More Mr. Slim Questions ???

[FlowerFarmer]

BUMP.

Above post edited with change of questions/new questions.

Everything I need except the manifold gauges are on their way.
What I'm really needing to know is if spending for the digital micro vacuum gauge eliminates the need for the typical analog gauges pictured above.
Does the micron gauge tie in-line with the above manifold gauges or replace it all together.

Any HVAC or those who've done their own split install around?


Thanks

 

[Guest 18340]

You need the manifold gauge set AND the micron gauge.
If you're not to confident in making your own flares then take the line set to a pro and have them reflare it. He should only charge you a few $$$.
Yes, you will know if the flares are leaking before you release the r410 by watching the micron gauge. Once you shut the pump off keep an eye on the gauge. It will rise a little, which is normal, but if it goes up past 1000 microns (assuming you pulled down to 500 microns) then you have a leak.
99.9% of the leaks are at the flares.
Here's the way I do it...
Once I vacuumed and verified that it is holding a vacuum within spec (Ill watch the gauges for at least 30 minutes)I'll slightly crack open the Liquid side service valve (the smaller line) for 3 seconds to fill the line sets with freon. After 3 seconds I shut the valve and spray soapy water on the flares and look for bubbles. If no bubbles are present then I know I'm 100% leak free.
Now disconnect the manifold gauge set while the line is till pressurized, tighten down the cap. Open the liquid side all the way (you hear the freon wooosh into the line set) then open the gas side. The install manual will clearly tell you how to set it to emergency operation so that the unit does a self test to make sure all systems are go.
Easy peasy!!!

 

[Guest 18340]

Oh, the micron gauge ties into the manifold gauge. Look at the vid I linked and you'll see how it's hooked up.

 

[watts]

would it be better to get two 2 ton single zone mr slims or one 4 ton york affinity?

 

[Guest 18340]

would it be better to get two 2 ton single zone mr slims or one 4 ton york affinity?

For shear cooling power I would get the York...

 

[joesilver]

For shear cooling power I would get the York...

Any thoughts on thermoplus? Been looking into those.

 

[Guest 18340]

Sorry, I know nothing about a Thermoplus.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Sorry for killing ya with the questions..

I got a 2 stage vac pump (3cfm) from harbor freight...and about to order some yellow jacket (49967) 410a gauges w/ hoses. I might try to do without the digital micron gauge..pretty pricey and cant seem to find any that have good reviews. Any decent ones around $150-200?

The pump doesn't have any type of ball-valve on it.. just a on/off power switch. It does seem to keep suction on my finger even after I turn off the switch though.

Is this all I need or will I need some sort of ball valve or shut offs to prevent air sucking back into line-set? Some of the top end vac pumps had small valves built into them it looked like.

Any other little odds n ends I might need?

I've got the following:

Outdoor Unit
Indoor Unit
25' Line Set
Control Wire
Drain Hose
Wall Bracket (will need to source hardware, etc to mount)
20a 240v breaker w/ romex to disconnect w/ #10g electrical whip to split unit.

2 Stage Vac Pump 3cfm w/ fresh oil
Yellow Jacket 410a Gauge Set w/ Hoses

I've got normal tools like crescent wrenches and screw drivers..drill/holesaw... I've got some allen wrenches.. do the slims come with the hex wrench for the service port? Any other special tools needed for the hvac part of the install.

*here is to hoping my line-set pre-flairs are good.


thanks

 

[Guest 18340]

Sorry for killing ya with the questions..

I got a 2 stage vac pump (3cfm) from harbor freight...and about to order some yellow jacket (49967) 410a gauges w/ hoses. I might try to do without the digital micron gauge..pretty pricey and cant seem to find any that have good reviews. Any decent ones around $150-200?
Supco VG64 is about the only gauge in that price range. I have one. It works OK, just OK. But enough for our purpose.

