa so it seems to be able to handle drought, salt etc with no problem - neither it does seem to need rootspace.

coco truely is very versatile.

peace

heres an example of the african sativas going for it! these specific ones got cut earlier but still got a few more left growing :D its interesting they are as big as the plans in 12 liter pots!

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC01136-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC01136.JPG)
a 7,5 liter beer-cup of plastic :D with one 90 cm tall sativa :D check how small the 40 cm bong is behind them!

PuttPutt33

03-18-2007, 12:28 AM

Hey guys i just saw this thread, I have been a member for some time but for some reason i can do everything but post images. Anyways, this is my second grow, my first was hydro, This time i purchased some cocogro from bonticare. I have a hydro hut mini, with a 3x3 ebb and flow from American agritech, and a 250 on them now, but when i flip i got a 600aircooled. Anyways I didnt know anything about coco, the guy at the hydro shop said it was great and to water 2 times a day, treat it like hydro. That is what i have done. But i am wondering if i should flush it ever, And what is this runoff thing? I have a 20 gallon res. My nutes are fox farm grow big, Magical by technaflora, and thrive alive b-1 red. My plants.9. look pretty good but nothing special i would say. They are 3 weeks from seeds popping, I topped half of them at the 3rd internode. Anyways I was just wondering for some good tips, If i am doing something wrong. Also i mixed my coco which was 65-70 liters of media with 8 liters of perlite.

Guest

03-18-2007, 12:47 AM

Splifted

03-23-2007, 01:40 AM

Right now I'm growing other things in coco simply because my current situation doesn't allow me to grow weed at the moment. I have harvest 1 4 plant crop in soil before, but I want to switch to coco & I figure I might as well learn now instead of wasting my time.

Anyway, I have 5 different kinds of pepper plants in botanicare cocogro (i got a 5kg brick) mixed about 60/40 or 70/30 with perlite. I'm feeding them Hesi coco as per directions on the bottle(the peppers seem to be loving this shit), pH'd to 5.8. I've been hand watering the 5 8" pots with 4 L total every day and having about 20% of what I feed run through to trays that I just pour out. The plants have been in the coco for a little over 1 week, I bought them from a nursery and washed most of the soil off before transplanting. They never once showed a hint of shock, the leaves have been perky and green the whole time.

Anyway, I just have one question. My pots are still pretty moist all the way through the next afternoon when it's time to water. So far, the plants don't seem to mind this, but my brain being used to soil keeps telling me it isn't right. So should I let them dry out a bit more before watering (not dry, just a bit drier) and go every 2 days or keep doing as I'm doing and watering every day?

I can't wait to finally get to grow some herb in this stuff....all of your pics are making me jealous.

SEEDYNONO

03-23-2007, 01:48 AM

if the water drains through the coco well and doesn't seem to get stopped up anywher e when you water.. and runoff comes fairly fast.. then i think you should be fine watering everyday and keeping it wet. the water pulls new oxygen down to the roots with it if the drainage isn't blocked up or the coco hasn't compacted strange.

i'm watering everyday and trying not to even think about overwatering like i used to with soil..

bonecarver_OG

03-23-2007, 02:18 AM

i want to have a follow up thread on those peppers :)

its interesting!!

peace :D

Splifted

03-23-2007, 09:03 AM

seedy: thanks for that input man, I'll keep it up til they give me some sign of not liking it, so far all 5 plants look happy

Bonecarver: Sure thing. I have a bunch of new seedlings too that just sprouted over the past couple days in jiffy plugs. The ones from seeds are the varieties i really want, the live ones are ones I could find at local nurseries.

bonecarver_OG

03-23-2007, 04:52 PM

awesome - i like any gardening - and the more when it includes coco.

i have grown habaneros - they are EVIL chillies peppers - way too strong :D

i look forward to plant big red sweet peppers :D

have fun mate :D

peace

highonthechroni

03-25-2007, 08:24 PM

High, I'm looking to keep some mother plants in coco. This will be my first time using the stuff. I've read a few threads but just need a hand to get me going.

Can I use fine dolomite lime as a pH buffer? I take it I would add a little when I mix the coco in the beginning. How much lime do I use per litre of coco/water and how often would I need to apply it?

I have Biobizz Grow and Bloom nutes, can I use those? Must I also get the Biobizz Fish Mix? Should I rather use General Hydro Flora 3 part?

Thanks in advance! :wave:

-VT-

03-26-2007, 07:10 AM

I am very new bro.....and you may wanna disregard anything my dumbass has to post...but here goes :D
Can I use fine dolomite lime as a pH buffer? I take it I would add a little when I mix the coco in the beginning. How much lime do I use per litre of coco/water and how often would I need to apply it?
Silver Surfer_OG says adding dolomite lime has made the biggest impact for him compared to grows of past....he says it adds Ca and Mg....as for application...I don't know...maybe hit him up, or hit his thread...
As for the nutes....try one and if you mess up...then switch to the other....or try them both and stick with what's working or less expensive....
I have experience with GH 3 part...good stuff...I've had success with 3 different nute brands in coco (none are/were "coco specific")....and read claims of success regarding others' nutes.

peace :wave:

highonthechroni

03-26-2007, 12:08 PM

Thanks -VT- :D

I'll just wait a bit more to find out about using dolomite lime. Since coco is good for hydro, methinks I'll go for the GH 3-peart.

SilverSurfer_OG

03-26-2007, 09:33 PM

Hey fellas.

Dolomite lime has worked well in my coco mix and also some good quality soil.
The cal/mag is slow release and is absorbed as needed. Its also very affordable... :yes:

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Coir
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.

:smoweed:

SEEDYNONO

03-26-2007, 10:10 PM

first root check since i started these in coco.. these are young plants.. but starting to take off fast! st8 root Pr0n compared to soil..

:yoinks:

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/10354OGKush_1_CocoRootporn-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/10354OGKush_1_CocoRootporn.JPG )

Splifted

03-27-2007, 01:46 AM

Well, the tomato is now growing quite fast, the peppers still haven't shown much noticeable growth, but they aren't the fastest growing plants anyway. I also added a dwarf blueberry plant to the patio. Its more of a long term project though, it takes 1 year or 2 to mature and produce fruit. But it loves moist acidic conditions, aka coco coir, so I'm hoping for good results.

Haha, the one way to find out if it will work is do it huh? The blueberry plant just arrived in the mail this morning, I tried to wash off the rootball (wasn't happening, the shit was in peat & the small roots weren't letting go of it) and got about 1/4 of the peat off & transplanted it to a fairly small pot with coco/perlite. Soaked it with the normal nute solution the peppers & tomato seem to be loving.

