hoarding of genetics ??why??

[GHETTO_grower]

Ido not understand why some pple would rather keep cuttings and strains to themselves rather than pass them aroudn to other passionate cannaseurs that grow for themselves . first thing we all want this species to flourish and spread , overgrow the nation and all that right? well when growers are hoarding cuttings and rather only give out thier less than desirable stock, then you are perpetuating the spread of inferior genetics and ur also halting the spread of chronic. and the thing that really pulls at my threads is the fact that you are dooming that line of genetics to extinction mutch faster , many great gene lines have been lost because they were "exclusive strains". or maybe it's just bitter growers because of the hard work they had to go through to get some genetics they dotn want to just give it away so easily to another. I mean if were not careful we could hollow out any real substance in the marijuana community, Some of the greatest achievements made for genetics was because of people traveling the world finding genetics from locales to share with them. Then taking them back home to refine and share with the community.


I dunno , toss some opinions out if you like though pple , I just think we should be spreading good strains around any chance you get, were trying to up the species not ourselves

HOARDING GENETICS ENSURES THE FUTURE OF SCHWAGG (and keeping it illegal)

[Guest]

its become a business and about the haves and have not.i think if you just buy the right genetics and grow out plenty of different genetics and do your own crosses their are plenty of elites out their.i grew out a pack of gno3 c99 and i know i missed out on a clone only plant elite was the least i could describer it. plus their are just plain strains that maybe better then elites .take my favorite its kalimist. c99, super silver haze.jack herrer .mango haze.

[flashgee]

ghetto grower...i will gladly take all your elite strains you got and grow them out,just to help you out....wink wink

[Mt Toaker]

Yeah it really is a shame, but I understand they don't want any competition. In "The Cannabible" volume 1 Jason King claims that people pay 10,000 for a single clone of Big Bud

[minds_I]

Hello all,

Perhaps its about security also.

minds_I

[green_thumb...]

yeah i had to start from seed due to bogarders i know many of local growers with very very dank strains but dont want to spread it out,i say fuck bogarders!!! SHARING IS CARING!!! you stingy buttholes...and i mean that in the nicest way possible moderators.

[Greyskull]

just to stir the pot in the other direction....

say you come across a strain that blows away all those that have been held by the hoarders... and they come knockin on the door for once... you just gonna give them the plant?

the recipe for coke is trade secret.... whats wrong with trade secret cannabis?
there is still plenty of options available for growers of all kinds, so whats wrong with "trade secret cannabis"?

[~Spirit~]

It is greed, and to make certain growers feel like they are the masters of the universe by making people go apeshit over a clone they will never release to the public. Oh yeah, because I'm a "man of my word"...please, stop playing the martyr bs. It all started with greed and elitism, plain and simple.
Some of these same people will go on and claim "its all about helping sick people, not about money">>>but, if you want to grow this, you have get out your wallet and pay $$, for not THE CLONE, but SEEDS, from us. You want the clone??..haha fug-off, its just for us worthy growers!!"
After spelling it out its quit obvious, that its essentially a sad group of mental midgets that grow a certain rare PLANT(S), and have found a way to make themselves feel important to themselves, and to the kids of the Internet.
Don't be fooled, and don't kiss any ass waiting for a break...the elitists don't care about you.

[minds_I]

Hello all.

Did I mention this is also a security issue?

I have some SDOG, one of the best in my stable (of three strains) but I do not go around advertising this.

I only grow what I smoke so I do not have a large surplus. I do not sell.

The folks I smoke with think my buds come from a cousin on the coast.

So why should I give up my security to pass around a good strain? Am I to be considered a greedy bastard all for the sake of my own security?

I think not.

minds_I

[catman]

minds_I , Obviously it's understandable that your not passing around genetics because you don't want people to know you grow. NO ONE is going to argue that with you :)

Ghetto grower - Good post man. Not everyone has the Over Grow spirit in their blood =[

[johnipedestran]

The OP is hanging with the wrong people.

one love

peace
jip

[~Spirit~]

Yes minds_I, I did see you mention security issue.
I didn't mention it because I see no problem with THAT reason. But like you said its not a greed issue, its a security issue, which is fine. We're on the same page....I have to lie about my stuff too for security. (it's from my friend's cousin in Baltimore):D
I'm talking about the people that like to hold it over people's heads....pass the "ok" clones around, keep the good ones, the ones most medically viable for themselves...and act like the canna-heroes of the pot boards.

[Knives]

the only reason i can see people not passing clones is because of security.
other then that, its just rude not to share...but instead of complaining..
make a better strain and pass it out freely! then no one will want their cuts lol.
im sure they pass them out though, just not to everybody. the republicans of the pot world

[Greyskull]

I'm talking about the people that like to hold it over people's heads....pass the "ok" clones around, keep the good ones, the ones most medically viable for themselves...and act like the canna-heroes of the pot boards.


thats why I am asking whats wrong with "trade secret"-like cannabis?

if there are so many other good options out there why do the "elite" strains need to be so sought after by personal growers?. Can't you just make your own?

[Natagonnaworrie]

elite clones. the most touchy subjuct....

here's my :2cents:

those that are in it for the $$$ will hoard them, it makes their product more valuable. 99.9% of these people are not even the original creators, so they got it somewhere... they just chose to end the karma train with them. :noway:

others, actually created / breed these beautys. K++ to all of you. :woohoo: Most of these people created something they wanted to share, but if not, they made it, they can decide what to do with it. :joint::joint:

if you absolutly can't get any elites where you are at do yourself a favor, (just my :2cents: i know this is diffucult for some) buy 3 - 4 packs of your favorite beans, find the best females and a bunch of good males. do one grow for seed only (250w - 400w will provide plenty). pop a shitton of beans (100ish) and keep the best female. Thats pretty fucking elite in my book. :nanana:

i will tell you this, there are those that are actively trying to spread the elites across the world in hopes that the shear statistics of such sharing will continue to improve this plant more and more.

