The Krusty Bucket - Planted by SomeoneYouKnow [Archive] - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

krusty

04-06-2004, 01:22 PM

yikes!!!

dewd!!!

where is the lava rock???

if you grow that plant large as in 8 footers the hydrotron/expanded clay will slip and slide all over and the plant will never anchor...

also....this is a HUGE thingy....you want the clone to SIT ON TOP of the medium....you dont want to bury the clone UNDER the medium....i have a picture of this cause somone in another area of the net was discussing with me about the medium issue we had here in IC...

basically i was showwing him why ver/perlite DOESNT work as a medium...

because in this picture you can clearly see that the verm perlite held too much moisture....and that anything that touched the verm/perlite even got rot on it...or green fungus shit...but that the lava rock didnt get this....only the lava rock that had direct contact witht he ver/perlite had this (hence the rocks i pulled away form the ver/perlite having partial green on them

but this picture should show yas why you want the clone ONTOP of the medium.....and you want the feed lines AWAY from the clone...you want it so that just the very tip ends of the roots are getting wet from nutrients..NOTHING ELSE

if you notice in this picture the feed line is not shootting any nutrients even close to the little bit of ver/perl that was left on clone...yet thru the roots the ver/perl actually wicks up this moisture and causes green fungus shit with the light.....this is what will soon cause the main stock to actually rot right thru.....in this picture you can see it isnt a problem..that the main stock is fairly big and the amount of green fungus is very minor and soon once the stock is like 2 inches thick it will be nothing at all

i also want you guys to take notice of the roots that were exposed when i took the rock off the left hand side....you can see how healthy the root system is under the lava rock...i would not normally stress the plants out by moving these rocks arround..BUT this clearly shows why lava rock is superior...cause even this close to light exposure and heat from the grow room (this room sits at 95 F) the roots are healthy because the lava rock is beeing cooled from the 70-72F nutrients flowing accross it:)

now when i had this discussion with my buddies they mentioned that only about 30 % of the lava rock gets wet.....so only 30% will acutally keep cool..

this is wrong...on paper ya it looks good...but the roots will only follow the nutrient flow allong the lava rock...and suprizingly even with just two feed lines per bucket you actually get more like 50-60% of the lava rock exposed to the nutrient flow.....not too much at begining..but once the root system makes its way down the nutrients that acted as a path for the roots will soon find other paths allong the roots as the roots branch out..

once the roots hit the bottom of the buckets then literally you can have the spegetti lines agaisnt the side of the buckets and i find this works best...so that all nutrients are beeing picked up from the end of the root system in the extreme air roots:)

sorry to pick apart yer system..BUT that is fully not the way i would set up the buckets...that hydrotron sucks major ass compared to lava rock:/

if that is all you can find then at the very least try and get lava rock for the top portion so that the clone at least has a better chance to make it..you will end up having to tie the fuck out of the plant so it doesnt move when it gets bigger...but that is only if you cant find lava rock...hydrotron i have ussed many times in past..and EACH TIME i had problems with plants shifting arround and loosing alot of yield/quality

also...i noticed you ussed a small little pot in the one picture...hopefully you took some scissors to that pot and cut it up a bit...becaus eif you left it solid it will strangle the roots...the roots will sooner or later bust the thing up..BUT you will be stressing them until they do....personally i would not use that...i would use the verm/perl mixture...i can honestly say ver/perl is the ONLY way i have found thus far to work flawlessly...even the jiffy pucks i ussed to swear by do not work half as good/easy as the ver/perl....with the ver/perl you can mildly soak them in some balanced out water (both ph and temp balanced) and lightly shake off the medium to expose some healthy huge ass roots....this will literally take off a week of yer veg...as you can see with my 6 day ole clones:)

well hope this all helps..but agian i see probs happening VERY soon:/

peace

krusty

oh...here is the picture...teehee

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/220clone1weekveg.jpg

SomeoneYouKnow

04-06-2004, 05:36 PM

DAMNIT KRUSTY !!

Just when I think I am doing alright (not great - but alright) something else is wrong.

Just Kiddin - Thanks for da input.

Originally posted by krusty
yikes!!!

dewd!!!

where is the lava rock???

if you grow that plant large as in 8 footers the hydrotron/expanded clay will slip and slide all over and the plant will never anchor...

I KNEW you were going to say that - in fact - that is one of the VERY few things that I did not do as exactly as I could to spec.

Had hella problems with the LavaRock that I tried changin the PH and shiznet - I'll be testing a bunch from different locals and shops durin this run to get ready for the next one.

also....this is a HUGE thingy....you want the clone to SIT ON TOP of the medium....you dont want to bury the clone UNDER the medium....i

Hmm - K - dont really know if I can raise them up at this point - maybe I can take out some of the rock in the buckets and add it as the plant grows in.

...you want it so that just the very tip ends of the roots are getting wet from nutrients..NOTHING ELSE

K - Dat be what I am aimin 4.

sorry to pick apart yer system..BUT that is fully not the way i would set up the buckets...that hydrotron sucks major ass compared to lava rock:/

I appreciate the help from someone who gets even better results than I do.

if that is all you can find then at the very least try and get lava rock for the top portion so that the clone at least has a better chance to make it..you will end up having to tie the fuck out of the plant so it doesnt move when it gets bigger...but that is only if you cant find lava rock...hydrotron i have ussed many times in past..and EACH TIME i had problems with plants shifting arround and loosing alot of yield/quality

THAT - I can do - like maybe - I will take out some of the hydroton so that the plant "sits" higher on the rocks - and then add the lava rock that I have pre-soaked to the top in a week or so for support.

also...i noticed you ussed a small little pot in the one picture...hopefully you took some scissors to that pot and cut it up a bit...becaus eif you left it solid it will strangle the roots...the roots will sooner or later bust the thing up..BUT you will be stressing them until they do....personally i would not use that

Didnt do this either - but makes sense. Those tiny pots were used in my aerocloner to get these kids goin - best I had for right now - next grow WILL be different!

Maybe I can try carefully and see what I can do with those pots - but not much I think at this point.

(( the rest of you out there takin notes and learnin from my mistakes?? ))

well hope this all helps..but agian i see probs happening VERY soon:/

I hope it helps too - gawd I hope the 'problems' in my grow are advertable to a minimum - while I fine tune dis system.

Chiller is on the Way.
R/O system is INSTALLED for fogger/rez refill.

Off to check on my kids now - wish me luck everyone - please keep your fingers crossed for SomeoneYouKnow - tee hee.

~ SYK ~

krusty

04-06-2004, 07:00 PM

SYK - what is happening with the lava rock ???

you have ussed it before??

i will admit....i am really lucky...here in BC most landscapping supply places have not only one type of lava rock but some up to 5 types....mostly they are there for different colors so people have choices in colors when decorating there yards..

i tend to look for the least bright redish color...

i have ussed the more blackish/charcoal color too and found good results but its just a wierd color and scares me..lmao

what i ave done is taken 3 types of lava rock and tested them....as in grabbed 3 seperate buckets....i told the supply place i wanted to add some around my bushes at home and see what color was best and they actually wanted to just give me the buckets for free...but i insisted on paying for each:)

then i took the buckets home and put them in another bucket full of water after cleaning them of course....and just simply looked for the best PH out of them...and tried testing them up to 5 days..

and yes out of the 3 i found one to spike ph...as in there must have been something inside the lava rock that brought the ph way up....

so obviously if this is all the lava rock you can find then i feel for you..

but i also want to mention that 90% of the time people have told me the lava rock was a problem it wasnt...most of the time it is humdity then secondly i found people wwere not ussing enough nutrients...

they blamed the ph rising on lava rock but in most of these cases they were not having enough humdity and once the gh product balances itself out i think it is hard for it to re balance.....so when you have a room sucking out all the water cause the room is low humidty and the nutrients stay in sometimes not oly does the ppm rise but also the PH.....so by adding humidity this fixes that...

other times i found that people were not ussing enough gh products or not ussing the self buffering gh nutes and once they ussed enough to allow the GH products to buffer properly the nutes ph'd out better...

can you tell me what the lava rock is doing???

for me as long as the lava rock was not getting higher then say 8.2 ph sitting alone i think the gh products iwll almost ph balance it enough without having to add any extra ph down

and as far as moving yer plants...if that picture is recent then i would hugely move them and cut those little pots .....also raise up the pots so the roots are the only thing in the medium...trust me you are going to add a huge amount of stress by burying those things like you have and also having those pots constrict the small plant....moving now is nothing in comparison

peace

krusty

SomeoneYouKnow

04-07-2004, 12:59 AM

Yeah - Those little cloning cups were a bad move.