I'm interested to see how this plant is gonna do....mmm, blueberry dro errrrrr I mean 'dro blueberries :)

bonecarver_OG

03-27-2007, 03:12 AM

ive been thinking about ordering cloudberry seedlings - if they would survive the trip - they must really love coco since they grow in wet acidic bog areas and they also like good amounts of nutes :D

peace

SEEDYNONO

03-28-2007, 02:26 PM

i like this hand watering coco business.. real nice fast growth, no color fade at new growth tips, no droop and i water them through and through everyday!

ok kush s1 f2 ala jlp.. not very old at all.. i forget :chin:

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/10354Seedlingsogkush1_1_Growin g-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/10354Seedlingsogkush1_1_Growin g.JPG)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/10354Seedlingsogkush1_2_Growin g-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/10354Seedlingsogkush1_2_Growin g.JPG)

bonecarver_OG

03-28-2007, 07:47 PM

looks good :D

THC4SIM

03-28-2007, 09:59 PM

You gotta love Coco,
im using Canna Coco and handwatering the Canna A+B, Cannazim, & the Boost £££, 11ltr pots watering every 2-3 days...
i am currently only 4-5 days into 12/12 and wondering when the best time to add PK 13/14 to the mix,
a week later like Canna recommend or has anyone else got any tips for using PK 13/14.. (its ok guys, ive found it now..)

in this room:
4 x Soma NYCD
4 x Rez Basic Diesel
4 x F2 Bogbubble
4 x Magnus DoubleDutch

heres some shots
2 weeks ago, 14th march
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/103914_march-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/103914_march.JPG)

Today 28th march (the growth rates are shithot!!)
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/103928_march-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/103928_march.jpg)

and heres a shot of one of the DoubleDutch out of the room and light
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/103928_march_DD-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/103928_march_DD.jpg)

Looking forward to picking some brains at the 420!!!!

highonthechroni

03-28-2007, 11:09 PM

Lovely plants THC4SIM! :D

THC4SIM

03-29-2007, 10:12 PM

Cheers! HighOnTheChronic :D

a few shots from a Bogbubble i grew from seed in Canna Coco,
from last year i think? :chin:
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1039IMG_1241-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1039IMG_1241.JPG)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1039IMG_1242-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1039IMG_1242.JPG)

coco is the only way to go!!

gaiusmarius

03-30-2007, 05:44 AM

lovely looking plants man, great work. :yes:

you can add pk as soon as they have the first real flowers, normally about 14 days into 12/12. only add about half dose and reduce the normal nutes a bit too. only use it for a couple of waterings, then go back to A+B until 3 to 4 weeks before harvest when you can add another dose of pk, this time full dose on top of your normal nutes. unless she is nute shy in which case yu reduce the normal nutes a bit before adding the pk.
peace :wave:

THC4SIM

03-30-2007, 11:51 AM

Cheers Gaius :wave:

i suppose i should start a new thread really,
ill take some more pics over the weekend and start a new thread

the 4 soma NYCD's are getting out of hand!!!

alexnalaskaOG

03-30-2007, 04:07 PM

watering every other day. girls range from3/7weeks. pots 1to3 gals. nycd, bog bubble, buddah sis, nlXshiva, afgani hash plant all on full nutes. using ghbb and cha ching, adding 1 tsp epson every other watering. black domina and lemon 1/3 dose, they are very sensative. I want to know if I need to start watering every day? Would this increase yeild? all is well and growing well, im just trying. hand watering perpetual grow. was really bad start after growing 10 yrs in soil. latest generations back in soil:)

alexnalaskaOG

03-30-2007, 04:20 PM

latest gens back in soil for last 6weeks @least, but now that im seeing what coco is capable of i will use it for single strain grows, but for my perpetual, soil is the key to ease w/good results. thanks to you all and this well of info my butt was saved. so thanks!

stevr59

03-30-2007, 09:26 PM

hey guy was thinking what are your thoughts on using ac condensate water for coco my ac is putting out gallons of it and since i think it mostly distilled water could it be used. only thing i was worried about is algae coming out of it if this would cuz proublems.

gaiusmarius

03-31-2007, 02:57 AM

hey alex be careful adding epsom salts to coco, have seen it go wrong many times. coco gives off plenty of cal and there is enough mg in most ferts as long as your ph is kept low enough so the plant can actually use the mg. anyway, if you have been watering every other day yand the plants look good, then there is no need to change. if you feel they could look better then yes once a day will soon clear things up as long as your nutes are geared to coco.

stevr ac water should be very pure no? i see no reason not to use it, check the ph and ec and if both are cool then go ahead and add it to your tank. just be sure that it's not more then 50% of the tank so the rest is tap water with the trace elements and calcium your plants need and most nutes expect the water to contain.

later :wave:

stevr59

03-31-2007, 04:08 AM

alexnalaskaOG

03-31-2007, 04:22 AM

thanks gaiusmarius

gaiusmarius

03-31-2007, 05:20 AM

yes stevr59 sounds like your tap water is the better option. probably the ac is old and there is shit inside the thing causing the water not to remain pure. mind you maybe thats normal for ac units. actually it's the dehumidifiers that make clean water from the humidity in the air.

stevr59

03-31-2007, 06:02 AM

well i was looking for pure water to feed my flytraps they said rain water or distilled water only but it has not rained here in weeks ans i am out of rain water, but was thinking hell if it good for fly traps how about coco last time i check my rain water it was 10 ppm with a 6.8 ph but i did fill my hot tub up with tap water and letting it sit for a few days thats should be ok to feed the traps with. oh funny thing to i got my mex plant out side all day in full sun and it stretching bad and i don't know why not sure if it lack of nutes or what so i gave it a light dose of 290 ppm ferts today with no run off all the leafs have normal color. other than it stretching like it was under low light or should i keep watering with plain tap water but every day now? it still has it baby leafs still nice and green it just over a week old now

alexnalaskaOG

03-31-2007, 06:44 AM

epson salt? hope not, but i have black starting on edges of top leaves moving from stem forward & in the top cola and steadily going down one of my afganies. any ideas? in my past black has ment bad. fungus gnats? any thoughts?

stevr59

04-07-2007, 05:22 AM

i got a question i got a seedling in its 3 week growing in a 6 oz Dixie cup with straight coco and feeding it floranova nutes 290 ppm and 5.8 ph i been watering it once a day and today i notice the leafs where a lil droopy after been out in the sun all day i was wounding should i start watering once a day now and should i start upping the ppm a lil. other than a lil droopy leafs it looks healthy.

Guest

04-07-2007, 06:16 AM

what kind of lights are they under...? I have mothers under floros that dont even take that much Floranova without burning them...

SEEDYNONO

04-07-2007, 06:31 AM

my 3-4 week old blueberry's need water twice a day in 16 oz dixies under 600 hps.. make sure you aren't letting them get too dry (light weight) i'd go to watering once a day for sure tho.. if they are outside under a bright sun they surely will be drying out..

dunno about the feeding.. i'd keep it steady until they get a little bigger or show you they need it.

stevr59

04-07-2007, 08:13 AM

i keep them out side under full sun and then bring them in at nite and place them under 80 watts of flos. so far it still nice and green no yellowing at all no tips burns i been giving them 290 ppm for a week now and i guess i need to flush it with pain water in the next day or so still waiting for it to get root bound so i can transplant into a 1/2 gallon pot. but today was the frist time i seen the leafs drooping a lil just wanting to make sure it was time to start waiting twice a day.

bonecarver_OG

04-07-2007, 04:42 PM

seedlings i keep in the shadow outside untill the leaf bush is big enough to shade the pot a tiny bit /a foot or something)

the tiny roots dont usually suport too much strain early. - anyway they grow perfectly in the shadow the first weeks outside :D watering too much that early outdoors might make ur roots grow less - and be less prepared for a moment of drought. (like a heat wave etc).

try let them harden of a bit and im sure in a week or two they should be loving it. the sun is so incredibly strong :D

peace all :D

what ended like this:
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651PICT5384.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651PICT5384.JPG)

started like this :D see how they are kind of hanging a bit - its because they have had a bit too much heat and sun hehe :D but soon enough they get used to it :D

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651PICT3699.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651PICT3699.JPG)

the product:

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651PICT5435.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651PICT5435.JPG)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651PICT5437.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651PICT5437.JPG)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651PICT5439.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651PICT5439.JPG)

gaiusmarius

04-07-2007, 05:13 PM

oh yeah, that's the shit man :yes:

lovely looking pics, plants and macros. :wave:

Guest

04-07-2007, 05:20 PM

very nice ,,u cant beat the coco and your pics help prove our theories

alexnalaskaOG

04-08-2007, 05:35 AM

been watering now daily for over a week. all looks great. coco is good stuff. /the black was purple:) purty... pics look good bc. you have perlite on those?

