organic nutes...

[Guest]

well, at the moment I'm growing in soil but hopefully my next grow will take place in a hydro setup and I just have a few questions regarding organic nutes and their use. Firstly, I've been told that because organic nutes arent composed of the mineral salts that inorganic types contain, that you cant take accurate ppm readings of the solution in your res. Is this true?. Also, is the taste/aroma significantly 'better' when using organics as opposed to other methods? I am aware that the term 'better' is a fairly loose one and differs from person to person so I am asking basically for opinions... thanks folks... :joint:

[Guest]

Using Organic Fertilizers
Taken from Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening

Organic gardeners use fertilizers like seasonings: they add the finishing touch that brings out the very best in plants. Because an organically managed soil is biologically active and rich in nutrients, organic gardeners don't need to pour on fertilizers to get good plant performance.

If you're a gardener who's making the switch from chemical to organic fertilizers, you may be afraid that using organic materials will be more complicated and less convenient than using premixed chemical fertilizers. Not so! Commercially formulated organic fertilizer blends can be just as convenient and effective as blended synthetic fertilizers. You don't need to custom-feed your plants unless it's an activity you enjoy. So while some experts will spread a little blood meal around their tomatoes at planting, and then some bonemeal just when the blossoms are about to pop, most gardeners will be satisfied to make one or two applications of general-purpose organic fertilizer throughout the garden.

If you want to try a plant-specific approach to fertilizing, you can use a variety of specialty organic fertilizers that are available from mail-order supply companies or at many well-stocked garden centers. For example, you can use blood meal, chicken-feather meal, or fish meal as nitrogen sources. Bonemal is a good source of phosphorus, and kelp or greensand are organic sources of potassium.

Dry Organic Fertilizers

Dry organic fertilizers can be made from a single material, such as rock phosphate or kelp, or can be a blend of many ingredients. Almost all organic fertilizers provide a broad array of nutrients, but blends are specially formulated to provide balanced amounts of nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorus, as well as micronutrients. There are several commercial blends, but you can make you own general-purpose fertilizer by mixing individual soil amendments as well.

Applying dry fertilizers: The most common way to apply dry fertilizer is to broadcast it and then hoe or rake it in the top 4” - 6” of soil. You can add small amounts to planting holes or rows as you plant seeds or transplants. Unlike dry synthetic fertilizers, most organic fertilizers are non burning and will not harm delicate seedling roots.

During the growing season, boost plant growth by side-dressing dry fertilizers in crop rows or around the drip line of trees or shrubs. It's best to work side-dressings into the top inch of the soil.

Liquid Organic Fertilizers

Use liquid fertilizers to give your plants a light nutrient boost or snack every month or even every two weeks during the growing season. Simply mix a tankful of foliar spray, and spray all your plants at the same time.

Plants can absorb liquid fertilizers through both their roots and through leaf pores. Foliar feeding can supply nutrients when they are lacking or unavailable in the soil, or when roots are stressed. It is especially effective for giving fast growing plants like vegetables an extra boost during the growing season. Compost tea and seaweed extract are two common examples of organic foliar fertilizers.

Some foliar fertilizers such as kelp are rich in micronutrients and growth hormones. These foliar sprays also appear to act as catalysts, increasing nutrient uptake by plants. You can make your own liquid fertilizer by brewing up compost or manure in water.

Applying liquid fertilizers: With flowering and fruiting plants, foliar sprays are most useful during critical periods (such as after transplanting or during fruit set) or periods of drought or extreme temperatures. For leaf crops, some suppliers recommend biweekly spraying.

When using liquid fertilizers, always follow label instructions for proper dilution and application methods. You can use a surfactant, such as coconut oil or a mild soap (1/4 tsp. per gallon of spray), to ensure better coverage of the leaves. Otherwise the spray may bead up on the foliage and you won't get maximum benefit. Measure the surfactant carefully; if you use too much, it may damage plants. A slightly acid spray mixture is most effective, so check your spray's pH. Use small amounts of vinegar to lower pH and baking soda to raise it. Aim for a pH of 6.0 - 6.5.

Any sprayer or mister will work, from hand-trigger units to knapsack sprayers. Set your sprayer to emit as fine a spray as possible. Never use a sprayer that has been used to apply herbicides.

The best times to spray are early morning and early evening, when the liquids will be absorbed most quickly and won't burn foliage. Choose a day when no rain is forecast and temperatures aren't extreme.

Spray until the liquid drips off the leaves. Be sure to concentrate the spray on leaf undersides, where leaf pores are more likely to be open. You can also water in liquid fertilizers around the root zone. A drip irrigation system can carry liquid fertilizers to your plants. Kelp is a better product for this use, as fish emulsion can clog the irrigation emitters.

Growth Enhancers

Growth enhancers are materials that help plants absorb nutrients more effectively from the soil. The most common growth enhancer is kelp, which has been used by farmers for centuries.

Kelp is sold as a dried meal or as an extract of the meal in liquid or powdered form. It is totally safe and provides some 60 trace elements that plants need in very small quantities. It also contains growth-promoting hormones and enzymes. These compounds are still not fully understood, but are involved in improving a plant's growing conditions.

Applying growth enhancers: Follow the directions for spraying liquid fertilizers when applying growth enhancers as a foliar spray.

You can also apply kelp extract or meal directly to the soil; soil application also stimulates soil bacteria. This in turn increases fertility through humus formation, aeration, and moisture retention.