[floppyfundanglr]

well i have a couple of really great strains ive made and i try to make as many seeds as possible so i can share them with everyone. right now I have the best lifesaver plant ever. I pollenated about 10% of the plant so i can get some seeds but this one looks like it will also be a major yeilder. When these are done i cant wait to grow and share them. I also have some feminised seeds of my drunk indian ver2 plant i made! cant wait for these to get around!

[Maj.PotHead]

all i can say is document a grow or 2 impress the right person and bam the PM's come hey i seen your grow really like what ya do. would ya be interested in this {thats how it happened with me} now between the 27 strains i created last yr and what ive been gifted. i have around 60+ crosses of grade AAA med quality herb. i have gifted the ppl whom gifted me and other members in the comunity gifted fresh cut clones and seed some even got pollen with the seed gift he he. all i can suggest is grow to impress i seen in your gallery pics of nothern lights and WW ??{White widow or williams wonder } then strains arent to shabby

[KUSHEATER1]

show your skill and be blessed

[mountain kind]

Greyskull knows whats up

Some people don't sit out with their empty hands open they work to make something out of nothing and then use what they've got to get what they want!

All I've got for your outstretched hands is some pocket lint!

[DIH419]

Many people here a very capable and willing, but are you willing to share your addy with a complete stranger. Have you ever had your door kicked in by theives before?

Security is the #1 overwhelming factor for most people on both ends of the trade, gift, or sale. Few are too greedy or selfish not to share with others, but there are a few among us for sure.

I share plenty, but I'm more careful the older I get. I always hated getting mites or thrips from people who gifted me cuttings. I don't blame them, but I like to keep my garden clean .. and sometimes its nice to have a heads up on bugs but most won't give it to you when they don't know what their looking at. I've learned to isolate any incoming from the rest of the population and not risk it anymore.

Give a little .. get a little

[trich-zilla]

I got stuff I wouldn't give out to ANYBODY. If it wasn't so damn good, and so big.. if it wasn't worth a fuck I'd flood the market with it.

cock block

[FoothillsFarmer]

elite clones. the most touchy subjuct....

here's my :2cents:

those that are in it for the $$$ will hoard them, it makes their product more valuable. 99.9% of these people are not even the original creators, so they got it somewhere... they just chose to end the karma train with them. :noway:

others, actually created / breed these beautys. K++ to all of you. :woohoo: Most of these people created something they wanted to share, but if not, they made it, they can decide what to do with it. :joint::joint:

if you absolutly can't get any elites where you are at do yourself a favor, (just my :2cents: i know this is diffucult for some) buy 3 - 4 packs of your favorite beans, find the best females and a bunch of good males. do one grow for seed only (250w - 400w will provide plenty). pop a shitton of beans (100ish) and keep the best female. Thats pretty fucking elite in my book. :nanana:

i will tell you this, there are those that are actively trying to spread the elites across the world in hopes that the shear statistics of such sharing will continue to improve this plant more and more.

well said! +rep

[FoothillsFarmer]

Many people here a very capable and willing, but are you willing to share your addy with a complete stranger. Have you ever had your door kicked in by theives before?

Security is the #1 overwhelming factor for most people on both ends of the trade, gift, or sale. Few are too greedy or selfish not to share with others, but there are a few among us for sure.

I share plenty, but I'm more careful the older I get. I always hated getting mites or thrips from people who gifted me cuttings. I don't blame them, but I like to keep my garden clean .. and sometimes its nice to have a heads up on bugs but most won't give it to you when they don't know what their looking at. I've learned to isolate any incoming from the rest of the population and not risk it anymore.

Give a little .. get a little

There are TOO MANY people in this world that look to "get over on" or take advantage of any form of kindness these days. "Kindness is a Weakness" is what society is teaching the younger generations... and people wonder why I won't have kids...:wallbash:

...Isolation is a MUST without extensive knowledge of the cutting's birthplace and environment therein.

[Bender]

My partner and I have discussed this issue recently. We've got some friends that don't know we grow that are looking for clones. Not passing clones around protects our security. We do have the option of doing a "3rd party" gift (telling them we got them from somebody else) but we're still trying to figure out how we feel about giving clones out.

Why would I personally be hesitant to give my best clones out? We've invested thousands of dollars and countless hours into the design and construction of our grow room. We've risked our personal security by ordering seeds online and we've started the process of phenotype hunting to establish mothers. By the time we have our favorite genetics producing top quality bud for us the total cost, effort, and security risk needs to be worth something to me. If my friends want to come over I will smoke them stupid but for right now the idea of just giving all that away doesn't sit well with me. Ask me when I have a few pounds stockpiled and I may have a change of heart.

As far as gifting clones of mid quality? Absolutely. It'll get the job done for them and if they want to seek out a higher quality bud maybe they can put a little effort in themselves.

Gifting med patients top shelf clones? I'm not a med patient and I am unaware if I know any. I would feel much more generous in this situation though.


Edit: None of my concerns are for commercial or profit purposes.

[JamieShoes]

I agree its a sad state of affairs. I'm a new grower (but not new to MJ) and even though I live in Holland, the only clones I've been able to source are all cash crop clones (PP, WW, K2) and no one is selling anything "special" or at least, not to me.