NoNameNoshame

04-08-2007, 05:54 AM

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/11884Picture_0501-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/11884Picture_0501.jpg)

I've never grown 100% coco, although it is in my soil mix. But I think these types of potters provide the greatest air and nutrient/water uptake...it's a truly passive wick hydro.

They make bigger pots up to a really huge one...that think could support a large kratom or ganja tree...but with small plants it's easy to over water.

Kenny Lingus

04-13-2007, 11:42 PM

Hi Bonecarver!
I got totally into coir last fall after chatting with you, GM and VT to mention a few... nOW i'VE HAD TWO WONDERFUL CROPS ON SLABS AND SOME STRAY CUTS IN POTS (Oppps ursäkta capslocket)

I'm just getting customed to growing seed plants in coco, and now I also wanna grow some mothers in this darling medium. Got any ideas for the nutes and any other things I should be aware of if I start?

sackoweed

04-25-2007, 01:20 AM

i read thru all elven pages great thread... Quick question can EA/EN innoculants be used
Earth Nectar and Earth Ambrosia.. Ill go to the next thread maybe something about it in one of those.. Thanx for sharing fellas.. peace..

sack

DELTA_3/504

04-29-2007, 11:24 PM

I'm new to growing, but it looks like coir is the way to go. Any suggestions on how to get started and what I might need? I hear the Canna nutrients are top notch for straight coir growing and offer a complete balance of what the plants need to get off to a great start. Will the Canna nutrients work well with any brand of good quality coir or are they just for the Canna Coco? Love the way those plants look, bonecarver_OG, the rest of y'all have some awesome wares, as well. Thanks for affording me such an awesome view and sharing your knowledge.

DELTA_3/504

gaiusmarius

04-30-2007, 04:26 AM

canna coco nutes will work on any coco, just as long as it's well flushed to start off with.
there are different approaches you can take. your best bet is reading a few threads here, there is a great thread by bullseye in the coco forum, that gives you an idea about big plant growing. then there is mojo's thread :

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=48054

which shows hand watred trees yielding superbly so far. then maybe my pp slab grow.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=10958

as well as all the stickies. if you want to go with non specific nutes, then the thread by Grat3fulh3ad :

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55683

and BlueHaze will be of interest :

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=51936

DELTA_3/504

04-30-2007, 05:57 AM

Thanks for the links, gaiusmarius, I'm sure I'll be able to glean what I need to know from all those links. A friend went and helped me by getting me the complete Canna Coco line of nutrients and additives, so as soon as I get the info internalized and get some coir, I'll start experimenting on my own and grow something out.

DELTA_3/504

Rebel_444

04-30-2007, 04:33 PM

Studying those links, GM -

stevr59

05-01-2007, 05:57 AM

hey guys i got a question i got a plant growing in a 1/2 gallon floger coffee can it just hit 34" tall today and it growing in parcel sun out side my question how tall can get get in this container and should i be thinking of transplanting to a bigger pot soon or will it be ok to leave it in the 1/2 gallon

Guest

05-01-2007, 08:29 PM

Transplant that baby!

chimmer

05-11-2007, 03:30 AM

wow what a read .i will be going to coco next batch but for now i am in mirecle grow moisture control. that has coco in it and i have been having all kinds of probs yellow leaf that brown out on older leafs. i think it is a mag diff. but i am wartering like soil. am i under watering, is this locking out something.

bonecarver_OG

05-26-2007, 06:05 PM

it sounds either like OVER watering of young plants with bad root system - OR - not enough nutes.

also maybe salt build up from under watering?

hehe post some pics and its easier to see what it could be :D

Boxy Brown

05-26-2007, 08:42 PM

one week befor transplant

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/22381Groupe_2.JPG

the day of transplant into coco

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/22381New_setup.JPG

one week later

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/22381Group_3.JPG

bonecarver_OG

05-26-2007, 10:34 PM

easyrasta

05-26-2007, 11:38 PM

I think the issue is that you have a medium that is ph high
and one that needs low ph.
i have the same type of set up but in 1gal containers of coco & hydroton.
i dropped my ph to 5.5-5.6 and they started to eat
and i watered every day.
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/4056yark2a.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/4056yark2a.jpg)
Peace
Ez

Boxy Brown

05-27-2007, 12:09 AM

the plant in the top left corner looks like it needs more water more often. besides that there is obvious signs of over nuting like the clawed tips of the leaf in general.

do the trays drain to anywhere?

its important there isnt salt accumulating in the botom of the trays if the roots have acces to it.

peace :D

the plant in the top left is tall and lanky like that because it is a pure sativa and the leaves are only clawing on my shulams which don't like the same ppm's that the cinnamon and easy bud do so now im mixing there nutes a couple hundred ppm's lower, also the tray dose not drain anywhere but there is a 2" cocotek mat that the roots grow into which keeps them out of the tray.

bonecarver_OG

05-27-2007, 01:37 AM

u need to make holes for drainage in those trays - the salt will buildup from the excess water. the coco tek mat will act like an sphonge sucking the salt up more and more. BUT if the roots arent growing into it that shouldnt be a problem.

im talking about the fact the leaf are hanging downwards with a kind of sloppy look. - not a healthy sign.

I think the issue is that you have a medium that is ph high
and one that needs low ph.

PH should allways be adjusted on the nute water. :D

peace all :D
but u ARE using water with adecuate ph?

Boxy Brown

05-27-2007, 02:09 AM

u need to make holes for drainage in those trays - the salt will buildup from the excess water. the coco tek mat will act like an sphonge sucking the salt up more and more. BUT if the roots arent growing into it that shouldnt be a problem.

im talking about the fact the leaf are hanging downwards with a kind of sloppy look. - not a healthy sign.

PH should allways be adjusted on the nute water. :D

peace all :D
but u ARE using water with adecuate ph?

the roots don't grow into the mat's because there usually dry so the mat is used mainly just to keep the bags off the bottom of the tray, and the cinnamon is all-wase kinda droopy like that even if the coco is wet, also my Ph is 5.8

bonecarver_OG

05-27-2007, 02:23 AM

cool :D

prelude91sir

06-03-2007, 01:27 PM

i want to try coco one day. i might try the hand watering method my next grow

Darkstarlive

06-06-2007, 02:33 PM

I've tried coco a couple of times and have had limited success, it seems that I can't get a good handle on the watering schedule for watering by hand. I flower in 3 or 5 gallon pots, do I need to water everyday regardless if its dry or not? Do I fert with every watering? I've used Coco peat and coir, the peat holds water better. What is the best way to hand water in Coco??
Thanks.
Peace...