Apply 1 - 2 lb. of kelp meal per 100 square feet of garden each spring. Apply kelp extract once a month for the first four or five months of the growing season. If fresh seaweed is available, rinse it to remove the sea salt and apply it to your garden as a mulch, or compost it. Seaweed decays readily because it contains little cellulose. Furthermore, there's no need to worry about introducing weed seeds with seaweed mulch.

[Rattrap]

Hay hideyoshi;
Sadly its true about not being able to measure the PPM of organic nutes. I used a bat guano during bloom, the recomended strength is 10mls per 1L. When i measure the nute strength with a TDS pen it comes up with a reading of just 180 (my starting water TDS is 20). I'm still trying to find out how to measure the strength of the nutes in my res at any one time. At the moment i'm having to go by the '100% water add back' method, not real efficent to my mind. but its sure better than going over to chem nutes. I believe Pure blend Pro is a semi organic nute (tho don't quote me on it) that can be measured with a TDS or EC meter. As to the taste, i've never used chem nutes so i can't answer but mine sure do taste good!

[Guest]

thanks rattrap, yeah at the moment I'm using some organic hydro nutes for my soil grow called biojuice I think? www.hygrow.net is where you can check em out. Workin very well in soil and a friends gonna be testin them soon in his hydro system so at least by the time I get mine going he should be able to give me a few tips. Also, I'm used to growing outdoors organic so I'm with you on the whole taste thing, chem nutes just dont seem right to me??....

[Rattrap]

someone else who uses bio-juice!
I like bio-juce myself & have been emailing a fellow from hygrow re their product for use in hydro, its a bit hard tho when u can't discuss just what type of plant you're growing! "I'm growing tomato plants" only stretches so far! hehe. here is that email;

hi John,

bio juice is a completely stand alone complete nutrient.

It is however due to the nature of organics to have a fairly low nitrogen level when used with inactive/ inert growing mediums.With this in mind many people choose to use it in conjunction with mineral salt based nutrient to get the fast and large results that they are used to getting with minerals salt nutrients.

this is why we chose to put a flyer and swing tag with the bottles to explain how to use as and additive alongside.

So to answer your question Yes Bio juice can be used on its own but you will not have as fast a rate of growth in inert mediums or as big a yeild.

If you were using it with soil you will have a much better result than normal.

The interesting part is the bit i highlighted in red. I've been doing a fare amount or research here & at other forums regarding organic hydro's & it seems very important to have a 'living' system. ie a system where benifical bacteria can live & thrive, they r needed to break down the organic nutes into a more 'palatible' form for our girls. I'm VERY interested in the bio-buckets system theread by Big Toke here at IC. The benifical bugs take up home in the net pots that the plants grow in!

[Guest]

mmmm, interesting. Dont know much about organics with regard to hydro so thats a nice little bit of info. I agree that I'm currently getting good results in soil with biojuice but it looks like I'm gonna have to do a fair bit more research before I jump into a hydro grow. I'll be lookin out for anything you post in regards to the use of the stuff too rattrap...

[Rattrap]

Hay hideyoshi;
i'll happily keep u posted on my progress with the bio-juice. Here is the full list of nutes & additives i'm using at the moment.
VEG;
Bio-juice grow
fish emulsion
home made worm wee
bio-earth sea acids (Aussie product, Buffers PH, chelates nutes adds valuable enzymes)
Bio-bugs (aussie product, adds benifical bacteria & enzymes)

Bloom;
Bio-juice bloom
Natures Own bat guano bloom
Bio-earth sea acids
bio-bugs.

[Guest]

thanks for that, gives me a good idea of what I'm in for in the near future. Are you in Aus too? if so then at least I'll be able to get the products youve listed! really gives me the sh#ts when I realise half the stuff I read about here probably cant be bought in Aus...

[Rattrap]

Hay hideyoshi;
Yep i'm in Aus, down south. i know what u mean about the lack of products in aus. Re your thoughts of going hydro, have u read Big Tokes thread on bio-buckets? VERY interesting, i'm going to give it a try when my current grow is done.

[Guest]

down south eh? mexicans according to those Sydneysiders. Go the pies!!!

[Guest]

I would also argue that organics is not at its peak expression when used in hydro vs soil or other soiless mediums. I grow on beds of coco coir (which can be used as a hydroponic media) but also add seafood compost as well as perlite. It is important to understand that organic growing is based on the availability of natural nutrients in the planting medium. Liquid fertilizers can be added to supplement the development of the plant, but the plant could very well live with only water. I handwater, but this could be handled via a drip system adjusted to the needs of my growing beds. In such a scenario, one does notice the difference between organic or chem bud. The palate (taste) is much more complex and full-bodied in organic bud where chem bud smells and tastes much more like burnt weeds. The smoke is smoother and cleaner where chem bud just makes you cough your guts out. It's amazing what organics can do to the health of your plants and final product. Suddenly, growing becomes easier and mistakes don't happen often.

keep it green ;)

[Guest]

I have seen drip systems at the hydro store that use coco as a medium, would these be better systems to use with organic nutes as opposed to systems that use say clay pebbles?

[Rattrap]

Big toke advocates the use of lava rocks as the medium. The idea is that benifical bacteria that break down the organic nutes into more plant friendly forms can take up residence in the lava rocks right at the base of your plants.