The stupid stoner in me didnt even think of it.

The problem is -- that the problem is worse than you may think.

See. . .

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_13052-med.jpg

It would be ALMOST impossible for me to get in there and cut the cup up - ERRRR - I am really freaken pissed off AT MYSELF for this now - this is a silly newbie error that I should have taken into consideration when trying to grow a TREE damnit !!

I did however move the plants up higher in the medium as per your suggestion.

SomeoneYouKnow

04-07-2004, 01:28 AM

Here's some of the behind the scenes -- different shots

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026AC.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026CO22.jpg

The CO2 Lines . . .

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026Co2_Lines.jpg

SomeoneYouKnow

04-07-2004, 01:31 AM

The Kitchen. . . .

Has the RO Filter and Storage. . . .

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026RO_Filter.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026Osmosis_Tank.jpg

And a small boomer factory for me and a friend :-)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026Boomer_Greenhouse.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026Boom.jpg

At Least a Half but havent weighed it yet - PLENTY for a night of FUN for like less than an hour of work almost in total !!

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026Quick_Harvest.jpg

SomeoneYouKnow

04-07-2004, 01:32 AM

Here's the room - One Half then the Other

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026Room_A11.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026Room_A2.jpg

SomeoneYouKnow

04-07-2004, 01:37 AM

And finally the Kids. . .

I am REALLY NOT too proud of these - would really have liked to have different clones - both strain and livelyness.

Also keep in mind that they look kinda droopy because it is dark cycle and these plants droop at night.

I tried to make the plants sit higher in the buckets and make SURE that the stem is not getting wet.

Only one plant has streams of water - you'll see in the picts.

Here we go.

SomeoneYouKnow

04-07-2004, 01:37 AM

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026Kid_1.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026Kid_2.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026Kid_3.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026Kid_4.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026Kid_5.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026Kid_6.jpg

SomeoneYouKnow

04-07-2004, 01:39 AM

Some of the pictures are not clear - kinda foggy. . .

In retrospect - I think it was the humidity in the room that made the pictures SUCK because MOST that I took today - bout 40 - came out poor.

~ SYK ~

BigTreez

04-07-2004, 01:51 AM

have you checked out the little ghetto humidity dome krusty made...........he put a 5 gall upside down on the top of his plants and cut all of it out cept 3 legs to hold the bucket upright....then cut all the top out and then through a plastic cover over it.He said that it really helped and brought it up like 35% i think.......

BigTreez

04-07-2004, 01:52 AM

lol...nm...thought u where saying ur humidity was at 40....lol....u got a fogger in there...im stoned.peace!

krusty

04-07-2004, 02:33 AM

couple things dewd...

i noticed yer root mass...it looks as tho you got like 12+ inches of root mass past the bottom of the clone.....so if that is the case you should be alright with the clones...just make sure you dont get any nutrients/wetness on the stalk area....what will happen is the little clone will do awsum..then one day boom it will fall over and die and nothing you can do to fix it...

SHROOMIES!!!!

gawd i luv them fucking things.....i havent done any in like ...shit i bet 8 years...but i would LOVE to learn how to gorw them bastards....that is my favorite high is tripping on caps:P

kinda always scare dme....heard shit about taking a bed matress and growwing shrooms int hat or some crap...lmao

but you shoudl start up a shroom making thread...i wknow i would surely try out one go round:)

ohya..the gheto domes..they work AWSUMLY!!! as in more then 35 % ....the room sits at 18 % and if you msit the inside of these domes once every 2 days kinda thingy it maintains 80 % humidity in them...works perfectly:)

peace

krusty

Greenja

04-07-2004, 03:04 AM

krusty,

a couple q's?

<you want the clone to SIT ON TOP of the medium....you dont want to bury the clone UNDER the medium....i have a picture of this cause somone in another area of the net was discussing with me about the medium issue we had here in IC...>>

So you clean your perlite/verm grown clone in water till roots are clear, then u actually put the whole clone, roots and all ON TOP of the lava rocks at the very beginning?? What keeps it upright then?

<<.....not too much at begining..but once the root system makes its way down the nutrients that acted as a path for the roots will soon find other paths allong the roots as the roots branch out..

once the roots hit the bottom of the buckets then literally you can have the spegetti lines agaisnt the side of the buckets and i find this works best>>

Ok then...where exactly are the 2 feeders supposed to be placed at the very beginning? And 24/7 from this get go as well I'm presuming.

thx, very good thing to discuss as the plant is most susceptable at the very beginning to overwatering and root rot/fungas/algae. thx for bringing it up.

greenja

BigTreez

04-07-2004, 03:38 AM

shrooms...ahhhhhh...i havent shroomed in like a year also...but man was it the best trip ever...and all i did was sit down and meditate for 7 hours and by the time i was done i was sober....but felt so damn alive i could feel the energy radiating off me.........the next best trip i was with 2 friends and we went mountain clibing untill we got to the top and then we sat down for like 5 hours in one spot.......all the vultures thought we where dead so they started swooping hella close to us...and then all of a sudden a bunch of small birds starting swoopng by our head at full speed......it was some trippy shit.....i could almost see the wind patterns by looking at the trees and birds in comparison to the mountains......was truley a great experiance.....nothing like eating a 8th and enjoying nature!...

get ur shroom spores here
http://www.cosmicmushroomspores.com/

and here is a growing link

http://www.growmagicmushrooms.com

havent really researched this stuff yet...but it would be cool to grow my own fungus.........

diggity-dank

04-07-2004, 04:43 AM

little off topic but i am also interesting in the shroom growing.. never been able to talk to someone that actually grew some. It would be awsome if you could start a little thread about growing shrooms and just post up how you did yours. you said it was only an hours worth of work for that? please tell us how!

krusty

04-07-2004, 06:29 AM

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/220clone.jpg

greenja - forst off i want to make this clear....and it is in wrong order of yer questions..but i want to take what you say and fully support yer views...

"thx, very good thing to discuss as the plant is most susceptable at the very beginning to overwatering and root rot/fungas/algae. thx for bringing it up." - greenja

you are SOOOO right....i have been thru this a few times..but i guess it gets lost in the trolling/thread removals n such...

if you dont start them off perfectly they end up beeing a pain in the ass thru the whole damn process...and seriously...it took me at least 3 years to perfect the art of transplanting clones to the buckets....

i tried everything...but then i realized the wierdest thing worked...which you seem to be stuck on too:)

"So you clean your perlite/verm grown clone in water till roots are clear, then u actually put the whole clone, roots and all ON TOP of the lava rocks at the very beginning?? What keeps it upright then?"

well i guess yer only stuck on the upright thingy...hhmmm...i got a picture of what the clones look like when i plant them...but ya yer fully wrong...the things do nto fall over...

i guess its how i clone too....the ver/perl as you cans ee makes a sweet hugge ass root system..and literally within 4-6 hours those roots iwll change direction and start heading towards the nutrient streams...

but as you cans ee that clone sits in ym hand without any problems...so of course it iwll sit ontop of the lava rock flawlessly:P

yes..ALWAYS feed...and you have the feed lines pointing at the bottom where the roots reach...liek i am serious...you have ti so the nutrient lines will hit a lava rock that will barely wet the end of the root..like i ams aying MAYBE 1/4" of the roots ends are getting water....then each day you pull the feed lines back....if you dont do this the roots will not trya dn reach/grow out..this is where alot of folks run into problems...i wont mention any names but the one person who is trolling e NEVER learned this...i watched all his threads and he never grasped this:/

anyhoo

peace

krusty

BlueHaze

04-07-2004, 06:39 AM

that a good piece that was lefted out. so you actual don't want to hit it directly but make it look for the nutz. awesome info came at the right time.