Guest

06-06-2007, 11:47 PM

I find the frequency in which you water/feed coco is based on the plants requirements and the coarseness of the mix. If you have added clayballs and or perlite and or chunky coco coir(coco discs, coco croutons)...you will need to water more often, which is a good thing in coco. If you are using a coco dust type product straight with no additives( which most coco products on the market are)...then you need to water less so the medium doesn't stay water logged. Feeding can be done with every watering...but I suggest 1/2 to 2/3rd strength nutes per watering. Some people like to feed straight water every 3rd watering or once a week etc, ect. Read the plants for food strengths.

The plants size and the amount it drinks will also determine your frequency of waterings. Read the plants...and read the coco. If the pot is still quite heavy...leave it alone. If it getting a little dry looking on top, and lift feels like the plant is drinking good..then water away.

Thats just my hand watering method, but of course...I learned the hard way. I believed all those posts and articles about keeping straight coco wet. Fine and dandy if you have amendments or are using chunky coco.

Cheers,
SH

Darkstarlive

06-07-2007, 03:19 PM

I think thats where I get screwed up, trying to keep the Coco moist but not soggy. I think I let it get too dry most of the time and I only feed once a week and my plants look pale green. Since all of my experience is in soil grows I have to adapt to a hydro style of growing and like BC said "don't treat it like a soil grow"

Thanks,
Peace...

Jaws: Hit me up buddy

Ziggy420

06-08-2007, 03:27 PM

Kosmo

06-08-2007, 03:31 PM

:wave: great thread, Thank u

bonecarver_OG

06-08-2007, 07:16 PM

I have to agree. My first experiment with coco was not going well until I left town for 5 days. I had been watering daily in pure fine grain coco and the root sytem just wasn't going anywhere and a more than 1 month old was no more than 6 inches high.
When I came back home the plant had jumped about 6 inches.

i presume the plants were small plants in veg or clones? sometimessome strains dont like too much water early - but its just a question of getting them used to it.

i full-heartedlly recomend to water atleast once a day.

its of out-most importance u have the correct PH and nutricion levels.

watering coco once a week is NOT a recomended practise in anyway - and actually i have to say right away its the surest way to get salt buildup in ur coco pots.

make sure the plants are in pots that are in relacion to the size of the plant. a small plant in a bigger pot with lots of water might not be happy from the lack of oxygen and excess of water. better keep the pot small - make sure the pot gets well wet every watering - with a little bit of run of.

treat it like a hydro grow. U decide when UR plants GOT TO EAT :D hehe and u decide how much they grow, and when. - thats the hydro part :D and thats also the simplest reason why hydro-culture is more economic energywise for the plant.

less energy is spent on rootmass and leafmatter and more gets concentrated in the production of flowers, or tomatoes, lettuce or what ever u want.

if u water once a week u are definetly treating it like a soil grow - and further more - if u are watering every day and the growth is not increasing:
change the amount of water u are giving them or the nute mix :D (suposing u have the PH right.)

btw :D also it is common small plants do have an initial period of root-growth and stabilization etc - and these first 2-3 weeks the growth is far slower than the days after it gotten into full veg mode. once the roots are big enough - they can take almost what ever u want to give them - as long as u dont push it too much :D

i wish u luck :D

just remember as rule of guidance:
small plant + big pot (or volume of medium) = little use of water and stagnated water/nutes means less oxygen

small plant + small pot (or volume of medium) = more effective use of water - the roots use the medium better (best for drip solucions IMHO)

big plant + small pot (or volume of medium) = very high use of water - and bigger risk for salt buildups if left dry

bigplant + big pot (or volume of medium) = more effective use of water - the roots use the medium better (best solucion for handwatering coco)

(big and small is relative to the size of plant in question)

this quick list i made i bet has lots of modificators - im just generalizing to simplify. :D

note the different sized plants in different sized pots :D

pre-veg, re-veg and clone space
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC01955-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC01955.JPG)

anyway :D just my 2 cents :D and it works for me :D

all the best -- bone the carver! :D

-VT-

06-09-2007, 06:05 AM

Great post bonecarver :yes:

Thanks

bonecarver_OG

06-09-2007, 02:49 PM

thanx mate :D

im not trying to say its a rule or anything since some strains like to have more root space than others - also some strains have a higher water and nute usage - that will further modify the "guide" above.

i think the most important part is to make up ones mind for once - and start paying attencion to the plants:

- most "farmers" and "gardeners" with outstanding results - are often not the ppl measuring everything they do - rather they learn to know their plants and their signs when they need something. also i am sure feeling plays in a lot. we have a lot to learn from the ppl around us with incredible gardens and or veggie patches/farms.

it might seem like hippie mumbojumbo, but i for one think the best teachers for us to grow better is our own plants. their behaviour is the key.

hehe got to get connected with em :D

peace!

Rosy Cheeks

06-09-2007, 03:15 PM

less energy is spent on rootmass and leafmatter and more gets concentrated in the production of flowers, or tomatoes, lettuce or what ever u want.

Good post, I agree. Hydro is ALL about the roots though, so you could say that hydro is a system that concentrate on optimal root formation and nutrient uptake.
I've seen the same genetics yield more than twice as much (in the same growroom, with the same veg and flowering time) in a hydro system that allowed unlimited root expantion compared to a hydro system with a limited space (per plant), so we're not simply talking superior CEC (caption exchange capacity, in which most soils (depending on composition) seem to be inferior to coco, and both soil and coco is inferior to water). Size matters.

A Blueberry grown in 100% coco choir, watered with organic nutrients every day.

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6054Blueberry_9:6:07_8.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6054Blueberry_9:6:07_8.JPG)

bonecarver_OG

06-09-2007, 04:20 PM

nice! :D and a BIG WELLCOME!

yes the roots are the most important part of any plant or method of growing - that is obviously rule of thumb :D good point.

to get deeper into the subject, of course a plant in optimum nutricional schedule, all the root space it wants and all the rest of the variables in control - should yield more than a plant that is in some way compromised.

in coco the ready availability of the food of the plants - and the fact its far less energy consuming for the plant to grow the roots (less resistance since coco is just so nicelly fluffy) and thats why the roots do grow quicker in coco.

roots that are amassed in a small space will not absorb nutricion as well as roots that are well spaced out covering a bigger volume/area of substrate. this is very quick to see hehe planting same clone in small or big pot - the bigger pots ALLWAYS YIELD MORE. never fails :D as long as the rest of the conditions are well cared of - ie the watering amount, the nutricions, light and the whole lot etc :D

it is good u brought that up :D

one good example i experienced was growing our keepr SSH x PTK outside down here under the sun - in coco handwatered. the plants were in 50-70 liter pots and they got planted outside in august (yep right into when the flowering season starts) the cloens were about 20 cm tall lanky and a bit ugly. when we harvested the bushes in october WE COULDNT BELIEVE how much they actually had grown. the amount of buds it produced in comparison with leaf/stems or branches.. from those clones we harvest well over 1,5 kilos of prime buds. (4-5 plants).

im sure the size of the pot had a LOT to do with it - since i also had same clone in an other place in similar conditions but in a 1/4 of pot space.

my first thought with the pot sizes had not much else to do with anything, than just wanting to make sure the pots would be big enough to hold the water they need daily.

so: the more light, rootspace, (and as long as all environmental conditions + nutes are under control), the bigger will the yield be.

im not going to enter into the subject of hydrocultures like nft's or the floating systems (where one plant of lettuce etc is basicly floating on a mini-foam raft with 100's of liters of water for root space!) etc - i just want to concentrate on coco. - i know a 100% effective proper hydro setup would yield more because of the CEC - im trying just to concentrate on coco handwatering :D :D

i cant help to laugh out with relief when i see u also use the 1 liter beer mugs as mini pots :D

do u cut holes in them too?

psst some day i will try with even bigger beds of coco - and put the plants out late to flower - no waste on vegtime - just stems full of chunky buds :D

NO VEG: small clone straight to flowering outside. rooted undef fluoros:

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651PICT18361-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651PICT18361.jpg)

-VT-

06-09-2007, 06:05 PM

I had a theory about pot size and I suspect it's bunk now :D I was gonna even do a side by side with pot sizes (watering smaller pot more frequently and larger pot every few days)....no point wasting my time and clones lol. I just learned a lot in these past few posts....

