...what would be some good advice here?

[Gypsy Nirvana]

....A friend of mine recently contacted me with a problem he was having concerning a organic hydro set up:quote...

For environmental reasons, I am trying to convert to
hydro-organic fertilizers, and I've been
experimenting with Bio-Bizz, which I remember to be a
standard in Dutch hydroponics.

I am having a problem with PH stability- we water
with 5.0 and, by the next day, it's up to 7.0 or
higher. Do you know how to deal with this? The
chemical fertilizers I've used in the past don't
fluctuate like that.

I'm tempted at this point to give up on Bio-Bizz and
try a different organic fert. that is more soluble
and stable. Any recommendations?

.....question: how could you help this person?....let's hear it....

*the grower with the right/best solution will win a pack of Deep Chunk seeds by Tom Hill..

[zeppelindood]

wow.. heads up ehh FJ....

[Dr. D]

Hey Gypsy Farmer is right about lettin Bio-biz sit it goes stagnant and it reeks its not a feed u can put in a rez it does state on the bottle to be used as its diluted into water. I get ph soaring up in soil with it too...Canna have just brought out an organic hydro feed which is fully certified organic and they say is the only true organic hydro feeds with these certifications, they say its the shit but dont they all...im gonna be trying them out soon myself soon...i think its the OMRI and EKO certifications which are the world standard in organics Bio-bizz also have these certs but they are not hydro feed only the Rootjuice and the Top Max bloom stimulator. Bio bizz hav just joined up with GHE and i think they are working on gettin organic hydro nutes made but not yet, id go for the Canna they also do a bloom stimulator too i think it will be a good line up to try out...hope this is of help...peace :canabis:

[JohnBudd]

Pure Blend Pro or Advanced Nutrients have great Ph buffereing, and ph does not flucuate greatly. With some nutrients a 24 hour settling period is needed, as sometimes Ph shoots through the roof, only to settle back down within 24 hours. In 3 part/2 part nutrients it is semi-critical how you mix nutes into res. Loading "B" on top of "A" or vise versa can sometimes cause reactions not wanted or needed. Read and understand your manufacturer's info....search the forums as many long-time growers have played and tweeked and dialed-in just this thing.......which nutrients....how much....and in what order.
IMVHO Pure Blend Pro/Advanced Nutrients set the standards in Organic Hydro.....try using either of these, and I think your Ph troubles are over.

[Dr. D]

Johnbud which of the AN line is organic? iv only seen the organic tea they do and i dont think thats certified organic also iv read that the pure blend is not totally organic...correct me if im wrong..peace

[JohnBudd]

Certified, non-certified, there is and continues to be debate on PureBlendPro Organics......I don't know...but the stuff works well. Here is the AdvancedNutrients Organic line(additives?), never used them, but most if not all of there products are excellent/pricey.
Home » Nutrients & Growth Enhancers » Advanced Nutrients


"Advanced Nutrients" Organic Combo pack - 1 liter.


Advanced Nutrients All Organic combo pack.


The pack includes:
Iguana Juice Grow 1 liter
Iguana Juice Bloom 1 liter
Organic B 1 liter
Mother Earth Tea Bloom 1 liter

[Dr. D]

TK i used the Top Max in my bubbler on my first go at hydro and i had no probs with any scum on the surface it worked great, iv only heard of and seen the scum with the grow and bloom specailly the grow, but the Top Max is hydro, coco or soil...peace

[Guest]

Yes rid yourself of the Bio Bizz. I will assume that your friend is using DWC, but correct me if this is not true. I am not a fan of DWC but have worked with them a number of times. If your friend is willing to spend the $ have him go with Advanced Nutes, but Pure Blend Pro with some supplements works wonders also. I have never had PH issues with either of them. First off when changing the rez, make sure that you let the change of water and nutes sit for at least 48 hours. Next, watch your rez temps! 72 to 75 degrees Fah (22 to 24 degrees Cel) is where you want them to stay. Finally, keep you rez temps in line! If the problem still is present, he will need to run his water thru an RO filter and follow the steps above. Good luck

bundesliga

[Guest]

I use Bio Bizz Top Max as a bloom booster with my other nute regime. The Top Max smells like rotten meat or roadkill but it is ground up fish, bone meal, etc....which is going to smell. If you leave it sit overnight it will get a killer nasty scum coating on the surface and smell to high heaven.

I also like to add my directly to the tank, which is against conventional wisdom, when I add. I do not check my ph either which also flies in the face of most conventional ways of thinking.