When I finally get my grow going full strength, it'll only be for me and the missus to consume so yield and harvest time mean less to me than those the cones are aimed at (ie commercial growers). on the plus side I've found to my amazement that a clone is as cheap if not cheaper than a seed... k2 clone = 3 euros (perselected for sex and growth traits).. it really IS a pity that no one is supplying clones for consumer grower around my area... then again .. maybe I'll start growing quality genetics and putting them out myself :P

I guess it really does all boil down to the mean green finance machine - I recently read a post here about clones being sold for 20k A PEICE! (some kush or other)



j

[ChaosCatalunya]

It is mad, someone lost one of the nicest clones we had in London because he hoarded it ... the market there is different and you rarely get any more money for 'amazing genetics' so it was totally pointless on every level.

Someone else is trying to do this right now with a nice new commercial/coinisseur championship contender ... so a friend has renamed it and released it out into the wild because he does not really have any time for this persons ego/stupidity.

If you have done some real work breeding and selecting to produce a great seedline, I am happy to pay whatever for it, if you get lucky with a clone you happen to find and think you can hoard it and somehow strike it rich, you are a MOFO. :2cents:

[Colina]

There is a grower named Pam, she lives in a mountain community in Northern California- she's lived there for 30 years. She has around 1000 neighbors on her dirt road- every one of them grow. Pam has lost touch with many of her non-resident buyers over the years and is uncomfortable seeking out new ones. Instead, she relys on trusted locals to move her grass so she can put food on the table for her and her kids. Come harvest time, competition to move grass is fierce. She knows that the only reason that the local heads come to her for her herb instead of 999 of their other choices is that her grass is superior. Pam knows all of that would come to an end if she was to pass around her clone so she doesn't.
There is a breeder named Jimmy. He understands well Pam's situation and Jimmy knows that to release his breeding stock to folks might take a bite out of his profits, but he does this anyway. Jimmy feels that if he is honest with himself, it is possible that someone else might -for one reason or another- do a better job of things than him. Jimmy feels that sharing his stock provides the best possible opportunity for the lines to continue for future generations to enjoy. He feels that this decision is in the best interest of cannabis and mankind.

Neither Pam nor Jimmy should be faulted for their views or decisions, it's just the way it is man.

[buzzed day]

hello all,just my thoughts.i think some of you should give it a little time here and good things will come.i left o.g. when it shut down and came here.since then i have posted and talked to many good people.i think i've been hear about 3 years or so.this year the people i talk with started to offer some sweet looking stuff to me but i don't have a safe address so i don't do that or order seeds,i go to canada and bring back. what i'm trying to say is,it takes time to become online buddie's and for someone to trust enough to risk there freedom.have a little pations and good things will come.God bless and peace

[smoke1sun]

I think greed is just on of the many reasons why some people keep strains to themselves.
Now i dont have any of these "elite" strains, and its not stopping me from growing. The hard part with us smokers is the fact that we can sometime be very noid. And it would not be wise to offer cuts, or seeds to everyone who signs up on the site. Hell if i got a pm from a new member with every elite out there, and they told me to pick all i want i would most def say thanks but no thanks.

Another reason I think is everyone is a breeder now, and some people dont care to have someone make a buck off of their hard work.

One thing that happend to me on another site. I had some Tom Hill beans, and a 2 growers on the site. One still there one disappeared, told me they would help me back up my Deep chunk, PTK, Deep Skunk9, tarantula. They both documented grows, posted pics very active people. And this has been over a year now, and guess what. Nothing nada, stop answering PMs ignored me in post. So i lost some great genetics trying to share and back up.
Good thing Mr. Hill hit me back with some of the genes but not the tarantula or ds9.
Trusting someone on the internet is a very tricky thing. Very hit or miss.

We can overgrow the world without elites, plenty of seeds out there, plenty of crosses to make.
Have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

[DIH419]

There are TOO MANY people in this world that look to "get over on" or take advantage of any form of kindness these days. "Kindness is a Weakness" is what society is teaching the younger generations... and people wonder why I won't have kids...:wallbash:

...Isolation is a MUST without extensive knowledge of the cutting's birthplace and environment therein.That's too bad you think this of all people .. this must include yourself too huh?

Speak for yourself .. I prefer to be as kind as often as I can .. because this is what I can live with for myself.

"and people wonder why I won't have kids..."This is exactly why I hope to have kids one day, in spite of all the weakness!

[flashgee]

the only reason i can see people not passing clones is because of security.
other then that, its just rude not to share...but instead of complaining..
make a better strain and pass it out freely! then no one will want their cuts lol.
im sure they pass them out though, just not to everybody. the republicans of the pot world

nobody needs to know where you live for you to pass out your good seed or clones genetics,the reciver is the only one that need to give out there address.then you post them out to them,the reciver is risking his secuity not the person giving the plant/seed.

[buzzed day]

so the hair that might get into the package or a finger print on it or the post mark thats on it and if someone was a cop boom.yes i think people should share but there is alot of danger out there and in here.every computer is monitored by someone,evern if it's just your provider who may or may not tell.peace

[Greyskull]

There is a grower named Pam, she lives in a mountain community in Northern California- she's lived there for 30 years. She has around 1000 neighbors on her dirt road- every one of them grow. Pam has lost touch with many of her non-resident buyers over the years and is uncomfortable seeking out new ones. Instead, she relys on trusted locals to move her grass so she can put food on the table for her and her kids. Come harvest time, competition to move grass is fierce. She knows that the only reason that the local heads come to her for her herb instead of 999 of their other choices is that her grass is superior. Pam knows all of that would come to an end if she was to pass around her clone so she doesn't.
There is a breeder named Jimmy. He understands well Pam's situation and Jimmy knows that to release his breeding stock to folks might take a bite out of his profits, but he does this anyway. Jimmy feels that if he is honest with himself, it is possible that someone else might -for one reason or another- do a better job of things than him. Jimmy feels that sharing his stock provides the best possible opportunity for the lines to continue for future generations to enjoy. He feels that this decision is in the best interest of cannabis and mankind.