In fact I was thinking about NFT (Rosy Cheeks' baby) when I was formulating my pot size "theory"....so much for that.....bonecarver has cleared lots up for me...

Good to see you here Rosy Cheeks!! I've looked up to you, and been a fan for a few years now!! Course you aleady knew that, I just wanna make it publicly known...lol Can't wait to see more of your coco action... :wave:

Keep it up bonecarver...you're saving me the trouble of mucking up plants with my bunk theories :D Seriously, thanks for taking the time bro.... :yes:

Rosy Cheeks

06-11-2007, 02:11 PM

Thanks guys. You're much more experienced coco-growers than I am though, I tend to diversify and try a little bit of everything. I sure am learning more from what you say than what you learn from me, which is why I keep my head down in the coco forums.
This is my first 100% coco choir grow (apart from coco mixed with soil or perlite), which I run with organic nutrients, simply because Blueberry is a non-forgiving strain and organic nutes makes it slightly more forgiving.
As you can see on this pic, the top node on several plants are freakish, and I've not yet decided whether to ascribe it to the Blueberry genetics, or a Ph problem due to irregular waterings.
Any inputs?

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6054Blueberry_11:6:07_4.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6054Blueberry_11:6:07_4.JPG)

humble1

06-11-2007, 03:02 PM

it may be exactly your inputs that are the issue (oooh, bad pun, sorry)
so, to clarify, yes it probably is your watering/pH
my blueberries have done some weird things, but not that.
let me guess..... seaweed is a key ingredient in your organic stew?

Rosy Cheeks

06-11-2007, 03:41 PM

let me guess..... seaweed is a key ingredient in your organic stew?

I don't think so, but it is a component in a carbohydrate additive I started using a few days ago, so it could be a correct diagnosis, concidering that only the top node is affected.

Ziggy420

06-11-2007, 05:12 PM

I've been out of the loop a few days so I've got to reply back several posts.

Bonecarver: It appears that letting her? dry out a bit helped in the overall vigor of the plant. I had done some probing in the pot prior to my memorial day jaunt and the root ball was just bigger than a golf ball after a month in a 6 inch net pot. Now after 2 weeks of reduced watering/feeding the roots are poking out all over and the lock out problems seem to have diminished. To avoid salt build up I flushed 2X pot volume w/ distilled water. So I guess I was over watering to begin with and she never had a chance to get established. Haven't decided if I'm going to drop her in my bubbler or keep going with RTW. Either way I'm going to increase the freaquency of watering and see how she goes cus the plant seems to be more balanced with the pot size.

Rosie Cheeks: I was checking my pH and keeping it 5.6 - 6.0 and I was getting the deformed leaves all over. When I slowed down my watering/feeding and let it dry out a bit, all this new healthy growth popped out on top and the roots went crazy. The first spirt while I was out of town was 6 inches in 5 days. I guess I still have some dialing in to do. I'm gonna check my pH at next watering just to see where I'm at.

Other than that I've been fighting fungus nats. I got some good photos of nats, and some other little nasties that undoubtedly are their larva. I had to up the potentcy of my neem spray mix cus they were just laughing at the 2 tbl per gallon that was on the bottle. It was pretty ugly there but things seem to be under control.

Thanks for the input one and all ;-)

-VT-

06-11-2007, 05:18 PM

IMO this is from overfert or pH....gotta keep pure coco moist....in your case I think it's overfert....because your previous pic shows the onset of lockout (least in my experience)...which is droopy leaves in my grows and gardens....when I see droopy leaves I start flushing and revisit pH and nute concentration and make adjustments.

Twisting leaves is a sign of excess K ....I can't comment on the Organic Tea you're using...

Maybe you need some Cal/Mag+ :joint:

Rosy Cheeks

06-11-2007, 05:36 PM

I don't think it's overfert VT, I know the Blueberry from earlier grows and I'm keeping dialed-in low levels of organic ferts. It's just the 100% coco choir that is new to me. And, it's the hungriest, fastest growing plants that are hit the worst. It should be the smaller, more sensitive plants in case of a too strong nutrient solution, since they're all getting the same mix.
As said, I did throw in a carbohydrate additive this weekend. I didn't check them until Monday morning, the plants grew a little faster than I thought they would and the biggest ones got quite close to the tubes (neons).
I figure either something not suitable with coco in the additive, high temps/ too close to the bulb, a ph problem due to spaced out watering, something along that line. But I'm guessing...

-VT-

06-11-2007, 06:10 PM

If you're sure it's not overfert then pH is a probably the culprit. Or that tea locked out something....I don't think it's temps or any of that other stuff....it's a nutrient disorder IMO...

bonecarver_OG

06-11-2007, 08:44 PM

Rosy - check if the roots of the coco have started to get down into the bottom of the pot - and if there is any risk for them drying out?

as far as i can see it cant bee nothing else than root damage - the growing tip is the first to get affected when the growing roots gets to a dry spot and die (for example the bottom of the coco pot might have gotten dry - ot the roots growing out might have been compromised in some way.

reading further on in ur last post - it seems to definetly be that - the leaf tips are not capable of getting the water it needs from the heat (is it touching the fluoro?)

i have before also come over similar problems - usualy repotting solved it.

ziggy - how often were u really watering the small plant before u had the "break" - starts to sound u in effect were keeping it water logged. small plants in small pots should NOT get watered too much - especially from seedlings - clones are more sturdy. imho

also i think its crucial to let the pot in the early stages - get to a very light humid state - not dry - just enough air to make the roots search for the water - u need to get the roots going. also for tiny seedlings it beneficial not to water too close to the stem. water along the rim of the pot to make the roots grow a bit. BUT i doo recomend as soon as u see ur plant is in the rapid veg state - u should increase watering and nutes.

just one extreme needing an other to get balanced - way too much water for too long time kills the roots. when u let it dry out a bit - the roots will go looking for what they need.

it should NOT in ANY WAY be seen as a comon or recomended practise.
as told before this will promote problems sooner or later. Dont let the coco dry out too much.

neem does little for fungus gnats. try bacterial methods.

peace :D

bonecarver_OG

06-11-2007, 08:47 PM

rosy - have u tried coco-specific nutes?

Bio-magnos series of biological/orgnic nutes work great in coco - seriously seems to worth the bucks for organic growers :D

just a thought :D

peace!