BigTreez

04-07-2004, 06:54 AM

"looks around" ......."slowly pulls lines away from the medium".......

krusty

04-07-2004, 09:25 AM

well look at the picture of my clone...you will see like what...200-300 little roots hanging down?? i only truely care that maybe 6-10 of them actually get nutrients...

once i GENTLY soak the clone in water and GENTLY shake as much medium off as possible (again dont grap/rip/tear the medium away from roots..very bad)...all you want to do is have roots dangling like say 3-8 inches... then i place the clone ontop of the medium....i will then take my 2 spegetti lines and shoot them NEAR the roots..but not actually hitting roots..then i will take a few LARGER lava rocks and have them in front of the nutrient stream comming from the spegetti line.....i will make sure that these larger rocks are then in contact with the roots...as i said there might be a few hundred little roots...i will actually only want maybe 6-10 of them little roots to actually be wet.....and as you can see from previous picture the root mass will MOVE/GROW towards the streams...

it is impossible to keep all the roots ends wet...and if you do this 100% the main root mass or the tap root it might be called will surely go rotten....and if it dont go rotten it will surely slow down the process...

and for the record i have mentioned this many times....but as i said....deleted threads and trolling twats have lost this info:/

but i could see if you guys dont take the time to ensure the roots are ALWAYS extending or searching for nutrients you will stress the living piss out of the clones....and i could see it taking a long time for the plants to adjust

i think this post is purty much step by step....the biggest key is to manipulate the lava rocks in a position so that the nutrient stream hits lava rock and the lava rock then is a source for the roots...BUT the nutrients will obviously flow down into the lower lava rock and the roots iwll follow this course too

peace

krusty

Payaso

04-07-2004, 09:38 AM

Obviously this is well-researched, well-tried and thanks to Krusty!!!

Looks like a laboratory in there, I love these pictures... this makes the whole process very clear indeedy...

Peace,
payaso/Chris

Payaso

04-07-2004, 09:40 AM

Forgot to also say thanks to SomeoneYouKNow... GREAt pix!!!

Are u entering them in the photo contest?

If everyone thinks only crystally bud shots are going to win, think again!!!

~Chris

SomeoneYouKnow

04-08-2004, 03:48 AM

Today will forever go down in my memory as the day I build my first ghetto domes.

I'll let the pictures speak for me. -

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1525.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1548.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1548.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1521.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1522.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1523.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_15312.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_15412.jpg

SomeoneYouKnow

04-08-2004, 03:51 AM

The clones are actually looking PRETTY SHITTY today.

Was playing ball with my little girl yesterday and twisted my ankle something NASTY !!

Was coutch-ridden last night -- called my partner and he assured me that he would be checkin on the girls and their water temps.

Anyways - not to place blame, because it was acutally MY fault for NOT being there MYSELF - anyways. . . .

REZ temp was 82 - SHIT - AHHHHHHH - AHHHHHHHHH

Ran to the store and got some Quick Homemade GHETTO CHILLERS - Bags of Ice and Gallon Ziplocks.

Here are the picts.

I'm embarassed - but honest :-( :(

~ SYK ~

SomeoneYouKnow

04-08-2004, 04:00 AM

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1422.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1428.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1434.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1437.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1439.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1440.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1452.jpg

SomeoneYouKnow

04-08-2004, 04:02 AM

HomeMade Chiller. . . .

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1419.jpg

A little too cold maybe - BUT BETTER THAN 80+ !!!

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1456.jpg

Here's how you know you are doing it right - your water lines will have condensation from the warm humid air in your room and the root-cold temp water in the tubes!!

Also Krusty - Please check my water positioning. . .think I am getting closer to how ya would do it???

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026IMG_1466.jpg

SomeoneYouKnow

04-08-2004, 04:03 AM

Those are the Ghettoest of the Ghetto Domes.

I made them with 5 gallon buckets and DRY CLEANER bags - tee hee.

~ SYK ~

krusty

04-08-2004, 04:29 AM

dewd....fuck i feel bad but i wished i was there and could just adjust the lines/shit for you....because i dont want to give you advice to move shit arround too much and fuck things up for yas...

i still think your not far enough allong that moving shit will affect them much...i actually think yer still covering the clone way too much....but see i cant see the medium in which you were clonning in.....the plant looks droopy....this might be from the lights beeing off....or something....i just dont know cause i aint there.....but the thing that bothers me is that i cant see your roots/top of tap root/very bottom of the stem kinda area....and i should be able to see this...and it looks like this area is covered over...

ya looking at the pictures your in trouble.....they are droppy the worng way....and i am telling you tis cause your feeding too close to the plant...and you should just have the eduge of the end of the root system wet...

and it is soooo hard to do this with hydrotron cause it is a bunch of litle marbles...you saw in my picture the lava rock how you can wet one side of it and it sorta stays wet and the root can wick off it....but with hydrotron it denst hold as much water...ehnce why the shit floats n crap:/

sorry dewd but you need to get them nutrient lines positioned so that the end of the roots are wet..but NOT the stem/top portion of the tap root

as for yer gheto domes...they look okies:)

but a couple things...you saw my first one..it was a plastic wrap thingy that i got from a set of bed sheets....i will take a picture of the new ones i got made up...theya re made of this sweet ass amterial that is way more see thru

this material is the same stuff that my mom usses on her tables durring xmas....you know that heavy ass plastic shit that they use as a cover over the linen type table cloth to protect it from stains???

i will take a picture tonight and post it here for yas when i get back form the grow house..

also...i aint sure why...but if you msit the inside of the ghetto domes they things raise the humdity inside ALOT...and the mist seeems to stay there for a few days:/

so try misting inside these domes..

also what is yer humdity inside these things?? did you find a huge increase like i did??

i ahte to say this...but i dont think you will...yer plants dont loook to healthy at this point:/...so they wont produce much humidity:/

peace

krusty

BigTreez

04-08-2004, 04:34 AM

shit.....that sucks....sounds like your probally better off trying to find new clones if you can.......that way you dont spend all that money time electric bill on somthing that isent gona produce as much as you like.

SomeoneYouKnow

04-08-2004, 04:40 AM

Yep - these are the shittiest plants I have ever grown - no need for ya to tell me K man - tee hee - shit :(

Yeah - Increase in humidity in the Ghetto Dome - just worried about the increase in temps also when the lights kick on - will keep a close eye on them tonight before I leave town.

I will also try and adjust the lines more - but I think I am pretty much achieving the goal of -- not getting the stem/top of tap root wet -- maybe not - will try and pull them even farther back - scarry!

Hopefully everything will pull through while I am out of town this weekend - gotta go up north to check on the Outdoor scene for this next year and get everything ready - tee hee. Keeping my fingers crossed while I am out of town the domes work as well as my ghetto chiller and that everything goes smooth -- otherwise -- when I get back -- will try another group of clones!

Laters Yall - Have a Good WEEKEND!!

~ SYK ~

SomeoneYouKnow

04-08-2004, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by payaso
Forgot to also say thanks to SomeoneYouKNow... GREAt pix!!!

Are u entering them in the photo contest?

If everyone thinks only crystally bud shots are going to win, think again!!!