Neither Pam nor Jimmy should be faulted for their views or decisions, it's just the way it is man.

great post - solid presentation

i respect pam

[mountain kind]

Pam sounds like my mom

[Mr. Stinky]

as long as the good stuff pam has stays around and doesnt get lost, im all for it... no reason to extinct the best cut...

[JamieShoes]

Pam lives in a place with a seasonal harvest - fair play :-)

[Greyskull]

Pam lives in a place with a seasonal harvest - fair play :-)

nor cal has a big outdoor season, yes. but when its not outdoor season, its indoor season. harvest time is all the time.

guess you are not persoanlly familiar with the area....

[JamieShoes]

not at all familiar mate :-) I live in NL and have never visited the states, the scene is a little different I'm sure... and there's goes Pams "when harvest time comes" arguement, shame it was quite solid until just then ;-)

[cocktail frank]

it's favor for a favor.
put in your work and find something bomb from seedstock.
most people wont just give you elite shit if you got nothing to share.
why would i lend you a dollar to only get a nickel in return?
find something bomb and practice what u preach!
it's always the dudes who are worried about getting something for themselves that dont get shit.
unless your a card carrier w/ legal options to buy clones, you have to do your own work.
make a name for yourself as a person and a grower.
good karma on your behalf is always followed by good karma from others.
dont ever expect anything for nothing.

[JamieShoes]

I fully intend to put in the work and I fully intend to give all my friends who're currently growing wank genetics freebees, thats so far away for me right now tho, I just broke my first seed, not sure if you guru types can remember that far back when you still had it all to come ;-)

and I couldnt agree more, Frank - "you get fuck all for fuck all" as my old mam used to say - she was a foul mouthed old girl mind you :D


EDIT - I said "wank" genetics there, but actually I'm in no place to know what the hell I'm talking about - I'm sure when grown properly PP WW and K2 are all exceptional smokes, its a shame the lads I know are in the game for a quick turn around - which really was my original point, it's a shame none of them care enough to have looked into stocking their own mothers from proven selected genetics

EDIT #2 - that's a huge point about this community here actually and the reason I like it so much - you guys are in this for reasons outside of "$". people here care about producing a quality end product - I've read your grows Frank - they impress the shit out of me, people like you showing the rest of us the way to get more out of our favourite plant - its inspirational, mate, really. after a 20 year love affair with MJ, I feel like I'm entering a whole new world of possibilities, I'm genuinely excited, as much about the commercial scene (from a buyers perspective) here in holland is a bit crap sometimes - think overfed, taken too soon, never cured, fast dried...that said there is treasure to be found and I'm lucky I can find it... I'll be even luckier if I get this grow finished ;-)

[GET MO]

I could care less. Theres so many genetics out there that it doesnt matter if billy wont give up his super-duper-digity-gooey-crystaly-blueberry bomb, Ill just go find some super-duper-digity-gooey-crystaly-blackberry bomb.

[cocktail frank]

remember this.
every elite was some1's bagseed.
and ill be perfectly honest,
some of the best strains i've run were from my own crosses.
very few elites are as good as stated.

[JamieShoes]

"every elite was some1's bagseed" - truth :-)

[Greyskull]

not at all familiar mate :-) I live in NL and have never visited the states, the scene is a little different I'm sure... and there's goes Pams "when harvest time comes" arguement, shame it was quite solid until just then ;-)

how is that any different? she's trying to feed her kids with the one thing she can that no one else has.
so why she is supposed to share it? that will cut into her ability to feed her kids. what is the reasoning behind having pam sharing her secret recipe - how is it good for pam? Whats pam get in return?

[JamieShoes]

not really sure. I'm thinking if Pam continues to produce better herb than anyone else her market share wont be affected. the reality of having a continuing harvest make any "claims" of seasonally fierce competition redundant - sorry mate, not trying to pick a bone, i'm a financial analyst not a grower (though I want to be) :-)

thats not to say year round competion isnt fierce in this market place - it is in holland - I'm simply commenting on "Pams" personal scenario, wishing I hadnt now though ;-)


edit - incidentally - "Pam" could make a killing in the clones market, possibly exceeding her current cash crop and already has a solid reputation...


i'll get me coat ..

[guest123]

anyone think perhaps pam maybe a better grower , she knows better how to process and store her product and takes personal pride in her work .. its possible some neighbours grow the same stuff , ,but just dont know how to prepare it ..
ive had herb from the same patch of dirt that folks wouldnt believe was the same as 2 different guys prepared and stored it ...
i never hoard the seeds i have ,, regularly give them away to locals here to hopefully improve the herb they grow ,, but alas their production methods leave so much to be desired the good seed pretty much goes to waste ..
im with the other grower in the scenario ,,
i dont believe hoarding genetics does anyone any good ...

[JamieShoes]

quick note to add, whilst I think if growers choose to share their labours for free its a truely wonderful thing, I certainly not suggesting that everything should be handed out to idiots like me to take home and kill with one over feeding... I was thinking more along the lines of those who already sell clones to market, making something "else" available :-)

[Greyskull]

i hear you man i am just wanting to make sure we look at EVERYTHING on both sides.

must say though if the market area is always harvesting & always has something to move Pam had better have something better than the rest each and everytime if she's banking on it to provide a means of living.

whenever i have seen threads like these previously i've see a bunch of whining and bitching and complaining about hoarding and how unfair it is all the "medically benificial" cuts are kept on lock down away from patients. that is so far from the truth.

if you cannot get coca cola you can still get pepsi or shasta or rc or dr pepper... and all those will all quench your thirst.