Neptune

06-11-2007, 09:20 PM

Rosey, that looks like overwater to me.
I am an expert of overwatering, I do it all the fucking time... :(

Blunt Trauma

06-11-2007, 09:26 PM

Rosey, that looks like overwater to me.
I am an expert of overwatering, I do it all the fucking time... :(

Well now, with a name like Neptune it'd be hard NOT to overwater, lol

Ziggy420

06-11-2007, 10:08 PM

Bonecarver: Yeah I had it water logged. The last two weeks of backing off the water allowed some healthy root growth which resulted in healthy vegitation springing up. The pot is full of roots and the LST/(accidental)FIM resulted in three almost pencil size main branches at 6-7 inches with an over all hight of 9 inches and starting to fill out nicely. At this point I'm just waiting for the next lessons to learn at this stage. It's already showing signs of sexual maturity but I want to veg out some more before I go to flower and if it is actually female I may just leave it with a sitter while I'm on vacation and take clones when I get back. At this point I doubt I'll have enough time (less than 60 days) for a complete flower to maturity. No hurry so we'll see what happens.

Oh and I was watering daily after I had 2 sets of leaves, so yeah, I had it pretty much swimming.

bonecarver_OG

06-11-2007, 11:04 PM

i water my 1 liter cups (1/4gallon) cups with a normal plastic cup (250cc - like the small coke bottles in volume) every day.

Rosy Cheeks

06-12-2007, 12:21 AM

I water until run-off, and since I foliar feed or mist at the same time, they tend to droop a little. But a couple of hours later, the leaves are back up again.

Neptune, I don't know about the overwatering theory. They're already well rooted (but not rootbound) in those pots, and they didn't show any signs of overwatering when they were fresh in the pots.

VT, that's what I figure as well. It looks like a deficiency, but I doubt that there is one, which indicates some kind of lock-out.

BC, I'm running these Blueberrys on BioBizz nutrients, and everything has been going just fine up until this little incident - which I don't think is much to worry about - so I think I'll just go all the way with the BioBizz. If I run into some serious problems I might reconcider, but I think it might be interesting to see if BioBizz works well in pure coco choir or not. I did a couple of sour diesels in coco choir and 25% perlite, it worked like a charm.

Now, back to the thread topic, before this thread gets moved to the Cannabis Infirmary.

bonecarver_OG

06-12-2007, 12:33 AM

no man :D its on topic allright :D

if its well rooted in the pot - consider repotting it.

normally when i grown in coco and similar problems have arived although all parameters have been perfect - then the problem is allways the roots in some way.

if u dont get it to get going again, maybe consider repoting? it also gives u a nice oportunity to check root health in general. :D

hope it sorts out mate

peace

Darkstarlive

06-18-2007, 02:22 PM

So, if I understand this right its okay for the coco to stay wet all the time, which will happen from watering everyday??

Peace...

yts farmer

06-18-2007, 06:54 PM

hello can i get some advice of you guys..

today i transplanted my seedlings which are in 1 inch r/w cubes,into small pots with canna coco.there around 9 days old and have roots coming from the bottom of the cubes,thought it might be a little early for food so just mixed up some canna rhizo and some hygrowzym and watered them until i got some run-off.was watering pot number 18(last 1) and realised i didnt ph the water beforehand(what a numpty).

so do you think they should be ok until there next water or should i ph the soloution and run through again.the soloution i wtered with has a ph of 8.6.

Guest

06-25-2007, 12:46 AM

whats up bros; is it possible 2 grow organically in coco coir mediums?

bonecarver_OG

06-25-2007, 12:59 AM

ph 8.6 is not nice - however i think they will make it :D next time make sure u check the ph :D

coco organically.. id have to get someone else to chime in - i dont know enough about that to have an opinion :D

peace

Guest

06-25-2007, 04:57 AM

whats up bros; is it possible 2 grow organically in coco coir mediums?

Absolutely. There are a few organic grows here to check out if you want to search.

Cheers,
SH

Nevi

06-25-2007, 02:30 PM

I agree wholeheartedly.In the past,I always thought WTF,when someone that had tried to go over to coco,said"I´ll never go back to soil".Now I understand it.I am in the middle of my first grow with coco and perlite,and its so obvious that the roots get much more oxygene.I also have a bucket with water that is being oxygenated the whole time by a little aquarium pump.Me think it gives more oxy to the girls..
My plants have only been vegging around 6 weeks (Cinderella 99 and Sknk#1) and have been in flower 18 days.
This is great.IMO its like you have a kind of hydro just in pots and with handwatering.The growrate is at least more fast than any soil mix I have ever used!
This is one of my girls.Healthy too.

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1003/img0184largexf6.th.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0184largexf6.j pg)

bonecarver_OG

06-25-2007, 05:53 PM

looking awesome nevi :D

Rosy Cheeks

06-25-2007, 05:54 PM

whats up bros; is it possible 2 grow organically in coco coir mediums?

It's happening right in front of your eyes. These are Blueberrys in 100% coco choir that have been fed exclusively with organic BioBizz nutrients from start.

Even though the grow is going satisfactory so far (late veg), they're terribly slow growing, and I must admit that there's a high ratio of odd things happening. I'm not sure wether to ascribe it all to the genetics (DJ Short's genetics being known to have peculiar characteristics) or the way I grow them. I lean towards the former, because I've got a couple of White Widows going in 100% coco choir as well, and they're faultless so far.

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6054Blueberrys_25:6:07_01.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6054Blueberrys_25:6:07_01.JPG)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6054Blueberrys_25:6:07_02.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6054Blueberrys_25:6:07_02.JPG)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6054Blueberrys_25:6:07_03.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6054Blueberrys_25:6:07_03.JPG)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6054Blueberrys_25:6:07_06.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6054Blueberrys_25:6:07_06.JPG)

bonecarver_OG

06-25-2007, 05:59 PM

yep - definetly a bit weird things going on :D but looks more genetical than anything IMHO.

are those stems dark red? or is just an optical illusion :D?

keep it up man ! :D

peace

Rosy Cheeks

06-25-2007, 06:20 PM

The stems on some plants are purple and have been since early veg (probably looks red because of the white scale) BC.

As said - probably genetic. Apart from strange leaf discolorations and mutations, I've had problems only when I spaced out between waterings or added a carbohydrate additive (I don't know which one, but it's one or the other).
My theory is that letting the coco dry out caused a ph drop in the medium (or the additive caused it), and the Blueberrys being particularly finicky reacted instantly on it.

bonecarver_OG

06-25-2007, 10:33 PM

ok :D

yeah its better to not to let the coco dry out complettelly :D

this season im not using ATA xL - and im getting much less salt build up etc :D

peace! :D

thescientist

06-25-2007, 11:33 PM

blueberry has got to be the shortest plant ive ever grown. My nl x blu pheno can veg for 10 wks and she is stil only gonna be 16" but you get a really dense bud.

Darkstarlive

06-26-2007, 12:53 AM

rock on

HinduKushed_423

06-30-2007, 04:50 PM

i'm lazy right now but based on what i have read in this thread so far no body has made this suggestion which is what i used to do when i used pbp , with coco coir, i used to add a little soil sweet to my mix , which i think is why in large i did not have to use any cal mag or such, as that is what i understand soil sweet to be.

stoneshaper

07-02-2007, 02:12 AM

nice thread you got going here, bone
one day id like to try coco aswell, but for now ill stick to soil!

bonecarver_OG

07-02-2007, 02:14 AM

go ahead bro :D i think the soil works best for guerillagrows with out a doubt :D hehe :D

btw - its really cool to have u over here at icmag :D

peace :D

edit - thr growroom is full again - about 40 pots something :D plants in all possible stages of flowering but its not as chatic as it looks like.