I do not use any of their other nutes so I do not know. I do know that the smell has led to the discovery of at least one growers setup on here.

Tex

[Guest]

Move to soil

[Sleepy]

Hi,
i would suggest to this person to check out BigTokes BioBucket thread-beneficial bacteria...(organic-right?) according to BigToke, its very hassle -free, and it "buffers" the Ph.
or try SubCulture by GH(Mycorhizzae)... sounds like a solution both ways...

[Guest]

HEY there gypsy ...i use the bio bizz line up also..i think the problem is that biobizz is formulated for soil.. id see if your friend minds switching to a soil less mix..the ph goes up because it doesent include stabilizers as hydro nutrients do..and yes using bio bizz in a recirculating system is asking for trouble ..it does go bad quickly if not used the same day bacteria love the sugars in the mixes..the top max is a dutch sugar beet extract and is killer stuff..mycorrhizal solutions may also help as stated above ..the bio bizz is really feeding the soil not the plant as in hydro applications.. bacteria need to break down the sugars for optimum use of there products... so i suggest using a soil less mix like pro mix or biobizz light mix..

take care
greenfriend

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Thank you all for your impetus/input....my friend is considering using enzymatic additives......Do any of you have experience with these?.....if so can you tell us about your experiences?.....Whats good and what is not?


'So, about water additives: There are various products on the market like Hygrozyme, Nitrozyme, Guardian Angel, Hydroguard, etc. that are, apparently, enzymatic treatments that eat rotten organic matter out of rockwool and other media, making the whole root environment much healthier.



The problem is that they don’t list ingredients or, if they do, they vary from product to product. On top of that, the price varies widely, with Hygrozyme being the most expensive at $100 a gallon. It better be good for that price!



So I want to know this: Do these products really make a difference and is one better than the other? Is there a certain ingredient or ingredients that I should look for? '

*the most helpfull grower on this thread will recieve the Deep Chunk seeds....

[Guest]

Hello ..i use the hygrozyme my self its great stuff..there are several products on the market which use enzymes to break down decaying roots; undigested nutrients and plant waste...the hydro guard is a bacillus bacteria based mixture which i have also used with some succsess...the formulas of the enzymatic solutions is allways top secret so they say ..they never list the ingrediants on the lables...there are many diffrent strains of root protecting fungus and bacteria...trichoderma...bacil lus..mycorrhizae to name a few ..the hygrozyme is pricey but worth it in the long run as a little goes a long way..i have noticed better cloning succsess when used as a pre soak for my rw cubes and rapid root development in organic and hydro applications.. it is especially helpfull in recirculating systems with organic matter in them...

take care
greenfriend

[Dr. D]

i have just started using Canna zym which im using on my organic soil, chem soil, and coco grows and i will use it with my bubbler wen i do another round. i havent noticed any difference yet but its only been applied once.My friend uses it in his flood and drain bucket system and between each grow he doesnt even empty the hydroton balls from the buckets he just puts the next lot of clones in, from wot iv seen with his system it completely breaks down the old root mass and beleive me the root mass is solid roots around the hydroton balls due to the AN voodoo juice that he uses "it does exactly wot it says on the tin" :biglaugh: .....from wot iv heard Nitrozyme is good too i would have gone for it myself but they had none and i settled for the canna zym....peace

[Guest]

I will second GreenFriend's advice especially when cloning. I lost a whole rack of Blueberry clones to rot, but the second time around with HydroGuard I got a 100% success rate. I do not use hygrozyme myself, but HydroGuard from Botanicare has done wonders for my root systems. I have never had any issues with root rot while using HydroGuard. As price goes it is less expensive than hygrozyme. Either or will serve there purposes just fine.

[Guest]

From a post on page 1:

Hi,
i would suggest to this person to check out BigTokes BioBucket thread-beneficial bacteria...(organic-right?) according to BigToke, its very hassle -free, and it "buffers" the Ph.
or try SubCulture by GH(Mycorhizzae)... sounds like a solution both ways...

Hello Sleepy, bio-buckets are a way of promoting healthy bacteria growth in DWC instead of frequent reservoir changes and sterilization. The system in and of itself is not organic, I use chemical nutes. However, organic nutrients could also be used. As to mycorhizzae subcultures, if I am not mistaken, they are not nutrients at all but rather fungi that colonize roots in a symbiotic relationship and provide for better disease resistance and better nutrient transfer. This should not be used in place of nutrients, but rather as a supplement. Sterilizing your nutrient solution with H2O2 will reduce or kill bacteria (and possibly mycorhizzal fungi as well, not sure though, I've never used it).