[JamieShoes]

cool beans mate - I like healthy discussions, just don't want to make an ass of myself just yet... I got plenty of time for that ;-)

[JamieShoes]

I want to add as well (cuz I sound like a f*ckin primadonna) the clones I CAN buy I'm extremely grateful for (those are WW, PP and K2) - I don't think these are poor quality, far from it, theyre the backbone of a lot of other things - what I AM having a little whinge about is that the growers I know personally (and theyre great guys all friends) are not in it for the love... they buy 50 x "whatever you got" throw a tonne of light n food at it and 8 weeks later give you a call "hey man.." - if they knew half of what went on within these forums... it's my new mission to convert them to knowledge over yeild ...

I'm actually blessed out of my arse to have these options open to me, I know it ;-)

[Maj.PotHead]

right on JS spread the power
knowledge is power, power is knowledge

ive been gifted by some of the best closet growers in the world and have gifted many members here and not on this board. heck last yr and this yr some of what i created has gone to a indian reservation and they where stoked last yr this yr will blow thier minds lol :).

last yr was a GDP x Evenflow cross i call Ole Man River
this yr they got some Kaua'i Kush F3's

evenflow - abussive og kush x whitemustang
Whitemustang - chem dog x west coast dog BX3
Kaua'i Kush - abussive og kush x maui waui

[stihgnobevoli]

this is why i never got into the whole buying and selling seeds. weed is free, it grows everywhere. you buy some weed and theres seeds in it? rejoice, for now you have a never ending supply of weed. maybe its mediocre or bad. you have a bunch of seeds of unknown origin. just start growing and crossing and the next thing you know you have some "elite" lol striain of weed.


i think of weed as people. some are good some are bad, some are terrible some are great. you wont find out unless you get out there and investigate for yourself. i wouldnt take someone elses word on who i should have as my friends, unless its the word of one of my current friends. its the same with weed. sure everyone might think og kush is the best shit on earth. but i may happen to think this unknown bagseed i call sasha is better. the point is. to paraphrase charlie murphy.

...the weed is for everybody...

[swampdank]

People want to have something different than the norm. But once the cut gets out, it's time to find another one to keep around. I feel ya though man. I used to wonder if I was eve going to try an elite. Now I am up to my ears in em, and I still like my F13 better.

I think the quality of seeds period has dropped. Try to get the best genetics you can. If you find a special pheno, with the right exposure and marketing, you can call it elite too.

[Brother Bear]

i just met with a friend tonight
sent 3 cuts home with him :rasta:
pre 98 bubba K

of course i talked with him for two years now
i have watched his grows, he has watched mine

if you don't already get it, you probably never will
best of luck to those that need it
:smoweed:

[guest123]

>>>>>this is why i never got into the whole buying and selling seeds. weed is free, it grows everywhere. you buy some weed and theres seeds in it? rejoice, for now you have a never ending supply of weed. maybe its mediocre or bad. you have a bunch of seeds of unknown origin. just start growing and crossing and the next thing you know you have some "elite" lol striain of weed.


i think of weed as people. some are good some are bad, some are terrible some are great. you wont find out unless you get out there and investigate for yourself. i wouldnt take someone elses word on who i should have as my friends, unless its the word of one of my current friends. its the same with weed. sure everyone might think og kush is the best shit on earth. but i may happen to think this unknown bagseed i call sasha is better. the point is. to paraphrase charlie murphy.

...the weed is for everybody...>>>>>>>>


if it were as easy as that no one would bother breeding any seeds , just grab what u get along the way ..
im not sure if i wouldnt rather buying something like one does to guarentee something better ..
ive had a lot of mongrel dogs , some good , some bad ,, the best is to b e able to choose what one likes in a particular breed , whether it be rottweiler for a guard dog situation , or a Labrador for a family dog ..
im sure thats the goal of most cannabis breeders ,, to try and take the guess work out of it for the consumer and present something for every situation and taste ...

[junior_grower]

I like many have received and gifted many strains. How well I have been on another site for 5 years meet some good people along the way and it happens. With 20 strains on hand between my self and two other growers I have plenty of options to give, but until I can trust someone 110% it will never happen.

[Rudedewd]