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC02201-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC02201.JPG)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC02183-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC02183.JPG)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC02185-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC02185.JPG)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC02173-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC02173.JPG)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC02172-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC02172.JPG)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC02171-thumb.JPG (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7651DSC02171.JPG)

Guest

07-02-2007, 02:52 AM

drying out or underfeeding in coco leads to purpling

stoneshaper

07-04-2007, 11:49 AM

nicenice....
bone bro, your stuff is looking AAA
rosy hope theyll do better soon, maybe temps?(my go purple outdoor for a while in colder days)
seems like its all going nice bro!
take care!

heres some pics of the nycdiesel(supposedly) looks like the sun got them going a little..
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/24712july_1st_052-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/24712july_1st_052.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/24712july_1st_054-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/24712july_1st_054.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/24712july_1st_055-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/24712july_1st_055.jpg)

peace out

bonecarver_OG

07-04-2007, 05:36 PM

awesome soil guerilla u got going brother :D they are starting to pick up the pace huh :D ?

that should turn out very chunky in a couple of months :D

hehe - u sorted out a kick-ass avatar bro :D true guerilla spirit 4 sure! :D

peace bro!

stoneshaper

07-07-2007, 12:32 PM

coco seems to be so fast reacting compared to any grow medium i have ever used.
it sems like one would have a lot of control, but if i would have to water daily or even every three days, id be the one controlled by the plants......
( i grow on a mountain, water get heavy when you carry it up a cliff and through forested slopes)
ill let it wait until later(indoor) until then, ill follow closely, so as to not miss any good info!!

peace and love

peace

Cruzin'

07-08-2007, 05:45 AM

Great info in a great thread people. Very inspiring for those wishing to try the Coco phenomenon.
In my experience using Canna nutes and also DutchMaster in Coco. Hand watering always needed an extra injection of Magnesium at the beginning, normally a once only addition. If I neglected to add Mg at the beginning I would always get off coloured leaves during veg. Currently harvesting my latest hand watered Coco grow, the more I use Coco the more I am impressed by it's grower friendliness and ease of use.
Rock on Coco growers.

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17166Scrog_109.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17166Scrog_109.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17166Scrog_120.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17166Scrog_120.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17166Scrog_133.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17166Scrog_133.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17166Scrog_136.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17166Scrog_136.jpg)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17166Scrog_145.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/17166Scrog_145.jpg)

bonecarver_OG

07-08-2007, 05:06 PM

awesome!

Gangsta Lean

07-08-2007, 10:10 PM

tight work cruzin

karmical

07-09-2007, 03:18 AM

love this thread, i must say i really like this hand watering thing.

Cruzin'

07-09-2007, 12:33 PM

Thanx ya'll. Hand water'n is an easy way to go if plant numbers are on the low side. Did a SOG a whiles back, hand watered 50 pots.
Lesson learnt = NEVER AGAIN, should've gone auto with that one.LOL.

Stay Safe. Peace.
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/171662886Stage_2_061-med1.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/171662886Stage_2_061-med1.jpg)

bonecarver_OG

07-09-2007, 09:10 PM

hehe :D yep - many plants in coco hand watered is a lot of work :D hehehe i normally have around 60 -70 plants going on with moms, dads, flowering ones and clones, every day atleast 1,5 hours of work is spent on them..

awesome pic mate! looks like a very nice setup!

Gangsta Lean

07-10-2007, 07:05 PM

well im sure the work is worth is lol

bonecarver_OG

07-10-2007, 07:07 PM

hehe yeah :)

BorisTheBlaze

07-13-2007, 08:13 PM

awesome thread bone :) seriously very informative in all aspects. wow cruzin....respect bro those plants look great and what a serious SOG

bonecarver_OG

07-13-2007, 09:16 PM

thanks, but the ppl contributing are all part of it :D

thanks to all of u guys :D

peace!

sugabear_II

07-16-2007, 02:34 AM

I'm interested in doing some rather large plants ... 4 plants in a 5' x 5' room with a 1k - maybe more light....

I'd like to be able to go 3 days or longer between watering.

What size containers would y'all recommend for this type setup?

25liter/5 gallon - or go bigger yet? I was thinking about using keg buckets like this one

http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/keg-dispensing-pid-R4219.html

at 19 gallons or close to 100liters.

plants would be vegged from rooted clones for 4-6 weeks before flower.

thanks

suga

ojd

07-16-2007, 01:39 PM

i just like to say this is a great thread bonecarver
and everyone else who's put input in

i am looking in to the coco thing and hoping to make the switch

i will be starting with a practice clone or 2

ive still got lots of reading to do tho
peace out

bonecarver_OG

07-16-2007, 04:57 PM

sugabear - the 25 liter ones will be more than enough. the 19 gallon ones would be better for outdoors - where u can litterally grow a tree in them.

2 months of VEG is suitable for the 25 liter pots. if not - the plants might not get all that big.

i have done similar grows, and then i usually give more space to the plants, veg them big, trimming etc to bring up number of branches and tips without overdoing it. i veg in 12 liter pots, and a few weeks before flowering i switch to the 25 liter pots. if not - the plants hardly use up the space given to them. i did last summer 5 big plants, in 25 liter pots, under a 600.

peace :D

Pimpslapped

07-16-2007, 06:58 PM

Hi folks!

I'm not currently using coco, but I'm considering doing a test run in the not too distant future. Trying to avoid having to order from an online shop due stealth concerns, but we'll see what happens.

Anyone here familiar with the Smartvalve, ala Autopots? It seems like it would work in a manner somewhat similar to the 'tray watering' mentioned earlier in the thread (Sorry, haven't read the whole thing, skimmed first half though). How do you think that would work with coco in pots? My biggest concerns would be potential salt buildup, but that could perhaps be compensated for with flushing the plants a couple times a week. It seems like a good method for a low maintenance grow.

For those not familiar with Smartvalves (Smartvalve MK 2 currently avail) it's a device used for autowatering, fully mechanical operating off of float valve. Gravity fed from a reservoir, it fills it's container with water 1" deep, then shuts off the flow of water until it has all drained/evaporated/gone away. So basically it'd flood a tray 1" deep, let the plants soak up the water and the tray dry out (Faster than pots would, by how much I don't know) before filling it to a depth of 1" again.

bonecarver_OG

07-16-2007, 07:12 PM

u would have to give it a shot and tell us how it goes :D

peace :D

Pimpslapped

07-17-2007, 02:10 PM

As soon as I have time, money, room and have sourced out what all I need... I'm planning on giving it a try. Though I'm more inclined to stick with organic soils for the most part, due to simplicity of keeping the grow going. (No real worries about PH issues and such) It's nice to be able to leave the plants alone for a couple days if needed without really worrying about it.

Seems like it would be an ideal coco solution though, from what I've heard the smartvalve/autopot works well with soil, never really letting it dry out which should carry over to coco.

I'm not sure if it would be better to run a dilute nute solution in the res for the flooding, or just use regular water for that and add the nutes via hand watering. Somewhat concerned about potential salt buildups or burn though.