[Guest]

Correct ntstephenson. They are not nutrients. Here is a rather nice cut and paste from Botanicare's HydroGuard. I swear by the stuff. Bio Buckets done correctly work great but I still have had better results with 7 days of feed and 4 days of flush throughout the entire cycle. On the 4 days of flush, Hydroguard is present.

HYDROGUARD™ is a bio-fungicide water treatment that helps suppress and resist damping off diseases. HYDROGUARD ™ is an all-natural biological stimulant that assists in the management of disease cycles. Unlike the use of fungicides alone, the use of HYDROGUARD ™ breaks the chronic disease cycle while leaving no toxic residues. HYDROGUARD ™ is also useful throughout a plants life in hydrogardens such as NFT or Aeroponics. HYDROGUARD ™ is a phenomenal product which will strengthen your clones ’roots and offer your new plants the best chance of survival when transplanted. HYDROGUARD™ product composition: Bacillus subtilis, Paenibacillus polymxa, Bacillus circulans, and Bacillus amyloliquefaciens. The guaranteed analysis is:CFU/Gram 1.7E x10 6 . A free sample of HYDROGUARD ™ is now available in American Agritech’s Clone and Aero Machines.

[Guest]

Hello bundeslinga. I am afraid I mat be about to swallow my foot, but it's never stopped me before-

Quote: HYDROGUARD™ is a bio-fungicide water treatment that helps suppress and resist damping off diseases.

I have not looked into Hydroguard, nor used it, but if I read your description correctly, Hydroguard is yet another thing completely different from either nutrients or GH's Subculture. Bio-fungicide means it contains living organsim that kill fungi (as opposed to chemical fungal control), in this case those that cause damp off.

http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/subculture.html
SubCulture is a revolutionary blend of fifty-two-soil microorganisms that will increase vitality and yield in all plants. Whether in soil or hydroponics, the proprietary mixed blend of bacteria, actinomycetes and trichoderma fungi colonize in the root zone and media to form a symbiotic relationship with the plant. Plant root mass will increase, as well as nutrient absorption, creating bigger healthier plants. Microbiological root diseases will be supplanted by the colonized beneficial microbes; as the beneficial organisms out-compete the pathogenic organisms.

It seems we are running into a common problem, there are hundreds of special little additives on the market that seem to end up as a cash dump for growers that may not know exactly what they are buying.

The fact of the matter is, bacteria and fungal spores are airborne. If you pull in fresh air from the outside of your grow room, these air already in your grow. If you don't run H2O2 in your nutrient solution, they are alive in your nutrient solution. If you are growing in healthy soil, they are alive in your soil. If you change nutrient solutions periodically, say more than once a month, the population count probably isn't as high as it should be and you may benefit from the addition of these biological subcultures. BUT, if you run H2O2 in your nutes or pour it into the soil, you are annihilating the bacteria you just put in. Everyone's seen a small pond with inadequate water flow or a little branch of a creek that is stagnate. The water smells, has algae growing in it, just overall looks like crap. If you notice this in your reservoir, it's time to dump. Anaerobic conditions have allowed unwanted bacteria to colonize your nutrient solution and no addition of subculture alone will help. Subcultures are preventative and do not fix inherent problems with your setup.

[Harry Gypsna]

well, i know they aint organic, but myself, and some others that i know of do quite well with vita-link.... but as i say, not all prganic, as in, they are from organic ingredients, but some things ...u know, and then some of the products, like Bio-pak( bacteria) and bio-plus are organic. On the up and up too apparently. Or so I wa told by ye another growshop, lol.....man, Im travelling all over going to these growshops,. .
Dr D ,mentined them already I think, the new canna ones that are just out. bio-canna.

i have used the bio pak in my res twice now, and wow is all I can say about how muc the roots have exloded...i have been checking since using the stuff.
hope your friend works it out

[Guest]

Sensi Zym is a super concentrate of over 80 different enzymes, each having specific functions that enhance plant and root growth (Our competitors use only a small amount of enzymes, 12 or less). Enzymes can do in seconds & minutes, what would take normal plant functions days and weeks to accomplish.

Sensi Zym breaks down dead root mass, starches, carbohydrates and nutrients which accelerate plant growth as well as assist beneficial Bacteria growth. Sensi Zym enzymes help to catalyze water and assist the transfer of water elements to specific sites. Other enzymes speed up the regulatory process within the plant, and still other enzymes help in cell replication.