~Chris

Thank You Payaso - that is a cool thing to say.

To be honest - didnt know there was a photo contest - this is the ONLY forum I visit - just have it bookmarked and come straight here.

Will look for the details - Thanks!

~ SYK ~

seeyouaunty

04-08-2004, 06:15 AM

Are those droopy clones being fed 24/7? I think they look a little overwatered.

SomeoneYouKnow

04-08-2004, 06:31 AM

I agree - which is why Krusty suggested that the lines are still too close.

YES - in a KBS there is 24 HR watering.

seeyouaunty

04-08-2004, 06:36 AM

I dunno, 24/7 feeding for such little plants may not be such a good idea. Is it possible to feed less often while they are getting established? Might be worth a shot at this stage.

krusty

04-08-2004, 07:22 AM

there is no such thing as "overwatered" in HYDROPONICS...especially in NFT...

christ...

i know this is comming from some trolls who say that watering should not happen 24/7....and these guys trolling are not trying to help you guys out...they are simply trying to discredit me by suggestign i dont know what i am doing and trying to lead you guys astray...hence them suggesting the air to roots will cause overheating....i mean how freaking stupid to suggest the air that might spend all of 1/1000th of a second in the rubber diaghram actually will pick up enough heat/energy in this area and pass it allong 20+ feet of spegetti line and then drop this heat off into the root zone...this is either a very shitty attempt of trolling or these trolls are the dumbes fucks in the world

and as i said some of these guys were unable to grasp that you cannot have the top portion of the root mass wet...you need the lower portion/the little white hairs to be constently FILMED...this is why we dont use mediums like ver/perl...because ussing ver/perl is NOT allowing the roots to be NFT

okies we call all agree the absolute best way to grow marijuana is AEROPONICS...this is where you have a constant MIST in the root chambers....the reason for this is because the roots grow best when they are constantly surrounded by air yet filmed with nutrients so that they can have whatever it is they want:)

by ussing lava rock and larger lava rock especially...air is allowed thru the medium...and the lava rock also has small chambers where the roots grasp a hold of and actually wick up nutrients...

if you look at my picture of clones 6 days old....how can you even remotely think that 24/7 watering is not the way to go??

his problems is that the upper root structure is beeing constantly fed i think...and what happens is the plant then takes nutrients form this area and nto form the lwoer portion of the roots which kills off the lwoer section of roots then the plant will stunt while it re adjusts...and alot of the times it will die off..

you guys ever hear or see of them new house plant pots that have the bottom feed inserts??? where you feed from the bottom isntead of the top???

well that is the reason..and this is one of the reasons why i tell you guys that soil growwing is fucked..because you cannot top feed plants and expect the root structure to grow......

peace

krusty

seeyouaunty

04-08-2004, 07:47 AM

Hiya Krusty :)

>> i know this is comming from some trolls who say that watering should not happen 24/7....

Hey i never said they shouldn't be watered 24/7, i was just making an observation that his plants look overwatered and maybe it might be worth feeding less until they are established. Just throwin out some ideas bro.

>> and these guys trolling are not trying to help you guys out...they are simply trying to discredit me by suggestign i dont know what i am doing and trying to lead you guys astray...

I assume you are not refering to me here? I've never directly refered to you before krusty, personal attacks are not my style.

>> and as i said some of these guys were unable to grasp that you cannot have the top portion of the root mass wet...you need the lower portion/the little white hairs to be constently FILMED...this is why we dont use mediums like ver/perl...because ussing ver/perl is NOT allowing the roots to be NFT

Agreed, the top root mass should not be wet all the time. Judging by 'SomeoneYouKnow' pics the top root mass looks like they are wet.

>> if you look at my picture of clones 6 days old....how can you even remotely think that 24/7 watering is not the way to go??

I was not talking about hydro growing in general, just ''SomeoneYouKnow's specific case here because they look overwatered to me. I'm sure your clones are doing just fine (can't see the pics yet), no argument there bro. But i was talking about 'SomeoneYouKnow's clones.

>> his problems is that the upper root structure is beeing constantly fed i think...

I agree, feeding less often than 24/7 in 'SomeoneYouKnow's specific case here may help until they get established.

Setting the feed lines in the correct place (your advice) also solves the problem, and it is probably the best solution. I'm Just throwing out some options for the dude :)

krusty

04-08-2004, 08:10 AM

seeyou aunty - sorry if i came off as tho i thought YOU were trolling...

i wasnt..

its just lately a few trolls have been telling these guys NOT to 24/7 water ....hell they got one guy ussing ver/perl in 5 gallon buckets...

and the reason why is i bet this guy is having same problems as syk...

it was when you say "overwatering" is what set off my alarm..(as in i thought you got bad info from the trolls)

do you know what i mean????

cause to me honestly you cannot ever overwater in NFT....you just have to make sure the right area of the root is wet and that the top portion is dry...

but i agree....what yer saying is okies IF you make sure the roots NEVER dry out.....like if yer suggesting until the root system is established to have the watering say on for 20 minutes off for 40 minutes....with some sorta 60 minute timer thingy....

but when you mention 24/7 watering i thought you meant what the trolls have been telling these guys to do..and to let the plants DRY out durring lights off..
and this is mis information...the pants need nutrients when lights are off as much as lights on

seeyuaunty you see where i am comming form now bro???

i see where yer comming form i think now....and sorry if you thought i was beeing too much an asshole....

its just the BEST way i have found is to simply adjust the feed lines os that the top portion is always dry and the lower ends are always FILMED *AND* growwing towards the nutrient stream...hence pulling the nutrients away bit by bit to make the roots reach out

peace

krusty

Lex Dysic

04-08-2004, 09:18 AM

mmmwassup with the clay balls and the tiny netpots??

SomeoneYouKnow

04-08-2004, 10:45 AM

Well guys -- I'm off.

Headed back to Mendocino/Humbolt Counties - Woo Panty Raiding Hoo !!

I'll drive 600 miles today before I sleep.

Wish me luck - SYK

seeyouaunty

04-08-2004, 04:14 PM

Good luck SYK! Enjoy your panty raiding :cool:

No worries Krusty, i see where you are coming from. :)
I didn't mean stop feeding during lights off, i was thinking more along the lines of what you said:

>>like if yer suggesting until the root system is established to have the watering say on for 20 minutes off for 40 minutes....with some sorta 60 minute timer thingy....

just to see if they perk up or something.

>> its just the BEST way i have found is to simply adjust the feed lines os that the top portion is always dry and the lower ends are always FILMED *AND* growwing towards the nutrient stream...hence pulling the nutrients away bit by bit to make the roots reach out

Yup, that makes good sense to me.

krusty

04-08-2004, 06:01 PM

ya they will perk up...

this is how ebb and flow is based....

but it is flawwed....and the reason is the medium...

most ebb and flow is rockwool...some use hydrotron or lava rock too....but again there is way too many variables...and you constantly have to adjust the system so that the top portion of the roots mass is dried out once in awhile and the bottom portion is constantly wet...

rockwool is FULLY FLAWWED...cause no matter what you do the bottom portion of the roots will ALWAYS dry out way before the top portion cause the rockwool holds water so well....

as long as the roots are within the rockwool cubes it grows great...but once the roots are trying to establish themselves outside of the rockwool there becomes problems...

this is why you will see drain tables that have the huge vallies in them....