Here's a quick link to the smartvalve: Click (http://futuregarden.com/hydroponics/smartvalve.html)

purcellville

07-17-2007, 03:15 PM

I know a grower who has been very happy with autopots. Easy and simple is all she keeps saying. The downside is her yiled seems to suffer a bit. But after turning out some whopping harvest with bio buckets for a few months she went right back to the auto pots for pure ease and simplicity.

Iv'e been thinking about them ever since.

SOY.ALTO

07-17-2007, 03:42 PM

I tell ya, Ive tried so many different methods of growing over the years, and I gotta say Im thinkin that handwater coco is about as simple as it gets while still maintaining great results. Im 2 weeks flo into my first handwater coco try and I gotta say if shit continues like it has thus far I am SOLD! :D

Ive got 9 plants under a 400w HPS in 1 gal pots of coco. I water every other day at this point, although in a couple weeks I will probably have to water daily with the 1 gal pots. Feed them every other watering. Nothing special, just the GH 3 part with some cal mag in veg. I honestly think these plants are the best I have ever grown in terms of overall health and vigor.

The other half of the grow Ive got 8 plants under a 1k MH in a recirculating drip (in coco as well) and that grow is lookin lovely, to say I can't complain would be a gross understatement, I just spent a over two hours tieing up buds yesterday, and Im only in the 4th week of flo (of course, when you grow the wreck, this is all but expected). But the other side with the handwatered coco has just amazed me. And the thing is, with only 9 plants, I feel like I am spending quality time with my plants rather than keeping them fed is a chore. With some training and a longer veg, I could easilly fill two 1k lights with 8-10 plants in large pots of coco, and the amount of work it would take to maintain them would be minimal in comparison to the return. Assuming things stay on course, that will probably be my next run. Why bother with hydro systems that take time and money to build while being at the mercy of a pump and timer to keep your plants alive, when you can KISS and run 5 gal buckets of coco and get the same results?..

I think I just might love coco. :D I hope things continue on as they are up to this point.

purcellville

07-17-2007, 04:03 PM

amen to that. I have gone completley hand watered and with 5 gallon pots maybe twice a week I water. But I think I am done with coco for now and just going good ole organic soil.

I tell ya, Ive tried so many different methods of growing over the years, and I gotta say Im thinkin that handwater coco is about as simple as it gets while still maintaining great results. Im 2 weeks flo into my first handwater coco try and I gotta say if shit continues like it has thus far I am SOLD! :D

Ive got 9 plants under a 400w HPS in 1 gal pots of coco. I water every other day at this point, although in a couple weeks I will probably have to water daily with the 1 gal pots. Feed them every other watering. Nothing special, just the GH 3 part with some cal mag in veg. I honestly think these plants are the best I have ever grown in terms of overall health and vigor.

The other half of the grow Ive got 8 plants under a 1k MH in a recirculating drip (in coco as well) and that grow is lookin lovely, to say I can't complain would be a gross understatement, I just spent a over two hours tieing up buds yesterday, and Im only in the 4th week of flo (of course, when you grow the wreck, this is all but expected). But the other side with the handwatered coco has just amazed me. And the thing is, with only 9 plants, I feel like I am spending quality time with my plants rather than keeping them fed is a chore. With some training and a longer veg, I could easilly fill two 1k lights with 8-10 plants in large pots of coco, and the amount of work it would take to maintain them would be minimal in comparison to the return. Assuming things stay on course, that will probably be my next run. Why bother with hydro systems that take time and money to build while being at the mercy of a pump and timer to keep your plants alive, when you can KISS and run 5 gal buckets of coco and get the same results?..

I think I just might love coco. :D I hope things continue on as they are up to this point.

terran2

08-07-2007, 12:21 AM

yep - definetly a bit weird things going on :D but looks more genetical than anything IMHO.

are those stems dark red? or is just an optical illusion :D?

keep it up man ! :D

peace

Have heard many seedmaker/breeders comment on the instability of Blueberry strains with latent leaf deformation gene popping up very often plus some herm traits tendencies that are hard to control . This lead some ike tony over @ Sag to have to conduct extensive grow-outs back in the late 90's to try and stabilize their version of this gen/strain . Still have those same problems happenng over with DJ's gear which is why 'm going with a blueberry/nl hybrid and more stable genetics of the NL, less finicky and an eye for a good pheno. There are some amazing good cuts of the grape going round these parts and still trying out those as well , lovely aroma and stone.

* On the subject of Coco , is it best adviseable to do a rinse out first and then a wash of Cal Mag to neutralize the K and prep the medium ? I'm still a newbie and hunting for the right combo of perlite/coco for top feed (or ebb&flood) and fert concentrations . And always there is the strength & vigor of a strain vs the size of the pot to always consider. Am trying out some HK/Skn1 (pog) that is so extremely vigorous , not sure that even a 2gal pot will see it thru to a good finish ...just have to flower early on...

Have mixed 50/50 which seems suited even for the slow Ebb&F on an 8ft table and to extend the Coco by dillution adding much aeration ...but as always the more perlite the more sensitive to drying out etc and a plant quickly overwhelming the root space before finish . Have been using GH w Calmag along lucas formula lines , seems should also try some other brands too

tia

bonecarver_OG

08-07-2007, 01:59 AM

i dont use calmag - so some else would ahve to answer.

the only thing i can say - dont make it complicated :D coco is easy :D

peace bredren! :D

Guest

08-07-2007, 06:14 PM

On the subject of Coco , is it best adviseable to do a rinse out first and then a wash of Cal Mag to neutralize the K and prep the medium ?

Buy good, prewashed coco like Botanicare or Canna, and you won't have to worry about rinsing anything.

I'm still a newbie and hunting for the right combo of perlite/coco for top feed (or ebb&flood) and fert concentrations

There is more then enough information in this forum to answer just about every single question you can think of. Happy hunting! If your a noob, don't dick around with the perlite. You don't need it.

bonecarver_OG

08-07-2007, 08:14 PM

Buy good, prewashed coco like Botanicare or Canna, and you won't have to worry about rinsing anything.

There is more then enough information in this forum to answer just about every single question you can think of. Happy hunting! If your a noob, don't dick around with the perlite. You don't need it.

good post :)

Guest

08-08-2007, 01:05 AM

good post :)

:rasta:

Seems like only a handful of us are still active in here, whats the deal bonecarver?

bonecarver_OG

08-08-2007, 02:00 AM

i dont know man.. maybe we scared them away? :D

peace man! :D

reddy1

08-21-2007, 04:08 AM

i like this thread. good info for my first ever grow.

i've bought a couple of bales of botanicare cocogrow and am mixing it with perlite and FFOF. first batch was 1/3 coco. last transplant batch was a week ago, 2/3 coco. i got kind of nervous with the last batch drying out fast but in 5 gallon pots i water every other day. i'm lazy. so far it's looking really healthy. i vegged in OF and perlite and transplanted the first week of flower. i'd love to see huge root growth. will the late transplant mess me up? i couldn't waste resources on males.

my next grow will probably be pure coco. you guys sold me! soil is my buffer right now because i'm making lots of mistakes. first timers tend to do that.

oh yeah to add what i orginally meant to say :joint:. i soaked and broke up the coco in my hands, filled up 5 gallon pots and put outside for a day to dry. i didn't really wash it hard. i got it loose and let it dry. is that enough for botanicare.

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/25920delete_002-thumb.jpg (http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/25920delete_002.jpg)