Right on....these plants will be in a situation where they can / will be checked on and cared for. Not daily mind you, but they can be monitored with out too much difficulty.
dank.Frank
dank.Frank
Another yield thread....
- Thread starter dank.frank
- Start date
okay...this thread has NOT been ditched...
Recently, the biggest issue is trying to figure out HOW MUCH nutrients I need to use to amend the soil.
Essentially, what I have done, is I have dug out a 10' x 6' x 18" (90 cu ft.) bed for what will just simply become known as "Plot A". I have re-filled the hole partially with a fully organic compost that I know to be quite high in nitrogen...and really don't think I will need to amend the soil with ANY additional N.
I honestly can't seem to decide on how MUCH high P guano to add to the soil and how much kelp meal to add. If I go by the standard application rate given in the organic soil stickies...well, for example:
90 cu ft = nearly 580g of medium
So kelp meal @ 1/2c per cubic foot...well, that is 45c total...so...wow...a bit much? How many pounds of kelp meal is that....lol.
With high P guano @ 1/2 per GALLON....lol...we are talking 290c total...hahahaha...How many pounds of guano is that....??!!!
When I read other products, such as Budswell, the company addresses the fact it should be applied a the rate of 1# per 20 square ft...
Which I know is different type of application being done.
So what then is the basis for amending soil outdoors? After all, I want superior outdoor this year...my best ever...I'd be upset if I failed to feed it proper or likewise burn it to a crisp in a soil that is way to hot...
Also...remind me again...blood and bone outdoors = a bad idea. Animals dig it up. Will they dig an area with only BONE added without any blood???
Will be adding about 30 cu ft. of peat to the hole and about 15 cu ft. of perlite as well...
dank.Frank
Recently, the biggest issue is trying to figure out HOW MUCH nutrients I need to use to amend the soil.
Essentially, what I have done, is I have dug out a 10' x 6' x 18" (90 cu ft.) bed for what will just simply become known as "Plot A". I have re-filled the hole partially with a fully organic compost that I know to be quite high in nitrogen...and really don't think I will need to amend the soil with ANY additional N.
I honestly can't seem to decide on how MUCH high P guano to add to the soil and how much kelp meal to add. If I go by the standard application rate given in the organic soil stickies...well, for example:
90 cu ft = nearly 580g of medium
So kelp meal @ 1/2c per cubic foot...well, that is 45c total...so...wow...a bit much? How many pounds of kelp meal is that....lol.
With high P guano @ 1/2 per GALLON....lol...we are talking 290c total...hahahaha...How many pounds of guano is that....??!!!
When I read other products, such as Budswell, the company addresses the fact it should be applied a the rate of 1# per 20 square ft...
Which I know is different type of application being done.
So what then is the basis for amending soil outdoors? After all, I want superior outdoor this year...my best ever...I'd be upset if I failed to feed it proper or likewise burn it to a crisp in a soil that is way to hot...
Also...remind me again...blood and bone outdoors = a bad idea. Animals dig it up. Will they dig an area with only BONE added without any blood???
Will be adding about 30 cu ft. of peat to the hole and about 15 cu ft. of perlite as well...
dank.Frank
Hey Dankfrank
The basis for amending soil = npk pellets(organic) , lime , blood and bone meal.
I have never had an animal dig up plants cuz i used bone/bloodmeal but then again we have different wildlife here.
So for example for 3 gallons of soil(12 liters) i use 1/4 gallon of compost , 8 spoons of npk pellets(6-4-11) , 2 spoons of bone meal 1 spoon of blood meal., 4 spoons of lime
The soil needs to cook for at least 2 weeks.
Another tip is , make the top layer a weaker mix , so no blood or bone meal only 2 spoons of npk pellets and 4 spoons of lime and half the amount of compost.
After that i would every 2 months topdress the soil with dry ferts and then covering the ferts with potting soil so those dry ferts can cook and begin working faster.
This should pretty much make for an automatic high yielding grow except the water which you still have to add yourself
ehrm i dunno if i left out anything....
The basis for amending soil = npk pellets(organic) , lime , blood and bone meal.
I have never had an animal dig up plants cuz i used bone/bloodmeal but then again we have different wildlife here.
So for example for 3 gallons of soil(12 liters) i use 1/4 gallon of compost , 8 spoons of npk pellets(6-4-11) , 2 spoons of bone meal 1 spoon of blood meal., 4 spoons of lime
The soil needs to cook for at least 2 weeks.