Advanced Nutrients conducted extensive research to develop an enzyme product that has a stable shelf life (18 months). We analyzed all our competitors products and found that several had totally inactive enzymes due to their very short shelf life. Enzymes are measured in units of activity - Sensi Zym has the highest units of activity, in fact, three times as much as our nearest competitor. All the competitors enzyme products are made for breaking down of dead root material. Sensi Zym does this as well but also provides enzymes that are a catalyst for total plant and root development.

http://www.advancednutrients.com/new2/homeframe.html

AN hydro products have a self adjusting pH to them

http://www.urbangrower.com/

Watch Vol.#2 = Lances garden

[Growdoc]

Benefical pond bacteria is used world wide to keep the ph stable in pond life...

This is a must for any Organic system soil or hydro...

it is cheap as fuck and a company called VELDA makes it, dutch style... check it out

[Harry Gypsna]

Y am i geting Email notifications of replys and then the bloody replys arent there???
anyway, i got a notification of Master vaper saying about GH owning bio Bizz,
they dont actually own Bio-Bizz, they just bought the Us distribution rights.....robbed Fertisource would be a better way off describing it actually ,lol after they opened the Us market up for em, then they snatch it off em, wankers. hehehe

[PFCruz]

I use Hygrozyme. I mentioned to my hydro store person that the smell made me think of a good beer. He said that it was an alcohol making by-product. The makers take sherry casks after the sherry is aged and drained they scape the inside of the casks to make the Hygrozyme . The stuff is great on the roots . Better roots = Better plants ?

[Dr. D]

i have to correct myself on Canna organic nutes bein for hydro...they are for soil based mixs only..i found this out the other day wen i went to my hydro shop...sorry bout the mis-information :canabis:

[Sleepy]

From a post on page 1:



Hello Sleepy, bio-buckets are a way of promoting healthy bacteria growth in DWC instead of frequent reservoir changes and sterilization. The system in and of itself is not organic, I use chemical nutes. However, organic nutrients could also be used. As to mycorhizzae subcultures, if I am not mistaken, they are not nutrients at all but rather fungi that colonize roots in a symbiotic relationship and provide for better disease resistance and better nutrient transfer. This should not be used in place of nutrients, but rather as a supplement. Sterilizing your nutrient solution with H2O2 will reduce or kill bacteria (and possibly mycorhizzal fungi as well, not sure though, I've never used it).

sorry if i was mistaken. i will go sit in the corner now...(and vape)

[Guest]

bump

[deadheadohio]

I have experimented with different things I tried a water soluble mycorrizhae and tried on a few plants and they were quicker growing and produced more I did not buy the hydrozyme when I bought the mycorizhae because it is 40 bucks for a small bottle but the owner of my local hydro shop told me to use them both and I told him that I didn't think it would be worth it so he gave me about a third of a liter for free so I gave a few plants hydrozime with mycorrizhae and did a few with just hydrozime and the 3 plants with hydrozime and mycorizhae were my biggest yielders and the root sytem of your plants will be very thick and full when you use one of the 2 products alone or if you use them both together I felt the need to use bigger containers after using these products because the roots are way more massive than they used to be the water soluble mycorrizhae is supposed to be used twice during the life cycle of the plants at the beginning[new clones just starting to veg or seedlings] and once again half way through the plants life cycle the hydrozime is safe to use with every watering 2 tea spoons per gallon dont worry about the price of these products they are well worth it compare plants side by side if you dont believe me and you will see

[zeppelindood]

did anybody ever win this contest?

[Guest]

I was wondering that my self zepp.. i think gypsy forgot us...

take care
greenfriend

[Growdoc]

what contest???

[zeppelindood]

:wave: Hi Doc....

.....question: how could you help this person?....let's hear it....

*the grower with the right/best solution will win a pack of Deep Chunk seeds by Tom Hill..

[Growdoc]

:wave: Hi Doc....


HAHAHA thanks zeppelindood... i must be stoned :yoinks:

Growdoc

[zeppelindood]

that's a good thing... :kos:

[Growdoc]

that's a good thing... :kos:

OH yeah!!!
:bongsmi:
:bongsmi:
:bongsmi:
Growdoc

[Guest]

Pure Blend Pro, Cal Mag, Hydroguard, Ro water. No worries.

[sunnyside]

wonder if those deep chunk's ever found a home?

[sunnyside]

guess not...

[tricky]

lmao