when i was gowwing back in like 91-92 and i was ussing rockwool first they had me ussing one style of a table...then they had me ussing another style of table with these vallies.....and basically you fload and drained until the roots hit the bottom of these vallies then i found that constantly feeding the bottom of these vallies instead of floading worked better...as in never wetting the rockwool at all...then the plants seemed to sitll have problems so we added small air lines in these vallies to increase air...which helped alot....direct air to roots even under warmer conditions will prevent root rot in alot of cases...but still the temps were to high....so that is when we realized the resivoirs needed to be sunken in cold concrete..and that also helped....we then ussed ice blocks and crap....but basically we realized that this system was flawwed and at about this time i went back into growwing trees/buckets but i took what i learned from the flaws in fload and drain ussed it towards the buckets:P

so basically when i went to buckets i had probs all the time first year with clones trying to start them out....we tried everything...in variable houses i had at this time....and nothing worked....some clones went perfect....grew like way fast..others jsut died off for no reason.....after a shit load of losses i finally started to study the pant in great detail...this is when i realized the ones that made it were jsut by fluke clones that ahd the nutrient flow simply on the ends...after this i also noticed the clones where we just dropped them ontop did better too....that is when i realized that like with the rockwool cubes you must allow the top portion of the roots to dry out fuilly..and you need the end of the roots to be constantly wet.....

so by having them on and off is okies for say a week....to maybe establish them once you have fucked up kinda thingy....but it is hard to try and figure out how often to feed them especially if the roots are down in the lava rock....this is why i jsut say to raise the things up and be done with it...

but i think in syk case he doesnt use the ver/perl medium to clone into so as he said the clones dont anchor well enough.....

so bottom line you want to clone in a medium/style (verm/perl/larger cube..as in 3 inch by 3 inch by 3 inch deep kinda containers) and this will ensure you have a steady base that wont fall over:)

peace

krusty

Guest

04-08-2004, 06:30 PM

You must feed 24/7 with aero,or roots will die.
Anyone who says different has a stake in seeing you fail.

Greenja

04-08-2004, 09:55 PM

Krusty, sorry for the delay..busy last couple of dys.

First off, Thanks Alot for taking the time to type out such an excellent, and in my opinion, mandatory to know, "primer" on beginning clones in a kfb grow. Wish we'd had this discussion earlier last yr. lol I lost both of my clones..in RW (you're so right about this shit holding water)...set "In" the lava rock. All so wrong hehe I think u can use rw if thats' all you have, but you have to use your setup and feed instructions even moreso and perhaps monitor more. I want to discuss some indiv. stuff:

<<greenja - forst off i want to make this clear....and it is in wrong order of yer questions..but i want to take what you say and fully support yer views...
Wow, now's there's a first! lol...just kidding in case ya can't tell hehe

<<if you dont start them off perfectly they end up beeing a pain in the ass thru the whole damn process...and seriously...it took me at least 3 years to perfect the art of transplanting clones to the buckets....

i tried everything...but then i realized the wierdest thing worked...which you seem to be stuck on too

Yeah, i'd say so lol

<<"So you clean your perlite/verm grown clone in water till roots are clear, then u actually put the whole clone, roots and all ON TOP of the lava rocks at the very beginning?? What keeps it upright then?"

Yeah, have my cuttings this round in verm/perl. thx for the photo. nice to have something to compare against.

<<yes..ALWAYS feed...and you have the feed lines pointing at the bottom where the roots reach...liek i am serious...you have ti so the nutrient lines will hit a lava rock that will barely wet the end of the root..like i ams aying MAYBE 1/4" of the roots ends are getting water....then each day you pull the feed lines back....if you dont do this the roots will not trya dn reach/grow out..this is where alot of folks run into problems....
i think this post is purty much step by step....the biggest key is to manipulate the lava rocks in a position so that the nutrient stream hits lava rock and the lava rock then is a source for the roots...BUT the nutrients will obviously flow down into the lower lava rock and the roots iwll follow this course too>>

Yup, me included last yr. Then just 1/4" end of roots are getting wet, primarily by wicking moisture off surr. lava rock. good to know and easier to pic..thx And pull out a bit each dy. is crucial here imo.
And do you say after initial 2 wk. period rotate the lines 90degrees to encourage a full 360 degr. root ball?

anyway, excellent summary Krusty.

Greenja

krusty

04-09-2004, 06:33 AM

greenja - excellent back up dewd:) i LOVE it when somone sees the same shit i do.....and it is good for others to see so that they are encouraged to do it this way:P

instead of rotaing if yer truely worried....take 2 1/4" T's and put them on the end of each feed line...then you will have 4 areas in which nutrients flow down (i got a house going right now...the one with the latest pix..and we are lazy and only have 1 feed line no t's...teehee) but to be honest i dont see that much of a difference between 2 or 4 areas....

i like this alot too....

"Rezdog - You must feed 24/7 with aero,or roots will die.
Anyone who says different has a stake in seeing you fail. "

you can feed on and off ....but it is very hard and you can literally kill them off with one fuck up....so that is why i always say you gotta feed 24/7...and as rezdog has mentioned ....if somoen tells you otherwise they are trying to fuck you guys up..
this is why i got so pissed off when no one was trolling telling all you guys not to feed 24/7....caue it was as tho he wanted you guys to fuck up or some shit..

anyhoo good call rezdog....

peace

krusty

Guest

04-09-2004, 08:35 AM

wether I agree w K$ or not,it's a FACT:
You DO have to pay attention 24/7 to the feeding,as K. sez,it's not NECESSARY 24/7,but one TINY mistake WILL f*ck you,and HARD,so be alert :) and feed CLOSE to reccys.

**I'm not a prick,I just don't wanna' see bandwidth wasted,is all.

no-one

04-09-2004, 10:59 AM

i dont feed 24/7 and my plants arnt dead! but then i also ditched the areo setup in the bottom bucket cause i found it was unessercay and didnt increase yeilds but did increase problems, heat and niose!

SomeoneYouKnow

04-14-2004, 06:54 AM

Got Back from my trip today.

Pretty tired. Drove almost 600 miles and went straight to my kids !! . .so I will let the picts do the talking. - I'm gonna drink and go to bed - tee hee.

They still dont look that great - especially the lagger - but it seams we all have one in our first Krusty grows - huh?

Think I got a little leaf twist from overdoing the co2 in the domes - any thoughts on this? - turned it down.

Also moved the water lines back more - feels good to be back in town and able to tend to my kids myself -

That . . .. and the jacuzzi in the back yard!

Finally the chiller has arrived!

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026Chill.jpg

The room - one half then the other

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026W1R1.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026W1R2.jpg

The Kids - in 1,2,3,4,5,6 order. The 6th is a different strain!

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026W1P1.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026W1P2.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026W1P3.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026W1P4.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026W1P5.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026W1P6.jpg

Goodnight
~ S Y K ~

Killacash

04-14-2004, 03:55 PM

Dont mind this post

no-one

04-14-2004, 05:55 PM

dunno bout u but i think all them pics look like bad overwater! this will lead to root rot and plant death!

no-one

04-14-2004, 06:16 PM

also if u have a close look the medium seems to be soaked all over! this is bad! small pants cant handle the amount of water ur pumping in their! even in a pure krusty bucket small pants have trouble copeing with loads of water and need to be timed fed till their big enough to handel it! im not a beliver in 24/7 feeding sept for pure areo growing but but if u insist on doing it let the girls get a grip on life first!

Funkyskunk

04-14-2004, 07:27 PM

i think the medium looks soaked from the splashing of the nutes. and maybe he should bury that feed line an inch or so into the grow rocks.

remember, you only want the very tips of the roots to get filmed. therefor feed line placement is key.

how many feed lines you have going into each bucket, SYK?

Fs

no-one

04-14-2004, 07:32 PM

have to disagree! haveing grown in hydroton myself i would say that he has way tooo much water going into the top bucket! splashing is minamul if u had done this urself u would know that! this is pure soaking of medium! its no good!

Funkyskunk

04-14-2004, 07:40 PM

no-0ne, in the last pic he put up, i can see a stream of water aiming right at the stalk of the stem, this is a no-no, IMO.

as fas as the medium being soaked all over, that is why i asked how many feed lines he has in each bucket. without that info, how can you say what is making the other side of the grow rocks wet?