The pump doesn't have any type of ball-valve on it.. just a on/off power switch. It does seem to keep suction on my finger even after I turn off the switch though.
OK, the pump doesn't have a blank off valve. So you'll need to buy a shut off valve that you can screw on between the pump and the hose connected to it. Like this one;
http://fierychill.com/jb-industries...62-1-4-charging-and-gauge-tube-shut-off-valve
Once you've reach your desired vacuum you shut that vale first, then shut the pump off. Leave the valve closed and watch your gauges for movement. If you use a micron gauge then you simple watch the numbers climb. If you use only the manifold gauges then watch the low side gauge. You don't want it to move at all from the -30hg. If it moves then you have a leak.
Is this all I need or will I need some sort of ball valve or shut offs to prevent air sucking back into line-set? Some of the top end vac pumps had small valves built into them it looked like.

Any other little odds n ends I might need?

I've got the following:

Outdoor Unit
Indoor Unit
25' Line Set
Control Wire
Drain Hose
Wall Bracket (will need to source hardware, etc to mount)
20a 240v breaker w/ romex to disconnect w/ #10g electrical whip to split unit.

2 Stage Vac Pump 3cfm w/ fresh oil
Yellow Jacket 410a Gauge Set w/ Hoses

I've got normal tools like crescent wrenches and screw drivers..drill/holesaw... I've got some allen wrenches.. do the slims come with the hex wrench for the service port? Any other special tools needed for the hvac part of the install.

*here is to hoping my line-set pre-flairs are good.
Looks like you have everything needed. Yes, the Mitsu uses allen wrenches for the service port valves.
If you ordered the wall mounting brackets from goductless then it comes with all the hardware. I bought mine from them
*Lets hope the line set flares are good. I will say this, and you're not gonna like it but, I've ordered 3 different linesets from two diff companies and they ALL leaked at the flares that connect to the outside unit. So check them good. They must be PERFECT!*

thanks

FlowerFarmer, no need to apologize for asking questions bro. I'm glad to help anyone in anyway I can

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Appreciate the responses.. I think I'm good to go.

I got the lineset today (from another company as goductless was out).

The flairs look good..no burrs.. seems perfectly round, etc... but then again I dont know what I'm exactly looking for. They appear to be in good condition...crossing my fingers. The caps to keep debris out of the ends were laying in the bottom of the box, but everything looks clean and free of debris.

I don't have any torque wrenches, but they don't seem to be too pricey. I'll likely pick some up to ensure I don't over tighten... Do you think they are necessary or do you just snug nut up good? The instructions just say a bit of refrigerant oil (J) (included) on the threads.. One video I watched stated he used some type of silicone? joint sealer..others suggested NOT to use anything special for risk of contamination in the line set.

I don't need to do anything too elaborate with the line set. My indoor unit will be just barely above my outdoor unit. I'll likely just come up my foundation from outdoor unit.. through foundation rim joist...and over to my indoor unit on wall (top of basement wall)...might need to coil a bit extra.. or maybe run down the length of my room and wide U turn back to my indoor unit if that is more ideal then coiling. My house is on a hill so the outdoor unit will likely be a few Ft below the indoor unit. Not too many bends really.. Do you recommend a pipe bender or anything or do I just carefully make my bends with muscle power?

Another video I saw mentioned a trap (loop in line set) before connecting the outdoor unit. Lots of other install videos just come down and make the connection. Is there anything I should know in regards to traps in the line set or similar? Don't think instructions said anything about it.

Much appreciated... many HVAC folks are unwilling to explain anything. I understand they are protecting their trade so to speak and that this stuff can be dangerous to both oneself, the equipment, and the environment, but I'm confident that I can such an install such as this with the proper tools and knowledge beforehand.