Another tip is , make the top layer a weaker mix , so no blood or bone meal only 2 spoons of npk pellets and 4 spoons of lime and half the amount of compost.
After that i would every 2 months topdress the soil with dry ferts and then covering the ferts with potting soil so those dry ferts can cook and begin working faster.
This should pretty much make for an automatic high yielding grow except the water which you still have to add yourself
ehrm i dunno if i left out anything....
Hi dank.Frank,
From what I have seen here and grown in and outdoors, I would recommend not topping them at all, grow up to 3 or 4 feet tall, 6 even for a sativa, then train the whole lot sideways, wait a few days for it to grow out into 8, 12, or 20 heads, then keep these spread apart, not down to horizontally like you do to train them, just spread out apart to make max advantage of the available light. Near flower time, you can train her horizontally again, spreading all your heads out into a clock or octopus shape maximising the square meterage each plant is taking up. This keeps the plant nice and low, you get lots of top buds not one solo cola that is often a rot risk, let alone wind, police and thieves....
For your hole question, I have been looking at Tom Hill and Butte's work, raised beds seem to go rather well
on top of a nice dug hole it could be better still. Good luck. 
+Vibes
Member
hello od frank...
i'm trying for 15 large plants also. i will be mixing in about 25 gallons of peat/compost/perlite/ewc into my 50 gallon holes in the ground.... the other 25 gal is the native loam
for my plants which will be about 12" seed/clone plants by mid may, i have 20# of mexican and peruvian seabird guano. i will mix some into the soil and top dress at the beginning of june... hopefully that will keep the microbes and plants happy until flower. i also use chicken poo, but its only in the initial mix. as for any flowering guanos... i haven't thought that far ahead
good luck with your big girls
++
i'm trying for 15 large plants also. i will be mixing in about 25 gallons of peat/compost/perlite/ewc into my 50 gallon holes in the ground.... the other 25 gal is the native loam
for my plants which will be about 12" seed/clone plants by mid may, i have 20# of mexican and peruvian seabird guano. i will mix some into the soil and top dress at the beginning of june... hopefully that will keep the microbes and plants happy until flower. i also use chicken poo, but its only in the initial mix. as for any flowering guanos... i haven't thought that far ahead
good luck with your big girls
++
Layedback530
Member
How many cubic feet of soil fill up a 50 gallon smart pot? and do you guys think that 50 gal's will be enough for 3 foot plants placed outdoor mid-may growing until end of season no light dep?
Layedback530
Member
Hey nomad, you say you received 1/2lb'rs in your black box, but what did your outdoor (no box) ladies come out to be last year?
Well....A simply cubic ft measurement is 6.43g per cubic ft. So...basically a little under 8 cu. ft. I think one of the biggest factors you have to consider is really how much care you are able to give them and how frequently. If you can water daily and see the plants daily without consequence....you can get HUGE yields in much smaller amounts of medium.
I personally, have made this a BED style of grow vs. holes for this plot to test the difference...keeping in mind, this plot is being filled with all the same plant.
dank.Frank
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Update...
Update...
Well, for those keeping track of such things...
The plot pictured is 10' x 6' x 18" deep. That is essentially 90 cu ft. or about 580 gallons. The entire hole was dug out and the natural earth was replace entirely with a growing medium.
For the hole:
All organic high N compost
28 cu. ft. of peat moss
14 cu. ft. of perlite
2.2# Indonesian bat guano
3# organic steamed bone meal
1.5# Kelp Meal
4# dolomite lime
1# dichotomous earth
Fully expecting to top feed around a # of Budswell at some point near the first part of August....
The plot will be soaked with around 30g of liquid karma solution and then we'll get some plants in there after a couple of weeks....
dank.Frank
Update...
Well, for those keeping track of such things...
The plot pictured is 10' x 6' x 18" deep. That is essentially 90 cu ft. or about 580 gallons. The entire hole was dug out and the natural earth was replace entirely with a growing medium.
For the hole:
All organic high N compost
28 cu. ft. of peat moss
14 cu. ft. of perlite
2.2# Indonesian bat guano
3# organic steamed bone meal
1.5# Kelp Meal
4# dolomite lime
1# dichotomous earth
Fully expecting to top feed around a # of Budswell at some point near the first part of August....
The plot will be soaked with around 30g of liquid karma solution and then we'll get some plants in there after a couple of weeks....
dank.Frank
I should also at this time make mention of ALL the genetics that are managing to find their way into the great outdoors. Initially, everything going outside was to be from clones....but life doesn't always work as planned. So that has caused me to fill the gaps by sprouting a few extra seeds from the reserves. These will veg indoors for a bit and make it a bit after all the rest...