Fs

no-one

04-14-2004, 07:46 PM

if u had read his threads or posts u would know he has 2 feedlines as per the normal k bucket setup dose! also u would see how much water is comeing out of the feed lines! this is bad!!! as u can see over water is rampent in these pics!! mate im not argueing with u cause if u had used this system u would know right away what im talking about! im just trying to help the guy! if he dosent want no help well fine he can just post here and say so! if he has a failed crop its kmans fault not mine!

no-one

04-14-2004, 07:48 PM

see this post!
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1026W1P2.jpg
yeah well not on the stem if u ask me

Funkyskunk

04-14-2004, 08:03 PM

i just think it could be cured with better feed line placement.

and i do read all the kbs threads, i just dont remember all the details of everyones setup. you know, short term memory loss. its a fucker!

Fs

no-one

04-14-2004, 09:45 PM

r u saying this overwater prob could be fixed with line placement? well im saying it cant! less u put a >1gal/hour driper on the line! have u grown this method? just asking cause experiance is paramount around here! im saying with young plants nomater what system u use u cant feed from 2 4mm or biger say 1/4" feed lines and expect ur plants to like it! they just cant handel the water! and i ask any krusty growers (becides krusty) to say their plants can hack it??????

krusty

04-14-2004, 10:01 PM

funky skunk - i got the troll on ignore and i suggest you do the same...hes here to troll n to fuck people up NOT to help

you are right he has the feed lines too close to the palnts stalk...imho....the ends of the roots need to be wet ....

peace

krusty

krusty

04-14-2004, 10:03 PM

another thing i would liek to mention...hes ussing hydrotron...and well that is a huge ass mistake there..

you MUST use lava rock...it allows you to control the netrients alot better to get the plant started..

tonight i when i go to my other place i will take a few pictures and shwo yas..

i think me and SYK both started our clones at the same time....so it will kinda proove to yawl why you gotta use lava rock and why you msut keep the feed lines in the right location

peace

krusty

DeadHeadFread

04-14-2004, 10:06 PM

noone....... what medium do you grow in.......and would you key us in on your feeding schedule?think krusty AND rezdog said that in true aeroponics ,you feed 24/7...........have seen many of both of their grows with no probs.............movin the lines away from the main stem and diverting feed away from EVERYTHING except the bottom 1/4 inch of roots is a must............at least thats what the MEN say!.......help us out noone we want the bigger better deal! .............. confusing people bout the way you do it isnt helpin all the ones that are tryin to dial in a SYSTEM.............pics I saw were in hydroton............nuff said bout moisture retention..............DHF.... .........SYK.......keep up the good work...... youll dial it in ................nothin good ever came easy................

no-one

04-14-2004, 10:39 PM

gee krusty for a guy thats got me on ignor u sure seem to know what im talkin bout! so onece again ur full of shit but thats not the point! u know as well as i do them plants are over watered and medium is not realy the issue here!neither is line placement! its the 24/7!! them plants r too young for it and u will admit that if u got half a sack on you? and dhf/aka krusty this is not areoponics and if ur alter ego alowed some inteligants u would know that!

SomeoneYouKnow

04-15-2004, 02:22 AM

I agree with everyone. . . .

The problem IS overwatering - I have known that from the start.

Maybe the issue is with the hydroton, or the stream placement - I dont know.

I NEED to SOLVE the problem.

I have put the watering pump on a digital timer.

One Hour ON - One Hour OFF - starting with lights on. 12 ON/OFF cycles per day.

I have also set up two digital 14 program timers back to back to cause the CO2 to kick on every 40 minutes for 5 minutes - cept for the loading in the beginning of lights on and the last cycle before lights off.

Keepin my fingers crossed.

~ SYK ~

SomeoneYouKnow

04-15-2004, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by DeadHeadFread
SYK.......keep up the good work...... youll dial it in ................nothin good ever came easy................

Thanks - means a lot -

COULDN'T BE MORE TRUE.

The problems I had to overcome with this ( especially the ones that I didnt share in my threads - like electricity. . . )

Just keepin my fingers crossed - actually - fuk dat - I'm being PROactive! . . .and dealing with the obsticles as they come up.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions ( you know who you are ) ! ! !

krusty

04-15-2004, 03:22 AM

well dewd here are them pictures i told yas i would get...

these plants have been in these buckets 2 weeks 2 days...

they are by no means the best ...but they are healthy...

they have been watered 24/7 since day one...

but...they are in lava rock...hydrotron sucks....

you cannot properly place the feed lines with hydrotron...

so now that i provided the pictures/proof end of discussion...ya want to use a timer this time cause yas ussed hydrotron by all means...but look at the pictures i provided to yas...this was without co2 and i am sorry but they look a shit load healthier then anything ussed in hydrotron or with any sorta timed feeding cycle

next time use lava rock and keep the ends of the roots wet 24/7 and you will have plants AT ELAST as healthy as these:)

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/2202004april14.jpg
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/2202004april14c.jpg
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/2202004april14b.jpg

peace

krusty

DeadHeadFread

04-15-2004, 03:40 AM

syk.............this aint krusty.............youve got issues to work out and ............DONT WE ALL..........noones bullshit will do nothin but stray you from where youre wantin to end up ,cause he`s got the bigger better deal.......just ask him.........sure overwatering is a prob,but you youve already answered your own questions..................... get rid of the moisture holdin hydroton and go with the real thing...... GET THE WATER AWAY FROM THE TOP ROOTS.......................yo ure just that good and have confidence that you can dial this in and get major buddage!............your friend..........DHF........... .

DeadHeadFread

04-15-2004, 03:42 AM

nuff said .........showem ,KLOWN.............

SomeoneYouKnow

04-15-2004, 06:06 AM

Originally posted by DeadHeadFread
get rid of the moisture holdin hydroton and go with the real thing......

Suggestions ? ?

Short of re-potting the entire plants ??

Will check them in the mornin and see what kind of results putting them on a timer had.

Thanks DHF

SYK

krusty

04-15-2004, 06:24 AM

SYK - do you think my pictures are lying????

i am serious...you think i ussed photoshop??? you saw the pix of these plants like a week ago as a clone....you cannot see how well they have done in comparison???

again...syk i am NOT trying to be rude...but what in fuck are you thinking???

no one says that you can use hydrotron and he said not to feed them 24/7...yet it is obvious he is a troll...it is obvious no one learned from me this style of growwing even tho he NEVER got any results like mine....it is obvious no one has maybe 3 KBS grows under his belt.....do you think i am lying when i say i have 100's????

do you think i am lying whne i tlel oyu i have grown this system for enarly a decade??? i have shown you pictures of my ass with this system in 1995....i shwoed you pictures in 2001...and i showed you a few pictures of my set up form 2003/2004 not one of no ones grows look nearly as healthy as mine...

yet you go with no ones advice to use hydrotron and to use a timer to feed...

plus you think that ussing this timer idea will shape them up over night...hence you saying we will see tomorrow...

syk...i am not trying ot be mean but wtf are you thinking????

do you think i am telling you this shit to play games or to play net politics???

to win a internet agruement???

i think to fix them yer going to have to baby the ever living shit out of them...as in watch the feed lines every 3 or 4 hours all night long....get in there and pull away the hydrotron from the stem...make sure only the roots are getting nutrients...even pull the plants up a bit if it isnt locked in...i cant see how the plant is locked in cause hydrotron is like a bunch of light wieght marbles..

i might have missed something syk...but to me it looks liek yer taking no ones advice as far as feeding and medium to use....a week ago when i told you to take them out and put them in lava rock and cut up the little pots so the roots can break them up is when you should have done this....now i dont knwo what to say...but if yer hydro bills are 700 a month then oyu best figure out something.....i am sorry it is all bad news but to me IF..and this is a big IF ...we both planted at same time...and i think we did.....then isnt it obvious yer not doing something right here???

so please correct me if i am wrong as far as when we both panted out clones...also tell me either here or in pm why in fuck yer listening to some half wit about timming yer feed???

peace

krusty

SomeoneYouKnow

04-15-2004, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by krusty
SYK - do you think my pictures are lying????

i am serious...you think i ussed photoshop??? you saw the pix of these plants like a week ago as a clone....you cannot see how well they have done in comparison???

again...syk i am NOT trying to be rude...but what in fuck are you thinking???