 

[Hrpuffnkush]

Its easy to install i did a 2ton mr slim myself no special tools needed besides the 3" drill bit .. connect lineset and open valves , away she go's
"ie" door handle drill bit works perfect, if your line set is less than 12ft or somethin like that you have to have it bled , if your line set is longer than you need to add freon..
Line set bends very easy no bender needed , it's a copper line cover'd with foam for protection

since the unit was located in other room i called ac guy to add freon , he had no idea
i have my condenser in garage super quiet and stealth ,
i kept condenser on wood pallet it cam from for foundation for easy removal if needed

best Grow item ive bought so far, that and the PowerBox

 

[Guest 18340]

Appreciate the responses.. I think I'm good to go.

I got the lineset today (from another company as goductless was out).

The flairs look good..no burrs.. seems perfectly round, etc... but then again I dont know what I'm exactly looking for. They appear to be in good condition...crossing my fingers. The caps to keep debris out of the ends were laying in the bottom of the box, but everything looks clean and free of debris.
As long as the inside of the flare looks shiny, has an even width and is smooth then you should be good to go.

I don't have any torque wrenches, but they don't seem to be too pricey. I'll likely pick some up to ensure I don't over tighten... Do you think they are necessary or do you just snug nut up good? The instructions just say a bit of refrigerant oil (J) (included) on the threads.. One video I watched stated he used some type of silicone? joint sealer..others suggested NOT to use anything special for risk of contamination in the line set.
If you can afford a torque wrench then that is the better option. It's hard to describe how 40 ft/lbs of torque feel but it's pretty tight.
Yes, use some refrigerant oil on the threads.
I don't need to do anything too elaborate with the line set. My indoor unit will be just barely above my outdoor unit. I'll likely just come up my foundation from outdoor unit.. through foundation rim joist...and over to my indoor unit on wall (top of basement wall)...might need to coil a bit extra.. or maybe run down the length of my room and wide U turn back to my indoor unit if that is more ideal then coiling. My house is on a hill so the outdoor unit will likely be a few Ft below the indoor unit. Not too many bends really.. Do you recommend a pipe bender or anything or do I just carefully make my bends with muscle power?
Careful muscling is all that's needed. Wide gradual bends!

Another video I saw mentioned a trap (loop in line set) before connecting the outdoor unit. Lots of other install videos just come down and make the connection. Is there anything I should know in regards to traps in the line set or similar? Don't think instructions said anything about it.
If you can, do make a "trap" close to the compressor. It'll eat up some of your extra line set. But, most installs I've seen theirs no trap at all...

Much appreciated... many HVAC folks are unwilling to explain anything. I understand they are protecting their trade so to speak and that this stuff can be dangerous to both oneself, the equipment, and the environment, but I'm confident that I can such an install such as this with the proper tools and knowledge beforehand.

Good luck and do let us know how the install went

 

[FlowerFarmer]

bump..got a few more questions.

I've got the 36 BTU unit with heat pump and have a hard time deciphering the instructions. - Mitsubishi MSZD36NA / MUZD36NA

When running the power supply from panel to outside disconnect what size does the breaker and line need to be. I was under the impression that it would be a 30a double pole as that is what my home AC is..

However the instructions are confusing me.

The technical specs says : Max Breaker Size - 20 Amp
The install instructions says: Max Fuse Size - 25a (time delay)
The install instructions also says: Min. Circuit Ampacity (A) 21
The instructions also say AWG12

So.. I'm thinking 20a breaker in panel using 12/2 romex to disconnect/ and then my electrical whip to unit.

The fact that it's taking about 25a fuses confuses me. Do they mean in the disconnect?
And how is it going to run on 20a breaker with 12 guage line if it's got a minimum ampacity of 21?


Anyone know?