A couple of points. One, most people that I know share genetics with friends which is a very good thing but do notice that I said share with friends, not strangers from some web site. Many people looking for clones are basically begging for handouts, I say that because they are not friends with the clone holder, it's just like a stranger on the street begging you for money except there does involve a security risk. These people are looking to take advantage of somebody else's work without being willing to do the work themselves. It's a matter of entitlement, somehow because they grow weed they think that they are entitled to the best weed out there without taking the time and effort to find their own elite genetics or make their own seed. It's really laughable to me because when I started growing there were no seed banks and no internet, the seeds that we used were all from bagseed. Now very high quality genetics are available to everyone and people still complain that they can't aquire everything and for free no less. Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% in favor of sharing genetics with friends but take the time to actually make friends before you ask, anything else is just begging. Making friends doesn't happen overnight so in the meantime reach into your pockets (like I had to), buy yourself some good seeds and take the time to find the keepers or make new and exciting crosses and then you'll have something to share in return and also you will have something that you can take pride in. Anybody can grow great pot if they are using elite cuts so there is no pride in that unless it is your own cut. What we need is for people to grow the seeds and find more and more keepers, if everybody grows from cuts there will be genetic bottlenecking. If you say you can't afford good seeds, first off that is bullshit because I've bought great seeds for as little as $20 a pack. Subcool's Fiesta Mix ran me that and I ended up with mom's of both Conquistador and Astroboy. If you are too cheap to buy seeds (or don't have a safe addy) then start some bagseed, some of the best cuts that people lust for came from bagseed so don't say you can't get exceptional results. As far as a safe addy goes, I didn't have one but I wasn't about to beg genetics from strangers on the internet so I used my own address. The way I thought about it was no balls, no glory, if you want to get results risks must be taken. As far as getting genetics from people from here and other sites if you really take the time to make friends then all things are possible. I had to take some time off from growing so I left here for awhile but as soon as I came back I recieved pms from people offering great genetics to me, seeing how I still have my bean collection I did not need to take anyone up on their offers but just the same it was very much appreciated. Just give it time and don't act like you are entitled to anything because bottom line is that you're not, if you act like you are taint nobody going to give you shit at least I know that I won't. Grow the seed, find your own keepers and honestly make friends (not make friends to take advantage of what they have) and I am sure that good things will eventually come to you.

[Chili_berkster]

Just a thought... If you have some nice strains and you share them, sometimes you can get them back if you lose them. But if you never shared them, you may not get them back. Folks sometimes like to help out helpful individuals. If someone does you a solid, it would behoove you to pay it forward. Karma has a way of leveling the playing field.

[JamieShoes]

loads of good discussion in here, loving it. It seems we're drawing out 2 seperate issues here, or maybe 3 which is cool.

One, the issue of making genetics available to friends. Two, the availibility of genetics to a buying market. and lastly, the issue of lazy buggers trying to beg off other peoples hard graft on the internet...

Fair play to anyone who's naughty enough to get away with point 3 (toerags!), but back to issues 1 and 2.

For me personally I'm so close to the beginning of my grow journey that I almost haven't even have started (I have my first one week old WW seedling growing behind me right now, bless her) - However, I'm an idealist. I'm not one of these overly postive types, infact quite the opposite, but in an IDEAL world I would love to get myself to a point whereby I could supply my friends with (and I don't say better genetics) more variety of genetics. If/when that time comes, I won't sell a single living thing for money, but if any of my friends (who're already growers) were to sell or pass on for free, I would be over the moon at being able to put something back...

The other side of me is much more realistic - as I mention somewhere above - by trade I'm a finance analyst (or was, I decided its not actually for me) I understand the process of stimulating demand by witholding product from the market. I also understand that colonel sanders isn't giving up his secret recipe to the public anytime soon. On the other hand, the biggest players in any global market are those that franchise (right colonel?).


In summary then (lmao) I can see both sides of the "coin" as it were - I just "wished" the world was a different place, one that allowed us to be more concerned with a greater good. :-)


edit - "Pam", if you're ever reading this, I wish you all the luck there is to offer

[cocktail frank]

. If someone does you a solid, it would behoove you to pay it forward. Karma has a way of leveling the playing field.

that bout sums it all up right there.

[cellardweller]

done, done, and done.

[swampdank]

that bout sums it all up right there.


Agreed. It is funny how karma has a way of tossing you little blessings for being kind

[ghetto gardner]

It all boils down to security issues, having your garden infested from a "gifted" clone and people not wanting to share, come on people its a dang weed. I say share the weath, for those who are greedy, 1 day you might find yourself needy, my:2cents:

GG

[VenturaHwy]

Its one thing to share a commercial clone you got in the last few years, a thousand people already have it or could make a trip to cali to acquire it. Or a plant grown from commercial seed stock that everyone can get...

Its something else to share a clone you have kept alive for 24 years through good and bad times, a clone you may consider to be one of the best anywhere. Personally I would love to patent the plant I have some day, I consider it that good. I have inbred it 13 times trying to save the genetics forever... Some of you would expect the owner of best race horse in the world to just "share" the genes of that horse with the every one else, but I certainly wouldn't.

In this world it comes down to who you know, if you know the right person you may get a so called elite, but don't expect an ancient clone that predates almost all of the elites and commercial seed strains, never produces a hermie and is some of the best weed there is... not my opinion but others for the last 24 years.... unless you are a very close friend of the person that has that clone. Even then you may pass it out to a thousand people when the owner doesn't want it spread around... Some clones are priceless, others are given out freely...

[stihgnobevoli]

are you guys missing something? or am i missing something? its a clone. which means not the original plant. who cares. its like giving or selling seeds. whats the point of not sharing it even if you never lose it and have it till you die. i dont get it. why wouldnt you want other people to have it and help refine. its like if you had a whole forest to work with and you could seed and sow to your hearts content thousands of strains. but instead you decided to work in a 5x5 foot plot with 2 plants at a time. why would you want to do all that extra work when you culd let em wild and have the wind and time do your work then you just come in and pick the best thats still growing. i understand having your elite clone and all that you spent x y z hours on. but even still its not like you dont still have your plant at the end of the day. keeping it for yourself is just really ego.

[HypnotiQ]

a little birdie told me you can find the colonel sanders recipe online

[GHETTO_grower]

Bottom line I think either share it or sell it at a price to pple that are passionate about the community and the strengthening the genepool on a larger scale,
if we all Hide our prized possesions in our basements like some kind of smeegle we will destroy the species integrity ourselves.


I am amazed at the discussions this thread has created, I really am greatefull at how many have put your two cents into this.
More or less I'm just happy having pple talking about this more openly, thank you all so much again,cheers !!!!!