Entire List:
1. Zoolander's Chem D x Northern Lights
2. NuggetShiner's Golden Cindy
3. (cut) Arcata Trainwreck
4. OM Seeds BigAfghanDesire
5. FreeP's Pure Power Plant
6. Superbudz's NYCD x C99WW
7. Retardo Motabon's Bubba Kush x Grape Krush
AND HOPEFULLY!!!
8. Phillthy's Williams Wonder Ix
Most of these will have a couple of males in the mix that will need to be thinned out of the group. Normally, this is a concern, but thanks to a buddy (midwest_best) making a suggestion, I'm going to steal his idea...
As the plants grow outside, cuts will be taken, rooted and IMMEDIATELY placed into flowering. By the sexing of these cuts, we will be able cull any males far before they have a chance to become a nuisance in any way shape or form....hehehe!!
dank.Frank
Entire List:
1. Zoolander's Chem D x Northern Lights
2. NuggetShiner's Golden Cindy
3. (cut) Arcata Trainwreck
4. OM Seeds BigAfghanDesire
5. FreeP's Pure Power Plant
6. Superbudz's NYCD x C99WW
7. Retardo Motabon's Bubba Kush x Grape Krush
AND HOPEFULLY!!!
8. Phillthy's Williams Wonder Ix
Most of these will have a couple of males in the mix that will need to be thinned out of the group. Normally, this is a concern, but thanks to a buddy (midwest_best) making a suggestion, I'm going to steal his idea...
As the plants grow outside, cuts will be taken, rooted and IMMEDIATELY placed into flowering. By the sexing of these cuts, we will be able cull any males far before they have a chance to become a nuisance in any way shape or form....hehehe!!
dank.Frank
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Bulldog501
Member
too hve the fresh dug up soil better hidden from air spread some straw around on the surfaceWell, for those keeping track of such things...
The plot pictured is 10' x 6' x 18" deep. That is essentially 90 cu ft. or about 580 gallons. The entire hole was dug out and the natural earth was replace entirely with a growing medium.
For the hole:
All organic high N compost
28 cu. ft. of peat moss
14 cu. ft. of perlite
2.2# Indonesian bat guano
3# organic steamed bone meal
1.5# Kelp Meal
4# dolomite lime
1# dichotomous earth
Fully expecting to top feed around a # of Budswell at some point near the first part of August....
The plot will be soaked with around 30g of liquid karma solution and then we'll get some plants in there after a couple of weeks....
dank.Frank
getting in into the ground wont hurt either as it makes the soil more airy and when broken down it creates at lof of beneficial bacteria and fungi as well as micro nutrients
reson its good using straw as a soil cover is that it helps the soil maintain moisure and it doesnt contain weed seeds that would lter sprout as in if you used cut down surrounding weed to cover the fresh soil
have a good and rewarding season
looks good but wouldn't it be better to make seperate holes?
I mean plants get enormous outdoors and that small plot can only have one or two plants (if you plant between now and a month), maybe you should bend and train your plants towards the outside? , Especially the PPP will get freaking huge if you top and train it , it is a monster grower
they easily get 10 feet wide and 7 feet high
Anywho I'll be tagging along
I mean plants get enormous outdoors and that small plot can only have one or two plants (if you plant between now and a month), maybe you should bend and train your plants towards the outside? , Especially the PPP will get freaking huge if you top and train it , it is a monster grower
they easily get 10 feet wide and 7 feet high
Anywho I'll be tagging along
dank.frank: have a look at Roots Trinity as a sub for Liquid Karma. I started out last year with LK and moved to the Trinity... its a similar product but with some great added yummies like Yucca extract and Quillaja extract (both sources saponins- awesome for root health).
a single plant in that hole would be a true monster... at the very least I think you should plant late (that will give time for your soil mix to mellow out..at least 3 weeks) or your plants will completely overgrow the space you have provided for them and their performance will suffer.
a single plant in that hole would be a true monster... at the very least I think you should plant late (that will give time for your soil mix to mellow out..at least 3 weeks) or your plants will completely overgrow the space you have provided for them and their performance will suffer.
Right on nomadd...