Here is the instructions for anyone whom might want to take a look.
http://www.goductless.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/pdf/mitsu/msz_single_zone/mszd36_install.pdf

Technical Specifications
------------------------------------
Cooling Capacity 33,200 BTU
Heating Capacity (BTU) 36,000 BTU
HSPF 11.3
Efficiency 16 Seer
Voltage 208/230 1 Phase
Line Set Size 3/8" & 5/8"
Max Breaker Size 20 Amp
Maximum Line Set Size / Maximum Rise 100ft / 50ft

␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣␣
MODEL
MSY-D30NA
MSY-D36NA
MSZ-D30NA
MSZ-D36NA
INDOOR UNIT
Power supply (V, PHASE, Hz)
208/230, 1, 60
Min. Circuit Ampacity (A)
1.0
Fan motor (F.L.A.) (A)
0.76
OUTDOOR UNIT
Power supply (V, PHASE, Hz)
208/230, 1, 60
Max. Fuse size (time delay)
(A)
25
Min. Circuit Ampacity (A)
21
Fan motor (F.L.A.) (A)
0.93
Compressor
(R.L.A) (A)
16
(L.R.A) (A)
20
Control voltage
Indoor unit - Remote controller: (Wireless) Indoor unit - Outdoor unit: DC12-24 V (Polar)

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Also.. another question.

I'm exiting my indoor unit (bottom right) where the lines attach. The unit's liquid line is 90 degree bent to run alongside the back of the unit. The instructions say to cut and braze/flair if exiting at the bottom. I didn't want to do this so I simply bent it down to exit at the bottom. I did this carefully and don't believe it kinked or anything. This is 3/8" copper inside of some "slinky" looking metal material (strain relief?)..and then wrapped in foam insulation.

Hopefully I'm all good there. Is this fine so long as I didn't damage the 3/8" liquid line?

 

[Guest 18340]

The breaker and fuse are two different things.
A 20 amps breaker goes in the panel, the 25amp time delay fuse goes into the service disconnect box outside.
The instructions are correct and so are you
Bending the line set is not a problem unless doing so cracks or kinks it.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Thanks evlme2, you've been a huge help.

I'm pretty much ready to attach my line sets and vacuum the system.
The instructions say that I need to put a thin layer of refrigerant oil on the pipe seat surface before making the connection.

Where do I purchase this? Will a auto zone/parts store carry this?
Really nervous tightening the nuts. I think I'm going to see if any place local as an open ended torque wrench to ensure I don't over tighten/under tighten.


And to ensure I'm understanding this correctly..after everything is connected I connect my vacuum guages / pump to the service port while keeping both the stop valves (liquid and gas closed). Pull a vacuum and and switch off my pump..see if it holds for a while.

Then I disconnect the vac gauge from the service port "quickly" ...and I open both the stop valves on the liquid and gas lines?

How does air not re-enter the lines while I disconnect the gauge from the service port?
When opening the stop valves and allowing refrigerant into the system does this need done in a certain order (liquid before gas or gas before liquid)?

What is this talk in the instructions of a control valve attaching to the service port in front of my vac line? I don't believe I have anything like that.

 

[Guest 18340]

Not sure if auto parts stores carry that oil but if not you can get it off ebay easily.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=refrigerant+oil&_nkwusc=reridgerant+oil&_rdc=1
Does your vacuum pump have a blank off valve?

 

[FlowerFarmer]

It doesn't have one built in but I did purchase one similar to what you had previously recommended.

OK, the pump doesn't have a blank off valve. So you'll need to buy a shut off valve that you can screw on between the pump and the hose connected to it. Like this one;
http://fierychill.com/jb-industries/...shut-off-valve

 

[cody2white]

Very good info in here

 

[Guest 18340]

It doesn't have one built in but I did purchase one similar to what you had previously recommended.

OK then, after you're done pulling a vacuum you shut the valve off THEN shut off the pump, and watch your gauge for any drift. If it holds the vacuum then you crack open the gas side valve for a few seconds, then quickly shut it, to pressurize the line set. Then spray soapy water on ALL the flare connections and check for leaks. If all is good THEN disconnect from the service valve. Since it's pressurized with r410 it while blow out, not suck in air. WATCH YOUR FINGERS, R410 IS EXTREMELY COLD!!!!!!
Now you can fully open the gas and liquid valves and start it up.
Mind you, that is the exact procedure I used and it has worked without fail every time. I'm sure a certified hvac tech would frown on our methods but hey, the method works.