:joint:

[Snagglepuss]

If you can't get some elite genetics,Your not looking in the right place.Lots of breeders are making s1 and crosses of many of the most sought after ,offering them for sale,and also giving them away for free.Then theirs friendly people and the unspoken cosmic karma,that surrounds the community.Were not doing rocket science here.....

[guest123]

I would like to thank all the folks who basically came in and at least tried to spell it out what the deal is. I realize that to try and invoke guilt and talk about the betterment of the community bla share the wealth bla to get you to release your prized clones is all a bunch of BS and pathetic. I realize now that I have but one thing to do. I will go out and do my own damn work, and find a head ripping clone to bring back to the table. I know that THIS is what's TRULY in the very best interest of the community. That's the bottom line. Until I do that, to complain, would be like some damn fool who bitches about the government, but doesn't vote. Many thanks.

[GHETTO_grower]

"I realize that to try and invoke guilt and talk about the betterment of the community bla share the wealth bla to get you to release your prized clones is all a bunch of BS and pathetic. I realize now that I have but one thing to do. I will go out and do my own damn work, and find a head ripping clone to bring back to the table. I know that THIS is what's TRULY in the very best interest of the community"

I dunno how to find a head ripping clone other than pple that decide to share them with the community either for free or sale, I have no access to some fancy medical marijuana compassion group or anything, they don't exist where I am . I mean unless u plan to go to countries around the world and start collecting landraces I dunno how to bring fresh genetics to the table, except when it's either from friends giving or selling or vendors what I'm talking about is pple not giving out strains period.

and when you bring that clone to the table will you just show it now and then to rub in their faces or sell them some cuttings, maybe a close friend that grows gets one, Only other way to create new things as you said is say making your own crossing or distributing great genetics, Ive done a couple crosses and their great to grow. I usually like to trade strains one type for another and I give out my custom crosses all the time GLADLY as well as any top notch clone that I got of someone else.

how would you get top notch clones in particular if no one that had em gave em out or sold em and you had no compassion center to get one?
unless you live in an area in the world with potent landraces available U'd be kind of stuck buying form vendors(or bagseed) and start up , all ill say is I've given 1000000% percent back to MY local community than what its given to me

[Rudedewd]

The best and only way to find top notch clones is to grow out lots of seeds to find that Holy Grail. There is too much emphasis on clones, they all started from seed at one point and someone took the time and trouble to find the keeperz. The more people who start seeds looking for keeperz the mo better as if everyone just grew the same old clones there would be a bottlenecking of diversity. When you grow out seeds to find a clone all the reasons that you keep a cut is up to you, not someone else. With the amazing amount of quality seeds available today I think it's a bit silly for people to spend so much time worrying about aquiring cuts when the whole world is in the palm of your hands. When I started growing there were no seedbanks, you kept whatever seeds you could find from the best weed that came your way and you grew them out, maybe you were lucky enough to know other growers to hook you up but that was a rare thing as there was no internet and no way to really interact with other growers. Once the seedbanks opened it was a brave new world filled with nothing but possibilities and it still is. Don't worry about who has what or what's in another grower's garden, get some quality beans and grow your own keeperz, that's what it's all about and that is how to contribute to the canna-society. Clones are cool but to me there is nothing more exciting than growing from seed especially if you know the genetics are high quality. Isn't the motto of this site "it all starts from a seed?"

[JamieShoes]

well I just confirmed an order for some "cheeseberry haze" beans - its blueberry cheese crossed x lady cane (ssh/G13) maybe I'll find something in there to share - the parenting sounds like I could gt some very different plants from this bag...


wish me luck :-)

[badugi]

Time2Unite once had an awesome thread that, in a single original post, answered this question.

For those of you who missed it, I'll quickly summarize: it will come when you're worthy, or lucky. For those of you who do not yet have the "luck" part, you must rely on "worth" and ask yourself... "what am I bringing to the table?", not "why can't I have the best [when I've put no work in myself]?"

There are also plenty of top-notch genetics available from seed. Don't be lazy. If you're new to the game, work hard, put your time in, and you'll find all the elites available to you one day.

[GHETTO_grower]

The best and only way to find top notch clones is to grow out lots of seeds to find that Holy Grail. There is too much emphasis on clones, they all started from seed at one point and someone took the time and trouble to find the keeperz. The more people who start seeds looking for keeperz the mo better as if everyone just grew the same old clones there would be a bottlenecking of diversity. When you grow out seeds to find a clone all the reasons that you keep a cut is up to you, not someone else. With the amazing amount of quality seeds available today I think it's a bit silly for people to spend so much time worrying about aquiring cuts when the whole world is in the palm of your hands. When I started growing there were no seedbanks, you kept whatever seeds you could find from the best weed that came your way and you grew them out, maybe you were lucky enough to know other growers to hook you up but that was a rare thing as there was no internet and no way to really interact with other growers. Once the seedbanks opened it was a brave new world filled with nothing but possibilities and it still is. Don't worry about who has what or what's in another grower's garden, get some quality beans and grow your own keeperz, that's what it's all about and that is how to contribute to the canna-society. Clones are cool but to me there is nothing more exciting than growing from seed especially if you know the genetics are high quality. Isn't the motto of this site "it all starts from a seed?"
My favourite is getting seeds from nearest vender(ontario seedbank) and crossing them with local favourites that I can get from clone .
recently we smoked a skunk hash crossed with tutti fruity that only happened because ofa herming tutti , it made for some amazing smoke and right now I have 3 custom strains in the works 1. dino rhino aka white rhino cross with blue dynomite(havnt test flowered yet) 2 and 3 is blue x ....
I accidently mixed the seeds together but thier gonna be either dynomite crossed with willies wonder and at least one or two were crossed dynomite and MANGO < its true about working hard to get rep to get those genetics but if your someone with cash to throw around you can just buy top notch genetics without doing jack shit really for the community ......It's so hard to describe what I've meant to say in this thread and usualy I wind up sounding like im very black and white on the issue . I guess all we can do is just keep growing and HELP one another out any way we can in a safe manner,

for the record to I have 90% of my stock given to me out of favours and what not , only reason I made the thread was because of what I've read ON online not my own endevours,
at times I feel the community is a vase that was shatterd
we need to glue it back together as a group but if some of us dont hold our end the whole thing falls apart before it can set......