The one plot picture is going to hold 12-15 plants....I think all things will be fine as long as I get all things out before June. They are vegging indoors, so it isn't such a big deal...
dank.Frank
The one plot picture is going to hold 12-15 plants....I think all things will be fine as long as I get all things out before June. They are vegging indoors, so it isn't such a big deal...
dank.Frank
I don't think you want to put 12-15 in that hole in early june. too crowded. especially if the veg big inside first. A plant vegged in a 5 gallon for a month and a half and put into my black box where it will veg for 2 weeks in a 65 gallon container before I begin to pull tarp. The plant will grow into the 65 nicely in 2 weeks... if I gave it 3 it would really explode... Each plant in that scenario should pull down a pound or more. Remember, they would be finishing in the July sun rather than the october sun so the quality of the buds would be much higher along with the yield.
If I were to leave them for the full season (8 more Weeks of Veg) in those 65's, they would become seriously rootbound. Dunno that you would get much more than the same pound out of em in the end.
what kind of yield are you after?
you could also be ready to pull tarp over the plot to force flowering sometime in early July when u realize that your 12-15 plants are outgrowing their plot.
remember... i don't have a ton of experience, so take whjat I say with a grain of salt. Question everything.
If I were to leave them for the full season (8 more Weeks of Veg) in those 65's, they would become seriously rootbound. Dunno that you would get much more than the same pound out of em in the end.
what kind of yield are you after?
you could also be ready to pull tarp over the plot to force flowering sometime in early July when u realize that your 12-15 plants are outgrowing their plot.
remember... i don't have a ton of experience, so take whjat I say with a grain of salt. Question everything.
F
feral
done by hand? if so dude I commend you BIG time!!!
Well, for those keeping track of such things...
The plot pictured is 10' x 6' x 18" deep. That is essentially 90 cu ft. or about 580 gallons. The entire hole was dug out and the natural earth was replace entirely with a growing medium.
For the hole:
All organic high N compost
28 cu. ft. of peat moss
14 cu. ft. of perlite
2.2# Indonesian bat guano
3# organic steamed bone meal
1.5# Kelp Meal
4# dolomite lime
1# dichotomous earth
Fully expecting to top feed around a # of Budswell at some point near the first part of August....
The plot will be soaked with around 30g of liquid karma solution and then we'll get some plants in there after a couple of weeks....
dank.Frank
THC123 - I know exactly what you mean as to how many plants to put in that plot. Initially, the plan was to have 2 sqft per plant. in this plot, that would be 15 plants. 4 plants would be about 120g per plant and roughly 15 sqft per plant, and I know they do MUCH larger than that in Cali, but I don't know that I'll be able to get my plants big enough to fill that space properly...I'd feel better running no less than 8 in that spot....
Others have any opinions on this???
Feral - I have always been a firm believer in the concept that those before us did FAR more things by hand and got us to where we are today. In such a thought, there is no reason why I shouldn't work in the same manner, if necessary, to create and ensure the success of my endeavors. It took a bit of time...but it got done. If you want the results you have to put in the time. Thanks for the appreciation!
nomaad - The plants will need a much longer flowering season and will not be fully finished until late September or the first part of November at the latest. I'll not be able to tarp them, and will have to let them flower naturally as they would with season. At my latitude, it would be very hard to get two full harvest each year without a greenhouse. At least for some one like me with very limited experience...I've had a good deal of concern about the numbers to put in that plot as well....although, these are only vegging in like 1/2g containers, so it isn't like they are big plants going out....
dank.Frank
Others have any opinions on this???
Feral - I have always been a firm believer in the concept that those before us did FAR more things by hand and got us to where we are today. In such a thought, there is no reason why I shouldn't work in the same manner, if necessary, to create and ensure the success of my endeavors. It took a bit of time...but it got done. If you want the results you have to put in the time. Thanks for the appreciation!
nomaad - The plants will need a much longer flowering season and will not be fully finished until late September or the first part of November at the latest. I'll not be able to tarp them, and will have to let them flower naturally as they would with season. At my latitude, it would be very hard to get two full harvest each year without a greenhouse. At least for some one like me with very limited experience...I've had a good deal of concern about the numbers to put in that plot as well....although, these are only vegging in like 1/2g containers, so it isn't like they are big plants going out....
dank.Frank
LOL man 4-6 plants will be MORE than enough literally this isn't indoor growing it's outdoor growing.
I would even go as far as saying 2-4 plants MAX on that surface and if you wanna put 8 be sure to bend them outwards from the beginning or it simply won't fit
If you have your soiled prepared right and you want to put em out before june AND you are pregrowing them , you can be sure to harvest a pound per plant minimal provided they have enough space on the sides.
If you are gonna plant them so close your yield will be lower and you risk losign much much more to mold and it is just a really bad idea , outdoors you get trees not small bushes