Woah - Woah - Woah Krusty!!

What are you talking about - please clarify yourself.

I'm not doubting. . .. what did I say that sounded like that??

SYK!

SomeoneYouKnow

04-15-2004, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by krusty

yet you go with no ones advice to use hydrotron and to use a timer to feed...

Ohhh - I see what you are saying...

NO - you have it WRONG.

I ahve said before - that the reason for Hydroton is because of crappy lava and I need to find a new source.

The timer idea - had NOTHING to do with no-one.

Had to do with my OWN personal way to try and compensate for the problem that I made choosing Hydroton.

I ahve said in other threads . . .and I will say here again - that I have tried to do EVERYTHING IN MY POWER - to make this system as much like yours as possible - fact - it should be exact cept for the hydroton and the rez in the room - but I didnt know bout the rez in the room part when I built it out.

Anyways - I'm not listening to ANYONE'S suggestions - even my friends here that I grow with - I'm trying to follow the Klowns advice as close as possible.

K?

~ SYK ~

krusty

04-15-2004, 06:29 AM

oh...and just for you guys dont fuck this up again...and maybe if i am a wee bit mean about it...

get this thru yer fucking thick heads you fucking idiots....you cannot overfeed the ends of the roots!!!

can you guys understand this simple fucking logic???

is this tooo fucking hard for you fucking morons to understand????

you jsut cannot keep the top portion of the root mass wet...as in the tap root...you want the area JUST BELOW the stem to keep dry ALWAYS....

is this fucking too hard for you to understand??

hello anyone home???

you can put fancy timers...you can breathe on them/....play mozoart for them....you can hang upside down nekid with a whine bottle out yer fucking ass...NOTHING will work as well as if you just keep the ends of the roots wet and NEVER the area right below the stem

now you guys get picture???

lmao

cause i am fucking sick of telling it to you guys nicely:P

peace

krusty

teehee

SomeoneYouKnow

04-15-2004, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by krusty

so please correct me if i am wrong as far as when we both panted out clones...also tell me either here or in pm why in fuck yer listening to some half wit about timming yer feed???

I dont need to hide in PMs.

I'll say it right here.

The choice for Hydroton was out of NECESSITY at the time.

The choice to add a timer NOW is out of FAILURE to get Lava Rock.

Neither were decisions that I made based on other's suggestions.

krusty

04-15-2004, 06:33 AM

lmfao

okies...

cause fuck me i aint keeping track syk of everyones things too well....

i jsut saw a few weeks back no one suggesting what YOUR doing..

and i am like..

UHM WTF!!!!

why is he listening to his ass when i am showwing him pictures...

sorry dewd....but i do hope you realize.....that when i am nice and i go "oh that might work but you might want to try this"

nobody fucking listens...

but when i go ...

"look you fucking half witted piece a shit...do this or i will rip yas a new asshole!!!"

they seem to listen:P

lmao

peace bro...sorry PM if you want some advice or if you want me to like figure this shit out...or icq me or something...cause i fele for yas...and i truely think yours were plantesd same time as mine so i knwo something is wrong...and i aint there to see it..

peace

krusty

SomeoneYouKnow

04-15-2004, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by krusty
....a week ago when i told you to take them out and put them in lava rock and cut up the little pots so the roots can break them up is when you should have done this....now i dont knwo what to say...but if yer hydro bills are 700 a month then oyu best figure out something.....i

A week ago I didnt have a PH stable Lava Rock available to me that I felt comfortable using.

Also - I NEEDED to leave town - planting season outdoors is NOW and I'm makin extra income producing clones by the hundreds for the farmers up there.

I HATED to do it - to leave my girls - but I HAD to.

I KNOW that I am not going to get the optimum results ( or even close ) after all this IS my first KBS - BUT. . . .other than the Hydroton - I am TRYING to get it as close to YOUR specifications Krusty as possible.

No?

SYK

krusty

04-15-2004, 06:35 AM

hey dewd...go to the chat channel and we will spend an hour and try and figure this shit out......

SomeoneYouKnow

04-15-2004, 06:38 AM

Originally posted by krusty

sorry dewd....but i do hope you realize.....that when i am nice and i go "oh that might work but you might want to try this"

nobody fucking listens...

but when i go ...

"look you fucking half witted piece a shit...do this or i will rip yas a new asshole!!!"

they seem to listen:P

I totally feel yas on this!

Which is why I dont take the roughness in your online persona personally - I think you have developed it to help people.

WHICH YOU JUST CONFIRMED.

THANKS K-Man!

Wouldnt be doin this shit like this if it wasnt for yas!

Would love to take you up on yer offer for help - wish yas was here

SYK

SomeoneYouKnow

04-15-2004, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by SomeoneYouKnow
. . .. .wish yas was here

Then we could go in the kitchen and eat some fresh growin shroomies!!

Woo Hoo.

I ahvent eaten boomers in almost a year - gonna take the day "off" from "work" Next Tuesday ( 4/20 ) and eat me some shrooms!!

Tee Hee

SYK

krusty

04-15-2004, 06:43 AM

no dewd...go to the chat channel...its javascript or mirc.....do you knwo where to go ??? i can find yas a link if you dont knwo where it is...

krusty

04-15-2004, 06:47 AM

here this is the link to the chatroom

http://www.icmag.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=5

i wills tick arround there for another 10 minutes...

but ya if we are real time i think maybe i can figure out a solution for yas...

peace

krusty

ps- ya i dont give a rats ass if you guys like me or not....but it seems the only time folks listen or try my shit out is when i act up n crap

seeyouaunty

04-15-2004, 06:48 AM

Lemme get this straight krusty, you say that plants can be fed 24/7 in lava rock. Right? No problems there.

He isn't using lava rock. I'll say it again, he isn't using lava rock. Your advice is based on using lava rock, and he isn't using lava rock.

His plants *are* overwatered, and he has taken necesary steps to save his crop. I'm sure he will use lava rock next time with 24/7 feeding, but right here an now it was obvious that 24/7 was overwatering his plants. Hydroton wicks up moisture unlike lava rock, that is where i think the problem is coming in.

Talking about how he should have done it with lava rock is interesting, but not at all useful to the situation at hand. Do you disagree krusty?

seeyouaunty

04-15-2004, 06:51 AM

btw i'm in chat

krusty

04-15-2004, 06:54 AM

#cannachat krusty H% fuck@**************** :1 notta
#cannachat End of /WHO list.

no yer not...lmao

only i am:)

peace

krusty

krusty

04-15-2004, 07:04 AM

seeyouaunty - first off i said THIS>>>>"you jsut cannot keep the top portion of the root mass wet...as in the tap root...you want the area JUST BELOW the stem to keep dry ALWAYS...."

so what fucking part of that do you not understand:P

it dont fucking matter IF you use lava rock or rockwool or dirt or your fucking grannies panties you fucking halw witted moron...

i fucking dont care..

the OBJECT is to keep the end of the roots WET..the tap root or top portion of roots or the area under the stem DRY

is this any fucking more clear????

again...even if you use yer granmothers panties as fucking medium...whcih in my fucking opinion would work as well as hydrotron .....this si what you MUST DO!!!!

ussing a timmer will work cause of the fact you will dry off the roots yes...BUT....get this thru yer thick fucking skulls...it iwll stunt/streess them...

okies...i thought this was kinda simplistic but i guess some of you ant grasping this shit..