[VenturaHwy]

Most of the so called elites are available down in cali and a lot of states that have medical cannabis. So if these are what you just have to have they will come your way it just takes time. You guys that live down in cali could you list what is available at the dispensaries down there, probably all of the OG's and most every thing else. And like someone said there are a lot of s1's being made so its just a matter of time...

[Cat Jockey]

Sorry for dredging up a thread, but this issue will continue to get hotter as MMJ blows up in places like Colorado.

I am a fuggin' stoner. However, MJ is not some magical herb that is going to cure the world's problems. It is a drug. Period. A mood altering chemical. It is also illegal, whether your state has MMJ laws or not. This ain't 1969 and all that hippy free love share everything is Utopia that does not and never will exist.

I think it is good that elite clones are hard to get a hold of. Imagine if they weren't? What would be the incentive for breeders? For risk taking commercial ops that provide enough MJ so that it continues to be abundant and the general public becomes desensitized and it continues to become more decriminalized. For people like the dude that owns this site? Where would you buy seeds if people cannot make a profit to offset their risk of going to jail?

This is a business and I think people are a bit silly, security and profit, if they go around making sure they can pass around as much genetics as possible.

Further, who has what? I have an OG Kush. Which cut? Who knows? Pretty soon, there will be twice as many cuts of this strain or that one. A little free love with MJ and nobody knows what they have. How many transactions can happen before information gets muddled? A clone gets passed to person a, then b, then c, then d, ..., then z, then a1, then b1, etc.

I have a plant in my garden that I really don't know what the hell it is, its true genetic background, etc. What it is was lost through too many stoned exchanges.

You think information is going to stay accurate?

This is a business for most people. Most people buy their weed, they don't grow it. Most people who buy weed would continue to do so even if they could grow it legally.

The more clones get passed around, the less incentive for breeders to take their risks, the less incentive for commercials, etc. People rip on the business end of things, but without them, we in North America would be smoking shit weed grown by true fuggin' criminals south of the border, the kind that will kill people - and there would be no elite clones for 21st hippies to hand out with their patchouli.

Those of us that enjoy good weed and good genetics have those evil, greedy commercials and cannabusiness folks to thank.

Then there would follow endless closet fuckings of this one plant to that one plant to create that elite clone. How many years free love clone passing would it take before unhealthy crosses, improper breeding, etc., screw some things up?

Greed is a ridiculous word to use when discussing people making money to offset the legal risks they take. Do you work for free? How do you survive if you do? Why don't we start calling all of the elite breeders a bunch 'o greedy f'ers for not giving away their seeds? For not cloning their parent plants and passing them around? Those guys are a bunch of aholes, right? They are the ultimate hoarders.

Good for them and good for you they are.

Do I SHARE? Hell no. Do I EXCHANGE? You bet your pot smokin' ass I do. But I am careful with whom and for what.

This is a drug.
This is a business.
This can land your ass in jail.
Human nature is what it is.

None of that will change.

Passing elite clones around to every Tom, Dick and Harry will do nothing but dilute known information, turn the American gene scene into a muddled joke and impact future breeding efforts. Everything will be called OG Kush, or the original this or that.

Hoard that shit and keep it tight. And don't feel guilty about it.

[magiccannabus]

I share stuff that can't be identified as mine. I have a rare trifoliate I haven't given to anyone, because I'm probably the only person on the globe that has a trifoliate of this strain. It would be too easy to link my plants to their plants if something went wrong. Plus there is the "tell no one" rule. In Cali, I'd probably feel safe, but sure as hell not in Iowa!

[somebody041]

i'm happy to share with the right people. i am friends with a close knit group of growers. some of us are willing to do whatever it takes to get that special clone. a couple of us have been known to drive 6 hours to a club that has something we've heard really good things about. keep in mind the reason we know about the special clone is because of the time we spend online researching them. then some of my lazier grower friends hear about it and want to grow it out to sell it, and expect it for free. i'm happy to share some strains with them but the really special ones will only go to those that contribute to helping obtain them. i hate it when people come to me with their hand out expecting something when a few months ago i offered them the chance to help me get it. instead, they chose to sit on their ass and wait for me to do all of the hard work.

but hey maybe i'm greedy...

[KnuckleHedd]

It's simple business, man. I'm the only one in my area with Rez' Apollo 11...it's the most popular strain I have. I'm not about to change the situation. Do I feel like a schmuck sometimes? Sure! But I'm the only schmuck with A11.

[Owl Mirror]

Hello all.
Did I mention this is also a security issue?
I have some SDOG, one of the best in my stable (of three strains) but I do not go around advertising this.
I only grow what I smoke so I do not have a large surplus. I do not sell.
The folks I smoke with think my buds come from a cousin on the coast.
So why should I give up my security to pass around a good strain? Am I to be considered a greedy bastard all for the sake of my own security?
I think not.
minds_I

Doesn't your cousin on the coast give you a clone once in a while too ?