what dires out faster?? the ends of the roots or the tap root????

well cum on answer you fucking einstiens???

the fucking end roots that are sooo smal will OBVIOUSLY dry out faster...that is why we MUST keep them wet 24/7 but we want them to grow away from the tap root....and we want the tap root dry all the time...we want the tap root to look like a big ole solid oak...

does this fucking sink in???

another point i want to make....i would bet i got more grows under my belt ussing hydrotron then any one of you.....i wll admit yes in times where i knew no better or when i was forced to use hydrotron i sused it...BUT...i would drive 5 hours to another city to find good lava rock cause i KNOW BETTER NOW!!!

so stop thinking...stop asuming you know what i have done....i KNOW i have more rockwool crops under ym blet then any of yas....i ussed the shit in systems for 3 years...multiple grow houses as in....one place we had 4,000 clones a onth going thru with rockwool.....i am NOT just KBS.....i have ussed ALOT of systems over the years....

so my advice isnt intresting...its fucking the way it is.....

peace

krusty

guerillablaze

04-15-2004, 07:09 AM

SYK,
Sorry to hear you are having issues partner :( I can just say that I wholeheartedly agree with Krusty....) you HAVE to cut those cups off of your girls.... even if you have to leave just the bottom portion of it with no side walls that way the base will have room to grow out (sideways) without all the stress of the cup.

I had a problem with over watering my girls in my Kootenay style system so I had to switch back to 1 minute on 4 minutes off cycle. They have perked right back up but please understand that I am using hydroton with a 9" net basket. I am using cyclestat timer which you can adjust your feeding schedules so much more easily than a traditional digital timer ince it is not based off of a 24hour day. Let's say you wanted to stay on 2 minutes while off 3.... you can do anyone of a number of different combinations with this type of timer.
Here is a link to what I am talking about...... http://www.greenair.com/cyclestat.htm this one does not have the ability to go as short as 1 minute on/off but if you look for one I am sure you can find it.

You probably won't get the monsters you would have hoped for but you can still pull it out and be more prepared for the next run. I saw that you were using ghetto-domes for humidity control. I thought you had a fogger? Is it not enough?

Peace and good luck!!

SomeoneYouKnow

04-15-2004, 07:15 AM

SHIT Krusty!!

Just saw your posts.

Ranted for a while - then went to drink some Tequila and watch "The Shield" on Tivo!

Err - Darn - Would have loved to have spent some time wit cha - will do it soon!

SYK

SomeoneYouKnow

04-15-2004, 07:17 AM

Originally posted by krusty
again...even if you use yer granmothers panties as fucking medium...whcih in my fucking opinion would work as well as hydrotron .....this si what you MUST DO!!!!

I'd prob agree with you

SomeoneYouKnow

04-15-2004, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by guerillablaze

. . .. I saw that you were using ghetto-domes for humidity control. I thought you had a fogger? Is it not enough?

Peace and good luck!!

Yes I do - no it is not enough - keeps the humidity at 45%

Thanks - SYK

seeyouaunty

04-15-2004, 07:21 AM

"you jsut cannot keep the top portion of the root mass wet...as in the tap root...you want the area JUST BELOW the stem to keep dry ALWAYS...."

so what fucking part of that do you not understand:P

Dude, look at SYK's pictures. It is pretty obvious the tops are not dry. Hydroton wicks up moisture unlike lava, wouldn't you agree?

DeadHeadFread

04-15-2004, 07:23 AM

dear GOD............IS IT NOT OBVIOUS WHAT TO DO?............all this sidebar bullshit just takes away from the truth .........get it or get out.....dont take a rocket scientist to fig out WHAT TO DO.........we`re all listenin to too many chiefs when theres only 1...do it and listen or god help us all......... noone and hippo can help ya..................lmfao..... ....DHF..................

SomeoneYouKnow

04-15-2004, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by seeyouaunty
Dude, look at SYK's pictures. It is pretty obvious the tops are not dry. Hydroton wicks up moisture unlike lava, wouldn't you agree?

DUDE - WTF?

Are you trying to start an argument.

Sounds to me like you and Krusty are in agreeance.

krusty

04-15-2004, 07:34 AM

guerillablaze - you seem like a nice person and all...but your not grasping this...

i dont care if you agree with me...or not...

i dont care what you use as a system...i dont care what you think it should be..

THIS IS THE WAY IT WORKS!!!

no other way.....no maybe this might work...

no "well we dont all have to grow yer way krusty.."

it aint my fucking way

its all bullshit....the way i tell you guys simpyl is the way it is....by books...byt pros...by my peers....not jsut by ME

see the reaosn why you use a cyclestat is to try and keep the tap root dry is it not???

do you have problems if yer root ends are wet?? if you say you do then yer lying...

NO YOU DONT..

hence why DWC DOES work but just not VERY WELL...and why you ask??c ause i said 1000 times you want al root structure to have access to air....then you just want the ends of the roots FILMED with nutrients..not drowned in them....even tho if you allow the ends (dwc people dont have any success when the top portion of the root structure is drowned only when they do the lower part..)

now the problem with advising these guys to use timers is it sways them from the truth...maybe yer just unable to grasp this...maybe you dont realize this ...but agian here it is in the most simpliest of terms..

i ussed a method which is called suspension way back in early 90's...this is a method where you use NO MEDIUM at all....you use a wire that holds up the clone and with time you add support by a screen....

while ussing this style of growwing i realized alot/learned alot from how the plant acted...thus it showed me what area i wanted dry and what area i wanted wet...

and i am telling you that if you let the thing dry out the ends of the roots will dry out and die off..and they will NOT come back...but the tap root WILL COME BACK...so each time you dry and then wet with timers yer stunting/killing off the ends of the roots bit by bit and simply confusing the plant...because are we all in agreement we want the tap root dry???

if so give me a hell ya:P

and do we all agree that we want a film on the end of the roots??? and that if we allow the system to have a on and off time thingy that if anything dries out first it iwll be the end roots...NEVER the tap root portion .....we know this form when we clone...we see the little ends of the roots die off if they dry out...

so use ocmmon sense PELASE!!!

so wtf is the problem??? why cant you guys incorprate this into each of yer styles of growwing???

use yer fucking hydrotron and net pots n crap....but at least use what is COMMON SENSE....

teehee

i am sorry but your suggestions are sooooooo flawwed....

peace

krusty

SomeoneYouKnow

04-15-2004, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by krusty
if so give me a hell ya:P

Hell Ya!

Chat?

guerillablaze

04-15-2004, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by krusty
guerillablaze - you seem like a nice person and all...but your not grasping this...
Thanks, glad to hear it... ;)
i dont care if you agree with me...or not...

i dont care what you use as a system...i dont care what you think it should be..

THIS IS THE WAY IT WORKS!!!
Well....seeing is believing so.......
see the reaosn why you use a cyclestat is to try and keep the tap root dry is it not???

do you have problems if yer root ends are wet?? if you say you do then yer lying...
No, actually the reason why I use the cyclestat is because with hydroton and a continous feed I was overwatering my plants... well actually just 2 of them. Now that I switched back to the cyclestat I am doing well.
use yer fucking hydrotron and net pots n crap....but at least use what is COMMON SENSE....

teehee

i am sorry but your suggestions are sooooooo flawwed....

peace

krusty
I appreciate your insight and advice. There is no doubt you have WAY more experience than I will have even in the next 10 years. I am just letting SYK know what has worked for me and since he is going to be using a digital timer anyway I felt that it would be better for his plants if he could make his watering cycles that much shorter rather than the one hour apart he had been planning on doing.

I had a question about your cloning.... in all of the years I have followed your stuff I had never seen a pic of one of your clones that you were about to transplant. How is it that your clones are so BUSHY even though they are still so small? Is it the strain or do you have a technique to getting them that way?